2019 Match Results

[2021Doctor]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Excellent EM matches. I think LA County/USC and cook county are two of the top programs in the country

Per national rankings top 3 EM programs are:
1. Indiana University School of Medicine (Indianapolis)
2. University of Cincinnati Medical Center/College
3. University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center
Top 3 residency programs for 10 specialties: Two residency programs stand out from the crowd: University of California, San Francisco places in the top 10 for 16 specialties, and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Md., is in the top 10 across 14 specialties, according to the first-ever comprehensive national evaluation of residency programs.

 

[Rekt]

Per national rankings top 3 EM programs are:
1. Indiana University School of Medicine (Indianapolis)
2. University of Cincinnati Medical Center/College
3. University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center
Top 3 residency programs for 10 specialties: Two residency programs stand out from the crowd: University of California, San Francisco places in the top 10 for 16 specialties, and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Md., is in the top 10 across 14 specialties, according to the first-ever comprehensive national evaluation of residency programs.

Indiana is most definitely not first, not even top 10.

I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying wait until next years match. It’s unlikely we are going to see any major change. We may get a glimpse of a starting trend (good or bad), but it will be years before we know the overall outcome for DOs in a combined match.

Please disregard this logical post and continue the prognostication based in non-scientific thought process and tomfoolery.

Right, except for the addition of hundreds of DO students to the match each year from the recent exponential increase in schools.

 

[bigindian4891]

Just like every year, I come on here to check out the match lists and stumble onto inane arguments on prestige and the doom and gloom.

 

[Ho0v-man]

My point was that equal consideration in the MD world is only made when DOs score much higher in the boards to their counterpart. In essence, this is not even mentioning acceptance but rather a chance to interview. The fact that some DO residency PDs do the same to the MD applicants is more valid in the sense that they don't have a comlex score from the MDs to compare with. I understand that the harvard grad is having the upper hand compared to the meharry grad but that wasn't my point.

If you understand the meherry/Harvard thing then you should understand why dos have to score higher than mds. No one cares about comlex. I’m about to take level 1 and I’m not even sure wat a good score is. It’s that unimportant.

 

[DNC127]

If you understand the meherry/Harvard thing then you should understand why dos have to score higher than mds. No one cares about comlex. I’m about to take level 1 and I’m not even sure wat a good score is. It’s that unimportant.

*unless applying to DO ortho / ENT programs

 

[Chibucks15]

If you came into DO school without coming to terms with the fact you will have a massive uphill battle to become some high-powered surgeon or things of that nature, and will most likely end up in some realm of primary care/middle competitive specialties, then that says more about you than it does about the system. Welcome to the world

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Sorry, I don't have time to read through 10 pages of match results... but can anyone tell me if there were some good DO matches in New England for EM this year? I know some are DO friendly (Baylor, one in RI, one in Worcester), but does anyone know of any good DO matches through Maine Medical Center or UVM or Dartmouth? (Northern New England?)

 

[Cath Up]

Rural Primary Care COM of TBD in Wyoming 2019 Match List

Fast stats:
Inaugural class size: 250 (thanks, COCA)
25% participation in the SOAP- our lowest ever!
92% placement rate (230) - that's an "A" in our books!

Anesthesia - 1
Dermatology - 0 (we are ethically opposed to derm)
EM - 1
ENT - 0
Family Medicine - 140
General surgery - 0
IM - 20
Meds-peds - 1
Neurosurgery - 0
Neurology - 0
Ob-gyn - 0
Orthopedic surgery - 1 (we begged this student not to take the USMLE STEP 1 but he scheduled it during a vacation month, tsk tsk)
Pathology - 0
Pediatrics - 5
PM&R - 1
Psychiatry - 0
Urology - 0
TYs - 60

Clinical Research Assistants - 20

 

[deleted407021]

Rural Primary Care COM of TBD in Wyoming 2019 Match List

Fast stats:
Inaugural class size: 250 (thanks, COCA)
25% participation in the SOAP- our lowest ever!
92% placement rate (230)

