AA totally out of control?

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For now a totally different prespective, minority black and hispanics make a much larger % of the military than their respective 13 and 15% of the US population AND a much larger % of the battle casualities than even their disproportionate representation in the services would indicate. (Yet they comprise a tiny percentage of political positions)

Maybe the solution would be to give AA status only to veteran minorities, especially now considering the military is in dire need of dedicated medical personnel.

I would rather see minority candidates who spent 3 years in the USMC and graduated from a ho-hum state school at med school than flag-burning, dope-smoking Berkeley grads who scraped by with 3.0..(not that I have anything against Cal, just an example).
 
Maybe the solution would be to give AA status only to veteran minorities, especially now considering the military is in dire need of dedicated medical personnel.
The fact that a disproportionately high number of blacks and latinos need to go in to the military to make a future for themselves is exactly why we need programs like AA.
 
How about one SIMPLE request: if you are gonna use and abuse affirmative action, can the people at least be legal citizens...

Students stormed the stage at Columbia University's Roone auditorium yesterday, knocking over chairs and tables and attacking Jim Gilchrist, the founder of the Minutemen, a group that patrols the border between America and Mexico...

The student protesters, who attended the event clad in white as a sign of dissent, booed and shouted the speakers down throughout. They interrupted Mr. Stewart, who is African-American, when he referred to the Declaration of Independence's self-evident truth that "All men are created equal," calling him a racist, a sellout, and a black white supremacist.

This is insane. Columbia is a total disgrace. I piss on the school and its graduates.
 
"All men are created equal," calling him a racist, a sellout, and a black white supremacist.


WHIIIAAAT POWR!!!

chappelle.jpg
 
Perhaps we can all agree that in a multicultural and multiracial society such as the ones we live in, tensions arise and sometimes, feelings that we never knew we had arise. It's quite alright of course to feel the way that we do - even if others label you racist, they fail to understand how complicated the interaction between local experiences, perception of self, our natural inclinations, etc are. Threads like these demonstrate to me that just because you're an MD or have received higher education, does not make you all that educated or englightened. We're living in a complicated society and we're getting by...not w/o challenges of course, but it's the challenges that help us grow no?
 
not w/o challenges of course, but it's the challenges that help us grow no?

No? Are ya forner Urepean er sumthin? We don't likes yer kind round dese perts. Go back to yer country. Whiiaat powr.

ClaytonBigsby.jpg
 
First of all, I'd like to preface this by saying that the majority of my african american friends did well with MCATs/GPAs. I went to a top school and all the racism and the sterotyping by people like you made me bust my butt to get great grades...thanks. I personally am tired of you all ASSUMING/STEREOTYPING that ALL URMs score lower and are underserving applicants. And yes I agree, the average MCAT is lower for URMs. Why do you think the average is so low? It will remain that way too if people don't stop making these condescending statements toward other people. For example, one of my pre-med advisors told the black students to aim for a 24 on the MCAT, and this is at at top 15 school! Again, offensive. Why should we aim low when they tell other students they need atleast a thirty to get into schools. I desire to go to a tier one school and a 24 won't cut it for me. Even if the scores are lower, why do you ASSUME these individuals are not capable/deserving of becoming great physicians? You don't know anything about these people or what obstacles they had to face/overcome.

What scares me the ignorant posters in here will be physicians, and all this sterotyping comes with an expense: the health of african american people. Since you want to discuss statistics, lower MCAT Scores, GPAs, etc this is the latest on cardiovascular health disparities. Minorities are 10% less likely to be diagnosed with an emergency heart situation, 30% less likely to be tested for artery blockage, 40% less likely to be treated with angioplasty and 50% less likely to undergo cardiac surgery...ALL DUE TO STEREOTYPING. This means tens of thousands of AA die annually because of stereotyping by physicians. Given this, i don't care is the mean average on the MCAT is lower! I don't care that you scolled on MDapplicants and noticed a gap! What about the huge gap in health disparities, future physician? We need black physicians for this very reason! And if that means that for SOME black people, a drop the MCAT and or GPA is accepted, then so be it! All I'm saying is that people need to stop making generalizations. Every time I log on to this darn forum I see a racist or condescending comment. These attitudes produce unhealthy effects that are contrary to the hippocratic oath. C'mon, do no harm people!! Instead of focusing on who's getting in, why don't you open a public health book and focus on population health.

Yes, I'm african american for those of you who are wondering.
 
Isnt it even MORE insulting to be a URM, actually gain admission to med school based on your own merit, and still have people questioning whether you got in based on AA???

the truth sucks huh?
 
Isnt it even MORE insulting to be a URM, actually gain admission to med school based on your own merit, and still have people questioning whether you got in based on AA???

the truth sucks huh?

You missed the whole point. Because of my skin color people will always assume that I have lower stats or lower ability, that's fine I can prove them wrong. But I am less concerned about that and more concerned about the admission of physicians who will do more harm than good to minority patients in the long run. That's what bothers me the most.
 
