2007 USNEWS rankings

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HMSNeuro said:
for the record, I don't go to HMS. In fact, I'm a sophomore at Dartmouth who's had a ton o' fun on these boards.
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You mean the trolling? well, whatever floats your boat, dude.
 
These Rankings don't mean much overall. I think most realize this. I mean c'mon, everyone knows BCM is at least in the top 5..... 😉
 
latinfridley said:
These Rankings don't mean much overall. I think most realize this. I mean c'mon, everyone knows BCM is at least in the top 5..... 😉
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Of course its top 5! right behind Pitt at #4 😎
 
latinfridley said:
These Rankings don't mean much overall. I think most realize this. I mean c'mon, everyone knows BCM is at least in the top 5..... 😉
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I'm not sure if Baylor deserves to be a top ten...It went up in rankings due to a major increase in NIH funding...It's reputation, measured by residency directors and medical school deans, is relatively low, more on par with a Northwestern, Case, and a Vanderbilt than it is with a Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF. If you take a look at the first two ratings criteria, peer assessment and residency directors assessment, Baylor is not given a very high rating.

Cornell at #15, really deserves to be in the top ten because it is a top ten school measured by peer and residency director assessment and is a top ten in selectivity (measured by MCAT and GPA). What brings Cornell down in the rankings is its NIH funding. This research activity measure, NIH funding, is understated at Cornell because the rankings do not take into account its affiliation with Memorial Sloan Kettering and the Rockefeller Insitute, two major research institutes closely affiliated with Cornell. If the reserach activity at these institutions were factored into Cornell's overall score, Cornell would definatley be in the top ten.

You have to check out the rankings and rankings methodology in the US News and World Report to check these out.
 
Stupid USNews put up the 2007 data early, and apparently forgot to inactivate my access (from the 2006 data), hence I get full free access. Excellent!!!

Overall, I'm seeing very little change in things (despite the "shakeups" in the top 10). Most top research schools got ~$20 million extra in NIH grants from last year, and otherwise things changed in tenths or hundredths of points. One of the "biggest" changes I can see is Columbia seems to have lost some faculty, lowering the faculty-student ratio from 3.7 to 2.8, but increasing NIH/faculty from $123.7K to $168.9K.
 
JustBreathe said:
Can anyone with access to premium content give me the row of numbers for WashU?
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Listed in order of the USNews info:
Washington University in St. Louis
4 78 4.6 4.4 3.85 12.3 9.9% $358.9 $239.1 2.5 $39,720 593
 
dajimmers said:
Listed in order of the USNews info:
Washington University in St. Louis
4 78 4.6 4.4 3.85 12.3 9.9% $358.9 $239.1 2.5 $39,720 593
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Thanks 😀
 
dajimmers said:
Listed in order of the USNews info:
Washington University in St. Louis
4 78 4.6 4.4 3.85 12.3 9.9% $358.9 $239.1 2.5 $39,720 593
Click to expand...

Can someone do that for the top 10
 
dajimmers said:
Stupid USNews put up the 2007 data early, and apparently forgot to inactivate my access (from the 2006 data), hence I get full free access. Excellent!!!

Overall, I'm seeing very little change in things (despite the "shakeups" in the top 10). Most top research schools got ~$20 million extra in NIH grants from last year, and otherwise things changed in tenths or hundredths of points. One of the "biggest" changes I can see is Columbia seems to have lost some faculty, lowering the faculty-student ratio from 3.7 to 2.8, but increasing NIH/faculty from $123.7K to $168.9K.
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Haha! Ditto! I'm not sure what good it does me to have this info now.... But haha!
 
Harvard University (MA)
1 100 4.8 4.7 3.76 11.7 5.2% $1,171.0 $155.7 10.2 $38,776 739

Johns Hopkins University (MD)
2 80 4.8 4.6 3.84 11.5 5.9% $475.4 $216.3 4.7 $35,965 464

University of Pennsylvania
3 79 4.6 4.3 3.79 11.6 4.8% $500.8 $244.7 3.3 $39,467 617

University of California-San Francisco
4 78 4.7 4.5 3.79 11.3 4.9% $422.9 $263.7 2.7 $34,573 600

Washington University in St. Louis
4 78 4.6 4.4 3.85 12.3 9.9% $358.9 $239.1 2.5 $39,720 593

Duke University (NC)
6 75 4.6 4.6 3.80 11.9 4.4% $330.8 * $195.2 * 4.2 $39,537 406

Stanford University (CA)
7 73 4.5 4.5 3.71 11.2 2.9% $244.5 * $332.2 * 1.5 $38,431 476

University of Washington
7 73 4.4 4.1 3.65 10.4 7.2% $538.8 $272.5 2.4 $34,697 810

Yale University (CT)
9 72 4.2 4.2 3.75 11.6 5.9% $300.7 $301.0 2.3 $37,655 441

Baylor College of Medicine (TX)
10 70 4.0 3.8 3.77 11.3 6.7% $454.2 $256.0 2.6 $23,683 678
 
I see the snobs and, how shall I put it (?), fastidisnobs, have come out of the woodwork. 🙄
 
THanks LucidSPlash!