Anesthesia - 1
Dermatology - 0 (we are ethically opposed to derm)
EM - 1
ENT - 0
Family Medicine - 140
General surgery - 0
IM - 20
Meds-peds - 1
Neurosurgery - 0
Neurology - 0
Ob-gyn - 0
Orthopedic surgery - 1 (we begged this student not to take the USMLE STEP 1 but he scheduled it during a vacation month, tsk tsk)
Pathology - 0
Pediatrics - 5
PM&R - 1
Psychiatry - 0
Urology - 0
TYs - 60

Clinical Research Assistants - 20

You typed this whole thing out? Lol

 

[Osminog]

Rural Primary Care COM of TBD in Wyoming 2019 Match List

Fast stats:
Inaugural class size: 250 (thanks, COCA)
25% participation in the SOAP- our lowest ever!
92% placement rate (230)

Anesthesia - 1
Dermatology - 0 (we are ethically opposed to derm)
EM - 1
ENT - 0
Family Medicine - 140
General surgery - 0
IM - 20
Meds-peds - 1
Neurosurgery - 0
Neurology - 0
Ob-gyn - 0
Orthopedic surgery - 1 (we begged this student not to take the USMLE STEP 1 but he scheduled it during a vacation month, tsk tsk)
Pathology - 0
Pediatrics - 5
PM&R - 1
Psychiatry - 0
Urology - 0
TYs - 60

Clinical Research Assistants - 20

Wow, an orthopedic surgery match!!! Also, I heard that one of those IM matches is at a rural branch hospital of an elite program. DOs are doing so great! The sky isn't falling, guys!

 

[Stagg737]

I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying wait until next years match. It’s unlikely we are going to see any major change. We may get a glimpse of a starting trend (good or bad), but it will be years before we know the overall outcome for DOs in a combined match.

A large reason for the fear is that historically there has been a relatively large number of AOA TRI/transitional positions (~500), many of which will not be transferring to the ACGME match. So in the past DO students who didn't match could scramble into those programs and continue with their education and try and match into a full residency the following year. Next year that safety net will disappear which is where the fear of large drops in placement rates comes from. This is not something we will need to trend out, it will be immediately evident.

That being said, the NatMatch data for the AOA match this year shows that ~75% of DO students deferred from the AOA match, so most people have already transitioned over anyway. I'd guess that the majority of people who went through the AOA match this year were either poor applicants who did both AOA and ACGME or those trying to get into a competitive field like ortho or derm. People also seem to forget that the number of ACGME positions is expanding outside of the merger as well. So there are more spots being created on all fronts. So the issue really isn't that there's suddenly going to be less spots for DOs or even that MDs are going to steal a ton of previously DO only positions (true for some fields, but overall not likely to make much of an overall difference). As has been said before, the bigger issue is the expansion of new schools (both on the MD and DO side) without a large enough expansion of residency positions, though this is a separate but related issue.

AOA match data: AOA Match Statistics


Also, when a significant number of schools start putting out actual lists, I'll create an "On-topic" match thread so people can find actual match info more easily.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Rural Primary Care COM of TBD in Wyoming 2019 Match List

Fast stats:
Inaugural class size: 250 (thanks, COCA)
25% participation in the SOAP- our lowest ever!
92% placement rate (230)

Anesthesia - 1
Dermatology - 0 (we are ethically opposed to derm)
EM - 1
ENT - 0
Family Medicine - 140
General surgery - 0
IM - 20
Meds-peds - 1
Neurosurgery - 0
Neurology - 0
Ob-gyn - 0
Orthopedic surgery - 1 (we begged this student not to take the USMLE STEP 1 but he scheduled it during a vacation month, tsk tsk)
Pathology - 0
Pediatrics - 5
PM&R - 1
Psychiatry - 0
Urology - 0
TYs - 60

Clinical Research Assistants - 20

Wait a tic, we don't authorize anyone to take step 1, someone is getting fired. We have to see if we can get that spot annulled through manufacturing a match violation.

Also, how did someone get into EM or Anesthesia? Those rotations aren't allowed till March of 4th year after the mandatory 3 month empathy OMM, 3 month primary care selective, 1 month of Geriatric medicine, plus required FM and rural FM months in 4th year.

Also you forgot part of the title in clinical research assistant, its actually Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine Clinical Research Assistants. Publications are only allowed in JAOA on subjects related to primary care and/or OMM.