Another ignorant future doctor. Thank you for being insulting to URM's once again. THis is my usual post for ignorant people like you. Enjoy.

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First of all, I'd like to preface this by saying that the majority of my african american friends did well with MCATs/GPAs. I went to a top school and all the racsism and the sterotyping by people like you made me bust my butt to get great grades...thanks. I personally am tired of you all ASSUMING/STEREOTYPING that ALL URMs score lower and are underserving applicants. And yes I agree, the average MCAT is lower for URMs. Why do you think the average is so low? It will remain that way too if people don't stop making these condescending statements toward other people. For example, one of my pre-med advisors told the black students to aim for a 24 on the MCAT, and this is at at top 15 school! Again, offensive. Why should we aim low when they tell other students they need atleast a thirty to get into schools. I desire to go to a tier one school and a 24 won't cut it for me. Even if the scores are lower, why do you ASSUME these individuals are not capable/deserving of becoming great physicians? You don't know anything about these people or what obstacles they had to face/overcome.

What scares me is that all you ignorant posters will one day be physicians, and all this sterotyping comes with an expense: the health of african american people. Since you want to discuss statistics, lower MCAT Scores, GPAs, etc this is the latest on cardiovascular health disparities. Minorities are 10% less likely to be diagnosed with an emergency heart situation, 30% less likely to be tested for artery blockage, 40% less likely to be treated with angioplasty and 50% less likely to undergo cardiac surgery...ALL DUE TO STEREOTYPING. This means tens of thousands of AA die annually because of stereotyping by physicians. Given this, i don't care is the mean average on the MCAT is lower! I don't care that you scolled on MDapplicants and noticed a gap! What about the huge gap in health disparities, future physician? We need black physicians for this very reason! And if that means that for SOME black people, a drop the MCAT and or GPA is accepted, then so be it! All I'm saying is that people need to stop making generalizations. Every time I log on to this darn forum I see a racist or condescending comment. These attitudes produce unhealthy effects that are contrary to the hippocratic oath. C'mon, do no harm people!! Instead of focusing on who's getting in, why don't you open a public health book and focus on population health.

Yes, I'm african american for those of you who are wondering.


I already tried to tell everyone this. Apparenly the health and care part about healthcare was forgotten, and people think that race being considered in admissions is not worth improving these health care disparities. I doubt anyone will even respond to your post, because everytime i begin to talk about disparities its ignored. Really I dont even think its worth explaining anymore, Ive resorted to stop whining and suck it up because its not changing, since everyone in this forum is too close minded to see that yes there are health disparities among the races in america, and this is whats being done to help fix them.
 
You missed the whole point. Because of my skin color people will always assume that I have lower stats or lower ability, that's fine I can prove them wrong. But I am less concerned about that and more concerned about the admission of physicians who will do more harm than good to minority patients in the long run. That's what bothers me the most.

Who's fault is it that URMs receive crappy healthcare? Look no further than the URM applicants themselves. Not only are there not enough of them applying, but many of the ones that ARE applying have highly underqualified. People on this thread have told anti-AA people to stop whining about AA. Hm...I wonder how AA got implemented in the first place? By URMs whining *GASP*!!!! URMs should only blame themselves for their current state of healthcare. If they weren't b!tching for handouts and working hard to improve themselves like Asians are, they'd get somewhere.
 
Isnt it even MORE insulting to be a URM, actually gain admission to med school based on your own merit, and still have people questioning whether you got in based on AA???

the truth sucks huh?
Frankly i also could care less about what people think of me. Actually, its always provided motivation that people can think this way, and then test scores come back and they wonder what happened. Also, based on this thinking that you posted, I could question whites being there on their own merit and think that all the white people in class were accepted either because their daddy graduated from that school, donated money, or knew somebody. And then I could question all the asians who are in the class whether they really want to help people, or whether their parents made them go to med school to bring honor to the family. That thinkings wrong though and I am not prejudiced unlike some on this board
 
First of all, I'd like to preface this by saying that the majority of my african american friends did well with MCATs/GPAs. I went to a top school and all the racism and the sterotyping by people like you made me bust my butt to get great grades...thanks. I personally am tired of you all ASSUMING/STEREOTYPING that ALL URMs score lower and are underserving applicants. And yes I agree, the average MCAT is lower for URMs. Why do you think the average is so low? It will remain that way too if people don't stop making these condescending statements toward other people. For example, one of my pre-med advisors told the black students to aim for a 24 on the MCAT, and this is at at top 15 school! Again, offensive. Why should we aim low when they tell other students they need atleast a thirty to get into schools. I desire to go to a tier one school and a 24 won't cut it for me. Even if the scores are lower, why do you ASSUME these individuals are not capable/deserving of becoming great physicians? You don't know anything about these people or what obstacles they had to face/overcome.

