2018-19 Pain Fellowship Interview Thread

IPSIS: Formerly the Spine Intervention Society
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
MDApplicant3 said:
Should you send your ite scores in? I figured the programs would ask if they want them

Edit: to clarify I mean should you send them in cold, obv send them in if they request them
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m not sure. I sent them in cause my step scores are subpar and I’m happy with my ite score. I think it also shows interest if I send them in. But again. If they aren’t requesting the scores it might not factor in their decision when granting interviews.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Titan07 said:
Maximus, you wrote earlier that you didn’t apply until your CA-2 ITE scores were in. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see a place to add my ITE scores to the ERAS application.
Click to expand...

To clarify, I applied without them and then updated programs when I received my score.

There is no ITE section on ERAS unless this has changed.

Titan07 said:
My situation is a little nontraditional and I think it puts me at a little bit of a disadvantage in the application process. I’m applying to a pain fellowship after graduating back in 2011 from residency and working at a public hospital ever since. Some programs still want my ITE scores even when I tell them I can give you a copy of my ABA Certificate. I guess it’s another tool they can use to weed through applicants. I was able to dig up my CA-3 but that’s the best I could do. I hope that will do.
Click to expand...

If it won’t “do”, do you really want to go to those programs?

You will have your choice of programs as an ABA boarded Anesthesiologist. Rest assured, unless there is some tremendous blemish on your record of which I am unaware.

Apply broadly and enjoy the ride! Try to think of some good stories as a practicing Anesthesiologist that drove you down this path. Just my not-always-humble opinion!
 
MaximusD said:
You will have your choice of programs as an ABA boarded Anesthesiologist. Rest assured, unless there is some tremendous blemish on your record of which I am unaware.
Click to expand...

Are you saying this based on personal experience or are you just assuming it opens a lot of doors?

The reason I ask is that I am also an ABA-boarded applicant, and currently working in a great job for Anesth, and I guess I would like to have some options/choices and maybe some reassurance...especially since I'm giving up a lot for that year and subsequent years when building a practice. I'm understandably nervous about it all since I have a family and financial reasons to keep working in my current job, but it's what I've always wanted to do so I have to pursue my goal. When I applied previously, I was not boarded yet, did not receive many interviews and was pretty beaten up over the whole process, except for the fact I received some encouraging words from one of the program directors (from whom I did NOT receive an interview) to keep on trying, and that I would be a "much better candidate" after being boarded. I've got a great cv and experience...published..grad school...miltary...I am I guess worried that since I've been out of residency for several years that the programs won't want me...! you know old dogs and tricks etc..i'm not too old but i'm certainly not as young as the majority of the new grads! I sure appreciate your input.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Also a long time lurker and wish to thank everyone on last year's thread for helping me with this process, especially Maximus and Greengrass. Here are a few things I learned during last year's match that I wish I had known right at around this time:

1) Invites didn't start rolling in for me until around April. I had 9 interviews total.
2) Peak interview season for me was late June (2), July (5) and early August (2).
3) Traveling expenses are tax deductible. Google flights and priceline express deals kept my expenses under $2k. Keep a detailed account in a gmail thread of all your expenses.
4) All of my interviews were laid back as most of the interviewers were more interested in my home life than my professional life. I felt the hardest questions to answer were "why do you want to come here" and "why do you want to do pain."
5) The odds are highly in your favor as a US-trained anesthesiologist to match into pain. Try to not listen to the negative "highly qualified, 20 interviews, didn't match" anecdotal stories.
6) Get a lint remover aka sticky roller. This thing was pure gold. You can make an old suit look brand new in seconds.
7) Start your general anesthesiology job search after interview season ends. When you start getting lucrative job offers with 8-10 weeks vacation in gas , it attenuates the anxiety of going unmatched alot.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll be glad to keep adding to this thread. Stay strong and patient!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
jollygoodfellow said:
Are you saying this based on personal experience or are you just assuming it opens a lot of doors?

