3 years out - officially a millionaire and one step closer to saying goodbye to EM

[emergentmd]

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Agreed. Not saying you cant make money in real estate. I just dont have the time/energy/effort to want it. Also with rates so high i feel RE needs to reset to make it more alluring Set it and forget it in stocks. No ongoing costs vs a good chunk in real estate and the pressure to always have it rented.

I see two ways people look at FIRE.

#1 Fire - Hit that magic number where their 4% withdrawal will last them for 30 years. So if you need $200k/yr, you will need 5M to feel safe. BUT this will put your net worth close to zero when you get around year 30. Not that this is a bad thing but there will not be much legacy

#2 Fire - I want to have a legacy to give my kids. I want to spend more if I wanted to when retired than when I am working. If I need $300K/yr, I want $300K just from passive income. I want $7M in retirement and passive income making $300K/yr. This is my Fire. So if I want to increase my spending to 400K/yr, I don't have to work. So in 30 years and I never touched my retirement, I would have close to $40M to give to my heirs.

I am FIRE over 10M+ in assets and my passive from these assets easily covers my spending allowing me to continue to add to my assets. I worked hard and want to retirement under my terms. I don't want to be restricted by $$$. I want to pass on a legacy not only in teaching them how to handle money but also giving them the chance to grow the legacy. Someone has to be the 1st in the family to start this.

This is why most of my wealth is in real estate and business holdings. They all continue to make money when I stop working.

 

[emergentmd]

Yeah I guess I don't see why it would be a parents responsibility to pay for their kids house down payment.

There is no obligation for parents to put a down payment on their kids home. No obligation to pay for college. No obligation to buy a car. No obligation over just giving them a roof/food.

But we all do more than roof/food so everyone's ceiling is different.

I will pay for my kids education no matter how far they go. I will likely gift them their first home maybe up to $500K. I have more money than I need. What is the point of dying with 20M vs 15M? I rather see them have an easier life than dying with 5M more. Now, the caveat is I plan to teach them money and how to continue wealth building for their heirs.

 

[Splenda88]

Your wife is really expensive.

Yeah I guess I don't see why it would be a parents responsibility to pay for their kids house down payment.

Yours isn't?

While I am reading this thread, my wife is trying to book a trip to England (family of 4) for spring break that will cost ~12k. She wants to go back to Europe (Italy and Switzerland) again 3-4 months later.

 

[Porfirio]

Your wife is really expensive.

Yeah I guess I don't see why it would be a parents responsibility to pay for their kids house down payment.

She drove a Hyundai Tucson Value trim for 6 years (my car now). Third child required third row and active life meant Yukon XL size. We plan to have this 8-10 years, why go cheap? We went Denali and love it.

My wife is from Fairfield County Connecticut. She has a trust fund (we do not touch it).

The house is not for my kids - it is for my grandkids. Housing in the future is only going to get more expensive, and I want my grandkids to grow up in a house their parents own (indirectly by me owning it on paper).

 

[emergentmd]

Yours isn't?

While I am reading this thread, my wife is trying to book a trip to England (family of 4) for spring break that will cost ~12k. She wants to go back to Europe (Italy and Switzerland) again 3-4 months later.

Man, enjoy your $$$ but have guardrails. Keep within the guardrails and you will be able to enjoy your hard work while you are physically able while also have enough for retirement.

I rather have $5M when I die and spend what I want than have $20M at death making my family miserable.

Give me a 4* hotel on vacation over a 2*. Everyone has their personal guardrails. But I will always believe dying with 5M is no different than 20M.

 

[Splenda88]

Man, enjoy your $$$ but have guardrails. Keep within the guardrails and you will be able to enjoy your hard work while you are physically able while also have enough for retirement.

I rather have $5M when I die and spend what I want than have $20M at death making my family miserable.

Give me a 4* hotel on vacation over a 2*. Everyone has their personal guardrails. But I will always believe dying with 5M is no different than 20M.

It's a balancing act. I look at it that way: If can save/invest 120k/yr, I feel like I can use the extra $$$ to enjoy my life while I am able to.