What scares me the ignorant posters in here will be physicians, and all this sterotyping comes with an expense: the health of african american people. Since you want to discuss statistics, lower MCAT Scores, GPAs, etc this is the latest on cardiovascular health disparities. Minorities are 10% less likely to be diagnosed with an emergency heart situation, 30% less likely to be tested for artery blockage, 40% less likely to be treated with angioplasty and 50% less likely to undergo cardiac surgery...ALL DUE TO STEREOTYPING. This means tens of thousands of AA die annually because of stereotyping by physicians. Given this, i don't care is the mean average on the MCAT is lower! I don't care that you scolled on MDapplicants and noticed a gap! What about the huge gap in health disparities, future physician? We need black physicians for this very reason! And if that means that for SOME black people, a drop the MCAT and or GPA is accepted, then so be it! All I'm saying is that people need to stop making generalizations. Every time I log on to this darn forum I see a racist or condescending comment. These attitudes produce unhealthy effects that are contrary to the hippocratic oath. C'mon, do no harm people!! Instead of focusing on who's getting in, why don't you open a public health book and focus on population health.

Yes, I'm african american for those of you who are wondering.

👍 👍
 
I have a question for you pro-AA people: Would you rather be a young African American male in the ghetto, or a young Asian immigrant male in the ghetto who can't speak a word of English, don't understand American custom/culture (resulting in him getting made fun of all the time), and don't have a political voice in this country? I've said it before. If I were a URM instead of an ORM, I would have achieved MUCH more success in life, due to the # of doors open to me.
 
You missed the whole point. Because of my skin color people will always assume that I have lower stats or lower ability, that's fine I can prove them wrong. But I am less concerned about that and more concerned about the admission of physicians who will do more harm than good to minority patients in the long run. That's what bothers me the most.


edit:
Also, I do believe that a URM with lower stats is capable of being a great physician! I have reason to believe that they will be less likely to stereotype and do more harm and good. I hope you can say the same about yourself.
 
Who's fault is it that URMs receive crappy healthcare? Look no further than the URM applicants themselves. Not only are there not enough of them applying, but many of the ones that ARE applying have highly underqualified. People on this thread have told anti-AA people to stop whining about AA. Hm...I wonder how AA got implemented in the first place? By URMs whining *GASP*!!!! URMs should only blame themselves for their current state of healthcare. If they weren't b!tching for handouts and working hard to improve themselves like Asians are, they'd get somewhere.

Righhtttt... So its the URMS fault that they can't get proper healthcare from over represented races in health care... Wow i really hope that if you become a doctor you don't practice somewhere where youll get urm patients
 
I already tried to tell everyone this. Apparenly the health and care part about healthcare was forgotten, and people think that race being considered in admissions is not worth improving these health care disparities. I doubt anyone will even respond to your post, because everytime i begin to talk about disparities its ignored. Really I dont even think its worth explaining anymore, Ive resorted to stop whining and suck it up because its not changing, since everyone in this forum is too close minded to see that yes there are health disparities among the races in america, and this is whats being done to help fix them.

Its not whining, its education. I'm looking at a through a public health perspective, not a racist one. And everytime I see ignorance I will comment.
 
I already tried to tell everyone this. Apparenly the health and care part about healthcare was forgotten, and people think that race being considered in admissions is not worth improving these health care disparities. I doubt anyone will even respond to your post, because everytime i begin to talk about disparities its ignored. Really I dont even think its worth explaining anymore, Ive resorted to stop whining and suck it up because its not changing, since everyone in this forum is too close minded to see that yes there are health disparities among the races in america, and this is whats being done to help fix them.

I agree with you on the fact that its not worth explaining anymore. Most of these people on here are too ignorant to see the problems in health care and they don't care nothing about fixing health care disparities. I just wish they would assume some personal responsibility and quit blamming us. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, so oh well. It's too bad that we still have to deal with the same bull**** everyday 😡 . But it's cool because all they are doing is making us stronger 😀 . We are going to keep applying and we are going to keep getting in because we worked hard and deserved it!
 
Its not whining, its education. I'm looking at a through a public health perspective, not a racist one. And everytime I see ignorance I will comment.

???? I'm agreeing with you, Im talking about those who make new threads everyday about how unfailr AA is, and dont really care about these health disparites. I think you misunderstood my post 😕
 
I have a question for you pro-AA people: Would you rather be a young African American male in the ghetto, or a young Asian immigrant male in the ghetto who can't speak a word of English, don't understand American custom/culture (resulting in him getting made fun of all the time), and don't have a political voice in this country? I've said it before. If I were a URM instead of an ORM, I would have achieved MUCH more success in life, due to the # of doors open to me.

Hello, don't you see successful minorities around you? By the way, not all of these people come from the ghetto...sheesh.
 
Righhtttt... So its the URMS fault that they can't get proper healthcare from over represented races in health care... Wow i really hope that if you become a doctor you don't practice somewhere where youll get urm patients

No it is due to physicians that stereotype. Go back and read the post.
 
You missed the whole point. Because of my skin color people will always assume that I have lower stats or lower ability, that's fine I can prove them wrong. But I am less concerned about that and more concerned about the admission of physicians who will do more harm than good to minority patients in the long run. That's what bothers me the most.