 

[Cath Up]

Wait a tic, we don't authorize anyone to take step 1, someone is getting fired. We have to see if we can get that spot annulled through manufacturing a match violation.

Also, how did someone get into EM or Anesthesia? Those rotations aren't allowed till March of 4th year after the mandatory 3 month empathy OMM, 3 month primary care selective, 1 month of Geriatric medicine, plus required FM and rural FM months in 4th year.

Sorry boss, I'll figure out who permitted that.

Clearly, you're my hero.

 

[Solodyn]

This is so dumb. Doesn’t matter if they are ex DO bc they are acgme now. What matte is DMU just pumped out 4 derm matches which is consistent, actually higher, that previous years. The fact ex DO programs are matching mostly DO is a GOOD thing and should be the thing to take away from this. My school match as many derm this year as it had total in the last 6 years.

Really? The issue here is that ex-DO Programs are not likely to match mostly DO in the near future. DOs are NOT getting into MD derms programs That is the point. The writing is on the wall. Of course you wouldn't care less since you are to going for derm. Don't throw around some numbers as if you know what you are talking about. You are not an insider.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Don't throw around some numbers as if you know what you are talking about. You are not an insider.

 

[Solodyn]

Genuinely curious question here: What’s stopping you guys from not taking MD applicants if you’re so concerned about this? I don’t think it would be fair to do that, but that doesn’t stop the MD side from doing the same so what’s the issue?

That is a fair question. Only way we can preserve DO positions is to get "osteopathic recognition" and have dedicated osteopathic positions. Even those positions can be obtained by MDs if they attended some weekend OMM course.

As any derm program, we cannot discriminate based on degrees. (No one will officially admit it) That will land us in all sorts of lawsuits. Therefore if there are comparable credentialed 10 MDs and 2 DOs applicants, but a program take DOs year after year, we can be sued by disgruntle MD applicants for discrimination. I know some of you may think it is not a realistic scenario, but it has happened before. There was a DO derm program director 15 years ago got investigated by the DO Derm College because a disgruntle female applicant complained that program took only male residents.

As for MD programs, there are always more MDs than DOs in significant number. All they have to say is that they picked the most qualified candidates. And they all happened to be MDs. This is much more defensible than the other way around.

Out of all the ex-DO derm programs transitioned to ACGME, only 2 thus far obtained osteopathic recognition that I know of. I cannot speak for other competitive specialties like ortho, but I suspect similar scenario is playing out.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

If you came into DO school without coming to terms with the fact you will have a massive uphill battle to become some high-powered surgeon or things of that nature, and will most likely end up in some realm of primary care/middle competitive specialties, then that says more about you than it does about the system. Welcome to the world

Let us be real, most DO students did not go DO because we wanted to. Unforeseen circumstances derail even the most well intentioned plans. But, my goal is to work as hard as I can to be the best doctor I can be. Do I want to be a top notch surgeon, absolutely, but elite programs don’t necessarily confer that. All they allow are unprecedented opportunities. I came into DO school with the same mentality I would have in a MD program, work hard/be the best you can for your pt.s/pray for mirical opportunities.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

That is a fair question. Only way we can preserve DO positions is to get "osteopathic recognition" and have dedicated osteopathic positions. Even those positions can be obtained by MDs if they attended some weekend OMM course.

As any derm program, we cannot discriminate based on degrees. (No one will officially admit it) That will land us in all sorts of lawsuits. Therefore if there are comparable credentialed 10 MDs and 2 DOs applicants, but a program take DOs year after year, we can be sued by disgruntle MD applicants for discrimination. I know some of you may think it is not a realistic scenario, but it has happened before. There was a DO derm program director 15 years ago got investigated by the DO Derm College because a disgruntle female applicant complained that program took only male residents.

As for MD programs, there are always more MDs than DOs in significant number. All they have to say is that they picked the most qualified candidates. And they all happened to be MDs. This is much more defensible than the other way around.

Out of all the ex-DO derm programs transitioned to ACGME, only 2 thus far obtained osteopathic recognition that I know of. I cannot speak for other competitive specialties like ortho, but I suspect similar scenario is playing out.

