chemdoctor

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Hello.

Just curious if there are schools that do this? I saw threads on here but most of them seem to be at least five years old. I was wondering if schools like BU still take your last 32 credit hours?

Also, how does this match up to MSAR? MSAR reports GPAs of a lot higher than what I see here. Is that bc they only take the last 32 hours? Thanks.
 
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seanm028

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What does that mean?
LSU New Orleans has an official, publicized policy on their website about their 32-hour rule.

Other schools, like BU, have been known to use a 32-hour rule, but there isn't any official policy (at least not one that is public). I think this gives them the option to be flexible and maybe apply the rule differently in some instances (just speculating, here).
 
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chemdoctor

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LSU New Orleans has an official, publicized policy on their website about their 32-hour rule.

Other schools, like BU, have been known to use a 32-hour rule, but there isn't any official policy (at least not one that is public). I think this gives them the option to be flexible and maybe apply the rule differently in some instances (just speculating, here).

LSU does the rule but I THINK its only for post bacs no? And BU... never thought they're reinvention accepting schools. But...

How does MSAR compare to this? is that why BU's is so high?

@Goro
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Systemic

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LSU New Orleans has an official policy. I always understood that other schools (like BU) have unofficial policies.

Out of curiosity, is this reflected when they submit data to MSAR?

For example, when one looks at the cGPA and sGPA of matriculated students on the MSAR for LSU-NO, is that including the 32 hour rule GPAs that "replaced" the full GPA?
 
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chemdoctor

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Out of curiosity, is this reflected when they submit data to MSAR?

For example, when one looks at the cGPA and sGPA of matriculated students on the MSAR for LSU-NO, is that including the 32 hour rule GPAs that "replaced" the full GPA?

My question exactly 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

gonnif

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Out of curiosity, is this reflected when they submit data to MSAR?

For example, when one looks at the cGPA and sGPA of matriculated students on the MSAR for LSU-NO, is that including the 32 hour rule GPAs that "replaced" the full GPA?
No. MSAR data is from aggregate AMCAS GPA calculations. Any school specific policy that formally replaces GPA is not, repeat, not captured by MSAR
 
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chemdoctor

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No. MSAR data is from aggregate AMCAS GPA calculations. Any school specific policy that formally replaces GPA is not, repeat, not captured by MSAR

Oh man. I was excited in thinking I had a chance at Tufts or BU LOL
 
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seanm028

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What exactly does a “32 hour rule” do? Is senioritis really that bad?
Every school is a little bit different, but in general:

If you've taken classes after you received your bachelor's degree (e.g., post-bacc or graduate classes), the schools will look at your GPA from the most recent 32 credit hours as if that is your overall GPA.
 
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seanm028

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For example:
The 32-Hour Policy was a policy adopted by the LSU-New Orleans Admissions Committee many years ago. This policy allows for an applicant to obtain 32 or more post-baccalaureate hours of coursework in biology, chemistry, physics or mathematics. The admissions committee would then consider the GPA for those 32 or more hours to be that applicant’s GPA for the medical school application process. This policy allows for those applicants to distance themselves from a weaker undergraduate GPA which may otherwise hinder them from gaining acceptance into our medical school.
 
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Every school is a little bit different, but in general:

If you've taken classes after you received your bachelor's degree (e.g., post-bacc or graduate classes), the schools will look at your GPA from the most recent 32 credit hours as if that is your overall GPA.
Interesting. That’s a pretty cool policy for those who have taken post bachelor credits, but it feels kind of silly to not extend that same rule towards people who had bad freshman years or rough starts. I know many people who have f4.0 or are high 3.8 3.9 for their junior and senior year but low threes or mid twos for their freshman year. Anything that helps anyone is good, just seems odd.
 
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KnightDoc

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Interesting. That’s a pretty cool policy for those who have taken post bachelor credits, but it feels kind of silly to not extend that same rule towards people who had bad freshman years or rough starts. I know many people who have f4.0 or are high 3.8 3.9 for their junior and senior year but low threes or mid twos for their freshman year. Anything that helps anyone is good, just seems odd.
Not really. The 4 year GPA is the baseline. If they did what you are suggesting, you could literally screw around for your first 90 credits with absolutely no consequence, as long as you did well at the end.

If you go from low 3s your first two years to high 3s the last two, you'll have a GPA in the mid 3s, with a strong upward trend, and will be fine without needing this policy. If you go from the mid 2s to the high 3s, and are treated exactly the same as someone who was high 3s all along, with no additional post-bacc work, how is that fair, and why would the school prefer that over someone who maintained consistently excellent performance all 4 years?

The point is to give you an opportunity to remediate through extra work, not merely to throw out under performance in the first 75% of your UG career as long as you get it together by the end. Maybe if you look at it like that it will make more sense?
 
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Not really. The 4 year GPA is the baseline. If they did what you are suggesting, you could literally screw around for your first 90 credits with absolutely no consequence, as long as you did well at the end.