Probably will not stay at a 2-3 stars hotel again as long as I am able to make what I am making now 350k+. The difference between these hotels and 4-5 stars in term of service, cleanliness etc,.. is big.

My friend who makes 600k+ thought spending >$300/night in a hotel it's money wasted until he tried "Waldorf" and now he is more inflexible than I am about hotel stay.

 

[emergentmd]

It's a balancing act. I look at it that way: If can save/invest 120k/yr, I feel like I can use the extra $$$ to enjoy my life while I am able to.

Probably will not stay at a 2-3 stars hotel again as long as I am able to make what I am making now 350k+. The difference between these hotels and 4-5 stars in term of service, cleanliness etc,.. is big.

My friend who makes 600k+ thought spending >$300/night in a hotel it's money wasted until he tried "Waldorf" and now he is more inflexible than I am about hotel stay.

Guardrail in bold. It is hard for some to get to this point. Save what your goal is, and enjoy the rest.

Saving an extra $200 a night and making the whole family miserable when you have already saved $100K/yr is plain misguided.

I have a family member who does this to their family. Its just miserable and I really think it is becoming a mental disorder. I am talking about going on a 10K vacation, and splitting a $10 ice cream cup between her 3 teenage kids. Or packing a ham sandwich on the slopes while spending 10K on a ski trip. It just makes no sense and a borderline mental disorder.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

She drove a Hyundai Tucson Value trim for 6 years (my car now). Third child required third row and active life meant Yukon XL size. We plan to have this 8-10 years, why go cheap? We went Denali and love it.

My wife is from Fairfield County Connecticut. She has a trust fund (we do not touch it).

The house is not for my kids - it is for my grandkids. Housing in the future is only going to get more expensive, and I want my grandkids to grow up in a house their parents own (indirectly by me owning it on paper).

All you had to say was Fairfield County.

You do you, but kinda weird she has a trust fund you don't touch, but work 200 hrs / month to buy her a 100k car.

Her trust fund is protected in a divorce, your income from 2400 hrs / yr working in the ED is not.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I see two ways people look at FIRE.

#1 Fire - Hit that magic number where their 4% withdrawal will last them for 30 years. So if you need $200k/yr, you will need 5M to feel safe. BUT this will put your net worth close to zero when you get around year 30. Not that this is a bad thing but there will not be much legacy

#2 Fire - I want to have a legacy to give my kids. I want to spend more if I wanted to when retired than when I am working. If I need $300K/yr, I want $300K just from passive income. I want $7M in retirement and passive income making $300K/yr. This is my Fire. So if I want to increase my spending to 400K/yr, I don't have to work. So in 30 years and I never touched my retirement, I would have close to $40M to give to my heirs.

I am FIRE over 10M+ in assets and my passive from these assets easily covers my spending allowing me to continue to add to my assets. I worked hard and want to retirement under my terms. I don't want to be restricted by $$$. I want to pass on a legacy not only in teaching them how to handle money but also giving them the chance to grow the legacy. Someone has to be the 1st in the family to start this.

This is why most of my wealth is in real estate and business holdings. They all continue to make money when I stop working.

I will say the 4% in #1 fire is meant to make sure you dont go broke. It doesnt mean you are broke in year 30. I am working on #2. You can create passive income with stocks. Plenty of dividend kings out there if that is your jam. I’m just saying there are a number of ways to skin that cat.

I also agree that if you can afford it you should help your kids along the way. When i was broke if someone in my family or my wife’s family gave me 50k early on it would have helped me more than 500k today. Frankly the today number would have to be much higher than 500k. As you noted the real legacy is teaching them money and making sure they make good choices personally and academically.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Some of my favorite principles and philosophies:

You can have anything you want as an Emergency Physician, just not everything you want.

Many ‘retire’ too late.

Most spend far less in retirement than they do during their peak earning years.

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

I don’t plan to leave much to my kids financially. I try to give them as much as I possibly can regarding a value system that I think is inportant.

 

[Porfirio]

All you had to say was Fairfield County.

You do you, but kinda weird she has a trust fund you don't touch, but work 200 hrs / month to buy her a 100k car.