Well, one thing that I've noticed is that most people have hold some prejudiced views but don't usually act on it. I'm sure that even though ether -who sounds kinda racist and ignorant about the AA issue - is not actually racist...that is, he doesn't hate blacks and if he ever had black patients, he would treat them like any other patient. Hopefully, if he ever becomes an admissions committee member, he won't act on his prejudiced views such as by not admitting a black applicant...
 
No it is due to physicians that stereotype. Go back and read the post.
😕 😕 I dont think you understand that I am agreeing with you. Believe me, i know of all the disparities and why they occur, Im currently attend Howard University college of medicine and we have a whole class for health disparities, which actually i think should be implemented at the majority schools also since they don't believe such a thing as health disparities actually exist
 
I agree with you on the fact that its not worth explaining anymore. Most of these people on here are too ignorant to see the problems in health care and they don't care nothing about fixing health care disparities. I just wish they would assume some personal responsibility and quit blamming us. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, so oh well. It's too bad that we still have to deal with the same bull**** everyday 😡 . But it's cool because all they are doing is making us stronger 😀 . We are going to keep applying and we are going to keep getting in because we worked hard and deserved it!

Yes, it's true. All this negative energy in this thread against AA, trust me, I am not moved. I do see the ignorance and acknowledge it but I don't let racism and ignorance upset me. I just focus my energy into doing well. I just hope to educate some of the ignorance because it does impact OUR health as a people and other minorities.
 
You missed the whole point. Because of my skin color people will always assume that I have lower stats or lower ability, that's fine I can prove them wrong. But I am less concerned about that and more concerned about the admission of physicians who will do more harm than good to minority patients in the long run. That's what bothers me the most.

Do more harm than good?? Oooo wow you are seriously ignorant of history. Lets take a trip down memory lane:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/08/14/BA176354.DTL

Patrick Chavis, a former Los Angeles area physician whose medical career was cited by both supporters and opponents of affirmative action as evidence for their case, was killed July 23 in Los Angeles. He was 50.

A spokesman for the Los Angeles County sheriff's homicide office said Dr. Chavis was shot during a carjacking. The spokesman said Dr. Chavis was leaving a store and entering his car when three men attempted to take his car and shot him.

Dr. Chavis received a degree of fame through the quest of Allan Bakke to gain admission to the medical school at UC Davis in the 1970s. The medical school rejected the application of Bakke, who was white, but accepted five black applicants, including Dr. Chavis, who had lower test scores and lower college grades than Bakke. The five won admission under a special racial- preference quota.

Bakke sued. What became a landmark case, Bakke vs. Regents of the Board of the University of California, reached the U.S. Supreme Court, where the school's affirmative action program was struck down in 1978. The court maintained that while an applicant's race could be used as an admissions factor, it could not be the only factor. Bakke was admitted to the school and later graduated, as did Dr. Chavis.

There it might all have ended but for the partisans on both sides of the affirmative action issue. By 1995, Bakke was an anesthesiologist in Rochester, Minn., and Dr. Chavis was an obstetrician-gynecologist in an inner-city section of Los Angeles, where his patients were largely poor women of color.

Then, it all started to go wrong for Dr. Chavis.

Dr. Chavis lost his medical license in 1997. He had switched his practice to cosmetic surgery, including liposuction, areas in which he met with difficulties and was accused of malpractice.

An administrative law judge found Dr. Chavis guilty of gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three women, one of whom died, and the California medical board suspended his license.

PLEASE, eat some humble PIE, it's on me🙂 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If your point is that underqualified URMs accepted under AA policies can KILL other URMs, then I guess I agree with you!
 
Well, one thing that I've noticed is that most people have hold some prejudiced views but don't usually act on it. I'm sure that even though ether -who sounds kinda racist and ignorant about the AA issue - is not actually racist...that is, he doesn't hate blacks and if he ever had black patients, he would treat them like any other patient. Hopefully, if he ever becomes an admissions committee member, he won't act on his prejudiced views such as by not admitting a black applicant...

whether they act on it or not, the ignorance does impact applicants. Not me, but others. Like I said, I'm sure my pre-professional advisor was not racist, ignorant maybe, but not racist. She told us to aim for a 24 on the MCAT because that is what she thought we needed to get. I am sure 1 or 2 people probably took her seriously. The ignorance does have an impact on people. I mean, these people will likely be my peers in med school.
 
Do more harm than good?? Oooo wow you are seriously ignorant of history. Lets take a trip down memory lane:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/08/14/BA176354.DTL



PLEASE, eat some humble PIE, it's on me🙂 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Wow, one example of someone losing their license. Because no white or asian doctors lose their licenses right?????? LOL this is almost comical now. Someone found 1 case in which a minority lost their license and suddenly that means that URMS with slightly lower stats are unfit to practice. Give me a break. I could pull up hundreds upon hundreds of whites and asians losing their license. Please come up with something a little better 😴
 
I agree with you on the fact that its not worth explaining anymore. Most of these people on here are too ignorant to see the problems in health care and they don't care nothing about fixing health care disparities. I just wish they would assume some personal responsibility and quit blamming us. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, so oh well. It's too bad that we still have to deal with the same bull**** everyday 😡 . But it's cool because all they are doing is making us stronger 😀 . We are going to keep applying and we are going to keep getting in because we worked hard and deserved it!