Does USnews ever say anything about how they weigh each parameter in their calculation of the overall score.
 
HMSNeuro said:
actually, there are a number of surprises. baylor's raise to the top 10, wash u's decline, columbia's fall out of the top 10, yale's return to the glorious top 10...

rankings matter, period.
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yes, washu fell from #3 to tied for #4 with (gasp) ucsf, what a crappy school that is. washu must suck now, i'm not going there anymore.
 
dajimmers said:
Stupid USNews put up the 2007 data early, and apparently forgot to inactivate my access (from the 2006 data), hence I get full free access. Excellent!!!

Overall, I'm seeing very little change in things (despite the "shakeups" in the top 10). Most top research schools got ~$20 million extra in NIH grants from last year, and otherwise things changed in tenths or hundredths of points. One of the "biggest" changes I can see is Columbia seems to have lost some faculty, lowering the faculty-student ratio from 3.7 to 2.8, but increasing NIH/faculty from $123.7K to $168.9K.
Click to expand...

Yale also had something odd happen, because their total grant support went from 287.4 to 300.7, their student/faculty ratio went from 3.4 to 2.3 and their dollars/faculty from 190.1 to 301! Yale must have lost a ton of faculty to have such large changes in the student/faculty ratio and the dollars per faculty. Either that or things are being reported differently.
 
where do you guys get these rankings of how residency directors rate med schools? that would be helpful in choosing schools!
 
Cornell at #15, really deserves to be in the top ten because it is a top ten school measured by peer and residency director assessment and is a top ten in selectivity (measured by MCAT and GPA). What brings Cornell down in the rankings is its NIH funding. This research activity measure, NIH funding, is understated at Cornell because the rankings do not take into account its affiliation with Memorial Sloan Kettering and the Rockefeller Insitute, two major research institutes closely affiliated with Cornell. If the reserach activity at these institutions were factored into Cornell's overall score, Cornell would definatley be in the top ten.
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You only wish Cornell could claim MSK and Rockefeller funding as their own, considering that MSK & Rockefeller faculty have just about nothing to do with teaching Cornell students or funding or receiving funds from Weill.

I'd consider Columbia and Cornell's affiliation in a single health system (New York - Presbyterian) more close than Cornell and MSK, and especially Cornell and Rockefeller.
 
Doctor&Geek said:
You only wish Cornell could claim MSK and Rockefeller funding as their own, considering that MSK & Rockefeller faculty have just about nothing to do with teaching Cornell students or funding or receiving funds from Weill.

I'd consider Columbia and Cornell's affiliation in a single health system (New York - Presbyterian) more close than Cornell and MSK, and especially Cornell and Rockefeller.
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Yeah, it's more of a thing for the MD/PhD programs - institutions where they can rotate and/or do their thesis. But independent institutions should not count towards medical school ranking.

Similarly, the Harvard-MIT, Baylor-Rice, Pitt-Carnegie Mellon and various other tight collaborations don't count.

Were these collaborations taken into account, I think UCSD would definitely be a top ten school. Scripps, Burnham, Salk all have collaborations with UCSD, and as is well known, Burnham and Salk are premier institutions in biology and biochemistry research, and Scripps is an international powerhouse in (particularly organic) chemistry.
 
06applicant said:
THanks LucidSPlash!

Does USnews ever say anything about how they weigh each parameter in their calculation of the overall score.
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They do list their methodology on their website .
pnasty said:
where do you guys get these rankings of how residency directors rate med schools? that would be helpful in choosing schools!
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USNews says:
One survey dealt with research and was sent to a sample of residency program directors in fields outside primary care, including surgery, psychiatry, and radiology. The other survey involved primary care and was sent to residency directors in the fields of family practice, pediatrics, and internal medicine. Survey recipients were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a program to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 28 percent of those surveyed for research medical schools responded. Twenty-eight percent responded for primary-care.

Most people agree that these residency rankings aren't all that helpful, since only 28% of directors return the questionaire.
 