Her trust fund is protected in a divorce, your income from 2400 hrs / yr working in the ED is not.

Ah the old divorce thought. Most women respect a man that works for his family and wakes up every morning (or night) and thinks “how am I going to provide the love and things my family needs and wants.” Some women find that attractive, especially when they see the lazy and not ambitious other side in the family. Most women want their dad. Her dad grew up middle class and saved the family fortune.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I will say the 4% in #1 fire is meant to make sure you dont go broke. It doesnt mean you are broke in year 30. I am working on #2. You can create passive income with stocks. Plenty of dividend kings out there if that is your jam. I’m just saying there are a number of ways to skin that cat.

I also agree that if you can afford it you should help your kids along the way. When i was broke if someone in my family or my wife’s family gave me 50k early on it would have helped me more than 500k today. Frankly the today number would have to be much higher than 500k. As you noted the real legacy is teaching them money and making sure they make good choices personally and academically.

Median amount at 30 years 4% on 5m ur at 14.5 principal. Also not considering ss which will be some amount.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Yours isn't?

While I am reading this thread, my wife is trying to book a trip to England (family of 4) for spring break that will cost ~12k. She wants to go back to Europe (Italy and Switzerland) again 3-4 months later.

Not really.

We live in a nice but modest (in my area, this is < 1 mil) house and drive safe but modest (< 30k) cars. She doesn't even really like to travel, if anything I'm the one that pushes for expensive travel.

You do you but I'd feel kinda weird just being a wallet. Some y'all really get off on the provider role.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Some of my favorite principles and philosophies:

You can have anything you want as an Emergency Physician, just not everything you want.

Many ‘retire’ too late.

Most spend far less in retirement than they do during their peak earning years.

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

I don’t plan to leave much to my kids financially. I try to give them as much as I possibly can regarding a value system that I think is inportant.

My addition to this list: get out before you stroke out

 

[finalpsychyear]

My addition to this list: get out before you stroke out

Spoke to an EM friend who is something like 10-11 years out and one of the guys i talked FIRE with back in residency. He said he's burned out but managed to sock away somewhere in 4-5 range doing voo and pharmacist wife who just had a kid. They drove their paid off toyotas from residency and have a simple sub 500k house at low interest in MCOL. I mean i believe him but thats crazy how fast he got there but if i recall they were in the 500-600k range during most of that time and super savers till they hit this type of milestone.

Now he tells me he is only doing 8 shifts/mo which he's loving since dec 2024.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Spoke to an EM friend who is something like 10-11 years out and one of the guys i talked FIRE with back in residency. He said he's burned out but managed to sock away somewhere in 4-5 range doing voo and pharmacist wife who just had a kid. They drove their paid off toyotas from residency and have a simple sub 500k house at low interest in MCOL. I mean i believe him but thats crazy how fast he got there but if i recall they were in the 500-600k range during most of that time and super savers till they hit this type of milestone.

Now he tells me he is only doing 8 shifts/mo which he's loving since dec 2024.

I mean, it's just math.

$250/hr x 2500 hrs / yr x 11 yrs = 6.8MM

Great, so you have a large number. But you are now burnt to a crisp, and were likely suicidal for 11 years.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I mean, it's just math.

$250/hr x 2500 hrs / yr x 11 yrs = 6.8MM

Great, so you have a large number. But you are now burnt to a crisp, and were likely suicidal for 11 years.

I think he was doing locums making 400+ a lot when things were peaking.

 

[emergentmd]

So this guy spent his 20’s working like a dog in residency. Spent his 30’s working like a dog living like a resident. Now he is 40’s having memories of living like a resident for 20 of his best years?

I being 50 on the other side and I think he will have regrets.

 

[emergentmd]

I think he was doing locums making 400+ a lot when things were peaking.

I know guys who were making $1M+ for 5+ years. U can do it but the price is steep.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I know guys who were making $1M+ for 5+ years. U can do it but the price is steep.

He's 40 yo i believe. Didn't say anything about living like a resident in my post just they are simple and dont spend on cars or housing much but i bet their 500k house is worth 50% more now maybe. They do travel but maybe not first class but they plan to do it more now going forward but have a newborn so not sure a lot of travel is happening quite yet.

