[2018-2019] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[TheHoundAndTheMountain]

Is 4 the maximum number of letters you can send to programs? Should only one non-SLOE be sent if this is the case?

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[Dr Turkelton]

I was VP of my school's chapter of Physicians for a National Health program. After reading the recent thread about single payer on this forum I'm realizing that this might be off putting to quite a few physicians...Would you guys recommend leaving it off?

 

[surely]

Is 4 the maximum number of letters you can send to programs? Should only one non-SLOE be sent if this is the case?

4 is the most you can send, yes. It's smart to leave room for your SLOEs.

 

[TheHoundAndTheMountain]

4 is the most you can send, yes. It's smart to leave room for your SLOEs.

Is this an ERAS standard or is this program dependent?

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Is this an ERAS standard or is this program dependent?

ERAS standard


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[gamerEMdoc]

Is 4 the maximum number of letters you can send to programs? Should only one non-SLOE be sent if this is the case?

You are allowed to submit up to 4. You don't have to submit 4. Most programs care mainly about SLOEs and the other letters really don't make a huge amount of difference unless there is something really exceptional about them. Submit 2-3 SLOEs. If you have another regular letter you think will be great, add that. If you don't, don't sweat it.

 

[Keladry]

I was VP of my school's chapter of Physicians for a National Health program. After reading the recent thread about single payer on this forum I'm realizing that this might be off putting to quite a few physicians...Would you guys recommend leaving it off?

Include the things you care about. My app demonstrated my involvement with various advocacy groups/social justice movements that mattered to me, don't think it affected where I got invites (though I did apply mostly to the coasts/big cities because that's where I wanted to live anyhow). Discussed it with many interviewers who viewed it positively, had 1 polite but pretty spirited debate with an interviewer who challenged me on a couple things but we had a really fantastic discussion - I googled the interviewer afterwards, who based on social media is about as liberal as I am, just wanted to have some fun with the conversation. It's always a risk, but for me personally, I wanted to be in a program with like-minded people who also want to be engaged with the topics that are important to me.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I take all the opinions of everyone as a collective. There's always going to be people that rate everyone too highly, or who are overly critical. You will never please everyone. In general, its all about the collective body of your work on rotation, not one shift. Unless you do something egregious on shift that shows a major flaw in your personality or judgement.

 

[AthleteDoc7]

When you say "complete right away" I'm not sure what you are referring to. Having 2 regular LORs doesn't make your application complete. Submit with one SLOE, one regular LOR, and then add the other two SLOEs as they come in.

complete right away meaning I’d have 2 regular LORs and 1 SLOE on day 1, giving me the three needed to be marked complete (as far as i understand). if i do the 1 LOR and 1 SLOE on day one, then I won’t be complete until my second SLOE comes in which could be anytime in the first couple weeks of October, so I may miss the train on the early invites from programs

 

[gamerEMdoc]

complete right away meaning I’d have 2 regular LORs and 1 SLOE on day 1, giving me the three needed to be marked complete (as far as i understand). if i do the 1 LOR and 1 SLOE on day one, then I won’t be complete until my second SLOE comes in which could be anytime in the first couple weeks of October, so I may miss the train on the early invites from programs

I'm not on the student side of ERAS, so I didn't realize an application becomes "complete" once there are 3 letters. If so, that's a stupid designation. I would not waste one of your letter spots with a regular LOR if you have a SLOE coming in later for that slot. If you are only going to get 2 SLOEs, fine then submit 2 regular LORs. But if you are going to have 3 SLOEs, then only submit one regular LOR.

 

[decgra]

Weird qn, but how long are SLOE's generally valid for? If I get one this year, can I use the same for the 2020 and the 2021 match too? (considering a break for academic/research pursuits) @gamerEMdoc

 

[surely]

I'm not on the student side of ERAS, so I didn't realize an application becomes "complete" once there are 3 letters. If so, that's a stupid designation. I would not waste one of your letter spots with a regular LOR if you have a SLOE coming in later for that slot. If you are only going to get 2 SLOEs, fine then submit 2 regular LORs. But if you are going to have 3 SLOEs, then only submit one regular LOR.

