2018 VIRMP Match!

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I think the virmp website explains the process quite well. The above description of your #1 ranked spot as a "wasted" spot doesn't really make sense because the algorithm is designed to match you with the best program for you.

For example, if I rank Program X as #1, and Program Y as #2, and I do not get a spot at Program X, the algorithm will move down to my #2 ranked Program Y. If Program Y has ranked me high enough to obtain a spot I will get that spot regardless of where I put Program Y on my rank list. UNLESS I get matched to a program that I have ranked above Program Y.

Eg. I rank Program Y #1, Program Y ranks me #1/5
= I go to Program Y

I rank Program Y #9, Program Y ranks me #4/5. And I do not match to my #1-8
= I go to Program Y

That is why you should not rank a program high if YOU do not actually want to go there. The ranking process is ANONYMOUS from both sides, so it actually doesn't hurt your application (except $) to rank several of the top programs at the top of your list on the minute chance that you might match there. Therefore, as an applicant, all you have to do is rank the programs in your preferred order. The algorithm does the rest.
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Just as a follow up to the scenario,

I rank Program Y #9, Program Y ranks me #4/5. And I do not match to my #1-8
= I go to Program Y

In this case 100+ other applicants could have Program Y ranked ahead of me, but it doesn't matter because Program Y has ranked me within their limited spots (4/5). They think I am a good fit for the program and have given me a spot, I have ranked the program as a place I would like to go, therefore I get the spot.
 
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hygebeorht said:
Ugh. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard not to overthink it all.

This is worth a read, I think.
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That is a great resource, thank you for sharing - I read it when it came out.

The key in all of this discussion is that the examples I gave on my previous post (and on the website) are very specific. They cannot be taken and applied to the general population of applicants. The word "inadequate" is also being interpreted differently from what I intended, see below:

I ranked a program #1 even knowing there was basically zero chance of ranking there. This implies a degree of information that the majority of the applicants will not have for most programs. Looking back, it was an inadequate decision on my part because of the near zero chance of ranking there. That's simply my opinion on that very specific situation.

I also think that it is inadequate to rank a program you didn't visit as your first choice when it clearly says that they only rank people that have interviewed/visited - again very specific situation. It doesn't matter how much you want that program, you will never match there. That's why wasted is in quotation marks - from an algorithm perspective you don't start behind per se (as in when you enter the match with your #2 pick there are already positions taken because you made a poor choice). But your expectation is still to match there, right? Otherwise why did you still rank it so high?

One can also say that "who cares about the expectations" since the algorithm keeps matching applicants until there are no more possible matches (thus the open positions on match day). And that is ok as long as that applicant understands how unlikely (or impossible) it is to match there, and still wants to do it "just in case". It is important for applicants to be comfortable with his/her choices!


What I wrote basically serves to raise awareness of how important it is to obtain as much information about a certain program so you can decide if it is a good fit for you or not, set expectations correctly and make decisions from there. If you simply rank the top US schools because they are all amazing programs without even considering other factors, you will be very disappointed when you match with your #25 pick (or not match at all).



Bottom line, if one is to only evaluate one factor when ranking programs, you should rank programs in the order you prefer to match with because the algorithm always matches you with your highest pick (assuming they ranked you high enough - see previous posts if you're still unclear on this).

But everyone is different and will have specific preferences. Some applicants will stop at nothing until they match with their dream program (ranking very few programs for example), even if it takes multiple years to achieve it, while others simply want to match. Just like the paper that @hygebeorht shared says, some applicants would prefer to match with a program that is clearly very interested in them as long as that program is a good fit for them, and avoid the "gambling" on other positions that they would prefer by ranking that program as their #1 pick.

Hope this clarifies things a bit better. There is no right or wrong here, just different ways of looking at the same situation and a couple thousand (give or take) different applicants with different goals, perspectives and preferences.
 
VetMedSurvivalGuide said:
If you simply rank the top US schools because they are all amazing programs without even considering other factors, you will be very disappointed when you match with your #25 pick (or not match at all).
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Haha if only there were a #25 pick for my specialty...literally there are only 13 residency programs in the match in the country this year.
 
It's also worth mentioning that most of what I wrote applies to residencies.

For the internship match it is much less likely to have enough information to make some of the decisions I mentioned.
 
There is definitely some information to be had for internships though. My school has a policy of not taking their own students as interns, which they are explicit about. So that's a wasted choice - although I know one girl in my class who said she was ranking it anyway, even though we got an email that said "we won't take you as interns." Apparently her rationale was that she only wanted to live here or her home state, so those were the only two programs she's applying to....
 
meningealworm said:
There is definitely some information to be had for internships though. My school has a policy of not taking their own students as interns, which they are explicit about. So that's a wasted choice - although I know one girl in my class who said she was ranking it anyway, even though we got an email that said "we won't take you as interns." Apparently her rationale was that she only wanted to live here or her home state, so those were the only two programs she's applying to....
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There is no black and white rule that applies to every candidate going through the match. Everyone is different - seems like your classmate has decided that she'll try to match close to where she lives until she gets a position (at least for the time being), while other candidates just want to match somewhere.