He seems to be enjoying the 8 shifts a month and is essentially in FIRE Mode to be in the 4-5m liquid at 40 yo is sorta amazing imo. They spend 150-175k/yr now so even just him working for a few years 8 shift/mo allows that nest egg to maybe double in the 5-7 year stretch ahead.

Imo he won the game. Hes married and has a kid and at 40 yo is able to walk away and FIRE. Depending on how well you take care of the body the 40s can be damn good. 50s start some trt a la bezos.

 

[Splenda88]

He's 40 yo i believe. Didn't say anything about living like a resident in my post just they are simple and dont spend on cars or housing much but i bet their 500k house is worth 50% more now maybe. They do travel but maybe not first class but they plan to do it more now going forward but have a newborn so not sure a lot of travel is happening quite yet.

He seems to be enjoying the 8 shifts a month and is essentially in FIRE Mode to be in the 4-5m liquid at 40 yo is sorta amazing imo. They spend 150-175k/yr now so even just him working for a few years 8 shift/mo allows that nest egg to maybe double in the 5-7 year stretch ahead.

Imo he won the game. Hes married and has a kid and at 40 yo is able to walk away and FIRE. Depending on how well you take care of the body the 40s can be damn good. 50s start some trt a la bezos.

This guy has won the game in every way possible. At 40, he is relatively young to enjoy life for many years.

I wish I did medicine 10-yr earlier. Even we complain in SDN most of the time, there aren't that many better ROI than medicine.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I wish I did medicine 10-yr earlier. Even we complain in SDN most of the time, there aren't that many better ROI than medicine.

There’s a lot of truth to this. For all its warts, it’s about as guaranteed as it gets financially for someone who can work hard and live beneath their means for a bit.

 

[vm26]

I mean, it's just math.

$250/hr x 2500 hrs / yr x 11 yrs = 6.8MM

Great, so you have a large number. But you are now burnt to a crisp, and were likely suicidal for 11 years.

Not a finance guy so wondering how pre-tax/pre-living expense 6.8M for 11 years could net 4-5M liquid? After taxes that 6.8 is like 3.7M. After living expenses that 3.7 is like 1.8 over 11 years. With an initial deposit of 400k, contributing 170K annually in the market at 8% for 10 years yields 3.3M. Btw I am fully aware that my logic/math may be wrong. Just trying to get more educated about this stuff

 

[cyanide12345678]

Not a finance guy so wondering how pre-tax/pre-living expense 6.8M for 11 years could net 4-5M liquid? After taxes that 6.8 is like 3.7M. After living expenses that 3.7 is like 1.8 over 11 years. With an initial deposit of 400k, contributing 170K annually in the market at 8% for 10 years yields 3.3M. Btw I am fully aware that my logic/math may be wrong. Just trying to get more educated about this stuff

All i can tell you is that in 5.5 years, purely from an income perspective as far as our jobs are concerned my wife and i have made the following:

2019: 300k (half year as attending plus wife’s resident salary)
2020: 500k (450k + 50k)
2021: 500k (400k + 100k - wife starts as attending this year at the end of the year - we took 3 months off from work as well)
2022: 630k (400k plus 230k)
2023: 700k (473kb plus 230k)
2024: 650k (400k plus 250k)

If you count all of the above - we’ve made 3.2M so far in our career. Our net worth has swung from negative 100k to positive 2.3m - that’s a 2.4m swing in net worth despite an income of 3.2m before taxes and expenses. Market returns and investment returns really do start making a meaningful difference basically.

So it’s conceivable that someone who made 6.8M could easily end up with 4-5M in investments. My household most likely will at least if we pulled off another 3.6M in income over another 5-6 years.

 

[emergentmd]

Not a finance guy so wondering how pre-tax/pre-living expense 6.8M for 11 years could net 4-5M liquid? After taxes that 6.8 is like 3.7M. After living expenses that 3.7 is like 1.8 over 11 years. With an initial deposit of 400k, contributing 170K annually in the market at 8% for 10 years yields 3.3M. Btw I am fully aware that my logic/math may be wrong. Just trying to get more educated about this stuff

You are not wrong but there are many variables that affects the end total.