The reason I ask is that I am also an ABA-boarded applicant, and currently working in a great job for Anesth, and I guess I would like to have some options/choices and maybe some reassurance...especially since I'm giving up a lot for that year and subsequent years when building a practice. I'm understandably nervous about it all since I have a family and financial reasons to keep working in my current job, but it's what I've always wanted to do so I have to pursue my goal. When I applied previously, I was not boarded yet, did not receive many interviews and was pretty beaten up over the whole process, except for the fact I received some encouraging words from one of the program directors (from whom I did NOT receive an interview) to keep on trying, and that I would be a "much better candidate" after being boarded. I've got a great cv and experience...published..grad school...miltary...I am I guess worried that since I've been out of residency for several years that the programs won't want me...! you know old dogs and tricks etc..i'm not too old but i'm certainly not as young as the majority of the new grads! I sure appreciate your input.
Click to expand...

I am speaking off-hand, TBH, but I think that there is absolutely NOTHING different about this process when compared to applying to jobs in general.

In general, I think you need to set yourself apart. Voice interest bordering on being obnoxious but stopping just short. Preface your interviews with an excellent personal statement that ties your particular experiences into traits that will make you a good Pain doc. Be creative but honest. Have a good answer for what brings you back I to the applicant fold that shows maturity and that you aren’t trying to escape the OR.

Just some thoughts. I obviously don’t have all th answers, but I have never looked great on paper and have always matched well for my weight hehe (mixed metaphor)
 
mja75 said:
Also a long time lurker and wish to thank everyone on last year's thread for helping me with this process, especially Maximus and Greengrass. Here are a few things I learned during last year's match that I wish I had known right at around this time:

1) Invites didn't start rolling in for me until around April. I had 9 interviews total.
2) Peak interview season for me was late June (2), July (5) and early August (2).
3) Traveling expenses are tax deductible. Google flights and priceline express deals kept my expenses under $2k. Keep a detailed account in a gmail thread of all your expenses.
4) All of my interviews were laid back as most of the interviewers were more interested in my home life than my professional life. I felt the hardest questions to answer were "why do you want to come here" and "why do you want to do pain."
5) The odds are highly in your favor as a US-trained anesthesiologist to match into pain. Try to not listen to the negative "highly qualified, 20 interviews, didn't match" anecdotal stories.
6) Get a lint remover aka sticky roller. This thing was pure gold. You can make an old suit look brand new in seconds.
7) Start your general anesthesiology job search after interview season ends. When you start getting lucrative job offers with 8-10 weeks vacation in gas , it attenuates the anxiety of going unmatched alot.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll be glad to keep adding to this thread. Stay strong and patient!
Click to expand...

Hope you matched into a top choice!
 
jollygoodfellow said:
Are you saying this based on personal experience or are you just assuming it opens a lot of doors?

The reason I ask is that I am also an ABA-boarded applicant, and currently working in a great job for Anesth, and I guess I would like to have some options/choices and maybe some reassurance...especially since I'm giving up a lot for that year and subsequent years when building a practice. I'm understandably nervous about it all since I have a family and financial reasons to keep working in my current job, but it's what I've always wanted to do so I have to pursue my goal. When I applied previously, I was not boarded yet, did not receive many interviews and was pretty beaten up over the whole process, except for the fact I received some encouraging words from one of the program directors (from whom I did NOT receive an interview) to keep on trying, and that I would be a "much better candidate" after being boarded. I've got a great cv and experience...published..grad school...miltary...I am I guess worried that since I've been out of residency for several years that the programs won't want me...! you know old dogs and tricks etc..i'm not too old but i'm certainly not as young as the majority of the new grads! I sure appreciate your input.
Click to expand...

I think you're wise to be somewhat cautious. Here are 2018 Pain Medicine stats, Table 1:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Results-and-Data-SMS-2018.pdf

So 438 applicants, for 335 spots. So roughly 100 didn't match, or 1 in 4. Which for a fellowship match, is a blood bath. I think the only "large" fellowships (>100 programs) that have higher no match rates are Adult GI/Cards/Heme-Onc. The smaller fellowships that are super competitive are Gyn-Onc, Peds Surg and Surg Onc.

But of course, these are just numbers. And you are Anesthesia, and while I don't have data to back this statement up, I think its easier with Gas background. But I'm sure I'll get slammed by Non-Gas guys for this statement... If you have great CV experience, published and likable on the interview trail, you should have no issues matching.

Best of luck!
 
Last edited:
I'm not applying this year but likely will be in the future. Just wondering what how much/what kind of research you all have at the time of submitting apps. Anybody willing to share?
 
