AA totally out of control?

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I believe this problem can be addessed through other means

One thing you learn on this medicine path is the importance of keeping your eyes on your own plate. There is no impediment to you getting into med school and becoming a physician that is not your own doing, and no road to success that is not going to be based upon your own efforts. Hostility toward AA, DO etc gets you nowhere. Focus on your own plate. Good luck.
 
Wow. Two hot-button issues in one post. Affirmative action and DO vs MD. If you had used the words "top tier" you would have had the trifecta.

Oh, good idea! From now on, everyone should only discuss how AA is implemented in the top-tier/top 10 USNews schools...😉
 
Many of the "URM"s at my ivy league school have families who make more money than mine does, they didn't grow up in poverty, but they're still "under-represented" because of their race. If you're going to argue the "they went through so many hardships" based on what? their income? then why consider race at all? Race is only considered for "diversity" reasons.
 
Many of the "URM"s at my ivy league school have families who make more money than mine does, they didn't grow up in poverty, but they're still "under-represented" because of their race. If you're going to argue the "they went through so many hardships" based on what? their income? then why consider race at all? Race is only considered for "diversity" reasons.

I don't actually know from your post which side you are taking. However AA is meant to address historic wrongs not specific ones, so the individual's hardship or lack thereof doesn't come into play.
 
Just a friendly reminder that this discussion stemmed from a viewer's response to MDApplicants.com. :laugh:
 
Dead%20Horse.jpg

Maybe he's sleeping with his eyes open?
 
Maybe he's sleeping with his eyes open?

Like the avatar...I wish I had sharingan, that would be sweet. In any case, that stupid episode better come out fast!! 😡
 
To all you complainers, get over it. Take a look in the mirror and do what you need to do to get in. Quit blaming us and take responsibility for yourself. If you don't get in it's your own fault, not ours. We didn't take your spot. We work just as hard as anybody else and when we get in to med school it's because we deserved it. STEP YO GAME UP AND YOU WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! 👍

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hear ! Hear ! That's basically what the whole AA argument is about. Refusal to acknowledge a historical problem and refusal to acknowledge one's own inadequacies and take personal responsibility.
 
So you are basing your opinion on mdapplicants.com, which on the honesty of student putting in accurate data. Hmmm. As someone who actually worked on an admissions committee, let me give you a couple of tidbits regarding AA:

1) There are no quotas, it is against the law. The Supreme Court case is called Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, which barred quotas in college admissions. Look it up.


FINALLY, someone with a little knowledge to back up! THERE ARE NO QUOTAS. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

To the person(s) who claims to "not be a racist," yet feels that they will question URM med students' authenticity/eligibility, ask yourself this. you are judging someone based on the color of their skin or last name, no? even if they are from a well-to-do family w/opportunities, your speculation about their credibility as a qualified matriculant is based purely on how they appear to you. how then, is that different than that same person being judged throughout his or her life (even w/o realizing it), despite having every opportunity. now, why aren't you "questioning" a fellow white or asian student? How do u know that they didn't get in w/less stellar stats than the URM(s) in your class? Is it b/c that they make up the majority so it doesn't occur to u to individually single out a white or asian peer?

[/QUOTE] 3) One of the biggest factors in admissions are legacies and children of potential large gift donors.[/QUOTE]

Anyone who has filled out a secondary application should know this.


You know this thread makes me really cynical and somewhat disgusted towards potentially future classmates. "Race" is not just a box on a form to be checked. If u think checking a different box than the one u checked (all other things held the same) would have drastically changed your acceptance outcome, then u JUST DON'T GET IT. mainly, b/c thats impossible, b/c u would have to wipe out completely every experience you've ever had in your life. There is no way u can justify to yourself or anyone else that every major event relevant to your med school application would have played out as it did if u had consistently categorized yourself as a minority from birth. don't even attempt to argue this point. if u do, u clearly live in a bubble or in a cave. so, get over it...
 
AA is not fair. AA sets lower standards for URM's. Its a fact, but get over it. There is nothign we can do about it, everyone knows it is not fair. Just improve your application and go through the hell that everyone else does in applying.

I swear that I read a study regarding drop out/failure rates of URM's in medical school and those rates were astounding. I forget the exact amount, but multiple millions of federal dollars are wasted annually because of this practice. The ONLY criteria that should get anyone into medical school is their own hard work AND INTELLIGENCE. I don't give a **** if your ancestors were discriminated against because SO WERE MINE AND I'M DOING JUST FINE!
 
