[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by doggydog, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step scores: Above Average
    EM rotations: Above Average
    AOA
    Medical school region: Sorry
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    I had several EM extracurriculars as well as some research. Good scores, but overall probably not too much on my application that stood out from the rest.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Strength of clinical training (high-volume, high-acuity). Fit. Location. 3>4. County exposure.

    1) JPS
    This was the biggest surprise of the interview trail for me. I followed last year’s ROL thread closely and it definitely had an influence on my application this year. Before the interview trail started I was expecting to rank one of the classic SDN favorite programs first, but in the end I was completely blown away by JPS. This place is an intense 3 year county program. JPS does not have a gen surg or IM residency (however, they do have external surgery resident rotators from Baylor-Dallas) and so you have an incredible trauma exposure with outrageous procedure numbers. This was the busiest ED during the interview tour that I saw this season. They have an attached high-volume urgent care area that siphons off the low acuity cases, leaving the residents with a ton of high-acuity patients every shift. The residents were incredibly friendly and the faculty were young, engaged, and ready to make this program even better. So many of the residents insisted about how JPS was their first choice and they were definitely passionate about their training. The benefits were outstanding (insurance with all premiums covered for all dependents, free meals, parking, etc), especially considering the COL in Fort Worth.

    2) Indiana
    A well-loved SDN program, and for good reason. The combination of county and academic EDs provides for an outstanding exposure during the three years of training. The residents had a strong sense of family, and it was apparent that the faculty loved to work with the residents. The facilities were gorgeous, and in very convenient locations near each other. Fantastic job placement and plenty of opportunities for research if that is your thing. Overall, I would be thrilled to end up here. The only real negative I took away is that ED is primarily airway-only for the trauma activations.

    3) Maricopa
    Maricopa had the strongest emphasis on resident wellness of all the programs that I visited. The PD is a very personable guy, and truly seems to be invested in the well-being of his residents both inside and outside the hospital. The training is fantastic and has been well described before. The residents really seemed to enjoy their residency and genuinely seemed to enjoy being around each other and the faculty.

    4) Carolinas
    All three years in the same hospital. Faculty and residents were very welcoming and friendly. The hospital is busy and only getting busier. The CMC reputation is a huge asset when it comes to job placement. The first year was a little uncomfortably close to a transitional year, however they’ve recently added another ED month (but still have a pediatric floor month?).

    5) UT Houston
    A great combo between a very high-acuity academic private trauma center and a county hospital. The program is expanding to 21 residents next year. They recently switched to 8 hour shifts on weekdays with 12s on weekends and the residents seemed to really like the new schedule. I had great interactions with the faculty and residents. The Texas Medical Center is a monster. May have some concerns about the more limited role of the ED in trauma activations, however they are still one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation.

    6) Vanderbilt
    A strong program with a long history for great emergency physicians. The Wrenn-Slovis combo has created a well-oiled emergency medicine machine. The residents were some of the nicest on the trail as well as some of the most humble. A huge emphasis of the program is on teaching and education. I appreciate this, but in the end I know that I am more of a hands-on, learn-by-doing type of person.

    7) Austin
    One of the newest Texas programs. The PD is very engaged and energetic. The residents continually mentioned how the PD is willing to take their feedback and make any changes they suggest if they have a good reason for it. The faculty all seemed to really enjoy their jobs and get along with the residents. I had some concerns about the ED not being resident-run. The small class size (8) is definitely different than the other programs where I interviewed. They get paid more than any other program that I’ve seen. Free doctor’s lounge food.

    8) Denver
    Do we need to say anything more about Denver? Put in a freshly graduated medical student, wait four years, and out comes a total emergency medicine boss. In the end, I didn’t think the fourth year here was what I wanted. The graduated responsibility seemed a little slow and I didn’t like the idea of presenting my patients to residents just one year ahead of me. The COL-to-benefits ratio seemed considerably worse in comparison to many other programs. Every resident I interacted with seemed super pleased with their training, however, I did hear the phrase “we aren’t malignant” maybe 6-8 times.

    9) UTSW
    What a huge emergency department. Incredible volume and an immense physical layout. A fantastic pediatric experience at Children’s Medical Center (same location for JPS). Great community ED time, which really gets your foot in the door for that sweet Texas job market. The trauma experience at Parkland is definitely a bummer, and the residents were pretty open about the frustrations that they encountered. On interview day I repeatedly heard how they see >200k patients per year, but that’s not the entire picture. >60k of that number are from urgent care visits, >15k from a separate ob-gyn pod, >5k from a separate psych pod, and there are also pods in the main ED that aren’t staffed by residents at all. I have no doubt that the residents are crazy busy, its just that if you are going to use that number as a selling point of the program (>200k), make sure that it actually represents what the residency experiences.

