2020 oral boards

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I was one of the week 7.5 candidates who got jerked around by the ABA's back and forth and lack of preparedness. I agree with what a lot of you are saying. We should absolutely make our voices heard in as large numbers as possible. For those who could use some help with how/where to direct their grievances, ABA secretary Dr. Warner should be contacted at the following email address:
[email protected]
At this point it appears there is no resolution that would occur within a reasonable time frame. I for one am not okay with losing a year of income and opportunity, not to mention the sacrifices that went into preparing for an exam that would never happen. If there is similar interest I am willing to put together a petition to have the exam waived and the 2020 cohort grandfathered in as was done for other cohorts across the world who were probably not even as severely affected as us.

I disagree with you. Instead, I would set up a ZOOM Oral exam. Waive the OSCE. I would begin the Oral ZOOM exams immediately.

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I disagree with you. Instead, I would set up a ZOOM Oral exam. Waive the OSCE. I would begin the Oral ZOOM exams immediately.
If it could be done immediately I'm all for it. In an email I received from Dr. Warner he states there IS an ABA task force putting together a virtual exam... but for 2021. If it does happen it won't be any time soon.
 
I disagree with you. Instead, I would set up a ZOOM Oral exam. Waive the OSCE. I would begin the Oral ZOOM exams immediately.

Again. This neglects weeks of lost wages scheduling for this exam. That’s a very high opportunity cost even without the also very real effect being in limbo has had on our cohort.
 
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I was one of the week 7.5 candidates who got jerked around by the ABA's back and forth and lack of preparedness. I agree with what a lot of you are saying. We should absolutely make our voices heard in as large numbers as possible. For those who could use some help with how/where to direct their grievances, ABA secretary Dr. Warner should be contacted at the following email address:
[email protected]
At this point it appears there is no resolution that would occur within a reasonable time frame. I for one am not okay with losing a year of income and opportunity, not to mention the sacrifices that went into preparing for an exam that would never happen. If there is similar interest I am willing to put together a petition to have the exam waived and the 2020 cohort grandfathered in as was done for other cohorts across the world who were probably not even as severely affected as us.
I feel your pain bud! They cancelled me with only 2 weeks notice (week 3). I have low hopes they’ll ever waive us because unlike other country’s governing bodies, our ABA only cares about $. It’s not like we haven’t been on the frontlines working our asses off for the past 4 months or anything. It’s not going to get better either, especially with flu season coming up too. They’ve literally had the last 4+ months to come up with a contingency virtual exam & have likely made zero progress. Covid-19 + having to eventually study for a bull**** test (which we were previously all ready for) on top of normal work stressors & family life is a great recipe to burnout this cohort of physicians!
 
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I feel your pain bud! They cancelled me with only 2 weeks notice (week 3). I have low hopes they’ll ever waive us because unlike other country’s governing bodies, our ABA only cares about $. It’s not like we haven’t been on the frontlines working our asses off for the past 4 months or anything. It’s not going to get better either, especially with flu season coming up too. They’ve literally had the last 4+ months to come up with a contingency virtual exam & have likely made zero progress. Covid-19 + having to eventually study for a bull**** test (which we were previously all ready for) on top of normal work stressors & family life is a great recipe to burnout this cohort of physicians!

They cancelled week 2 with only 5 days notice. Worse is they sent out a email 6 days before the exam saying its going to proceed. Then the next day they said its cancelled. Try cancelling your flight in march, you'd be put on a several hour long hold.
 
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Someone wrote in the online physician group about surgery boards

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They cancelled week 2 with only 5 days notice. Worse is they sent out a email 6 days before the exam saying its going to proceed. Then the next day they said its cancelled. Try cancelling your flight in march, you'd be put on a several hour long hold.

that's terrible. the lack of communication and sense of direction is appalling
 
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that's terrible. the lack of communication and sense of direction is appalling
I feel like we’re dealing with politicians at this point. . . . empty promises without a real game plan, egos, and them only being concerned with keeping their party (the ABA) alive with our donations (exam fees). All this in addition to a complete inability to relate to the people (2020/2021) cohort. only difference is in politics at least you have the option of choosing between whichever of the 2 parties that appear to be the lesser of two evils at the time being.
 