With the huge increase in DO graduate don't you think its becoming less defensiable on the MD side (i.e. the best applicant claim), and more defensible on ours to take DO's tho? We are already 33% of US Seniors.

Also, why can't you just filter by ridiculous USMLE's, like programs are doing to COMLEX (i.e. requiring a 270 for USMLE but a 550 or whatever for COMLEX)?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Is this a contemporary Rembrandt? ; )

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

As any derm program, we cannot discriminate based on degrees.

Was this changed by the merger? Seems like residency programs currently do this pretty openly and have for some time? Doesn't seem like any program needs to require special training to avoid not reviewing a specific type of applicant. DO isn't a protected category of people, unlike sex.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Also, why can't you just filter by ridiculous USMLE's, like programs are doing to COMLEX (i.e. requiring a 270 for USMLE but a 550 or whatever for COMLEX)?

Wondering this as well. An ob/gyn program in my home state requires a minimum 200 step 1 to apply but a 725 COMLEX. They might as well just say “no DOs apply”.

 

[hallowmann]

...We are already 33% of US Seniors...

Not yet. Its actually staying pretty stable around 25%. Maybe it'll change in a decade or so, but not right now.

MDs and DOs
1st yr Matriculants - 2017-2018: 21326 and 7197 - 25.2%
Graduates - in 2018: 19553 and 6644 - 25.4%

 

[Chibucks15]

Let us be real, most DO students did not go DO because we wanted to. Unforeseen circumstances derail even the most well intentioned plans. But, my goal is to work as hard as I can to be the best doctor I can be. Do I want to be a top notch surgeon, absolutely, but elite programs don’t necessarily confer that. All they allow are unprecedented opportunities. I came into DO school with the same mentality I would have in a MD program, work hard/be the best you can for your pt.s/pray for mirical opportunities.

well yeah nobody is denying that most of us aren't here by choice. But at the same time, you had the option to take another gap year and get grades/research/whatever else and go MD.

If you went through with DO, and I'm in this boat too, you kinda should know any dreams of super prestige are gone. Kinda how if you find yourself bottom quartile after 3/4 of first year, gonna be real hard to make ground and match Derm

 

[anon6134]

This thread has gotten so out of hand I haven't had the patience to read the last two pages. I would bet that 90% of the comments in that space are from 3rd years and below discussing things they have no context for and no experience with. I used to read these threads every year hoping to gain some insight and judge the programs and specialties I might have a chance at so I do think these threads have utility, but this is not it.

I just matched into my top program two weeks ago. I had top scores from a well known school. I applied to top to middle tier programs in a moderately competitive specialty. I have 90 percentile step scores, life experiences that make me more competitive, and great LOR's from reputable people in the field. Predictably, I got denied from the top programs who have no DO's and I matched at a university program that has been around for a long time in the place I wanted to be. I expected this and I can live just fine with that fact. I probably did not match at a program all of you would gawk at on this thread and in fact I ranked places you guys would gawk at higher on my list than where I actually matched. Had I failed to match at my first choice you guys would see it and think it was the greatest thing of all time. I didn't apply ortho, ENT, uro, derm even though I have step scores that are the average for those specialties and comlex scores above the average for them. My classmates with scores better than mine matched into anesthesia, IM, EM, and rads in locations they wanted to end up. I have no doubt they could have ended up at "more impressive" places but thats not what they wanted to do. People matched uro and ortho with alright scores because that's what they wanted to do.

If you have below average scores then yea you have a below average chance to match because you don't likely have a home program that likes you as a person like nearly every below average MD student has. As a DO you are at a disadvantage because you are missing a crucial connection into residency that nearly every MD student in the country has. That is no secret and just a fact of life. Anecdotally my school didn't even call people until Wednesday and Thursday of the SOAP and when they finally did, they literally are so out of their element that they probably do more harm than good. This all adds up to the fact that as a DO you are at a disadvantage unless you have your own connections.

As a DO you need to know the rules of the game before you play because you don't have the background support to just wing it.

 

[deleted407021]

I matched at a university program that has been around for a long time in the place I wanted to be. I expected this and I can live just fine with that fact. I probably did not match at a program all of you would gawk at on this thread and in fact I ranked places you guys would gawk at higher on my list than where I actually matched.