There's no "complete" designation when it comes to ERAS or residency. The idea of being "complete" is a carryover from the med school application process, where programs wouldn't look at your application until you had met certain criteria, like having sufficient LORs. From your response, are we to infer that programs don't filter their ERAS dashboard by number of available LORs to exclude those who only have 1 or 2?

 

[AthleteDoc7]

There's no "complete" designation when it comes to ERAS or residency. The idea of being "complete" is a carryover from the med school application process, where programs wouldn't look at your application until you had met certain criteria, like having sufficient LORs. From your response, are we to infer that programs don't filter their ERAS dashboard by number of available LORs to exclude those who only have 1 or 2?

Are you sure about that? My academic deans have been advising us to submit 2 regular LORs with 1 SLOE in order to be complete on the day of submission. Wouldn’t make sense for them to do that if that weren’t the case?

 

[AthleteDoc7]

I'm not on the student side of ERAS, so I didn't realize an application becomes "complete" once there are 3 letters. If so, that's a stupid designation. I would not waste one of your letter spots with a regular LOR if you have a SLOE coming in later for that slot. If you are only going to get 2 SLOEs, fine then submit 2 regular LORs. But if you are going to have 3 SLOEs, then only submit one regular LOR.

I appreciate the advice, as usual, thank you. It’s weird because my school is advising 2 regular LORs for this exact reason, so I’ve been pretty torn because I want to follow your advice. Guess i’ll continue inquiring, but leaning towards your opinion.

 

[theSmurfette]

I appreciate the advice, as usual, thank you. It’s weird because my school is advising 2 regular LORs for this exact reason, so I’ve been pretty torn because I want to follow your advice. Guess i’ll continue inquiring, but leaning towards your opinion.

No other specialty has SLOE’s nor a virtually required away rotation. So their advice is valid for every other specialty but ours.


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[gamerEMdoc]

Weird qn, but how long are SLOE's generally valid for? If I get one this year, can I use the same for the 2020 and the 2021 match too? (considering a break for academic/research pursuits) @gamerEMdoc

Students usually request an updated SLOE from the original site, who usually just resubmits it, sometimes with a caveat that it was based on data from the previous year.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Are you sure about that? My academic deans have been advising us to submit 2 regular LORs with 1 SLOE in order to be complete on the day of submission. Wouldn’t make sense for them to do that if that weren’t the case?

I appreciate the advice, as usual, thank you. It’s weird because my school is advising 2 regular LORs for this exact reason, so I’ve been pretty torn because I want to follow your advice. Guess i’ll continue inquiring, but leaning towards your opinion.

I mean, by all means, you can take their advice. In the end, you'll still have two SLOEs. But I suspect they are not academic EM people telling you this. Therefore, I doubt they have any clue what makes a competitive EM application, and are probably giving generalized advice. But like I said, it won't hurt you to take their advice, you'll still be able to submit 2 SLOEs if you submit 2 regular letters. You just won't be able to have room for your third SLOE should you get one.

No other specialty has SLOE’s nor a virtually required away rotation. So their advice is valid for every other specialty but ours.

Yep

 

[afutureDO]

Hi all,

Quick question. I will have 2 SLOEs completed by Sep. 15, but will be doing 2 more EM rotations over the next two blocks. I am not sure if my 3rd SLOE will be in by October 1st, so I was thinking of submitting a non EM letter to have my application complete. However, that would mean I can't submit a 4th SLOE. Does it make more sense to wait for the 3rd SLOE or submit the non EM letter and not submit the 4th SLOE?

Thanks!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thats a matter of personal preference but I can tell you that no program expects 4 sloes. Almost no programs really expect more than 2, but a third can be helpful if the fist two dont agree with eachother. After three sloes, it’s unlikely that a fourth one is going to really add much. And regular letters of recommendation really don’t add much. So I don’t think it really matters what you do there.