I swear that I read a study regarding drop out/failure rates of URM's in medical school and those rates were astounding.

According to a recent AMSA article, only 4% of matriculating med students leave school either voluntarily or involuntarily, and of that only 1.5% is due to academic reasons. Thus the numbers are going to be "astounding"ly small no matter what percentage of that is URM. We aren't talking multiple millions of dollars here no matter how you slice it.
This thread has been beaten to death...
 
An interesting Article I found. It's about 4 years old, but I think it still has valuable info.
 
The main contradiction in the arguments of pro-AAers is that some of them refuse to acknowledge there is a lower set of standards for URM's (meaning that given an ORM and a URM with similar qualifications, the URM will be picked most of the time) AND they still maintain that affirmative action is necessary. That's like saying, "affirmative action doesn't exist, but it's necessary." If you institute affirmative action, the likely consequence is that URM's are going to be subject to prejudices (this is one reason why AA is so hated). This is extremely unfortunate but it is not altogether surprising.

As many pro-affirmative action people have (correctly) pointed out, AA really benefits very few URM's. Yet it causes a lot of trouble and unrest. Most URM's, in my opinion, get in on their own merit. But, unfortunately, too many people use AA to excuse their own failings because they choose only to see selective examples of a minority getting into harvard with a 28 and a 3.5. The solution is to phase out AA and to work on improving childhood and secondary education so that the SAT and MCAT scores of minorities are no longer lower than those of Asians and Whites. This process could take awhile but bringing URM's up to a higher standard is better than lowering the standard to where they are right now.
 
The solution is to phase out AA and to work on improving childhood and secondary education so that the SAT and MCAT scores of minorities are no longer lower than those of Asians and Whites. This process could take awhile but bringing URM's up to a higher standard is better than lowering the standard to where they are right now.

While I agree with most of this, it's really easier to say than do. How do you eliminate racism from the world? You can't force people not to be racist.
 
While I agree with most of this, it's really easier to say than do. How do you eliminate racism from the world? You can't force people not to be racist.

I agree. My plan is not to abolish racism nor will it achieve full equality for minorities within a short period of time. But it will serve to narrow the gap b/w minorities and ORM's. Most of you guys admit that minorities receive inferior education, have access to fewer educational resources, etc. And yet I don't see many people advocating for better education for minorities. Most people seem to think that the acceptable solution is to simply put these under-educated minorities into colleges and med schools. I realize affirmative action is easier to institute than having to actually give minorities better fundamental education but its effects are not as satisfactory.

If, for example, out of 100 URM's who get into med school, 95 of them would've gotten into med school anyway, what's the point of instituting AA when all it does is allow the 95 top URM's to be judged based on how the lower 5 do? All it does is invite more racism and prejudice. You can call the people who do this racists or whatever but most of them are not. Psychology has shown us that we are wired to judge an entire group based on a few vivid examples.

The sad reality is that URM's as a group (I don't need individual anecdotes of some URM achieving a 4.0) perform worse than ORM's. If you can give URM's the educational tools to succeed in college, this will, over time, garner them more respect in an academic setting.
 
It doesn't exactly appear to be possible on this thread, let alone the world.:laugh:

No kidding. There are assertions of racial superiority from all sides on this thread, kinda shocking.
 
According to a recent AMSA article, only 4% of matriculating med students leave school either voluntarily or involuntarily, and of that only 1.5% is due to academic reasons. Thus the numbers are going to be "astounding"ly small no matter what percentage of that is URM. We aren't talking multiple millions of dollars here no matter how you slice it.
This thread has been beaten to death...

I would like to see the pass rate of minorities in 2000...