1. Any school/personal debt? 300K school debt wipes out the 1-2 years of work.
2 If he had no debt that is 625K/y and assume no tax state and 30% federal is 437k/yr. Say he lives off 137k so saves 300k.yr.
3. 300k/yr x 11 years at market 8% return puts you at 4.4M in 11 years.

4.4 M at 40 yrs old could be FIRE but there are events that could derail this including divorces, bad downturn in the market (remember 2001), inflation. I personally do not think 4.4M at 40yrs old is enough to feel comfortably FIRE. But working 3-4 shifts/month to pay for living expenses til he is 50 would almost guarantee comfortable FIRE as that 4.4M would be close to 10M at historical market returns.

 

[Splenda88]

You are not wrong but there are many variables that affects the end total.

1. Any school/personal debt? 300K school debt wipes out the 1-2 years of work.
2 If he had no debt that is 625K/y and assume no tax state and 30% federal is 437k/yr. Say he lives off 137k so saves 300k.yr.
3. 300k/yr x 11 years at market 8% return puts you at 4.4M in 11 years.

4.4 M at 40 yrs old could be FIRE but there are events that could derail this including divorces, bad downturn in the market (remember 2001), inflation. I personally do not think 4.4M at 40yrs old is enough to feel comfortably FIRE. But working 3-4 shifts/month to pay for living expenses til he is 50 would almost guarantee comfortable FIRE as that 4.4M would be close to 10M at historical market returns.

Working 1 day/wk when your net worth is 4+ mil is akin to FIRE in my book.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Working 1 day/wk when your net worth is 4+ mil is akin to FIRE in my book.

Honestly…. I’m 36. If i worked 1 day a week at my PRN gig ill still bring home 180k. If my wife worked 1 day per week she’ll make 80k as well.

We would still end up saving around 40-50k a year.

We’re basically very close to FIRE already in my mind.

 

[emergentmd]

Working 1 day/wk when your net worth is 4+ mil is akin to FIRE in my book.

Absolutely. FIRE is not stop working but working on your own terms. I am working about once a week right now and it is much more enjoyable working when you want to. But I just caution you do risk running out of $$$ if he just stops working.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Absolutely. FIRE is not stop working but working on your own terms. I am working about once a week right now and it is much more enjoyable working when you want to. But I just caution you do risk running out of $$$ if he just stops working.

No matter how much you say you don't, which I'm sure you would say, skill atrophy is definitely a thing.

Working 4 shifts a month no matter how many years you've done this is dangerous for your patients.

This factored into my decision to stop clinical work when I went admin.

 

[Splenda88]

Honestly…. I’m 36. If i worked 1 day a week at my PRN gig ill still bring home 180k. If my wife worked 1 day per week she’ll make 80k as well.

We would still end up saving around 40-50k a year.

We’re basically very close to FIRE already in my mind.

You are not close. You can FIRE right now if you want to.

260k put you/spouse in the 91th percentile of household income

What kind of locum one can make 180k/yr working only ~50 shifts for the whole year? That is 3.5k+ per shift?

Physicians don't seem to realize how fortunate they are. The common folks out there won't believe you if you tell them you can make that kind of money working ONLY 1 day/week.

 

[sloh]

More of this FIRE discussion should revolve around coastFIRE. Paid off house and 2M will give you a lot of room to breathe. I don’t think any of us want to stop working completely even if we could.

 

[finalpsychyear]

More of this FIRE discussion should revolve around coastFIRE. Paid off house and 2M will give you a lot of room to breathe. I don’t think any of us want to stop working completely even if we could.

10m liquid is what i would say would allow me to walk away if i was early 40s. But 5m and part time makes sense but again the goal is to get that 5 to become 10. Thats the common denominator. Game over with 10m at a 3-4% withdrawal.

 

[Splenda88]

More of this FIRE discussion should revolve around coastFIRE. Paid off house and 2M will give you a lot of room to breathe. I don’t think any of us want to stop working completely even if we could.