 

[afutureDO]

Gotcha. Will most programs send invites even if you only have two letters in? I'm just trying to gauge if I need 3 letters submitted by October 1st. Thanks!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Gotcha. Will most programs send invites even if you only have two letters in? I'm just trying to gauge if I need 3 letters submitted by October 1st. Thanks!

No, most programs do not expect you to have 3 SlOes by mid September. Thats unrealistic. Most programs realize you only may have one by that point.

 

[surely]

Since programs do not send out interview invites until October, is there a disadvantage in adding programs a week after September 15? My advisor meeting is unfortunately scheduled a week after September 15, so if he had any advice, it would be done only after my application was submitted.

Maybe a minor one? Programs may wonder why you added them late. Just because invites are sent out in October doesn't mean programs aren't immediately reviewing applications on September 15.

 

[borderlineinCle]

trying to figure out a day of the week in October to schedule my MD thesis defense (my due date for my program).

It seems like the bulk of the interview invites go out during October, and some places even start interviewing in October.

Any suggestions on which day of the week / which week in October would be a safe bet for defending my thesis so I don’t miss out on both checking my email for interview invites or any potential interview days in October?

Greatly appreciate any advice!

 

[surely]

trying to figure out a day of the week in October to schedule my MD thesis defense (my due date for my program).

It seems like the bulk of the interview invites go out during October, and some places even start interviewing in October.

Any suggestions on which day of the week / which week in October would be a safe bet for defending my thesis so I don’t miss out on both checking my email for interview invites or any potential interview days in October?

Greatly appreciate any advice!

ACEP is being held at a different time this year, so things may get moved around a bit, but...
Last year, most started coming out October 11. If you could schedule your thesis defense for the first week of October, that would work the best. Even better would be if you could get a friend to monitor your email and field any invites that happened to come in during that time. As far as interviews that actually take place in October - you'll have other dates to choose from if you're getting an offer that early, so there's no need to worry.

 

[borderlineinCle]

ACEP is being held at a different time this year, so things may get moved around a bit, but...
Last year, most started coming out October 11. If you could schedule your thesis defense for the first week of October, that would work the best. Even better would be if you could get a friend to monitor your email and field any invites that happened to come in during that time. As far as interviews that actually take place in October - you'll have other dates to choose from if you're getting an offer that early, so there's no need to worry.

Thanks! I’m going to shoot for an early Monday morning or early Friday morning thesis defense in October hopefully early and have my fiancée on my computer during it


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[Jmae24]

2 Questions:

I got a B+ for my first away, is that considered a high pass or honors?

The program said that they won't have my SLOE ready until a few days after September 15th. My other away was in August, and they said they should be able to get it finished right around the time the applications open.

Will I not be able to submit on September 15 if both institutions do not have their letters available by then? Should I still submit if only have one letter available?

 

[surely]

2 Questions:

I got a B+ for my first away, is that considered a high pass or honors?

The program said that they won't have my SLOE ready until a few days after September 15th. My other away was in August, and they said they should be able to get it finished right around the time the applications open.

Will I not be able to submit on September 15 if both institutions do not have their letters available by then? Should I still submit if only have one letter available?

Probably a high pass, but high pass vs honors doesn't tell you much about whether you're in top, middle, or bottom third categories on the SLOE. High pass might be top third, honors might be middle third, in other words.

You should 100% still submit on September 15 and then add the SLOE once it's available!

 

[emDOapplicant]

DO student applying EM with low COMLEX level 1 score, could use some help.

Step 1: Did not take

Step 2: 233

Level 1: 445

Level 2: 625

Currently on my second away rotation, waiting for my SLOE from my 1st away rotation-- no idea how this SLOE will look, but I felt like I made a good impression. Planning to apply to lots of programs with be safe 80+. And possibly contacting programs once October-Nov hits so they can possibly look at my app if they weeded me about based on COMLEX Level 1 scores.


Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[PowerfulDRE]

I haven't decided for sure but I would certainly prefer to go minimal in regards to number of programs. Somewhere in the 20s. I'm a competitive applicant stats/grades wise. Not applying to crazy competitive programs/locations exclusively (though a couple programs are). The anxiety provoking part is just not knowing with SLOEs. I can't think of any reason they would be poor, but hard to know the difference between solid and great. Another thing I'm thinking about is there is definitely a top 12-15 programs for me (mainly due to location) so anything past that is just kind of stretching to protect against not matching. People who are more open I can understand how they would get sucked into applying to 50 programs.

Side note: Am I reading it correctly that NBME charges $80 dollars to send your score to ERAS? The audacity with some of this money grubbing never ceases to amaze.

The "not knowing" with sloes is huge for me too. I dont know why theyd be bad and I've gotten no bad feedback but you just never know. That and not knowing/having a preference is the exact way I'm getting sucked into applying to 50 programs.

 

[Anxietyfreak]

Hey guys, decided to apply to some DO programs however none of my SLOEs have been uploaded yet. Is it still cool to submit whatever I have now?

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Aloha folks! Joining the crowd here, best of luck to everyone in the upcoming ERAS/NRMP.

When a program is listed on ERAS as "OSTEOPATHIC RECOGNITION" does that mean the program only has AOA accreditation?

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Aloha folks! Joining the crowd here, best of luck to everyone in the upcoming ERAS/NRMP.

When a program is listed on ERAS as "OSTEOPATHIC RECOGNITION" does that mean the program only has AOA accreditation?

No, it means they are ACGME accredited and also applied for Osteopathic Recognition.

 

[Dr. Callie Torres]

my first 2 rotations (july and august) dont release SLOEs until October 1, am I screwed? Application is solid in all other areas

 

[WatchTheThrone]

Is there any point to applying to the same program through both aoa and acgme (they're listed under both on eras)?

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Is there any point to applying to the same program through both aoa and acgme (they're listed under both on eras)?

Which program?

 

[liveonthewater]

my first 2 rotations (july and august) dont release SLOEs until October 1, am I screwed? Application is solid in all other areas

From what I have heard, several EM programs wait until early October to submit SLOEs for every AI student that rotated with them from July-September so they can better answer the ranking questions on each individual SLOE.
One of the programs I rotated at specifically told us not expect it until October 1st at the earliest.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

From what I have heard, several EM programs wait until early October to submit SLOEs for every AI student that rotated with them from July-September so they can better answer the ranking questions on each individual SLOE.
One of the programs I rotated at specifically told us not expect it until October 1st at the earliest.

Correct. The majority of programs write "group SLOEs" and decide as a group how all the students rank against eachother. Generally that process means waiting until either the beginning of Sept or beginning of October, and comparing all the students thus far as one big group, then writing all the SLOEs after that.

 

[WatchTheThrone]

Which program?

Grandview, Freeman, merit health, St John medical center, Coney island, Nassau, Norman, Southwest medical center, cape fear, Southeastern, Aria, Lehigh, Garden city, Mercy health, Beaumont trenton are all listed under both.

 

[Sunna12]

Probably a high pass, but high pass vs honors doesn't tell you much about whether you're in top, middle, or bottom third categories on the SLOE. High pass might be top third, honors might be middle third, in other words.

I'm assuming the majority of applicants have honors in EM? If so, this would mean that many with honors would then receive the 1/3 middle ranking... unfortunately I received limited feedback on my away rotation and am not quite sure what to expect on my SLOE :/

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I'm assuming the majority of applicants have honors in EM? If so, this would mean that many with honors would then receive the 1/3 middle ranking... unfortunately I received limited feedback on my away rotation and am not quite sure what to expect on my SLOE :/

Depends on where you rotate, some places give out honors to 50% or more, some places give honors to less than 10% of their students.

 

[str8cashhomie]

I recently have done an EM rotation, love it, and working on my application to get it ready. However, I missed the SVI deadline and ERAS seems they won't grant me an extension. Also my second SLOE won't be in till oct/nov. Do I apply now with two LORs and send the 2 SLOEs in later and email programs about the SVI situation and why my app is incomplete or what is the best way to go about this? Thanks.