This point is really important for everyone to keep in mind. Congrats on your success and good luck!

 

[SLC]

That is a fair question. Only way we can preserve DO positions is to get "osteopathic recognition" and have dedicated osteopathic positions. Even those positions can be obtained by MDs if they attended some weekend OMM course.

As any derm program, we cannot discriminate based on degrees. (No one will officially admit it) That will land us in all sorts of lawsuits. Therefore if there are comparable credentialed 10 MDs and 2 DOs applicants, but a program take DOs year after year, we can be sued by disgruntle MD applicants for discrimination. I know some of you may think it is not a realistic scenario, but it has happened before. There was a DO derm program director 15 years ago got investigated by the DO Derm College because a disgruntle female applicant complained that program took only male residents.

As for MD programs, there are always more MDs than DOs in significant number. All they have to say is that they picked the most qualified candidates. And they all happened to be MDs. This is much more defensible than the other way around.

Out of all the ex-DO derm programs transitioned to ACGME, only 2 thus far obtained osteopathic recognition that I know of. I cannot speak for other competitive specialties like ortho, but I suspect similar scenario is playing out.

No judge will hear a case of discrimination based on Degree (MD or DO); your medical credentials do not confer protected status.

My brother couldn’t get a job with Bain Capital after his MBA, they only take people from certain programs, they won’t even interview him and it’s no secret. He doesn’t have a discrimination case either, difference is, he knows it.

NYU internal medicine doesn’t interview DO’s, says right in their website. Are they just asking for a discrimination suit? You think they don’t already know this isn’t a lawsuit risk for them?

The case of a woman suing for perceived discrimination based on gender...that’s different, gender is a legally protected trait.

This was a very ill informed post.

 

[eberge3]

DMU:
2 Vascular Surg ( Cleveland Clinic/ U Mass )
3 Uro (one at Michigan University)
7 Ortho
2 ENT
1 Optho

Bias or No Bias ill take those results anyday

 

[You shall know the Truth]

DMU:
2 Vascular Surg ( Cleveland Clinic/ U Mass )
3 Uro (one at Michigan University)
7 Ortho
2 ENT
1 Optho

Bias or No Bias ill take those results anyday

I agree, especially the Vascular matches.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Rural Primary Care COM of TBD in Wyoming 2019 Match List

Fast stats:
Inaugural class size: 250 (thanks, COCA)
25% participation in the SOAP- our lowest ever!
92% placement rate (230) - that's an "A" in our books!

Anesthesia - 1
Dermatology - 0 (we are ethically opposed to derm)
EM - 1
ENT - 0
Family Medicine - 140
General surgery - 0
IM - 20
Meds-peds - 1
Neurosurgery - 0
Neurology - 0
Ob-gyn - 0
Orthopedic surgery - 1 (we begged this student not to take the USMLE STEP 1 but he scheduled it during a vacation month, tsk tsk)
Pathology - 0
Pediatrics - 5
PM&R - 1
Psychiatry - 0
Urology - 0
TYs - 60

Clinical Research Assistants - 20

Damn that's good. Well-done sir

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Wondering this as well. An ob/gyn program in my home state requires a minimum 200 step 1 to apply but a 725 COMLEX. They might as well just say “no DOs apply”.

Orrrrr they might as well say hey you're a DO take the GD usmle.

 

[OwurayawMD]

Read thru 2 pages of Nada. Please give us some stats. Atsu KCOM. Please ????

 

[Azmkv]

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

 

[DrRedstone]

You are not quoting US Seniors, as I quoted in my other thread: Allopathic Seniors + Osteopathic seniors = 18,925 + 6876 = 25,801
We are 36% of US Seniors already.

It's been a while since I've taken a math class. Can someone check my math? I'm not getting the same numbers.

18,925 / 25,801 = 73.35%
6,876 / 25,801 = 26.65%
Ratio 18,925:6,876 ~ 3:1

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

I know the plastics match at CC had a publication in a top plastics journal and was actually featured on the cover of the journal.

 

[Azmkv]

I know the plastics match at CC had a publication in a top plastics journal and was actually featured on the cover of the journal.