    10) Baylor
    Baylor has an incredibly nice PD who has a huge focus on diversity and education. They work at a very busy county hospital with many county hospital type of problems. You see a large volume and you get to do pediatrics in the huge Texas Children’s Hospital. My interactions with the residents brought up some concerns about the program’s strength in the hospital hierarchy as well as some scheduling problems they encountered 2 years ago. Anesthesiology is still a part of the trauma activations. There are on-going turf wars that this new program is having to fight that I just don’t want to be a part of.
     
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  3. tux4

    tux4

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    I'm DO and understand. I have boards + research + "interesting extracurriculars" that line up with the people on this page that score 20-30 interviews but fell way short of what I expected. It is what it is.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  4. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    For IMGs, the bias is way worse than do's. They'll get sloes that are honors where only 10-20 percent get honors on rotation and still get a "low 1/3".

    Part of the issue is, most of the SLOES that I have seen from an IMG usually come from university-based programs. I'm not sure how they secure these rotations, it may be an arrangement with their individual schools. But it's very obvious that these programs don't rank IMGs, when they have students who are being graded in the top 15% of candidates still being marked as low third ranking.

    I'm not diminishing the bias against DOs, I just think its worse for IMGs. They really should be targeting community EM residencies that have matched IMGs in the past, much like DOs target programs that have a decent DO percentage in their classes.
     
    EazyE1907 likes this.
  5. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

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    But it's hard for students to know these things as MS3s, particularly if you're an IMG at a school which may or may not have good EM advising. From a student's perspective, being offered an away elective at a University program gives the impression that they're at least somewhat interested in interviewing and ranking us as applicants, and a SLOE from a well-respected university program in theory would carry weight and open doors for more interviews at similar programs, so I totally understand why many IMGs would try to snag rotations at university programs.

    If a program doesn't rank IMGs or DOs, then it should offer them away clerkships either. It's a waste of the applicant's time since they could be building more fruitful connections elsewhere and takes a spot away from a student who they would consider interviewing and ranking.
     
  6. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    I totally agree. You'd think rotating at a more prestigous place would help. But in a world where SLOEs are king and "low 1/3" SLOEs can be a kiss of death, choosing where to rotate is very, very important.
     
    Babycatsinabag and AlgernonMed like this.
  7. EMPertinent

    EMPertinent

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    That seems terribly unfair. Do SLOE writers routinely give students who've honored a rotation the low 1/3rd designation?
     
  8. CliveStaples

    CliveStaples 5+ Year Member

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    There's a portion of the letter that asks the program where they anticipate ranking an applicant on their match list. It's entirely possible that a program can think an applicant has a lot of promising skills (and subsequently give them top 1/3 in many categories) but then decide that either A) the applicant isn't a good fit for their program, even with all their promising skills, or B) the applicant based on their IMG status is going to be ranked lower regardless of their rotation performance.

    So if you see an IMG who "rocks" a rotation and gets a positive sounding SLOE but then the question that asks where they'll be ranked is "bottom 1/3" then it's safe to say that program likely has a policy against ranking IMGs highly or at all.
     
    racerwad likes this.
  9. EMPertinent

    EMPertinent

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    But if saying that an otherwise stellar rotator is likely to be at the bottom of rank list is a death knell to their residency candidacy (which is what @gamerEMdoc implied), then why do it? I understand that there is very real institutional bias against IMGs, and to a certain extent DOs, but SLOEs should reflect EM aptitude as objectively as possible. IMHO, it's bullsh*t.
     
  10. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 5+ Year Member

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    "How highly would you estimate the candidate will reside on your rank list?"

    Emphasis my own. The SLOE is not your buddy, pal. Not answering truthfully flies in the face of the entire point of the SLOE.
     
  11. RPedigo

    RPedigo Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    There are two parts to the SLOE ranking -- first is "compared to other EM residency candidates you have recommended in the last academic year, this candidate is in the..." top 10%, top 1/3, middle 1/3, and bottom 1/3. We typically place students in these categories based solely on their subinternship performance. The subsequent question is "how highly would you estimate the candidate will reside on your rank list?" These two questions are asking different questions. It is very possible that someone will be top 1/3 for subinternship performance and middle 1/3 or even lower 1/3 for rank list, depending on the rest of their application and fit for the program. For instance, if I have an above-average rotating student (let's say top 1/3 on evaluations) who failed the boards twice and has no extracurricular activities, they may be top 1/3 for subinternship performance and bottom 1/3 for rank list. This is why doing rotations at places that are good fits for your application is the best idea. I get students each year who want to do an away rotation with us who, even if they were the best subintern of the year, would be unlikely to match with us because of the strength of the rest of their application. I try to suggest alternative places to rotate for those applicants, because it is not in their best interest to spend their time rotating at a site they will not be competitive to match at.