LucidSplash said:
Harvard University (MA)
1 100 4.8 4.7 3.76 11.7 5.2% $1,171.0 $155.7 10.2 $38,776 739

Johns Hopkins University (MD)
2 80 4.8 4.6 3.84 11.5 5.9% $475.4 $216.3 4.7 $35,965 464

University of Pennsylvania
3 79 4.6 4.3 3.79 11.6 4.8% $500.8 $244.7 3.3 $39,467 617

University of California-San Francisco
4 78 4.7 4.5 3.79 11.3 4.9% $422.9 $263.7 2.7 $34,573 600

Washington University in St. Louis
4 78 4.6 4.4 3.85 12.3 9.9% $358.9 $239.1 2.5 $39,720 593

Duke University (NC)
6 75 4.6 4.6 3.80 11.9 4.4% $330.8 * $195.2 * 4.2 $39,537 406

Stanford University (CA)
7 73 4.5 4.5 3.71 11.2 2.9% $244.5 * $332.2 * 1.5 $38,431 476

University of Washington
7 73 4.4 4.1 3.65 10.4 7.2% $538.8 $272.5 2.4 $34,697 810

Yale University (CT)
9 72 4.2 4.2 3.75 11.6 5.9% $300.7 $301.0 2.3 $37,655 441

Baylor College of Medicine (TX)
10 70 4.0 3.8 3.77 11.3 6.7% $454.2 $256.0 2.6 $23,683 678
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Can you do this for the Top 10 Primary Care? Thanks!
 
dajimmers said:
Most people agree that these residency rankings aren't all that helpful, since only 28% of directors return the questionaire.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and the fact that you probably have a different set of directors rating each school, also lending to some skewing.
 
I love US news rankings.

My undergrad is so obsessed with moving up in the rankings, it's not even funny. A professor of mine who used to be in administration told me that the low "peer ranking" score personally frustrated our old president.

The two things holding us down are research $$ and "fine arts" -- so what does ND do? Build a 100 million dollar arts facility, and start aggressively trying to steal research faculty from the big 10 by offering them immediate tenure, endowed chairs, and new lab facilites.


Why do schools care so much about a list that they all realize is bunk?


EDIT: And hey, it worked! We moved up out of our 2 year tie with Emory, and are now tied with Vandy!
 
mbadoc said:
I'm not sure if Baylor deserves to be a top ten...It went up in rankings due to a major increase in NIH funding...It's reputation, measured by residency directors and medical school deans, is relatively low, more on par with a Northwestern, Case, and a Vanderbilt than it is with a Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF. If you take a look at the first two ratings criteria, peer assessment and residency directors assessment, Baylor is not given a very high rating.

Cornell at #15, really deserves to be in the top ten because it is a top ten school measured by peer and residency director assessment and is a top ten in selectivity (measured by MCAT and GPA). What brings Cornell down in the rankings is its NIH funding. This research activity measure, NIH funding, is understated at Cornell because the rankings do not take into account its affiliation with Memorial Sloan Kettering and the Rockefeller Insitute, two major research institutes closely affiliated with Cornell. If the reserach activity at these institutions were factored into Cornell's overall score, Cornell would definatley be in the top ten.

You have to check out the rankings and rankings methodology in the US News and World Report to check these out.
Click to expand...


cornell also gets hurt bigtime becasue thier med campus isnt even close to the undergrad/main campuses.. so all the funding money that goes into the rankings does not take into account any medically related research done on the main campus, though it often does for most other schools
 
ND2005 said:
I love US news rankings.

My undergrad is so obsessed with moving up in the rankings, it's not even funny. A professor of mine who used to be in administration told me that the low "peer ranking" score personally frustrated our old president.

The two things holding us down are research $$ and "fine arts" -- so what does ND do? Build a 100 million dollar arts facility, and start aggressively trying to steal research faculty from the big 10 by offering them immediate tenure, endowed chairs, and new lab facilites.


Why do schools care so much about a list that they all realize is bunk?


EDIT: And hey, it worked! We moved up out of our 2 year tie with Emory, and are now tied with Vandy!
Click to expand...

Heres the issue. The ranking system is clearly flawed, but its something tanngible. While we (who are in the know) know that the rankings dont mean much, other people, like some of our family, friends and (more importantly) individual private donors don't. For many schools, the higher they move in the ranking, they attract more publicity, money and talented students. This essentially becomes a self-fulfilling cycle. Sad but true.
 
Can someone post the stats for BU. BU was ranked 40ish just 2-3 years ago until they got a HUGE NIH grant and jumped to 28. I'd like to see if their accepted student's GPA and MCAT went up significantly as a result of their new ranking's drawing power.
 
Can someone post up Vandy's numbers? Thanks!
 
Wow, Cornell dropped. Well all you guys holding acceptances, can you guys withdraw now so i can get off this waitlist already. Thanks!
 
mercaptovizadeh said:
Were these collaborations taken into account, I think UCSD would definitely be a top ten school. Scripps, Burnham, Salk all have collaborations with UCSD, and as is well known, Burnham and Salk are premier institutions in biology and biochemistry research, and Scripps is an international powerhouse in (particularly organic) chemistry.
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[tongue in cheek] But we dropped from #7 to #33 in the primary care rankings in one year! [/tongue in cheek]
 
I was curious why there was no info on Penn state, so I looked it up on US News' database. Apparently PSU refused to fill out the survey and that's why there's no ranking or further information on that school. It would be interesting to see how many other schools did the same thing and if the rankings would be changed had they participated.
 
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