Yes, but does this help your black community in general? It's perfectly fine that most people strongly identify with their "race" rather than their own individual experience - we're too pathetic as a species to do that.

But my point is, you sure as h*ll should not expect the current establishment to help your community's issues because all they have come up with is AA. You are the future and it will be up to people like you and me to get the ball moving so that in a few generations (sadly we won't be around to see this), these disparities will be elminated.

Once you become successful and established - don't just rake in the dough and kiss the "when you walk into a medical school and look at the portraits on the wall, it's all the same kind of people" a$$es. Take charge and get involved with politics perhaps, make the right connections, and don't forget about the unfortunate ones that AA addresses but doesn't actually help.
 
More info:

Affirmative Action Turns Lives Into Tragedies
Chavis' life was a Shakespearean tragedy because of affirmative action. While Sen. Ted Kennedy, the New York Times, the Nation and all network news programs profiled Dr. Chavis as an example of what affirmative action can do, there are some data discrepancies. Chavis had no business being a doctor. Upon completion of his residency in 1981 at Long Beach Memorial Hospital, he was hired there at a low level. He shouted racism and was promoted to associate staff physician.


But by 1988, hospital staffers monitored his work after a panel of physicians and administrators reprimanded him for a forceps delivery. Chavis cried racism again through a discrimination suit. A jury awarded him $1.1 million (later overturned). Chavis then undertook the noble arts of abortions and liposuctions, or "body sculpting," as he called it.


He was sued for malpractice 27 times, had medical board complaints filed in seven liposuction cases and was accused of causing the death of one liposuction patient whom he left in his office as her incisions oozed red fluid. The patient died there of "massive blood loss." A tape made during his liposuction procedures finds "horrific screaming" by his patients as Chavis offers this bedside banter, "Don't talk to the doctor while he is working," and "Liar, liar, pants on fire."


A judge suspended his license in 1997, writing in an 11-page opinion that Chavis "demonstrates an inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a physician." The Medical Board of California revoked his license in 1998 for "gross negligence, incompetence and repeated negligent acts." Dr. Chavis blamed racist "white male" physicians for his problems. Kennedy called him a "successful OB/GYN in central Los Angeles." Sure, if "successful" means death and dismemberment. Chavis was a disgrace to the medical profession. But his disgrace is a byproduct of affirmative action.
 
Wow, two examples of someone losing their licenses. Because no white or asian doctors lose their licenses right?????? LOL this is almost comical now. Someone found 2 cases in which a minority lost their license and suddenly that means that URMS with slightly lower stats are unfit to practice. Give me a break. I could pull up hundreds upon hundreds of whites and asians losing their license. Please come up with something a little better 😴

Umm Chavis was the guy AA policies WERE BASED ON! He was the model on why we needed AA for medical school admissions. Is the irony lost on you??

Would you want this guy operating on your mother or sister? FFS, minorities have enough to deal with without insensitive adcoms and med schools releasing butchers upon them as well!!!
 
AA should definitely be based on social status, background, and income. It should NOT be based upon race. There are plenty of disadvantaged Asian people everywhere.
 
Do more harm than good?? Oooo wow you are seriously ignorant of history. Lets take a trip down memory lane:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/08/14/BA176354.DTL



PLEASE, eat some humble PIE, it's on me🙂 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If your point is that underqualified URMs accepted under AA policies can KILL other URMs, then I guess I agree with you!

Well, I commend you for trying to research. Good for you. I'm not saying all physicians that are black will do more harm than good. That is a very ignorant and stupid statement. I said ignorant people who stereotyped minorities. I have plenty of white friends who are future physicians that are not ignorant or racist and I know they will be great doctors. I'm not that closed minded. The whole idea of admitting more minority physicians is to decreased stereotyping and lower fatalities due to cultural competancy. There are alot of doctors, obviously, due to the stats that are resulting in less than substantial healthcare for minorities.
 
Wow, one example of someone losing their license. Because no white or asian doctors lose their licenses right?????? LOL this is almost comical now. Someone found 1 case in which a minority lost their license and suddenly that means that URMS with slightly lower stats are unfit to practice. Give me a break. I could pull up hundreds upon hundreds of whites and asians losing their license. Please come up with something a little better 😴

This is what scares me, they should add questions similar to that of this thread in interviews to weed out ignorant or shall i say dangerous doctors.
 
😕 😕 I dont think you understand that I am agreeing with you. Believe me, i know of all the disparities and why they occur, Im currently attend Howard University college of medicine and we have a whole class for health disparities, which actually i think should be implemented at the majority schools also since they don't believe such a thing as health disparities actually exist

lol, sorry. I'm trying to answer everyone at once, lol. Yeah, I agree. Good luck at Howard!!
 