Ghostpepper said:
I'm not applying this year but likely will be in the future. Just wondering what how much/what kind of research you all have at the time of submitting apps. Anybody willing to share?
Click to expand...

Reposted from the first page, conducted a survey after match-day last year with an n=53. This includes mostly data on individuals who MATCHED or were selected for pain fellowship. It certainly has limitations and was a non-scientific study but you'll see that there are clear trends in what successful applicants had on their CV.

This data includes research publications and presentations at national conferences.

Survey Results for 2017 (for 2018) Pain Fellowship Applicants
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker and follower here. Went through the process last year along with MaxmiusD and Greengrass. Was a fun but long journey.

I'm a PM&R resident and matched into an Anesthesia based program on the west coast. Went on a large number of interviews all over the country. For anyone looking for advice on the process as a PM&R resident or specific programs, feel free to PM me. More than happy to help, give advice on programs and my thoughts from the interview, help with the CV etc.

One thing I do want to state though, the SAE (ITE for PM&R) and application. I applied to every program. 10 of the 90 or so wanted it and none of them used it to weed me out or in. Toledo specifically asked to see it just to make sure "I was on track to pass my boards." I don't feel that ITE/SAE has much weight especially if you have strong USMLE scores but plenty of people I know that matched didn't have so call mind-blowing SAE scores.

Hope it helps. Good luck everyone!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Yeah most programs didn’t care about it. They want to train good Pain docs and I had the impression that the interview, reason for wanting to be a pain doc and LORs were highly valued. YMMV!
 
I’m hearing a whole lot of crickets. Is it too early to be calling programs to ask what’s going on?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
MDApplicant3 said:
I’m hearing a whole lot of crickets. Is it too early to be calling programs to ask what’s going on?
Click to expand...

I don’t think very many programs have sent out invitations. There are the handful of programs that were mentioned earlier in this thread. From what I’ve heard Virgnia Mason, MCW, and Vanderbilt are starting to look at applications but don’t quote me on that.
 
MDApplicant3 said:
I’m hearing a whole lot of crickets. Is it too early to be calling programs to ask what’s going on?
Click to expand...

Not too early to send letters/emails of Interest to top programs, IMO. My first invite wasn’t until March after submitting in early Feb last year. Patience — otherwise this process will drive you insane.
 
Where are
IkeBoy18 said:
I applying for a pain fellowship, I notice there is no place for ITE scores, but step scores are available to programs. My step 1 was way below average, step 2 was average. My ITE is >75%tile. Is there a way this can be a consideration? I know mentioning it somewhere wont prevent me getting screened out step 1. Im not even sure if programs screen that way. Any advice? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't know about other specialties, but my program director said that programs are not allowed to ask for ITE scores at least the AAN (neurology) does not allow it, but I have heard that pain fellowships do ask for them.
 
MaximusD said:
Not too early to send letters/emails of Interest to top programs, IMO. My first invite wasn’t until March after submitting in early Feb last year. Patience — otherwise this process will drive you insane.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I believe my busiest months of invites/rejections was March and June. So don't stress too much until you hit July...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
General advice - demonstrate that you will be a teachable fellow who works well within a team by not flooding admins with emails inquiring when they’re sending out invites, and I’d say if they ask for ITE or SAE scores happily send them along. If there is an opportunity to send in documents then provide them with information so that you demonstrate you have nothing to hide. Turn possible weaknesses such as low scores into strengths when appropriate (such as learning from a poor test showing by switching up your strategy).

This forum is most helpful for posting invite dates - it may be appropriate to contact a program indicating your interest if you see they’ve sent out invites. This is also less awkward if you’ve met someone at a meeting (always take advantage of networking opportunities!) attend ASRA world congress or AAPM, both have networking events for applicants and PDs and it’s a great way to indicate your interest.

Remember correspondence can help just as much as it can hurt... don’t harass/be rude/spell check etc.

For PMR applicants - only one program wanted my SAE scores. I sent mine to one proactively and they said “thanks for the info, but we don’t need it.” So I wouldn’t recommend sending it along unless they ask for it.

This is a stressful time that will test your patience, pocketbook and sanity. Grow from the process as much as you can. Interviewees on the trail and staff in the programs will be your future colleagues if you do match, so keep that in mind once you start going on interviews.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Good luck to everyone applying this year. Does anyone plan on taking out a small loan for the interview season? And if so, any recommendations on a good lender?
 