I just posted on the blog regarding this subject - feel free to check it out here and share your thoughts!
 
Well, in this case, it IS pretty black and white - our school emailed the class and said "don't bother ranking us, because we won't consider our own students as interns (at least for small animal rotating)."
 
In that specific case yes. What I meant was that you can't apply that to every school because there are others that definitely take their own students.
 
Submitted my rank order list. Fingers crossed for February 12th. Best of success, everyone!
 
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Still finalizing mine! I keep going back and forth on my top 3. So many ridiculous pro/con lists!
 
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hey guys, does anyone have any contact information from current AMC interns that might be willing to answer any questions via e-mail?
 
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Have one last interview tomorrow and then finalizing my rank list.
 
hygebeorht said:
Especially for the most competitive specialties and internships, your #1 rank choice is the most important and powerful decision you make. If you rank popular programs lower, even at #2-5, they will likely already be filled by people who ranked them first by the time you're bumped lower.
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That's not how the algorithm works. If you don't match with your #1 choice, it does not decrease the chance that you will match with #2-5. The only time your #1 choice affects your lower rank choices is if you MATCH with your #1 choice.

Obviously people can use whatever strategy they want in creating their rank order list. I just worry that people reading this might think that if they alter their rank order list based on inside information their results will be more optimal than if they rank simply based on their preference as to where they want to go. And that's not the case. That's not a matter of opinion, it's mathematically proven.
 
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Fair enough. Rank has a way of making people (me) overthink it all way too much. Rank in the order of your preference and so long as everyone else does the same, it is designed to work out for the best.
 
Good luck in 15 minutes, everybody! I hope you get what you want.

For those who match way down their rank list, I personally know exactly that disappointment but I can 100% say it worked out the best for me and I loved my hospital even though it was my #17/20. It’s okay to be disappointed but things will work out.

For those that may not match, know that this doesn’t mean it’s the end of your dreams. You’re still great. Good luck in the scramble, and keep working towards your goal. Most people I know who took a few extra years still got where they wanted in the end.
 
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Didn’t match, went through the scramble, and ended up at my number one choice! Stressful morning but so worth it! I hope everyone got a great program that they wanted!
 
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I haven't had to do the match for 2 years and I still get stressed out thinking about it. I hope everyone is doing okay. If you didn't match or are disappointed with your match, I'm sorry. It's okay to be upset and angry and sad. But try to be happy for your friends who matched...they were stressed out too. And everything will be okay in the end. Find your place, plan your next move, then take care of yourself and do what you need to be okay with it. <3
 
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I’m so proud of everyone.

I scrambled this AM into a surgery internship I had not really looked at. I’m still not sure how it will be. And I am very disappointed in myself. I’m not ok, but will hopefully be so in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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Congrats to everyone!
nyanko said:
I haven't had to do the match for 2 years and I still get stressed out thinking about it.
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I haven't even done it yet and it stresses me out.
 
fromthebox said:
I’m so proud of everyone.

I scrambled this AM into a surgery internship I had not really looked at. I’m still not sure how it will be. And I am very disappointed in myself. I’m not ok, but will hopefully be so in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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I'm proud of you. Surgery internship isn't easy to get into either. I know it isn't what you wanted, but I hope it is fabulous and with you the best.
 
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fromthebox said:
I’m so proud of everyone.

I scrambled this AM into a surgery internship I had not really looked at. I’m still not sure how it will be. And I am very disappointed in myself. I’m not ok, but will hopefully be so in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

There is no reason to be disappointed in yourself. Really good applicants go unmatched every year. Look at my example - I didn't match for a residency the first year I applied. Not even for a specialty internship...

Did that mean I wasn't good enough? Not at all. The following year I matched and achieved board certification three years later. Transform that disappointment into "how can I become a better candidate next year". And this applies to everyone that didn't match or ended up in a program that they didn't want to begin with.

Make the best of the specialty internship (or the program you're going to be at next year) and keep an eye out for positions that might open outside the match in the meantime!
 
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Didn't match. I was devastated by the result and it was a very difficult day. There are several positions unmatched, and I have applied to these- excellent programs, very surprised that they didn't match with one of their candidates. The lab animal scramble takes a few days to complete (not finalized today, as with other specialties). Fingers crossed for a positive result.

To those who matched- AWESOME JOB! CONGRATULATIONS!!
To those who didn't match- Really difficult, I'm with you in that boat. Try very hard not to let the result of a computer algorithm define your self-worth or future contributions to your field of choice (I'm struggling with this myself). It's tough- hang in there.
 
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Lab Vet said:
Didn't match. I was devastated by the result and it was a very difficult day. There are several positions unmatched, and I have applied to these- excellent programs, very surprised that they didn't match with one of their candidates. The lab animal scramble takes a few days to complete (not finalized today, as with other specialties). Fingers crossed for a positive result.