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I'm just a medical student but can anyone explain why they can't just set a webcam up and run the exam? I mean at it's core it's literally sitting in a room talking to a couple docs and then going to the next room to do the same right???

How ****ing hard could that possibly be to figure out? Hell, put the examinees in a prepped/secure hotel room to prevent cheating (stupid as **** to even discuss; like anyone would cheat in their house).

For the record, the NBOME is doing this same absolutely disgraceful behavior with the Comlex PE exam (DO version CS) so I definitely feel the pain.
 
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I'm just a medical student but can anyone explain why they can't just set a webcam up and run the exam? I mean at it's core it's literally sitting in a room talking to a couple docs and then going to the next room to do the same right???

How ****ing hard could that possibly be to figure out? Hell, put the examinees in a prepped/secure hotel room to prevent cheating (stupid as **** to even discuss; like anyone would cheat in their house).

For the record, the NBOME is doing this same absolutely disgraceful behavior with the Comlex PE exam (DO version CS) so I definitely feel the pain.

its probably too much work for them to figure out how to do this. also i dont know what contracts they have with the businesses over there if any, like the testing center, hotel, etc
 
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its probably too much work for them to figure out how to do this. also i dont know what contracts they have with the businesses over there if any, like the testing center, hotel, etc
I guess so. The contracts are a great point. It seems like a lot of our issues with technology in medicine could be rectified by a gifted 19 year old and it's frustrating to think about.
 
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they at least got a refund of their exam fee
 
I contacted the ASA and ABA. It's costing quite a bit having this pushed off. And for what? It's not fair to applicants to have the test pushed off so far as it is. They are completely out of touch with reality.
 
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I’m a new grad preparing for the written exam this week. I went ahead and emailed the asa, aba, and csa advocating for oral boards asap or waiving the oral if they can’t figure it out. Asked everyone in my class to do the same as well. Hopefully if enough of us reach out something will happen.
 
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I emailed the ABA today. My group will not consider me for full partnership until I am board certified. Delaying board certification by a year will cost me well over $100k in lost income, not including the vacation and CME time I'll need to take again in order to study. This is not okay. Please consider emailing them if you haven't already.

I think it says something about your groupo_O
 
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I think it says something about your groupo_O

It says that they don't want to make someone a partner until they can pass oral boards, and they don't want board candidates distracted by admin/business responsibilities until the exam is out of the way. :shrug:
 
It says that they don't want to make someone a partner until they can pass oral boards, and they don't want board candidates distracted by admin/business responsibilities until the exam is out of the way. :shrug:
How much admin and business responsibility do you get as a new partner recently out of residency? A lot I guess!
 
I emailed the ABA today. My group will not consider me for full partnership until I am board certified. Delaying board certification by a year will cost me well over $100k in lost income, not including the vacation and CME time I'll need to take again in order to study. This is not okay. Please consider emailing them if you haven't already.

where does that $100k go? Your partners bank accounts. Given the pandemic circumstances they could have been more sympathetic to your situation by either making you a conditional partner or reworking your contract for the next year. They’re probably seeing losses due to decreased volume and probably saw an opportunity to save some $ for themselves. They did you dirty.
 
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They could easily give financial parity and hold off on giving you voting rights and whatever other responsibilities they place on partners. You've paid your dues.
 
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I think it says something about your groupo_O
It says that they don't want to make someone a partner until they can pass oral boards, and they don't want board candidates distracted by admin/business responsibilities until the exam is out of the way. :shrug:

Isnt this practice pretty common these days? even forget partners, i know new fellowship grads w job offers rescinded due to the current board certification issue
 
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Isnt this practice pretty common these days? even forget partners, i know new fellowship grads w job offers rescinded due to the current board certification issue

For sure volume has gone down. But there are places hiring new graduates for partnership track positions to replace people who retired recently, partially due to covid. The need is enough that financial parity from day 1 is being offered at certain locations with 1 year to voting rights, as are 5-6 figure sign on bonuses.
 