In 1988 51.1% of black medical students failed the required Part I exam given by the National Board of Medical Examiners. The white failure rate was only 12.3%. This glaring disparity, the authors found, was almost entirely attributable to preferential admissions policies[/I].[/B] Black students with strong academic credentials were as likely to pass as whites; but a high proportion of African Americans entered medical school without strong credentials, thanks to racial double standards in admissions, and thus did not perform well. Results of National Board of Medical Examiners tests measuring the competence of physicians in their field of specialization also show significant racial disparities . A RAND Corporation study of a national sample of the medical school graduating class of 1975, including 715 graduates who were classified as minorities, 80.2% of them African Americans, found that only 48% of minority physicians were able to qualify as board-certified in their specialty within seven years of graduation,as compared with 80% of whites and Asians. See Steven N. Keith,et al., Assessing the Outcome of Affirmative Action in Medical Schools: A Study of the Class of 1975 at 36, table 27. (RANDCorp. Series No. R-3481-CWF, 1987). The "minority" category in the study consisted of African Americans, Hispanics, andAmerican Indians. Asian Americans were not consideredmembers of a minority group.The likelihood that minority physicians would pass the specialty boards depended largely upon their academic recordsbefore they reached medical school.

Excerpt taken from http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ck+medical+students&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

GUESS WHO SUFFERS THE MOST? THE PATIENTS!
 
Psychology has shown us that we are wired to judge an entire group based on a few vivid examples.

Where psychology = ignorance. Intelligence tells us otherwise. (this is not directed to you btw, I'm saying in general)
 
The main contradiction in the arguments of pro-AAers is that some of them refuse to acknowledge there is a lower set of standards for URM's (meaning that given an ORM and a URM with similar qualifications, the URM will be picked most of the time) AND they still maintain that affirmative action is necessary. That's like saying, "affirmative action doesn't exist, but it's necessary."

It shows you just how intelligent pro-AA people are, eh :laugh: ?
 
It shows you just how intelligent pro-AA people are, eh :laugh: ?

No offense, while we both dislike AA, I don't really agree with any of your reasons.

The school I attended from kindagarten through 5th grade was approx. 85% black so I tend more to sympathize with the plight of African Americans and the sh*tty quality of some of these schools (the school I attended was actually shut down and restructured completely a few years back for underperformance) which you are unable to do.
 
I would like to see the pass rate of minorities in 2000...

In 1988 51.1% of black medical students failed the required Part I exam given by the National Board of Medical Examiners. The white failure rate was only 12.3%. This glaring disparity, the authors found, was almost entirely attributable to preferential admissions policies[/I].[/B] Black students with strong academic credentials were as likely to pass as whites; but a high proportion of African Americans entered medical school without strong credentials, thanks to racial double standards in admissions, and thus did not perform well. Results of National Board of Medical Examiners tests measuring the competence of physicians in their field of specialization also show significant racial disparities . A RAND Corporation study of a national sample of the medical school graduating class of 1975, including 715 graduates who were classified as minorities, 80.2% of them African Americans, found that only 48% of minority physicians were able to qualify as board-certified in their specialty within seven years of graduation,as compared with 80% of whites and Asians. See Steven N. Keith,et al., Assessing the Outcome of Affirmative Action in Medical Schools: A Study of the Class of 1975 at 36, table 27. (RANDCorp. Series No. R-3481-CWF, 1987). The "minority" category in the study consisted of African Americans, Hispanics, andAmerican Indians. Asian Americans were not consideredmembers of a minority group.The likelihood that minority physicians would pass the specialty boards depended largely upon their academic recordsbefore they reached medical school.

Excerpt taken from http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ck+medical+students&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

GUESS WHO SUFFERS THE MOST? THE PATIENTS!

Your data in this post is 20 years old and 30 years old, respectively, and thus not even worthy of discussion. But FWIW, your prior post talked about failure out of med school, not of the boards -- not the same thing.
 
I agree. My plan is not to abolish racism nor will it achieve full equality for minorities within a short period of time. But it will serve to narrow the gap b/w minorities and ORM's. Most of you guys admit that minorities receive inferior education, have access to fewer educational resources, etc. And yet I don't see many people advocating for better education for minorities. Most people seem to think that the acceptable solution is to simply put these under-educated minorities into colleges and med schools. I realize affirmative action is easier to institute than having to actually give minorities better fundamental education but its effects are not as satisfactory.

If, for example, out of 100 URM's who get into med school, 95 of them would've gotten into med school anyway, what's the point of instituting AA when all it does is allow the 95 top URM's to be judged based on how the lower 5 do? All it does is invite more racism and prejudice. You can call the people who do this racists or whatever but most of them are not. Psychology has shown us that we are wired to judge an entire group based on a few vivid examples.

The sad reality is that URM's as a group (I don't need individual anecdotes of some URM achieving a 4.0) perform worse than ORM's. If you can give URM's the educational tools to succeed in college, this will, over time, garner them more respect in an academic setting.