To those who matched- AWESOME JOB! CONGRATULATIONS!!
To those who didn't match- Really difficult, I'm with you in that boat. Try very hard not to let the result of a computer algorithm define your self-worth or future contributions to your field of choice (I'm struggling with this myself). It's tough- hang in there.
Click to expand...
It's though to feel like "no one wanted you". Been there, done that. For everyone that didn't match, hang in there!! Like I said above, keep an eye on what might still be out there. An easy way to do so is to check in with your mentors to see if they know of any not as well advertised positions.
 
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Lab Vet said:
Didn't match. I was devastated by the result and it was a very difficult day. There are several positions unmatched, and I have applied to these- excellent programs, very surprised that they didn't match with one of their candidates. The lab animal scramble takes a few days to complete (not finalized today, as with other specialties). Fingers crossed for a positive result.

To those who matched- AWESOME JOB! CONGRATULATIONS!!
To those who didn't match- Really difficult, I'm with you in that boat. Try very hard not to let the result of a computer algorithm define your self-worth or future contributions to your field of choice (I'm struggling with this myself). It's tough- hang in there.
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Sorry to hear, but fingers crossed for the other positions! :xf:
 
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Lab Vet said:
Didn't match. I was devastated by the result and it was a very difficult day. There are several positions unmatched, and I have applied to these- excellent programs, very surprised that they didn't match with one of their candidates. The lab animal scramble takes a few days to complete (not finalized today, as with other specialties). Fingers crossed for a positive result.

To those who matched- AWESOME JOB! CONGRATULATIONS!!
To those who didn't match- Really difficult, I'm with you in that boat. Try very hard not to let the result of a computer algorithm define your self-worth or future contributions to your field of choice (I'm struggling with this myself). It's tough- hang in there.
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I didn't match either when I went for lab animal. I was contacted by two programs after the fact to interview and had (sadly) accepted a GP job at that point and felt I couldn't back out. Hindsight sucks :) I wish you the best in the next few days/weeks to come.
 
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Lab Vet said:
Didn't match. I was devastated by the result and it was a very difficult day. There are several positions unmatched, and I have applied to these- excellent programs, very surprised that they didn't match with one of their candidates. The lab animal scramble takes a few days to complete (not finalized today, as with other specialties). Fingers crossed for a positive result.

To those who matched- AWESOME JOB! CONGRATULATIONS!!
To those who didn't match- Really difficult, I'm with you in that boat. Try very hard not to let the result of a computer algorithm define your self-worth or future contributions to your field of choice (I'm struggling with this myself). It's tough- hang in there.
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I think residency scrambles tend to take a bit longer than internship ones (correlates with my n of 1 of each) - they're stuck with you for 3 years instead of just one, so they want to make a good choice. Good luck with it!
 
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If you didn't match, I promise it is not the end of the world. Take it as advice from a vet that didn't match the first time around. It all works out in the end and the scramble is not the end of your career path as you know it.

I didn't match when I was a senior. Took a rotating in the Scramble.

This year, I matched my top pick for an exotics internship. The match is screwy. Don't let it make you depressed and question your self worth.
 
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Holy moly. I don't have to do a second internship. I'm going to be a surgeon and I matched to my top choice. Still pretty much in shock.
 
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I didn't apply in the match....but I jumped head first into the scramble and just accepted a large animal internal medicine residency! :biglove:
 
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Thanks very much for your support, everyone. It has been tough, but I'm not out of the game quite yet. Hoping for a positive result.
 
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Lab Vet said:
Thanks very much for your support, everyone. It has been tough, but I'm not out of the game quite yet. Hoping for a positive result.
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Hang in there; wise words above. Even if doesn't happen this year, continue to persevere.
 
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Lab Vet said:
Thanks very much for your support, everyone. It has been tough, but I'm not out of the game quite yet. Hoping for a positive result.
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I was really surprised by the unmatched lab animal positions. They're excellent programs and so bizarre that a match didn't occur. Good luck in the lab animal scramble! I hope it works out.
 
Filly Bay said:
I didn't apply in the match....but I jumped head first into the scramble and just accepted a large animal internal medicine residency! :biglove:
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That's awesome! I had no idea that was even an option.
 
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For those of you that didn't match, the The Veterinary Specialty Hospital of San Diego by Ethos is currently seeking to fill an intern position. Check their program description and contact them if you're interested! Make sure to attach your match application summary.
 
I didn't match (oncology), but managed to scramble into my #1 specialty internship anyway. I'm not sure why they didn't match with anybody in the first place, but I won't question my good luck!
 
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Doktor Timo said:
I didn't match (oncology), but managed to scramble into my #1 specialty internship anyway. I'm not sure why they didn't match with anybody in the first place, but I won't question my good luck!
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Woohoo! Funny how life works out.
 
Yeah, residency scramble is a bit prolonged compared to internship scramble. Source: am scrambling

...gotta keep that chin up and keep hustling...
 
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hygebeorht said:
Yeah, residency scramble is a bit prolonged compared to internship scramble. Source: am scrambling

...gotta keep that chin up and keep hustling...
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Good luck! Fingers crossed and thinking happy thoughts for you :) It's really tough.
 
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