Had a question that I’ve been getting a lot over private message and wanted to share.

“I’m a FMG in PM&R. Will that hurt my chances?”

Tough to say. I’m an American MD grad so I don’t know the odds but the interview thread survey from last year has a lot of this data. Anecdotally id day it won’t be a benefit and may hurt your chances: I went on a fair number of interviews and I didn’t see a foreign med grad at any of them. That being said I saw a lot of the same people at my interviews (shout out to the fun guy from Miami and getting stuck with me in the San Antonio airport...that was some damn good whiskey).

Hope it helps.
 
No new info here. Just consolidating previous posts so it'll be easier to keep track of:

1. Albany (1/31) - 5/4, 5/11
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7) - 5/7

I'm surprised no one has heard from Emory yet? They started extending invites in early-mid February pretty consistently the past couple of years from what I saw on previous threads.
 
William Sparrow said:
No new info here. Just consolidating previous posts so it'll be easier to keep track of:

1. Albany (1/31) - 5/4, 5/11
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7) - 5/7

I'm surprised no one has heard from Emory yet? They started extending invites in early-mid February pretty consistently the past couple of years from what I saw on previous threads.
Click to expand...

I know of someone who received an emory invite either late last week or earlier this one
 
IkeBoy18 said:
Do they only send out one round of invites? my app wasnt complete during the first wave.
Click to expand...
Everything I "know" is a result of word of mouth/combing old threads, so take my posts with a grain of salt. My understanding is that they do one early round of interviews, then a couple more rounds later in the Summer.
 
Hey everyone. I finished residency in 2010 and have now sent in my applications for a pain fellowship. I've noticed a few of the programs I applied to require one of the letters of recc to be from my program director. Do you guys know if in my situation , they still want a letter from my Program Director from residency even tho I haven't been there for 8 years now ? And what if my program director is no longer the program director there ? I would appreciate your input if anyone has some insight. Thanks again and good luck to everyone !
 
dkc389 said:
Hey everyone. I finished residency in 2010 and have now sent in my applications for a pain fellowship. I've noticed a few of the programs I applied to require one of the letters of recc to be from my program director. Do you guys know if in my situation , they still want a letter from my Program Director from residency even tho I haven't been there for 8 years now ? And what if my program director is no longer the program director there ? I would appreciate your input if anyone has some insight. Thanks again and good luck to everyone !
Click to expand...
I would just email the program coordinator and ask them. I imagine every program may be different. You could say, "Since it's been a while since I've been in residency, do you still want a letter from my program director? Would a letter from the chair of the anesthesia department of my current job be more useful?"
Or something like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
dkc389 said:
Hey everyone. I finished residency in 2010 and have now sent in my applications for a pain fellowship. I've noticed a few of the programs I applied to require one of the letters of recc to be from my program director. Do you guys know if in my situation , they still want a letter from my Program Director from residency even tho I haven't been there for 8 years now ? And what if my program director is no longer the program director there ? I would appreciate your input if anyone has some insight. Thanks again and good
dkc389 said:
Hey everyone. I finished residency in 2010 and have now sent in my applications for a pain fellowship. I've noticed a few of the programs I applied to require one of the letters of recc to be from my program director. Do you guys know if in my situation , they still want a letter from my Program Director from residency even tho I haven't been there for 8 years now ? And what if my program director is no longer the program director there ? I would appreciate your input if anyone has some insight. Thanks again and good luck to everyone !
Click to expand...

So, I’m in pretty much your situation. I graduated from an anesthesia residency program back in 2011. My chairman and my residency director both changed. I’m a little lucky. The new chairman was my residency director and the new residency director was a year ahead of me in training and a good friend. I talked to both of them as well as the pain fellowship director at my old institution. They pretty much told me it’s good idea to have one or both a chairman and a residency director LOR. I mean, most programs allow a max of four LOR for their application. You can always shine and show how great you have been after residency in those other two LOR. What I did was had the president of my private anesthesia group write me a LOR as well as a chronic pain management doc in our pain wing of the group wrote me one as well for a grand total of four. I figured that should cover it. IMO and long story short, get the chairman and director LOR.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Well.... I have emailed the programs requesting a letter of recc from my program director. And the consensus is that they all still want it despite me finishing residency in 2010 (eight years ago). The problem is that I already have sent 4 letters of recc to all the programs Im applying to: 1 from a cardiothoracic surgeon, 1 from a pain doc, 1 from a fellow anesthesiologist, and 1 from my director of our anesthesia group currently. Now Im going to have to send a 5th letter of recc to these programs from my past Program Director......... what do u guys think? did I just hose myself by sending 5 letters of recc?
 