    To answer your quoted question much more directly: I would never give a student who honored the rotation a lower 1/3 designation for subinternship performance (or obviously they would never have achieved honors), but based on the factors I outlined above, it would be possible that they would be lower 1/3 rank list.
     
    Babycatsinabag and AlgernonMed like this.
  12. Babycatsinabag

    Babycatsinabag

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    I agree. I rotated at one of the top county programs, and let's just say that they have higher expectations. I was lucky it was my third and last rotation, so I had some confidence, a bit more knowledge, but even then it is intimidating to rotate alongside 15 other really great applicants from awesome places. We are compared to one another at the end of the day, so the whole process of aways and applications has to be quite strategic.
     
  13. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    I agree its terribly unfair to get a low 1/3 despite doing well on rotation. Which is why I pointed it out, so people could realize this can happen. If a place is not IMG friendly (or DO friendly), and doesnt have a single IMG (or DO) on their resident list, its probably not going to be in someones best interest to rotate there for a SLOE. It may not be fair, but that is the question the SLOE asks, where do you anticipate ranking the student. If a place doesnt rank IMGs or DOs, then Id stear clear.
     
  14. zyx189

    zyx189

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    Good god, the more I come on this thread, the more I freak out... c'mon Monday
     
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  15. SamtheWise

    SamtheWise

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    Every time I see someone rank my #1 highly I wince. I know I shouldn't, BUT IT HAPPENS. I am an imperfect person.
     
  16. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Removed upon request.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  17. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 210s, Step 2: 220s
    EM rotations: H/H
    Medical school region: Mid-Atlantic
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Prior EMS experience. Applied late, missed the first round of interviews. That definitely hurt me.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Fit, location, 8s and 9s over 12s.

    1) Hackensack -
    Great PD, location right by the George Washington Bridge. Residents seemed friendly and happy. ED is bright and clean.

    2) SUNY Upstate -
    Syracuse isn't great, but by far the best PD I've met on the trail. 8 hr shifts, happy residents, huge catchment area, EM seems well respected in the hospital.

    3) UF Gainesville -
    Gainesville seems like a really nice, clean place to live. Happy residents, great academics, really nice ED. Good weather, at least during the winter.

    4) Stony Brook -
    Honestly the only downside was location, way out on Long Island in the middle of nowhere. Otherwise amazing didactics and faculty, tight-knit group of residents, excellent critical care exposure. Mostly 9 hr shifts.

    5) Staten Island -
    PD interview was strange, felt like I was talking to someone manic or high on cocaine. 12 hour shifts, cramped ED, mediocre location. The pay is really good here though.

    6) UCF -
    Only one class of residents so far, and I wasn't impressed with them. I don't remember seeing the PD on my interview day, not sure if he was there or not. They took us on a tour of their med school campus, which was beautiful but had nothing to do with the EM residency from what I could tell. All 12 hr shifts. Just didn't feel comfortable here.

    7) Brooklyn Hospital -
    Would have loved to skip this interview but I didn't have enough invites. Crazy high COL, 4th year seems useless, faculty are all brand new after multiple PD and staff changes over the last few years. Residents didn't seem at all excited to be there. The intern giving us a tour didn't even want to show us the ED, we had to ask him to. The program seemed a mess.
     
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  18. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: >255, Step 2: >265, COMLEX: >755/>900
    EM rotations: H/HP?/H
    Medical school region: Midwest
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Top 10% of Class, Honors in most of 3rd year clerkships, prior work in the emergency department, heard I had good comments on SLOE's

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    geography, fit, 3>4 years were most important. Cost of living and benefits helped me weigh programs that I my mind were equals when it came to training. In the end, I applied broadly to cities I'd be happy to live in that were DO friendly. Got lucky that I was able to be picky about where to interview.

    1) University of Arizona- Main Campus -
    Pros: Big university program with all that brings. Good critical care exposure with possibility of staying to do a fellowship. ⅓ of time at South Campus, which I felt would fill in some of the training gaps at the main site. Decent peds exposure. Nice faculty and residents. Seemed like a good place for families.