Agree. That is my number (2-2.5M). I will continue to work part time since I like my job.

 

[Porfirio]

10m liquid is what i would say would allow me to walk away if i was early 40s. But 5m and part time makes sense but again the goal is to get that 5 to become 10. Thats the common denominator. Game over with 10m at a 3-4% withdrawal.

10m is the marker on the field.

But the difference between 10m and 15m is too large for me to not aim for at least 15m.

 

[Splenda88]

10m is the marker on the field.

But the difference between 10m and 15m is too large for me to not aim for at least 15m.

These are huge numbers.

I wonder if lifestyle with these numbers can be very far apart.

 

[Splenda88]

Anyone here has vacation home?

Do you put it in Airbnb when you are not there? Does it cost a lot of $$$ to maintain?

 

[emergentmd]

10m is the marker on the field.

But the difference between 10m and 15m is too large for me to not aim for at least 15m.

10M is a lot but going from 10M to 15M is probably easier than 1M to 2M.

Once you get to 10M, you can spend 500k/yr and will get to 15M in 10 years just letting it ride the market.

 

[emergentmd]

No matter how much you say you don't, which I'm sure you would say, skill atrophy is definitely a thing.

Working 4 shifts a month no matter how many years you've done this is dangerous for your patients.

This factored into my decision to stop clinical work when I went admin.

I think 4 dys a month is about the minimum esp in a busy hospital based ER. I don't see much atrophy working once a week.

But yes, much less than that does have atrophy happen.

 

[emergentmd]

Anyone here has vacation home?

Do you put it in Airbnb when you are there? Does it cost a lot of $$$ to maintain?

I have some VRBO/AIRBNB homes. Cost to maintain depends where you are at.

On the beach, yes. On the lake, not really. Somewhere inland, not much at all.

We have a few Airbnbs that is within an hour of our house so we can use it when we want. We thought about getting airbnbs on the beach and ski resorts but that seemed to be much more trouble. Plus why not have it concentrated in one area and use the cashflow to rent beach/ski places.

 

[Splenda88]

10M is a lot but going from 10M to 15M is probably easier than 1M to 2M.

Once you get to 10M, you can spend 500k/yr and will get to 15M in 10 years just letting it ride the market.

I went from 400k to 1.3-1.4M in 3 yrs. Hoping to get to 2M in the next 3 yrs.

I remember when I was broke waiting for tax return money to add to my little savings to buy an 18-yr old Honda accord. Good old times.

It kind of dawned on me a few months ago that I am not waiting for the next paycheck to catch up with the bills anymore. I was single at that time making $10+/hr while attending community college.

 

[Porfirio]

I went from 400k to 1.3-1.4M in 3 yrs. Hoping to get to 2M in the next 3 yrs.

I remember when I was broke waiting for tax return money to add to my little savings to buy an 18-yr old Honda accord. Good old times.

It kind of dawned on me a few months ago that I am not waiting for the next paycheck to catch up with the bills anymore. I was single at that time making $10+/hr while attending community college.

I remember being so poor I would walk into a grocery store wishing I could buy fresh vegetables (I wanted a tomato so bad) and I had to buy the canned vegetables.

First year of residency with my wife, we were living in a one bedroom apartment, she had a horse that we paid $300 a month to board (extremely cheap), and she was full time in graduate school. Her parents paid everything for graduate school but we did everything else. I gave her $20 and told her to make it last the week. She laughed at me. She went to Walmart and called me on the phone and asked about using the money for fresh vegetables and I told her to buy the canned. She was completely flabbergasted at the thought.

She knew right then and there she had to get a job while in graduate school. She tutored the LSU football team and local high school kids while going to school. She loved it. We laugh about those times now.

 

[cyanide12345678]

You are not close. You can FIRE right now if you want to.

260k put you/spouse in the 91th percentile of household income

What kind of locum one can make 180k/yr working only ~50 shifts for the whole year? That is 3.5k+ per shift?

Physicians don't seem to realize how fortunate they are. The common folks out there won't believe you if you tell them you can make that kind of money working ONLY 1 day/week.

Prn $295/hr middle of no where location. I do nights there and usually see between 8-12 a shift there in 12 hrs.