Hi everyone. How many of you have already completed residency and are now applying after having been in private practice for great than a few years? I count three thus far. I myself finished in 2012. I wonder what proportion of the applications make up atypical applicants like myself?
 
dkc389 said:
Well.... I have emailed the programs requesting a letter of recc from my program director. And the consensus is that they all still want it despite me finishing residency in 2010 (eight years ago). The problem is that I already have sent 4 letters of recc to all the programs Im applying to: 1 from a cardiothoracic surgeon, 1 from a pain doc, 1 from a fellow anesthesiologist, and 1 from my director of our anesthesia group currently. Now Im going to have to send a 5th letter of recc to these programs from my past Program Director......... what do u guys think? did I just hose myself by sending 5 letters of recc?
Click to expand...
 
I don’t think you messed up bud. It’s just going to be a pain getting that fifth LOR out. I might be mistaken but I thought the ERAS website only let you send 4 LOR out per program. I think in the end of it all you will be fine.
 
Created a new account for no reason... but I am updating (bolded) what I got for past 3 weeks or so (I submitted/completed my app around mid Feb). I can tell you that there ARE second or more rounds of invite for these programs, so I imagine it would be the same for the others. Again, still WAY.. too early in the game.

1. Albany (1/31, 2/22) - 5/4, 5/11 (same dates)
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7, 3/6) - 5/7, 6/8
4. Emory (2/27) - 3/31, 4/14
 
Hi guys, sorry if this question has been asked before. I submitted my application mid Feb but havent heard anything. All I see on eras is that the application was submitted and all documents are available to the programs. Is there a way to check if they have reviewed my file and if they received all the required doc? Thank you.
 
1. Albany (1/31, 2/22) - 5/4, 5/11 (same dates)
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7, 3/6) - 5/7, 6/8
4. Emory (2/27) - 3/31, 4/14
5. Duke (3/9) - 4/21, 6/2, 6/16
 
afob100 said:
1. Albany (1/31, 2/22) - 5/4, 5/11 (same dates)
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7, 3/6) - 5/7, 6/8
4. Emory (2/27) - 3/31, 4/14
5. Duke (3/9) - 4/21, 6/2, 6/16
Click to expand...
 
1. Albany (1/31, 2/22) - 5/4, 5/11
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7, 3/6) - 5/7, 6/8
4. Emory (2/27) - 3/31, 4/14
5. Duke (3/9) - 4/21, 6/2, 6/16
6. UCSD (3/13) - 5/22 and June dates
 
For those of you who are getting interviews, when did you submit the app?
 
No longer lurking. Hello all, good luck! (P.s. Anes trained, submitted 3/1, no invites yet)
 
anyone have any updated info on UCSD? re: middle/upper tier? good # of procedures?
 
1. Albany (1/31, 2/22) - 5/4, 5/11
2. University of New Mexico (2/1) - 4/20, 5/11
3. Dartmouth Hitchcock (2/7, 3/6) - 5/7, 6/8
4. Baystate (2/12) -6/28, 8/16, 8/30
5. Emory (2/27) - 3/31, 4/14
6. Duke (3/9) - 4/21, 6/2, 6/16
7. UCSD (3/13) - 5/22 and June dates
8. U of Utah (3/19) - 4/20, 5/4, 5/11, 6/8
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

S
Pain fellowship 2025-2026
Replies
1
Views
393
PainDoc2025
P
S
Apply to pain fellowship in McGill university?
Replies
1
Views
361
Doctodd
D
N
Pain fellowship match results
Replies
23
Views
3K
oreosandsake
oreosandsake
drusso
Fellowships Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel: Implications for Pain?
Replies
35
Views
2K
GlowInTheDark
GlowInTheDark
pinstriped1992
PM&R Pain Salaries
2 3
Replies
116
Views
10K
drusso
drusso
Top