Damm

 

[hallowmann]

You are not quoting US Seniors, as I quoted in my other thread: Allopathic Seniors + Osteopathic seniors = 18,925 + 6876 = 25,801
We are 36% of US Seniors already.

I don't know where you are getting your matriculant data, but that is off as well.
Source:Press Release: Thousands of Resident Physician Applicants Celebrate NRMP Match Results - The Match, National Resident Matching Program

You are mistaken. You are using the NRMP match data, I am using actual school association reports.

AAMC: https://www.aamc.org/download/321532/data/factstableb2-2.pdf
You can see that the US MD graduates from 2018 is the number I quoted (19,553).

AACOM: https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...r_re_longitudinal18.pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=ae5e3c97_6
Actually, you're right, there was a mistake, the 2018 DO graduates number is actually less than I thought, it's 6416 (not the 6644 I quoted).

So again:
19553 + 6416 = 25969
6416/25969 = 24.7%

We don't have real numbers yet for class of 2019, but as you can see by the matriculant numbers I quoted (those were also from AAMC and AACOM reports), even classes that entered in 2017 had DO percentages ~25%, so there's no way current seniors are 33%.

It's been a while since I've taken a math class. Can someone check my math? I'm not getting the same numbers.

18,925 / 25,801 = 73.35%
6,876 / 25,801 = 26.65%
Ratio 18,925:6,876 ~ 3:1

Yes, your math is correct, but those numbers are not.

 

[Osminog]

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

The DOs who match into top residency programs strictly because of their connections (e.g., hospital administrators or big-shot physicians in the family) generally won't admit it. Nobody wants to be thought of as the person whose success is solely owed to nepotism or exceptional circumstances that have nothing to do with academic merit. That's one of the major reasons why looking at DO school match lists is an exercise in futility. A residency program's decision to take a DO isn't necessarily predictive of future DO prospects at said program, since there are so many invisible non-meritocratic factors that influence the competitiveness of individual applicants.

 

[Stagg737]

That is a fair question. Only way we can preserve DO positions is to get "osteopathic recognition" and have dedicated osteopathic positions. Even those positions can be obtained by MDs if they attended some weekend OMM course.

As any derm program, we cannot discriminate based on degrees. (No one will officially admit it) That will land us in all sorts of lawsuits. Therefore if there are comparable credentialed 10 MDs and 2 DOs applicants, but a program take DOs year after year, we can be sued by disgruntle MD applicants for discrimination. I know some of you may think it is not a realistic scenario, but it has happened before. There was a DO derm program director 15 years ago got investigated by the DO Derm College because a disgruntle female applicant complained that program took only male residents.

As for MD programs, there are always more MDs than DOs in significant number. All they have to say is that they picked the most qualified candidates. And they all happened to be MDs. This is much more defensible than the other way around.

Out of all the ex-DO derm programs transitioned to ACGME, only 2 thus far obtained osteopathic recognition that I know of. I cannot speak for other competitive specialties like ortho, but I suspect similar scenario is playing out.

If this is the type of lawsuit you're worried about, I think your concern is in the wrong place. It's possible that weaker MD applicants than the norm for derm may apply to former AOA programs thinking they'll be able to get in, but as long as you're not taking crappy DO candidates defending yourself in court wouldn't be an issue. Especially because degree isn't a protected class as others have mentioned.

On the flip side, there are ACGME PDs who still openly state that they won't accept DOs into their program. Do you think they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit they'd actually lose if a superstar DO sues them? Your example of the derm director who got sued is also irrelevant as gender discrimination is very, very different than degree discrimination. Points on the "osteopathic recognition" thing should be noted by applicants though, as there's otherwise no guarantee that a program would want to focus on taking DOs otherwise.

NYU internal medicine doesn’t interview DO’s, says right in their website. Are they just asking for a discrimination suit? You think they don’t already know this isn’t a lawsuit risk for them?

It actually does not anymore. They were required to remove that statement with the merger, but from DO classmates who matched at NYU for other fields that policy is still in place at their IM program, even if it isn't explicitly stated.

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

The major points are that they are very, very strong applicants, may have strong connections to the school/program, and often do audition rotations and dominate them. The first DO to match integrated plastics came out of KCU (fellowship at Cleveland Clinic and now works there) and he talked to my class when I was in med school. Said he was a strong applicant, but what got him in was he did multiple rotations at the program he matched to and had attendings from other departments telling the Plastic Surgery PD that he would be an idiot not to take him. So strong app (criteria varies by field) + killing the audition rotation is the way to do it imo.