For sure volume has gone down. But there are places hiring new graduates for partnership track positions to replace people who retired recently, partially due to covid. The need is enough that financial parity from day 1 is being offered at certain locations with 1 year to voting rights, as are 5-6 figure sign on bonuses.

You’re the second person who just said that.....
maybe it isn’t a bad time to look for new things.
 
For sure volume has gone down. But there are places hiring new graduates for partnership track positions to replace people who retired recently, partially due to covid. The need is enough that financial parity from day 1 is being offered at certain locations with 1 year to voting rights, as are 5-6 figure sign on bonuses.
You’re the second person who just said that.....
maybe it isn’t a bad time to look for new things.

im not seeing much in my area in the north east
 
I dont think there will be virtual exams. I predict the pandemic to be at a controlled level by Janurary, and they will restart testing at their site. I also think they will not be able to examine all 2020 and 2021 candidates in the next calendar year.
 
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I dont think there will be virtual exams. I predict the pandemic to be at a controlled level by Janurary, and they will restart testing at their site. I also think they will not be able to examine all 2020 and 2021 candidates in the next calendar year.

I would love to see how you came to that conclusion. You think that winter is going to help a viral outbreak?
 
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I would love to see how you came to that conclusion. You think that winter is going to help a viral outbreak?
Primarily on the basis of the ABA not having any details on virtual testing. They have no concrete plans, dates, online platforms, or format announced. They have dragged their feet in the hopes that this pandemic is controlled with little regard of the consequences to the candidates. They almost proceeded with weeks 7.5 at near peak levels of outbreak. They are willing to accept a certain risk to make the exam happen at the testing center. If the numbers return to early June levels, they will probably restart in NC. I also believe they have little incentive to have their testing be at risk of being recorded. Recording the format of the exam is unprecedented, even if its just audio on your phone. People can debate that the examiner was not paying attention to a fair answer that was given. The somewhat subjective grading can be opened up to criticism.

That being said, I am in support of anything that grandfather this year's class or at the minimum, start testing ASAP.

Edit: europe has it relatively controlled. I think people will start adhering to mask precautions and social distancing if things continue to get worse. I am not sure if winter alone predicts a worsening outbreak. sure its something to consider, but dont know yet if winter independently will make things worse.
 
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Primarily on the basis of the ABA not having any details on virtual testing. They have no concrete plans, dates, online platforms, or format announced. They have dragged their feet in the hopes that this pandemic is controlled with little regard of the consequences to the candidates. They almost proceeded with weeks 7.5 at near peak levels of outbreak. They are willing to accept a certain risk to make the exam happen at the testing center. If the numbers return to early June levels, they will probably restart in NC. I also believe they have little incentive to have their testing be at risk of being recorded. Recording the format of the exam is unprecedented, even if its just audio on your phone. People can debate that the examiner was not paying attention to a fair answer that was given. The somewhat subjective grading can be opened up to criticism.

That being said, I am in support of anything that grandfather this year's class or at the minimum, start testing ASAP.

Edit: europe has it relatively controlled. I think people will start adhering to mask precautions and social distancing if things continue to get worse. I am not sure if winter alone predicts a worsening outbreak. sure its something to consider, but dont know yet if winter independently will make things worse.

If they restarted in person testing right now would you honestly trust them enough to rearrange your call and vacation schedule and start studying for it again? You can’t just take the exam on a weeks notice.
 
If they restarted in person testing right now would you honestly trust them enough to rearrange your call and vacation schedule and start studying for it again? You can’t just take the exam on a weeks notice.
no, I would not trust the process to be smooth or honored. And I agree that you need time to study. However, all of our concerns have been voiced to ABA/ASA. They have not made any significant strides to get us back on path. My overall sentiment is disappointment that a professional body overseeing physicians has lost trust, caused stressed to frontline workers, and cost significant income loss. we all want to move on from this exam already...

Also, hypothetically, if they opened up virtual testing in september, I think most slots would be taken up by people. BUT they wont move that fast. so I bank on the pandemic being somewhat controlled than the ABA making it a smooth and practical process quickly.
 
