I don't think you understood the point I was making. I want to be rock solid with as few doubts as possible at the end of my residency and that is exactly what these residents were. Opposed to the third years which had to rely on attendings more.Originally posted by cg1155
I think that is exactly the point.
i actually have to disagree with your point. there are 100 3 year programs and 32 4 year programs (including 2-4, 1-4). if you look at the scores of inservice exams, there is very little difference between 3rd and 4th year residents.I want to be rock solid with as few doubts as possible at the end of my residency and that is exactly what these residents were. Opposed to the third years which had to rely on attendings more.
Absolutely.Originally posted by OhioInTheWest
Its just better to keep all my options open for now. I don't want to make a decision based on one year and then have 20 years of unfulfilled expectations and regret.
I'm having trouble following your thoughts here...Originally posted by jazz
there are 100 3 year programs and 32 4 year programs (including 2-4, 1-4). if you look at the scores of inservice exams, there is very little difference between 3rd and 4th year residents.
that's what i'm saying. i actually think that the first time pass rate is comparable as well but don't have numbers to prove it. i did have the inservice scores from last year but have mislocated them. but yes, the pgy-3 scores were very similar to the pgy-4 scores.Are you saying that PGY-3 scores are comparable to PGY-4 scores as well?
Interesting. There appears to be no real benefit of the PGY-3 year as well (yes, I am being serious).Originally posted by jazz
EM year Mean Median Std Dev Min Max Count
1/ 68.63 / 69 /7.64/ 44/ 88/1269
2 /75.10 / 76 /7.07/ 45/ 92/1215
3 /79.02 / 79 /6.22/ 52/ 96/1143
4 /79.45 / 80 /5.29/ 62/ 92/133
Let?s not kid ourselves here. Who in their right mind is going to go back to being a peon after a year of making attendings? wages? Of course we all know the one or two cases who have done so... but for the vast majority of us once the money starts rolling in and we can start paying back debts we aren?t going to go backwards and will somehow rationalize how the fellowship isn?t really all that important.Originally posted by SewerRat
Of course you can do a 3-year residency, work for 1-year, and then get an academic position or fellowship at a 4-year program. But that seems to me like its just getting complicated.
Umm, that's not what I learned in statistics. The means from 2-3 are statistically different. The means from 3-4 are probably statistically different. Does that matter in terms of ability to practice? In the world of 4 year EM the answer is yes, in the world of 3 year EM the answer is no. A better comparison would be board passage rates or malpractice claims which, at least in my research, were comparable. I'll have to see if I still have that stuff around.Geek Medic?s last point is also valid... look at the SDs and you?ll see that the 2nd and 3rd years are comparable. So, jazz, if the sole basis for judging an extra year is the inservice exam then you should actually be pointing out that all programs should be 2 years, not 3.
Well, I suppose that would be imprtant if you wanted to go into academic EM, which 90% of graduating EP's don't, and only if you were devoted to going on faculty at a 4 year program, which only represents 25% of programs.And, not to harp on the point that?s already been made, but multiple PDs of 4-year programs have told me that they?d never take a grad of a 3 year program directly as either a fellow or faculty for the reason that OhioInTheWest pointed out earlier.
I'm undecided on moonlighting. Here's why:Originally posted by cg1155
Last, let's throw moonlighting into the mix. If you need to be as "polished" as possible to run an ED will you avoid moonlighting? I am told by graduating seniors that some jobs require some moonlighting experience during residency to prove you can run an ED on your own.