Well, I commend you for trying to research. Good for you. I'm not saying all physicians that are black will do more harm than good. That is a very ignorant and stupid statement. I said ignorant people who stereotyped minorities. I have plenty of white friends who are future physicians that are not ignorant or racist and I know they will be great doctors. I'm not that closed minded. The whole idea of admitting more minority physicians is to decreased stereotyping and lower fatalities due to cultural competancy. There are alot of doctors, obviously, due to the stats that are resulting in less than substantial healthcare for minorities.

The crazy thing is there are some black and hispanic docs who are incredible, literally the best and brightest. people who would have been accepted to the Harvards and Stanfords without AA, and here comes this ass monkey Richard Chavis killing poor people in South Central...where is the justice??

if you are brilliant and black, its a no win for you and that sucks. Where are the URMs with 130+ IQ who can kick academic ass without AA? I know you are out there...
 
Umm Chavis was the guy AA policies WERE BASED ON! He was the model on why we needed AA for medical school admissions. Is the irony lost on you??

Would you want this guy operating on your mother or sister? FFS, minorities have enough to deal with without insensitive adcoms and med schools releasing butchers upon them as well!!!

Still, it is one isolated incident and doesnt reflect on race being considered at all. That would be VERY ignorant to say that one incident reflects on a whole system. And yeah thats an unfortunate incident and he should have never been a doctor at all, but this doesnt reflect on anybody but himself.
 
AA should definitely be based on social status, background, and income. It should NOT be based upon race. There are plenty of disadvantaged Asian people everywhere.

I would be thrilled to see disadvanatged people from all races get in, trust me!!! But you are missing the point. You people care more about admission of 1 doctor than the lives of tens of thousands of minorities and you want to be physicians. It one race of people are suffering deleterious effects due to low numbers of african americans, why not increase admission! Why is this so hard to understand. Trust me, if there were only asian, black, latino doctors and white americans were suffering ill effects, then increase the numbers of white doctors.
 
Here are some stats from a study

Compared with white men:

—Reperfusion therapy was given 3 percent less often to white women, 9 percent less often to black men, and 11 percent less often to black women.

—Heart angiography — using dye injections to get critical information about blood flow to the heart — was used 9 percent less often in white women, 18 percent less often in black men, and 24 percent less often in black women.

—Black women had an 11 percent higher risk of dying from a heart attack.

These differences did not narrow over the study's eight-year time span.
 
I have a question for you pro-AA people: Would you rather be a young African American male in the ghetto, or a young Asian immigrant male in the ghetto who can't speak a word of English, don't understand American custom/culture (resulting in him getting made fun of all the time), and don't have a political voice in this country? I've said it before. If I were a URM instead of an ORM, I would have achieved MUCH more success in life, due to the # of doors open to me.


The idiot speaks yet again:
If I were a URM instead of an ORM, I would have achieved MUCH more success in life, due to the # of doors open to me.

You are sadly mistaken!
 
The crazy thing is there are some black and hispanic docs who are incredible, literally the best and brightest. people who would have been accepted to the Harvards and Stanfords without AA, and here comes this ass monkey Richard Chavis killing poor people in South Central...where is the justice??

if you are brilliant and black, its a no win for you and that sucks. Where are the URMs with 130+ IQ who can kick academic ass without AA? I know you are out there...

Again with the generalizations, you stereotype too much. There are plenty of AA's with great MCATS and GPAs. Hello! African american does not equal 3.0, 20 on MCAT...that's the first thing i said.
 
This stuff was reported on FOX NEWS, of all networks lol

For decades, it's been no secret that when people need major surgery, they are much less likely to get it if they are black.

"In the early to mid-1990s, there were a bunch of initiatives, both on the national and local/state level, to do something about reducing these disparities," Harvard researcher Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH, tells WebMD. "We wanted to know whether, given all this attention, things are getting better."

Jha and colleagues used Medicare and census records to calculate surgery rates for black and whites from 1992 to 2001. All patients had health insurance, Jha says.

"We looked at nine common major surgeries that have an impact on whether people live or die or have an important impact on quality of life," Jha says. "We looked at things like bypass surgery, heart valve surgery, and also hip replacement, knee replacement, and back surgery. We looked at these things over a 10-year period."

The results: As far as getting major surgery is concerned, efforts to end the race gap have been a total failure.

"Things are not getting better," Jha says. "The gap is, if anything, getting wider. We found no evidence things are even starting to get better."

As of 2001, the racial gap got wider for five of the surgeries, did not change for three, and narrowed only for one. The single narrowing — for surgery to repair abdominal aortic aneurisms — may have been because whites were more likely to get a new, less-invasive technique instead of this dangerous surgery.

But maybe, Jha hoped, improvements in some local areas might be getting lost in the national figures. So the researchers looked at surgical rates for three common operations in 158 local areas: coronary artery bypass, carotid endarterectomy (unblocking the major neck artery), and hip replacement.

There were improvements for some procedures in some areas. But nobody, it seems, has a solution to racial disparity in surgical care.
 