👍 👍 👍 !!! The very negative reponses to AA far outweighs its minute benefits.
 
No offense, while we both dislike AA, I don't really agree with any of your reasons.

The school I attended from kindagarten through 5th grade was approx. 85% black so I tend more to sympathize with the plight of African Americans which you are unable to do.

/pwned
 
No offense, while we both dislike AA, I don't really agree with any of your reasons.

The school I attended from kindagarten through 5th grade was approx. 85% black so I tend more to sympathize with the plight of African Americans which you are unable to do.

Really? I used to live in Oakland, and I went to school in Oakland also (which is primarily black). You don't even know me, so get off your high horse.
 
I would like to see the pass rate of minorities in 2000...

In 1988 51.1% of black medical students failed the required Part I exam given by the National Board of Medical Examiners. The white failure rate was only 12.3%. This glaring disparity, the authors found, was almost entirely attributable to preferential admissions policies[/I].[/B] Black students with strong academic credentials were as likely to pass as whites; but a high proportion of African Americans entered medical school without strong credentials, thanks to racial double standards in admissions, and thus did not perform well. Results of National Board of Medical Examiners tests measuring the competence of physicians in their field of specialization also show significant racial disparities . A RAND Corporation study of a national sample of the medical school graduating class of 1975, including 715 graduates who were classified as minorities, 80.2% of them African Americans, found that only 48% of minority physicians were able to qualify as board-certified in their specialty within seven years of graduation,as compared with 80% of whites and Asians. See Steven N. Keith,et al., Assessing the Outcome of Affirmative Action in Medical Schools: A Study of the Class of 1975 at 36, table 27. (RANDCorp. Series No. R-3481-CWF, 1987). The "minority" category in the study consisted of African Americans, Hispanics, andAmerican Indians. Asian Americans were not consideredmembers of a minority group.The likelihood that minority physicians would pass the specialty boards depended largely upon their academic recordsbefore they reached medical school.

Excerpt taken from http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ck+medical+students&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

GUESS WHO SUFFERS THE MOST? THE PATIENTS!

first off, u are comparing stats from the 70s and 80s w/today? seriously?? secondly, most anti-AA pple are getting all hot and bothered about URMs potentially "taking spots". Using that argument, u need to re-evaluate the statistics such that only black medical students attending schools where they are the minority factor into the equation (ie not moorehouse, howard, or meharry) to drive your point.
 
Really? I used to live in Oakland, and I went to school in Oakland also (which is primarily black). You don't even know me, so get off your high horse.

Given your previous statement "How many of you black a**holes arguing in favor of AA ..." I don't think BigRedPremed was out of line.
 
Here is a more recent study on AA that some might appreciate: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez062101.asp

"If you're a black or, to a lesser degree, Hispanic applicant, your chances of being admitted to medical school are far greater than whites or Asians with the same college grades and Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores. At the University of Washington School of Medicine in 1997, the odds ratio of a black applicant being admitted over a white with the same grades and MCAT scores were nearly 30-to-1. At the State University of New York, Brooklyn, the odds were nearly 23-to-1 in 1996 and were 9-to-1 in 1999. At the University of Maryland in 1999, they were 21-to-1, and at the University of Georgia in 1996, they were 19-to-1. At Michigan State University College of Human Medicine they were 12-to-1 in 1997 and 14-to-1 in 1999.

But more disturbing even than the finding that medical schools seem to be admitting less-qualified students on the basis of race and ethnicity is that many of these students can't pass their licensing exams, despite greater resources directed toward helping them than other students received. At every medical school CEO studied, substantially larger numbers of black students than whites either did not take or failed their initial licensing exams, and, in most instances, failed their subsequent licensing tests as well.

These higher failure rates don't just mean personal disappointment. Since medical education requires a huge allocation of resources -- and at state schools, this usually means tax-payer funding -- medical students who do not go on to become doctors are a poor investment. More than 3,500 white and Asian students were not admitted to the schools CEO studied, despite having better grades and test scores than black and Hispanic applicants who were given preferential treatment. Since grades and, in particular, MCAT scores are very good predictors of performance on the licensing exams, we know that a higher percentage of these students would have passed the exams if they had been admitted.