    Cons: didn't love Tucson, but I really loved Arizona as a whole.

    2) Indiana -
    Pros: Old, prestigious program. Great university and county experience. COL really good for family. Great benefits. Emergency medicine seems to be THE program in Indianapolis. Residents were great and I loved that they were not only willing to come to the interview dinner, but they were also willing to drive you. This said a lot about them/the program.

    Cons: cold, not a huge fan of the midwest. Big program.

    3) UTSW -
    Pros: facilities, large volume, great peds experience, tons of resources available, high salary, jobs in Texas after residency.

    Cons: trauma was weak (commute to Fort Worth for trauma rotations), maybe too busy? (if thats really such a thing), not excited about Dallas traffic, $500/month for family health insurance

    4) Maricopa -
    Pros: great trauma (switch off with surgery for procedures), sick patients, nice PD.

    Cons: "county" facilities, questionable strength of off-service rotations, many different sites, poor relationship with Phoenix children"s at the moment, wasn't super impressed by the resident dinner/lunch (may have been a fluke), Phoenix traffic.

    5) University of Utah -
    Pros: location, Intermountain Medical Center rotations seemed really great, orthopedic ski clinic.

    Cons: didn't mesh well with residents/faculty, they seem to be a little "stuck up", low volume/acuity at main ED

    6) Baylor
    7) UC-Davis
    8) JPS
    9) UT-Houston
    10) UNM
    11) University of Arizona - South
    12) Cook County
    13) UIC
    14) UNLV

    Other:
    I applied to a 44 programs, which were a mix of "DO friendly" and reach programs. 24 invites. Got lots of love from the ones who've taken DO's in the past. Not so much from others.

    Interview declined: Hennepin, VCU, Case Western/MetroHealth, Grand Rapids, Albert Einstein Philly, UMKC, University of Kansas- Kansas City, UI- Peoria, Christus, UTSA

    Waitlisted: Maryland, Stanford

    Rejected or no contact: Couple of random east and west coast programs plus some of the bigger name programs like Cincinnati, Denver, Vandy, Emory. Nothing heartbreaking or surprising there.
     
  19. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Why bother? Why waste your time? Not "cool", not "edgy", not funny. Not a list. Just a jumbled mess. What you posted is half done. More than one person has ranked Cinci or U of A first. There is no reasonable reason why you would mix up half of your list.
     
  20. jessk2015

    jessk2015

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    I think at this point people are just doing it to troll you.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  21. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    ^ gotta say, I agree with Apollyon. Is this person trying to say that a program would have been deeply offended seeing they were 12 on that list, and not 11 or higher? I think the applicant pool would benefit from hearing why a highly touted program was dropped lower. Preference, location, interactions, etc. I dunno... Seems like a good amount of effort goes into these lists, and then the back end is dumped. Why?
     
    racerwad likes this.
  22. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    I'd appreciate it if the person who this list belongs to would PM me!
     
  23. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    I'd appreciate it if the person who this list belongs to would PM me!
     
  24. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Certainly possible, but it's juvenile, stupid, certainly unoriginal, not clever, and wastes other people's time. And, since it is anonymous, it's all bull****, anyhow.
     
  25. tux4

    tux4

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    Is there an area to explain why that student would be considered at the bottom 1/3 despite a top 1/3 performance? If not then it just leaves it up the imagination of whoever will see the letter, making it quite subjective based off if that one question. Also even if that person has a low chance at matching at your residency, your answer to that question is potentially affecting their competitiveness at other institutions. All of that just based off of one programs bias toward what medical school that person came from. If there is low/no potential of that person matching there, then should it be equally as difficult to do an audition rotation there? So as to avoid any confusion, not waste someones time and not get a SLOE that deals collateral damage.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  26. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Dude, chill...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  27. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    There is a section for comments at the end of the sloe, but unfortunately not everyone uses it to explain the reasoning behind the chosen ranking.

    I did see a sloe writer once state something like "we allow for two IMGs to rotate from school x a year"... reading btw the lines it seems like they had some sort of agreement in place, had to take two students, but still no desire to rank IMGs. This was a pretty competitve program.

    IMGs are put in a tough position. Depending on their school they may have to set up all of the rotations themselves. It's certainly not an enviable position.

    No matter who the candidate is, IMG, DO, or US MD, it's very important to understand how competitive your application is, and target your fourth year rotations at places that you will likely be competitive at.
     