The idiot speaks yet again:

You are sadly mistaken!



Really and truly. Try going to a top ten school and have racist advisors and professors. Yeah, but I did well anyway but I tell you many people get caught up. I'm glad I was able to get over it.
 
Really and truly. Try going to a top ten school and have racist advisors and professors. Yeah, but I did well anyway but I tell you many people get caught up. I'm glad I was able to get over it.

Um...what you people don't understand is that Asians are a MINORITY also!!! Some of you people can't seem to get it through your thick skulls that Asian Americans receive as much racism as other minorities here!!!
 
Who's fault is it that URMs receive crappy healthcare? Look no further than the URM applicants themselves. Not only are there not enough of them applying, but many of the ones that ARE applying have highly underqualified. People on this thread have told anti-AA people to stop whining about AA. Hm...I wonder how AA got implemented in the first place? By URMs whining *GASP*!!!! URMs should only blame themselves for their current state of healthcare. If they weren't b!tching for handouts and working hard to improve themselves like Asians are, they'd get somewhere.

Stop making generalizations. I'm not looking for a hand out-nor are any of the people I know. And to answer your question, if you are going to be one of those sterotyping physicians, which i looks like you are heading in that direction, it will be YOUR fault. I'm not even going to get into the whole AA complaining thing/it doesn't apply to me. But I will complain if people like yourself are doing more harm than good to minority patients. *SIGH* ignorance is bliss...
 
The idiot speaks yet again:

You are sadly mistaken!

I'll give you a hypothetical situation, numbnuts. Would you rather be what you are now: Black, smart, and rich, or: Asian, smart, and rich (in the USA)? Most people know the answer already.
 
Um...what you people don't understand is that Asians are a MINORITY also!!! Some of you people can't seem to get it through your thick skulls that Asian Americans receive as much racism as other minorities here!!!

I didn't say asians where not minorities. I know they are. If you go back and read my posts i mentioned "african americans and other URMs". But I'm not reading statistics about asian patients. And it seems to me that there are a lot more asian physicians to help combat disparities against them. Asian and African American experiences in this country are not analogous. I'm sure you have had racist encounters, but your experiences are not mine. I am stepping up to the plate to do what I need to do to be a productive citizen in this country. There are many people in my race who have not and cannnot until someone steps out and shows them it can be done. I have taught many impoverished african american males and they doctor have physician role models to look up to,they see themselves on tv, so that;s what they think they are to be. So I have to educate them and let them know what they are capable of. The dynamic between african american and asian cultures are different and I am glad that your culture has pushed you to suceed. But don't assume the situations are comparable. Yes, AA's need to step up to the plate, and I for one will be a part of the mission to help them do that, but it doesn't help to compare situations.
 
I'll give you a hypothetical situation, numbnuts. Would you rather be what you are now: Black, smart, and rich, or: Asian, smart, and rich (in the USA)? Most people know the answer already.

Please don't call me out of my name. Can you hold an intelligent converstion without the insults?
 
I'll give you a hypothetical situation, numbnuts. Would you rather be what you are now: Black, smart, and rich, or: Asian, smart, and rich (in the USA)? Most people know the answer already.
HAHAHA that question is hilarious. Im proud to be black so I would stay black. Im assuming most would say asian though, because black people have to put up with people like you, who think asians are genetically smarter

Have fun being cocky about your S when you see Indian, European, and Chinese American medical students kicking your ass throughout med school. You know what most people I know think when they see a black student in the research lab, top-20 college, or medical school? AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. People don't say it in order to not hurt anyone's feelings. The only reason to prevent this negative image is to prevent AA, which doesn't happen. Until then, all URMs will be looked down upon. Good job, affirmative action! It gives people one more reason to hate blacks and hispanics
replying to an URM
or maybe

That is some funny stuff. I loved that Chapelle episode lol. Look, no one here is saying that Asians are superior to blacks. All we're saying is that there are inherent genetic differences amongst the races (physical, mental, etc.).
 
Here are some stats from a study

Compared with white men:

—Reperfusion therapy was given 3 percent less often to white women, 9 percent less often to black men, and 11 percent less often to black women.

—Heart angiography — using dye injections to get critical information about blood flow to the heart — was used 9 percent less often in white women, 18 percent less often in black men, and 24 percent less often in black women.

—Black women had an 11 percent higher risk of dying from a heart attack.

These differences did not narrow over the study's eight-year time span.

How does this support AA? It seems if anything it supports the argument for quality of care, not advancement of a socio-political agenda.

And that study is laughable, try correcting for income, SES and urban vs. rural locations. Yes, poor people receive lower quality health care than the rich, everyone knows that already!

AA does nothing to address the inequity of healthcare delivery if one was to even assume healthcare is a basic right.

I am total proponent of getting the best physicians into minority and rural communities to improve care. Martin Luther King hospital is a perfect example of what happens when greed and political agendas are put AHEAD of patients:
What the Tasejos didn't know was that King/Drew, a 233-bed public hospital in Willowbrook, just south of Watts, had a long history of harming, or even killing, those it was meant to serve.