I try to do 2 monthly shifts there and am contracted for 9 monthly shifts at my w2 job

 

[cyanide12345678]

More of this FIRE discussion should revolve around coastFIRE. Paid off house and 2M will give you a lot of room to breathe. I don’t think any of us want to stop working completely even if we could.

A paid off house is unnecessary if you have a ridiculously low sub 3.5% mortgage.

I’m never ever paying my 2.75% mortgage

 

[Splenda88]

A paid off house is unnecessary if you have a ridiculously low sub 3.5% mortgage.

I’m never ever paying my 2.75% mortgage

I need that for peace of mind.

 

[hoot504]

No matter how much you say you don't, which I'm sure you would say, skill atrophy is definitely a thing.

Working 4 shifts a month no matter how many years you've done this is dangerous for your patients.

This factored into my decision to stop clinical work when I went admin.

Disagree. I think skill atrophy is way overblown.

Unless you're away for decades and there are literal paradigm shifts in the work-ups of common ED presentations, I don't see it.

I realize no one is doing this, but that's my hunch on the matter.

 

[finalpsychyear]

A paid off house is unnecessary if you have a ridiculously low sub 3.5% mortgage.

I’m never ever paying my 2.75% mortgage

Youll be laughing at ur payment in 10 years from now bc inflation will make it look silly.

I rent a house that wud be 2k more/mo if i had a mortgage vs rent. Also no taxes/maintainence costs.

 

[vm26]

You are not wrong but there are many variables that affects the end total.

1. Any school/personal debt? 300K school debt wipes out the 1-2 years of work.
2 If he had no debt that is 625K/y and assume no tax state and 30% federal is 437k/yr. Say he lives off 137k so saves 300k.yr.
3. 300k/yr x 11 years at market 8% return puts you at 4.4M in 11 years.

4.4 M at 40 yrs old could be FIRE but there are events that could derail this including divorces, bad downturn in the market (remember 2001), inflation. I personally do not think 4.4M at 40yrs old is enough to feel comfortably FIRE. But working 3-4 shifts/month to pay for living expenses til he is 50 would almost guarantee comfortable FIRE as that 4.4M would be close to 10M at historical market returns.

Lots of good info on this thread.

Agree, many variables involved. Student loans, geography, children, elderly parents etc...

Terminology wise, FIRE #, liquid and net worth the same?

You include your 401K, 529 etc into net worth?

Guess I should stop with my mini-payments on my 2.5% interest only mortgage on a house that is 80% paid off

 

[emergentmd]

I was always of the mindset that paying off a 2.5-4% home mortgage loan was silly b/c it is essentially free money. But once my net worth has increased, I rather just pay it off than have think about another loan. I have 150K left on a 2nd home at 2.5% and thinking of just paying it off for peace of mind. But when I see 500K on a 7.5% loan for another property, paying it off makes little sense.

 

[emergentmd]

Lots of good info on this thread.

Agree, many variables involved. Student loans, geography, children, elderly parents etc...

Terminology wise, FIRE #, liquid and net worth the same?

You include your 401K, 529 etc into net worth?

Guess I should stop with my mini-payments on my 2.5% interest only mortgage on a house that is 80% paid off

I think FIRE is just what you want in retirement and if you want legacy.

Someone happy to live off 100K is different than someone wanting 400K when they stop working vs someone who wants to live off 400K while not touching their FIRE number.

I think almost everyone would say everything +/- your homestead counts towards FIRE.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I was always of the mindset that paying off a 2.5-4% home mortgage loan was silly b/c it is essentially free money. But once my net worth has increased, I rather just pay it off than have think about another loan. I have 150K left on a 2nd home at 2.5% and thinking of just paying it off for peace of mind. But when I see 500K on a 7.5% loan for another property, paying it off makes little sense.

If someone gave me money at 2.5%, I'll take a million dollars and invest it. I'm 100% sure I have the ability to beat 2.5%. That's below inflation itself. I dont know why having a mortgage paid off makes people feel safe.

Having liquid investments that can be tapped at any point of my life makes me feel safe.