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  28. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    I review these (SLOEs) often. We know who grades hard, who grades easy, we know when a candidate kills the rotation but, for whatever reason, ranks low on that particular programs rank forecast. There is a LOT of reading between the lines. That doesn't offer any comfort to candidates, I'm sure, but know that when those are reviewed, they are taken seriously. I'm sure there are programs that could auto-KO a candidate based on a 'lower-third', but those programs are the ones fielding hundreds of apps with steps of 250/250, AOA, etc. Applicants are predictable, to an extent. The ranklists everyone is seeing isn't coincidence. It's SDN... high powered, self-selecting, and NOT representative of the applicant pool at large. Vandy/Cinci/Indy/etc CAN be selective, and they can take a SLOE with a 'bottom 1/3' ont he rank, but 'honors' performance and walk past it. That said, trust me, it has more to do with IMG or DO status at that point than it does with that particular SLOE.

    I really think that programs should be clear about what they will do for you though. I read SLOEs for these candidates, GLOWING, with a bottom 1/3 rec, and I see through some of the smoke. If any app committee out there isn't taking a total app into consideration (past initial filters) they are screwing themselves out of potentially excellent candidates.

    It's a complex process.
    It's an irony of the SLOE... emergency medicine tried to make the eval objective and unifiorm (hell, read the CORD em website on the actual description on how to read an SLOE...). Yet it boils down to a large amount of subjective analysis. We try to read past that.

    Anywho... you will ALL do very well. And no matter if you match 1st or 12th choice, put the effort in, embrace the training, and you will graduate a bad ass EM doc :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  29. RPedigo

    RPedigo Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Yes there is a comment section, and I would always use that section to describe a disparity in ranking. There is a 250-word cap in the comment box, but it allows for a nice summary of performance, areas of concern/improvement, etc.

    Regarding being equally difficult to do an audition rotation, yes, we do have a "match meeting" for reviewing subinternship applicants, but as you probably know VSAS only gives limited information (sometimes Step scores, sometimes not, and in pass/fail schools unclear what their 3rd-year performance is like). I do discourage applicants who are not competitive to match with us to do rotations elsewhere for reasons you described. It is not, however, "just based off of one programs bias toward what medical school that person came from" but rather their entire application; their medical school is one aspect of that application.
     
  30. Emapp20177

    Emapp20177

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    Read the other comments about those programs. Who cares. How was that one different than the next list (which did a list without any comments for 6+?)
     
    FirefighterDoc likes this.
  31. racerwad

    racerwad 7+ Year Member

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    Because it was an ordered list, which is the basis for a rank order list thread.
     
  32. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    I agree. I mean, I sincerely appreciate all the work Apollyon has done with the rank lists. I truly mean that, you sir are a saint. However, I don't understand the anger here. This is information we wouldn't get otherwise without people volunteering it. People are understandably more enthusiastic about the upper half of their rank list than the bottom half. And thus, are more willing to write more. I know I personally wrote a lot less for the bottom half of my list than I did the top because I was a) less enthusiastic about those places and b) tired from having written a lot about the first half.

    Tl;dr: I personally don't know where all the anger comes from when people don't fully fill out the list. Isn't the reason we're all going into EM is because we're all pretty chill people? If you want to be angry, that's fine. But like ImageUploadedBySDN1489208101.849218.jpg

    We're all entitled to one. Good luck all next week!!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
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  33. EMGui2017

    EMGui2017

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    I don't think he is upset people aren't writing about the bottom half. He is mad that they post the bottom half in "no particular order" which by definition isn't a rank list.

    Edit to also say good luck to everyone next week!
     
  34. IH8ColdWeath3r

    IH8ColdWeath3r 7+ Year Member

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    A lot of valuable information in this thread. Thank you to all of the attending physicians and program directors for commenting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  35. 6yearmedstud

    6yearmedstud

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    When you're not sure if it's a good or bad that no one ranked your #1 program on SDN
     

    Attached Files:

  36. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: ~250, Step 2: ~260
    EM rotations: My school is pass/fail. I passed. No idea what my SLOEs say though.
    Medical school region: Midwest
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    I am a DO student so I was at a disadvantage. Strong points are probably board scores. i have quite a few research projects including one pub. i have a long history and passion for volunteerism that i hope came through during interviews.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Underserved population and rigorous training. Location. "Fit" with faculty/resident culture. Pediatric experience. Resources.

    1) St. John Hospital and Medical Center - Detroit
    2) Detroit Receiving Hospital - Detroit
    3) DMC Sinai Grace Hospital - Detroit
    4) UTSW - Dallas
    5) MetroHealth - Cleveland
    6) Grand Rapids Medical Education Partners - Grand Rapids, MI
    7) Central Michigan University - Saginaw, MI
    8) University of Maryland - Baltimore
    9) Western Michigan University - Kalamazoo, MI
    10) Albert Einstein - Philadelphia

    Other:
    Did not rank Genesys in Grand Blanc, MI.
     