The DOs who match into top residency programs strictly because of their connections (e.g., hospital administrators or big-shot physicians in the family) generally won't admit it.

Sure, but there are plenty of other ways to develop connections. Audition rotations can help a lot. Doing research with an attending there is another great way as that attending may be able to tell the PD that they'd like you to get in to continue working with them (getting that research position in the first place is a different story, but a friend from grad school did this). Networking at conferences and setting up individual meetings with PDs or department chairs can also get your foot in the door (I got 2 interviews this way). Yes, there are those people that have connections through cronyism/nepotism, but there are many other ways to develop connections as well and these can be essential in terms of opening doors along one's career path.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

well yeah nobody is denying that most of us aren't here by choice. But at the same time, you had the option to take another gap year and get grades/research/whatever else and go MD.

If you went through with DO, and I'm in this boat too, you kinda should know any dreams of super prestige are gone. Kinda how if you find yourself bottom quartile after 3/4 of first year, gonna be real hard to make ground and match Derm

Some of us didn't have the option of taking another gap year with multiple MCATs.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

Definitely not by reading stuff on SDN.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Orrrrr they might as well say hey you're a DO take the GD usmle.

Eh. I partially agree with this, and am planning on taking Step, but think it's a bit unfair to require such a high COMLEX vs. USMLE just to apply.

 

[Chibucks15]

Some of us didn't have the option of taking another gap year with multiple MCATs.

my point stands. I wasn't able to do that either, and then came in being okay with not being a dermatologist. Its the people that expect the miracle that you see on here because they've never failed before and don't know how to cope. I know it isn't always due to lack of effort, but if you knew you wanted to be a high-powered doc, should've had the app to back it up. I didn't, and here we are.

Instead of coming in expecting to be the one to match ortho at HMS, come in with realistic expectations and still make your app the best you can, and see where that takes you. Its the day 1 ortho or bust people you see on here throwing around the downfall of the DO profession and how 'unfair' the system is

 

[BorntobeDO?]

It's been a while since I've taken a math class. Can someone check my math? I'm not getting the same numbers.

18,925 / 25,801 = 73.35%
6,876 / 25,801 = 26.65%
Ratio 18,925:6,876 ~ 3:1

Good catch, I almost sent the rover past mars again.

 

[Kalam]

Here is ACOM's self-reported list from Facebook. Only about 95 out of 160 listed here so far:

Anesthesiology

KDHCD Visalia, CA



Emergency Medicine

Merit Health Wesley

University of Colorado/Denver Health

UMass- Baystate

University of Florida

Grand Strand Medical Center - Myrtle Beach, SC

WMU

Mercy Health



Family Medicine

St. Vincent's East

Montgomery, AL

Methodist Dallas

East Jefferson General Hospital, New Orleans LA

Swedish Covenant, Chicago IL

Riverstone, Billings MT

University of California, San Fransisco (UCSF)

OSU!

Christ Hospital Jersey City, NJ

Eisenhower Army Medical Center - Fort Gordon, GA

Ft Belvoir, VA

Phoebe, Albany GA

Spectrum/MSU



General Surgery

Virginia Tech



Internal Medicine

Orange Park Medical Center

University of Louisville

University of Tennessee at Memphis

Texas Tech University – El Paso

University of Nevada - Reno

University of Florida

Largo Medical Center - Tampa/Largo, FL

UAB - Huntsville

St. John’s - Riverside

Grand Strand Medical Center - Myrtle Beach, SC

University of Tennessee - Chattanooga

Ascension Genesys Hospital, Grand Blanc MI


Neurology

Duke University

Spectrum Health/MSU

WSU - Dayton, OH



OBGYN

Garden City Hospital - Michigan

University of Tennessee - Chattanooga

Spectrum Health/MSU

Metro Health/University of Michigan Health

ECU


Orthopaedic Surgery

Largo Medical Center in Tampa, FL



Pediatrics

University of Texas - Houston

University of South Carolina

Eastern Virginia Medical School – Norfolk, VI

Advocate – Chicago, IL

Mercer University

Children's Hospital of Georgia - MCG Augusta.