If you go from low 3s your first two years to high 3s the last two, you'll have a GPA in the mid 3s, with a strong upward trend, and will be fine without needing this policy. If you go from the mid 2s to the high 3s, and are treated exactly the same as someone who was high 3s all along, with no additional post-bacc work, how is that fair, and why would the school prefer that over someone who maintained consistently excellent performance all 4 years?

The point is to give you an opportunity to remediate through extra work, not merely to throw out under performance in the first 75% of your UG career as long as you get it together by the end. Maybe if you look at it like that it will make more sense?
How is someone who under performed for three years then got back on track for one looked at less favorably than someone who under performed for four years then got back on track for one?

“ we only throw out 100% of undergrad, not 75%!”

no, the uneven application of that policy doesn’t make sense to me. It’s still awesome that they have policies like that, it’s very very much helps nontraditional applicants and anything that helps out a population without hurting anyone else is fantastic I love it. It’s still just strange to me. What if someone under performed for two years took three years off of school and came back and Excelled for the rest of undergrad? I feel as if those cases are much more common than post bachelorette credits. I would rather policies like this be based on the context of the applicant, not the context of the number of credits they have more whether the credits came after graduation or not.

But what do I know, I’m not in admissions.
 

KnightDoc

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How is someone who under performed for three years then got back on track for one looked at less favorably than someone who under performed for four years then got back on track for one?

no, the uneven application of that policy doesn’t make sense to me. It’s still awesome that they have policies like that, it’s very very much helps nontraditional applicants and anything that helps out a population without hurting anyone else is fantastic I love it. It’s still just strange to me. What if someone under performed for two years took three years off of school and came back and Excelled for the rest of undergrad? I feel as if those cases are much more common than post bachelorette credits. I would rather policies like this be based on the context of the applicant, not the context of the number of credits they have more whether the credits came after graduation or not.

But what do I know, I’m not in admissions.
Because the latter performed an act of penance, by doing extra work, post graduation, while the former didn't. I don't think the issue is one being more qualified than the other. To me, it's just that they want the extra work to justify looking past the early poor performance.

I'm also not in admissions. I'm only expressing an opinion based on what makes sense to me.

Everyone has to get a bachelors degree, whether they do it in two years straight through with dual enrollment in HS, or in 10 years with plenty of gaps. Excusing early bad performance for some but not all candidates (i.e., maybe only looking at the last year or two for everyone), is the very definition of an uneven application of a policy, so it isn't done, formally, although there are some schools that reward significant upward trends in UG, which is a form of giving less weight to the early years.

So, the issue isn't really that it's one year of work, who cares when it was done? The requirement is to compel extra work, beyond that required for the degree. It's not unfair, because you can avoid it, like many people do, simply by not messing up in UG. Also, the benefits are not limited to those who mess up early and then improve. You can tank all 4 years, or have a downward trend, and still take advantage of the policy, so there's that!

It's totally understandable that you would prefer a policy that benefited your situation, without requiring extra work or expense, but the whole idea of the policy is to require extra work (if not expense) to make it fair to people who didn't screw up early. The alternative isn't to just look at whatever is most favorable to each candidate. It's to not do this at all and to just look at the entire 4 years and proceed accordingly, as many school currently do. Remember, schools don't exactly need to be beating the bushes looking for viable candidates to fill their classes.

This is a benefit provided by a select few schools to allow people to overcome a subpar UG record and still be admitted. Schools' challenge in general is to whittle down applications to a manageable number, which is why so many people with very decent applications don't receive IIs. It's not to find a way to look most favorably on each applicant in order to scrounge up enough people to interview.

Also, there is no such thing as something that helps someone without hurting someone else in med school admissions. The number of spots at each school is fixed. Every spot given to a non-trad who had a bad UG wiped away under the 32 credit policy means someone else, maybe someone with a solid 4 year GPA, is not occupying that seat. Regardless of what the adcoms on SDN say, med school admissions is a zero sum game at the end of the day, and we truly are competing with everyone else as well as with ourselves. Any benefit given to one subset of the pool has to result in something being taken away from someone else in the pool. It's basic math.
 
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Screamapillar

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LSU New Orleans has an official policy. I always understood that other schools (like BU) have unofficial policies.
IIRC BU used to have this as an official rule, but got rid of it a few years back. Wayne State still has an official policy that is pretty popular, believe it requires 24 credits of post-bacc.
 
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greysloan03

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Wake Forest does it well something similar

“A minimum science/BCPM GPA of 3.2 is required to be reviewed by admissions. Applicants who do not meet the undergraduate science/BCPM GPA of a 3.2 and have completed at least 15 hours of either post-baccalaureate or graduate science coursework with a 3.2 average at the time of AMCAS verification will be reviewed by the Dean of Admissions upon completion.”

i remember the associate dean of admissions or someone high up commenting under an instagram post from a popular premed page mentioning at 32 hour rule or gpa replacement based on a certain number of credits completed
 
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