 

[Phil_Connors]

I recently have done an EM rotation, love it, and working on my application to get it ready. However, I missed the SVI deadline and ERAS seems they won't grant me an extension. Also my second SLOE won't be in till oct/nov. Do I apply now with two LORs and send the 2 SLOEs in later and email programs about the SVI situation and why my app is incomplete or what is the best way to go about this? Thanks.

Yes I would definitely recommend you go ahead and apply. I was in the exact same position last year, and it worked out. You should probably address why your application process is delayed somewhere in your personal statement, and be prepared to hustle for some interviews, ie you may want to go to ACEP and shake some hands or send out a few succinct and customized emails to PDs. Sending in a late SLOE is not as good as having everything in on time, but is a very legitimate reason to email an update to a program that you already applied to, and a chance to tack on a sentence about why you love them and how much you'd appreciate an interview. As for the SVI issue, I don't think it will matter to most programs as long as you're able to provide a good explanation for why you missed it - switching over from another field is reasonable; forgetting about the deadline not so much.

 

[tarsuc]

Do customized emails to PD's work?Arent they usually swamped by emails already, and wouldnt that be counter-intuitive?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do customized emails to PD's work?Arent they usually swamped by emails already, and wouldnt that be counter-intuitive?

Yes, they do. But don't email the PD, they may just delete it. I'd email the program coordinator, and they can forward it on to whoever reviews the applications if you meet whatever criteria the program is looking for. And don't start emailing right away, because it's likely these will get ignored. After the first round of interview invites, acceptance/rejections, etc... programs have a better idea of how many more interviews they need to fill after their initial filters sorted out the first wave. I'd say late Oct / early Nov would be the earliest I'd start emailing people.

 

[WatchTheThrone]

When is it appropriate for me to contact the SLOE writers about when my letters will get uploaded? I'm getting nervous that they forgot about me but I don't want to annoy them.

 

[Sunna12]

Yes, they do. But don't email the PD, they may just delete it. I'd email the program coordinator, and they can forward it on to whoever reviews the applications if you meet whatever criteria the program is looking for. And don't start emailing right away, because it's likely these will get ignored. After the first round of interview invites, acceptance/rejections, etc... programs have a better idea of how many more interviews they need to fill after their initial filters sorted out the first wave. I'd say late Oct / early Nov would be the earliest I'd start emailing people.

ERAS specifically tells us NOT to contact programs during the process when we submit our app- is there an actual rule regarding this that no one follows?

 

[Mat the coolcat]

Original west-coasterner here jw if there are anymore residencies besides this list that would take a non-rockstar DO with an overall good application.
Step 1: 230's, Step 2: 240's
Level 1: 600's, Level 2 580's
1 SLOE at home program, 2 at renowned MD residencies.

Here's my current list in CA:

Kaweah Health, Visalia
Kern medical, Bakersfield
UC Davis, Sacramento
Arrowhead, Colton
Desert Regional, Palm Springs
Kaiser permanente, San Diego
St. Joseph's, Stockton

Thought about throwing one out to UCSF as well...

Sorry for the double post, didn't see this thread til now. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated!

 

[Mat the coolcat]

4 is the most you can send, yes. It's smart to leave room for your SLOEs.

I had 2 PD's tell me "absolutely do not send me more than 3 letters. We're ER docs not medicine folk, we hate reading..."

 

[surely]

I had 2 PD's tell me "absolutely do not send me more than 3 letters. We're ER docs not medicine folk, we hate reading..."

I was told "send in every SLOE you have, and if you still have room, add in a non-SLOE letter from an EM doc who you've worked closely with. Worst case, they'll just skip that one."

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I had 2 PD's tell me "absolutely do not send me more than 3 letters. We're ER docs not medicine folk, we hate reading..."

I was told "send in every SLOE you have, and if you still have room, add in a non-SLOE letter from an EM doc who you've worked closely with. Worst case, they'll just skip that one."

Just goes to show you, there is no "perfect" way to apply. Every program has the things they like or don't like. You can't please everyone. Just play your best hand, there is no point in worrying about the finer points because I assure you, you'll never see a consensus on the exact details on what "programs want to see".