Psych

Rutgers - New Jersey Medical School

Texas A&M/Baylor Scott & White

University of South Alabama (x2)



Diagnostic Radiology

University of South Alabama

Tulane



Preliminary Surgery

University of Kentucky

Las Vegas


Preliminary Opthalmology

Grandview Medical Center - Dayton


Vascular Surgery

Spectrum/MSU in Grand Rapids, MI

Finally had a moment of free time and cleaned the list up to be more readable. Still missing about 40% of placements from this list since it is an unofficial one from Facebook.

 

[arc5005]

ATSU-SOMA match list?

 

[IsWhat]

Ah, the good ole’ “had connections” argument seems to have popped up again. As a non-traditional student who spent some years in management hiring and firing in a fairly high pressure environment - I literally can’t stress enough the importance of having good people on your team. Many medical students have never worked in their life, at least not at a job where real stress is involved. One bad egg can literally ruin a whole teams moral - a bad resident in a class of 2-4 residents could potentially be nightmarish for the programs management. Plenty of PDs only care about numbers, sure, but my guess is the majority of them just want competent and good people. I would be willing to bet the vast majority of DO students who match at elite programs do not have connections - they most likely auditioned at the program, rocked the audition, and were cool people everyone got along with.

This is the same kind of loser mentality people use to disparage wealthy people. It takes away from the accomplishments of your peers and needs to stop.

 

[deleted407021]

Ah, the good ole’ “had connections” argument seems to have popped up again. As a non-traditional student who spent some years in management hiring and firing in a fairly high pressure environment - I literally can’t stress enough the importance of having good people on your team. Many medical students have never worked in their life, at least not at a job where real stress is involved. One bad egg can literally ruin a whole teams moral - a bad resident in a class of 2-4 residents could potentially be nightmarish for the programs management. Plenty of PDs only care about numbers, sure, but my guess is the majority of them just want competent and good people. I would be willing to bet the vast majority of DO students who match at elite programs do not have connections - they most likely auditioned at the program, rocked the audition, and were cool people everyone got along with.

This is the same kind of loser mentality people use to disparage wealthy people. It takes away from the accomplishments of your peers and needs to stop.

Agreed, except for the last part. We can’t say that DOs with good matches are reliably those who take advantage of connections.

 

[Stagg737]

I would be willing to bet the vast majority of DO students who match at elite programs do not have connections - they most likely auditioned at the program, rocked the audition, and were cool people everyone got along with.

Thus creating a connection when before submitting an application...

I think it's important to keep in mind that saying someone "has a connection" doesn't necessarily mean Uncle Joe is the department chair or Aunt Sally is a notable alumni with a wing named after her. I agree with you that this form of connection is likely very rare among the applicants getting into elite programs or hyper-competitive fields. Audition rotations and networking are not though, and that goes along with the point that most places want someone who works hard and is easy to get along with. That is something that's hard to discern from a single interview day but much easier to evaluate even with weaker connections like I stated above.

 

[Kalam]

Agreed, except for the last part. We can’t say that DOs with good matches are reliably those who take advantage of connections.

Agreed. One of my classmates is not a good student and will likely barely scrape by on the boards, but his dad is the president of a huge hospital system and he has told him that he will get him a good residency match at one of his hospitals.

Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes! I don't blame him for taking advantage of it and those who get into good residencies this way aren't going to be advertising it. You will literally never know.

 

[DNC127]

Sometimes I want to ask those DO people who were accepted into super-competitive residency (For ex: that Uro match at U Michigan from DMU or plastic match at cleveland clinic from KCU) how they manged to shine and received love from the PDs. I figure impressive programs like these two receive tons of great applications from the MD students who probably had equally great board scores and probably more high-quality research opportunities, and I wonder why PDs selected the DO candidates hmm.. Maybe it's connection that made the difference?

Our handful of very impressive matches this year all had a few things in common.

1. Rotated and/or got letters from prominent faculty at good MD programs
2. Had research
3. Were very cool people
4. Had above average, but not insane usmle scores

None had connections to where they matched prior to auditions.