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no, I would not trust the process to be smooth or honored. And I agree that you need time to study. However, all of our concerns have been voiced to ABA/ASA. They have not made any significant strides to get us back on path. My overall sentiment is disappointment that a professional body overseeing physicians has lost trust, caused stressed to frontline workers, and cost significant income loss. we all want to move on from this exam already...

Also, hypothetically, if they opened up virtual testing in september, I think most slots would be taken up by people. BUT they wont move that fast. so I bank on the pandemic being somewhat controlled than the ABA making it a smooth and practical process quickly.
100% agree. As a recent graduate planning on registering for the oral board in September, I think at the moment I will delay registering at all.
 
where does that $100k go? Your partners bank accounts. Given the pandemic circumstances they could have been more sympathetic to your situation by either making you a conditional partner or reworking your contract for the next year. They’re probably seeing losses due to decreased volume and probably saw an opportunity to save some $ for themselves. They did you dirty.
@gratefulgas
I agree with the above sentiment, especially if they cut your partnership track physician pay during this period. If so, they expected you to shoulder the risk of owning a business during a circumstance out of your control, but not get the reward of partnership/$$$ due to something out of your control.

I’ll be willing to guess you were not given an end of year bonus in December 2019. If people leave them, I’d also be willing to bet that if you’re willing to leave and get another job lined up, they will “unanimously” decide that they would love to make you a partner.

if they have a hard time recruiting to their job, you’ve got more leverage. But would you really want to team up with people who would gladly try to take advantage new grad to keep more money for themselves?
you’re probably not the only one they tried to take advantage of during this time.

Vote with your feet.
 
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Anybody up for a betting pool on when the next communication from the ABA concerning oral boards? It could be like one of those ”guess the date” calendars for someone having a baby! We may as well have some fun with this as they toy around with our lives! I’m guessing mid-October.
 
Anybody up for a betting pool on when the next communication from the ABA concerning oral boards? It could be like one of those ”guess the date” calendars for someone having a baby! We may as well have some fun with this as they toy around with our lives! I’m guessing mid-October.
My guess is - video oral boards and no OSCE.
 
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The osce is ******ed. I think we know how to take consent. I love how they added Explaining how to do problem based learning on it. How is this clinically relevant?. My examiner also asked me to point out the axillary vein when I was scanning the Antecubital fossa. I had to correct her if she meant brachial lol
 
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My guess is - video oral boards and no OSCE.
That would be nice! COVID is picking up at my shop, don’t see it slowing down much this fall/winter during flu season either. I hope they’re not sitting on their asses just waiting to see if Pfizer’s vaccine comes out & makes it better by January, but I wouldnt be surprised if they were.
 
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I'm surprised waive the applied exam petition is not on fire yet. Saw 275 signed so far.
Please sign and share if you have not!

not sure why its not picking up. probably because patient are getting burnt out on covid related anything in many areas of the country. though it doesnt even have to be anesthesiologists, share to everyone!
 
This was really the only way forward I don’t understand why it took so long.
The OSCE however definitely loses its purpose here. Am I to instruct someone else where to put an ultrasound for a block on an SP and then identify structures with a pointer and my mouse?
DoI have to virtually talk down an angry surgeon via Skype whose case I canceled?

I didn’t think it was possible but this worthless exam somehow managed to become even more pointless.
 
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I’m curious too how they want us to do the virtual OSCE and whether or not we have to dress up for the camera? Or maybe we do the zoom thing and just dress up the top half.
 
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I’m curious too how they want us to do the virtual OSCE and whether or not we have to dress up for the camera? Or maybe we do the zoom thing and just dress up the top half.
It would’ve been nice had they arranged virtual MUCH earlier on, but I’ll take it! I just hope they give us our test date a little later then 3 months out. Some of us have crazy schedules/kids at home & do most of their studying on call (I.e me), but at least they’re moving in the right direction now.
 
Happy they finally did this to assure all the 2020 oral hoard class gets this done.

However, all of us about to register next month for t he 2021 exam are in complete limbo. I wish they would just commit to virtual exams for the entirety of 2021, feels like the same run around for our class.
 
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