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  37. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: ~240, Step 2: ~250
    EM rotations: H/H
    Medical school region: Mid-Atlantic
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Reasonably interesting history prior to med school

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Clinical training + decent academic opportunity. Prefer 3>4 .

    1) Cook County
    The only 4 year program I decided to interview at. Absolutely loved their residents, staff and admins. Respected the ethos and heart of the program. Very much fit with what I want in my training. I am actually a fan of the extra medicine time, too.

    Cons: 4 years, lower salary, more scut. In the end I decided it was worth it though.

    2) Emory
    Really struggled with Emory vs Cook. Also an amazing program ethos. Great community-type training at Grady but also access to legitimate resources for research and potential international exposure.

    3) UNC
    Loved the residents, good mix of academic + community feel. Nice place to live for a few years.

    4) MCV
    This one really surprised me- wasn't expecting much from them and then was shocked how much I enjoyed my experience. Loved the PD, great training, great mission.

    Cons: Don't really want to live in Richmond.

    5) Advocate Christ
    My favorite residents of the interview season. Such a fun group, would love to work with them. Great clinical training, surprisingly productive with research.

    Cons: Not a convenient location to commute to if you want to live in a more fun part of Chicago.

    6) Maryland
    Good clinical + academic mix, productive research. Shock trauma is awesome.

    Cons: Baltimore less desirable. I think the PD seemed really effective at his job but didn't seem to have a good rapport with him.

    7) Mayo
    Infinite resources, great off service training, take excellent care of their residents.

    Cons: maybe too academic. Hard to imagine work there is representative of EM work almost anyplace else. That worried me a bit.

    8) Iowa
    Loved the people, lots of interesting opportunities for residents. Really enjoyed the area. Super productive with research.

    Cons: Less trauma, didn't have a great rapport with their PD

    9) Greenville, SC
    Blew me away- an almost perfect interview day. Loved their PD, the staff, the way they are structuring their curriculum.

    Con: not in love with living in that area of the south, brand new program. If it had been around for even just a couple years, this place probably would have been in the mix for #1 for me. Would still be really happy training there.

    10) VT Carillon
    High volume, crap tons of procedures, well run interview day. Liked the staff, really pretty area, competitive pay with low COL. Pretty good moon lighting opportunities.

    Cons: An amazing region to live if you are out-doorsy, but since I'm not really the kayak/climb/mountain bike type I find the area less appealing.

    11) MCW
    Nice people, beautiful facilities, awesome flight program. Milwaukee is sneaky cool, too.

    Cons: None really, just didn't feel like the right fit.

    12) Wake Forest
    My least favorite interview day of the season. Great reputation, super academic.

    Cons: Lots of weirdly uncomfortable and borderline hostile interactions with interviewers (it was such an outlier in that regard.) Didn't love WS. Want more off-service exposure.
     
  38. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

    465
    700
    Mar 20, 2016
    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: >240, Step 2: >240
    EM rotations: HP/H/P
    Medical school region: Left Blank
    Anything else that made you more competitive:
    Top 10% of class, mostly honored clinical grades, one SLOE ranked in top 10% per an interviewer, other SLOEs were probably meh (never discussed during interview, no indication if positive or negative), no publications, DO applicant, strong personal statement, application "bulletproof."

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
    Only applied to 3 year programs, Community/county>academic. Tried to balance perceived training quality and reputation with quality of life and COL, avoided big cities with high COL and terrible traffic. SO happiness also helped shape rank list geographically favoring west>midwest. Did not apply to east coast, southern, LA, or Chicago programs. Favored programs that were not consult heavy.

    My rank list would likely look quite a bit different if geography didn't play such a heavy role. I was really impressed with most places I interviewed at and will be happy even if I fall way down my list. I had a really difficult time ranking programs because so many are so good (EM is great like that)! I have some really fantastic programs in the bottom half of my list that could easily be in the top couple of spots. It really was like splitting hairs for me and geography won when it came down to it.

    1) University of Utah
    Pros: balance of community and academic medicine, great residents, beautiful location, minimal traffic, livable city, didactics were very good, strong off-service with some fun experiences built in.

    Cons: a little more academic than I would prefer, less county exposure than a lot of my other top choices. Still a division of surgery and splitting airways with anesthesia. Heard from numerous sources that there may be some limited pathology here and a lower volume of high acuity patients.