Over the last year, reports by journalists and regulators have offered stark glimpses of failings at King/Drew: Nurses neglecting patients as they lay dying. Staff failing to give patients crucial drugs or giving them toxic ones by mistake. Guards using Taser stun guns on psychiatric patients, despite an earlier warning to stop.

Over the same period, a team of Times reporters has been systematically examining the hospital. They conducted hundreds of interviews, studied years of malpractice cases and reviewed records of the hospital and its regulators. They looked closely at individual departments and physicians. And, to put their findings in perspective, they consulted outside experts in hospitals and medical care.

The investigation reveals that King/Drew is much more dangerous than the public has been told.

Among the findings:

• Errors and neglect by King/Drew's staff have repeatedly injured or killed patients over more than a decade, a pattern that remains largely unscrutinized and unchecked. Some lapses were never reported to authorities — or even to the victims or their families. And some people learned of the severity of the failings only by suing or, in several instances, from Times reporters who sought them out to learn about their care.

• Although King/Drew opened in 1972 with the promise that it would be "the very best hospital in America," it is now, by various measures, one of the very worst. It pays out more per patient for medical malpractice than any of the state's 17 other public hospitals or the six University of California medical centers.

• Entire departments are riddled with incompetence, internal strife and, in some cases, criminality. Employees have pilfered and sometimes sold the hospital's drugs; chronic absenteeism is rampant; assaults between hospital workers are not uncommon. Despite King/Drew's repeated promises to regulators, the problems have gone unfixed for years.

• The hospital's failings do not stem from a lack of money, as its supporters long have contended. King/Drew spends more per patient than any of the three other general hospitals run by Los Angeles County. Millions of dollars go to unusual workers' compensation claims and abnormally high salaries for ranking doctors.

• The hospital's governing body, the county Board of Supervisors, has been told repeatedly — often in writing — of needless deaths and injuries at King/Drew. Recently the supervisors have made some aggressive moves aimed at fixing the hospital. But for years, the board shied away from decisive action in the face of community anger and accusations of racism.

King/Drew, founded in the aftermath of the 1965 Watts riots, has stood for more than three decades as a symbol of justice and political power to many black people in South Los Angeles and beyond. In reality, if not officially, the hospital was established by and for African Americans; the majority of its staff always has been black.

"That hospital means hope to us," said Karimu McNeal, 52, an African American woman treated successfully for colon cancer at King/Drew in 2002. "When you go into the hospital and you see people that look like you and take care of you, it gives you hope for the whole race that we're achieving and doing something."

Mixed with community pride is an undercurrent of concern about King/Drew's standards. For about three decades it has been known by an unflattering nickname, "Killer King." Patients have fled ambulances to avoid it, according to paramedics and one ranking fire official. And police officers say they have an understanding among themselves that, if shot, they will not be taken there.

The Tasejos, immigrants from Guatemala, didn't know any of this the day their daughter was hurt. All they knew was that she needed help.

In the seven hours after Dunia's arrival, the hospital would commit a series of medical errors in treating her, each compounding the one before.

By the middle of that night, the couple were standing outside the pediatric intensive care unit, bewildered and increasingly frightened. Alarms were ringing and doctors were running by. The Tasejos tried to catch the eye of a physician who had reassured them earlier.

"He looked at me," Elias Tasejo recalled. "He kept walking."

Here is an account of Dunia's care, based on her medical records, a state health department investigation, a medical expert consulted by The Times and interviews with her family:

To keep her still during a precautionary CT scan, her 65-pound body was pumped with enough drugs to sedate a grown man.

Paralyzed by the medications, she had to be hooked up to a ventilator to help her breathe. Its settings were wrong; a blood test showed she was being starved of oxygen.

The settings were adjusted to give her more. But inexplicably, an emergency room doctor ordered a trainee physician to pull out Dunia's breathing tube 20 minutes later. No one checked to see whether she could breathe on her own.

For the next two hours, Dunia's nurses failed to monitor her vital signs or breathing, records show. By the time she was transferred to the pediatric intensive care unit, she was flailing from lack of oxygen and calling, "Mama."

The medical resident who admitted her to the ICU was unable to operate a machine to check her oxygen levels, and didn't seek help for at least 15 minutes.

By then, Dunia's heart and lungs had stopped working. Doctors resuscitated her, but later that day she was declared brain dead.

After two days, she was removed from life support.

"This child should not have died," said Dr. Lorry Frankel, chief of pediatric intensive care at Stanford University's children's hospital, who reviewed Dunia's records for The Times. "If she had been taken to any pediatric center that had appropriate policies and procedures in place … she would still be alive today."

Frankel described Dunia's care as "appalling" and "really pathetic."

After her death, a team of doctors took the Tasejos into a room and promised to find out what had killed her.

Elias Tasejo said the associate medical director handed him a business card. He kept it in his wallet for three years, thinking he might hear back. He never did.

"Our daughter is dead," he said earlier this year, "and we have no idea why."
 
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