    2) Maricopa
    Pros: straight county experience, EM seems to be well respected here. Not much consulting or turning over procedures to other services. 10 months in the ED 3rd year, paid conference for all 3 years, awesome winters, 4 weeks vacation, recently established Creighton affiliation may bring in more academic backing (and money). Integrated pediatrics, burn rotation. This may be the only 3 year program I visited with 3 months of elective time. Hopefully fewer shifts 3rd year translates to moonlighting experience. You only do two night shifts/month for 11 months, all your other night shifts are packed into the 12th month. 9 hour shifts (20-18-16)

    Cons: Phoenix traffic and hot summers, numerous sites, neuro floor rotation. Facilities were not much to look at but that will change with new hospital being built over the course of the next 3-5 years.

    3) University of Arizona - South Campus
    Pros: community with about 1/3 of shifts at academic center, mixed pediatric exposure at South Campus, dedicated peds ED at main campus. Residents have a lot of autonomy despite a graduated responsibility set-up. Good residents with healthy mix of married/committed and single residents. Low COL, best benefit package on my list, warm and fuzzies, 4 weeks vacation, awesome PD (as mentioned already by many). 9 hour shifts (20-19-18)

    Cons: transitioning to cerner in July, recently purchased by Banner Health so there are some unknowns, not entirely sure how I feel about weekly spanish courses as a part of didactics.

    4) University of Nebraska
    Pros: single facility, only Trauma I in Nebraska, low traffic, great pay and benefits, awesome residents who seemed very down to earth, happy, and friendly. Great interactions with faculty, safe, 4 weeks vacation, great internal and external moonlighting. Seem to take care of residents very well, warm and fuzzies. Creighton ED closing so they expect to see an increase in volume. Best interview day and info packet, presented very well. 12 hour shifts for interns, 9 hours PGY2-3 (18-20)

    Cons: cold winters, maybe a little more academic than I would like, ED remodel coming soon, didactic room was tiny, tons of consults and subspecialists, paid parking (really? Come on Omaha).

    5) UNM
    Pros: great mix of county/community/academic medicine. Strong reputation in EM, have a lot of fellowship trained EM docs, particularly in critical care. Nice facilities, faculty seemed down to earth, most of the residents came off very friendly, confident. ABQ seems pretty livable (and a little odd), low COL, outdoor activities close, much milder climate than Arizona, +moonlighting. PD seemed laid back and loved her residents. 9 hour shifts (18 for interns?)

    Cons: lower end of payscale, aforementioned boarding problems, seemed to be some gear grinding with trauma team and frustrated residents because of it.

    6) UC Davis
    Pros: great facilities. Sacramento, contrary to what I had heard, seemed like a nice place to live with great weather and tons of trees. Minimal traffic, longitudinal pediatric exposure, 20% of shifts are at community site, scribes for PGY2-3, significant county patient population, flexible vacation, great weather. 10 hour shifts (no new after 8), 12s on weekends (none for interns), (20-18-16)

    Cons: would have been higher on the list but of COL, though low by CA standards, was a concern for me. Lots of consulting and subspecialists around, ease of psych placement ebbs and flows. Medicine floor month, paid parking.

    7) Kaweah Delta
    Pros: Very friendly, down-to-earth residents. EM was the first residency here and is expanding and seems to run the show. High volume ED that is bursting at the seams, small surgery residency and no ortho residents. Decent pay, great benefits, low COL for CA, no traffic, no commute, great weather, great access to Sequoia National Park and mountains. Great lifestyle fit, hard for me to gauge training. 10 hour shifts (19-18-17)

    Cons: newer program and as such lacks alumni network though they have no trouble getting people jobs in CA, transitioning to Cerner in November, ED remodel and expansion coming, residents said cafeteria was no bueno, new program growing pains regarding didactics and resident education.

    8) Western Michigan
    Pros: Low COL, minimal commute, two great hospitals to rotate at (rotate on a month to month basis). Monthly sim if that's your thing, scribes PGY2-3 at one facility, paid conference PGY2-3, PGY2-3 have one 24 hour lifeflight shift/month, one ultrasound shift/month, one 24 hour physician response vehicle shift/month which gives some fun training outside the department. Extra days off for holidays, can use single vacation days, huge group of residents which means more people to mesh with, new medical school facilities to use, lots of sports med opportunities, run most traumas due to small gen surg program, ICU staffed by EM docs, EPIC 8 hour shifts (19-18-17)

    Cons: huge program is +/-, lower pay. Geography and long winters were the only reasons this program fell this low because I would be so excited to train here, really cool program with great residents and great training.

    9) University of Illinois Peoria
    Pros: Low COL, no commute, no traffic, more down-to-earth residents here who I really got along well with. Huge catchment area, only Level I for 18 counties, see some penetrating traumas from gang violence, EPIC, scribes PGY2-3, read all your own plain films, 20% pediatric population in main ED, mostly faculty didactic presentations, easy social admits, tag along with SWAT when serving high risk warrants, awesome sim center, acts as county catchment, residents respected and treated well, love that it is run by the catholic church and has a great mission to go along with it. Another great program I would be happy to train in. 10 hour shifts (21-20-19)

    Cons: ED setup was different, doc box sort of felt like a bus stop, religious influence in the hospital very prominent which may be a +/- for some, residents talked like their trauma experience was fairly limited to rotations on the trauma service, neuro floor month.

    10) Grand Rapids
    Pros: livable city, friendly residents, single site which includes dedicated pediatric hospital and ED. 1/3 of shifts are in peds ED. Residents respond to every trauma, good moonlighting opportunities, fantastic social support for patients, huge volume. Really cool facilities, residents are well trained and see a lot of pathology 8 hour shifts (21-20-19)

    Cons: Spectrum is breaking off from GRMP so there are some unknowns with how that will affect residents. Not one of my better interview performances so that is likely the source of my lack of excitement.

    11) UNLV
    Pros: located 1/4 mile from the strip so residents seem some interesting stuff. Seemed to have a more county/community feel to it than academic. Separate trauma ED that was fairly large, dedicated pediatric ED, low COL. PD seemed like a nice guy who is putting together great opportunities for residents. Almost all residents single, fun event medicine. 12 hour shifts

    Cons: 12's, seemed small for a University medical center, relatively new program still finding itself, a couple off-putting interactions at the social and during interview day that steered me away. Interview day notable for about half of the didactic presenters awarding alcohol for correctly answered questions. I'm all for having a good time, but it was a little over the top, even for Vegas. Previously high on my list, its position here had more to do with a lack of fit than perceived training quality.

    Other:
    44 applications split between dream programs, geographic preference, and DO friendly programs. 25 Invitations, attended 11. Geographic bias is real, got very little love from Texas. Wish list included UofAZ Main, and some Texas programs.
     
    DO2017_EM likes this.
  39. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

    465
    700
    Mar 20, 2016
    SEND MOAR RANK LISTS
     
  40. TheBlueBlazer

    TheBlueBlazer 7+ Year Member

    214
    91
    Mar 17, 2008
    Charm City
    If you think the order programs are ranked is more important than the information that is shared regarding the characteristics of each program, you are doing it way, way wrong and I have pity for your unhappiness when you are miserable at a program that was not the right fit for you but more "prestigious" or highly-ranked according to other people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    trojanman217 likes this.
  41. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

    77
    100
    May 16, 2016
    So many grains of salt. So many salty grains.
     
    LilKangaroo and TimesNewRoman like this.
  42. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

    491
    260
    Nov 22, 2012
    deleted 2/2 paranoia
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    Rekt likes this.
  43. 6yearmedstud

    6yearmedstud

    82
    71
    May 25, 2016
    Kettering, Ohio
    Hope everyone hears good news tomorrow! Best of luck
     
  44. zyx189

    zyx189

    51
    63
    Sep 22, 2016
    cannot.go.to.sleep
    argghhhh this is killing me >.<

    EDIT: 4:40AM and my mind refuses to rest :dead::dead::dead:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  45. medschool2cool

    medschool2cool

    24
    8
    Nov 26, 2016
    the R3 system has released match status' on their website!


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
    dadaddadaBATMAN likes this.
  46. EMapplicant2017

    EMapplicant2017

    33
    60
    Oct 1, 2016
    Nothin
    Nothing for me yet. Must be staggered >.<
     
  47. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 5+ Year Member

    999
    910
    Aug 16, 2012
    Anytown, USA
    FTFY
     
  48. jessk2015

    jessk2015

    96
    99
    Oct 1, 2016
    That was super mean.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
    em_2017 and JBOB like this.
  49. zyx189

    zyx189

    51
    63
    Sep 22, 2016
    Just got the email! I MATCHED!!! :clap::soexcited::clap::soexcited:
     
  50. EMapplicant2017

    EMapplicant2017

    33
    60
    Oct 1, 2016
    Matched!!!!!!!

    Comon Friday!!!!
     

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