So, who wins? Certainly not the whites and Asians denied the opportunity to study medicine. But neither do the blacks and Hispanics who were admitted to medical school but could not survive there. And all of the rest of us -- of all colors -- suffer, too, from a shortage of qualified doctors."
 
Here is a more recent study on AA that some might appreciate: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez062101.asp

"If you're a black or, to a lesser degree, Hispanic applicant, your chances of being admitted to medical school are far greater than whites or Asians with the same college grades and Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores. At the University of Washington School of Medicine in 1997, the odds ratio of a black applicant being admitted over a white with the same grades and MCAT scores were nearly 30-to-1. At the State University of New York, Brooklyn, the odds were nearly 23-to-1 in 1996 and were 9-to-1 in 1999. At the University of Maryland in 1999, they were 21-to-1, and at the University of Georgia in 1996, they were 19-to-1. At Michigan State University College of Human Medicine they were 12-to-1 in 1997 and 14-to-1 in 1999.

But more disturbing even than the finding that medical schools seem to be admitting less-qualified students on the basis of race and ethnicity is that many of these students can't pass their licensing exams, despite greater resources directed toward helping them than other students received. At every medical school CEO studied, substantially larger numbers of black students than whites either did not take or failed their initial licensing exams, and, in most instances, failed their subsequent licensing tests as well.

These higher failure rates don't just mean personal disappointment. Since medical education requires a huge allocation of resources -- and at state schools, this usually means tax-payer funding -- medical students who do not go on to become doctors are a poor investment. More than 3,500 white and Asian students were not admitted to the schools CEO studied, despite having better grades and test scores than black and Hispanic applicants who were given preferential treatment. Since grades and, in particular, MCAT scores are very good predictors of performance on the licensing exams, we know that a higher percentage of these students would have passed the exams if they had been admitted.

So, who wins? Certainly not the whites and Asians denied the opportunity to study medicine. But neither do the blacks and Hispanics who were admitted to medical school but could not survive there. And all of the rest of us -- of all colors -- suffer, too, from a shortage of qualified doctors."

In order for these statistics to be well used, they'd have to only include the URM's that were accepted in as a result of their race. Do they flag your app or something when they play the race card?
 
I'd like to comment on the tone in this thread (and many URM threads). I'm most surprised by the negative and accusatory tone used by many on the pro-AA side. You may have a slight lead toward the moral high ground, but righteous indignation, blind assumptions, and flippant remarks add nothing to the debate. Being agianst AA does not make someone else a racist. Being in favor of AA does not mean you are more open or enlightened. You may be right that some oppose AA out of racism, but I think most oppose it on "fairness" or practical grounds. Just as the inflammatory comments by some of the anti-AA folks makes you see them as "racist", the inflammatory tone of many on the pro-AA side make them appear to have a sense of entitlement, rather than a desire to help patients in underserved communities.

It seems that many people on this board assume that those against AA are racists or worried that their spot will be stolen. I think these posts lower the conversation as much as the (few) blatently racists posts do. Several intelligent posts have been overlooked or only had seemingly racists parts recieve any responses (see drhannibal's post on page 1).

There are valid arguments on BOTH sides. However, I seem to see more personal attacks on the pro-AA side, maybe because people react emotionally to perceived racism. But, if you stop assuming the other side is racist and look at the merit of their argument and offer valid counter-arguments, these threads would be more useful. Apparently ether^O^ has been really racist in other threads, but I've found several of his posts in this one to be semi-insightful. He doesn't have the most diplomatic tone, but he does often raise some points that I think should be countered with valid argumentation, and not with name calling. BigRedMed, Baylee, and LADoc00, and drhannibal have all made some well-reasoned posts that have not received much comment or counter-argument.
 
I don't have a solid position on AA. I hear good arguments from both sides and am open to changing my views as new information becomes available. On principle, I do not like AA if it is only about skin color. I'm not worried about anyone taking my spot and my upbringing makes being racist difficult. But on principle, using skin color or ancestry to decide a person's worth in any aspect does not sit right with me. On the practicle side, though, if there are minority communities that recieve inadequate health care, and a provable way to alleviate this is through allowing less academically competitive URMs into med school, then the practicle side wins. In fact, this could also win on principle, since the benefit to patients may be greater by having more URM doctors.

So, the important question becomes: does the program fit it's goal of improving availability/quality of healthcare to underserved and minority communities? If so, then let's keep it. If not, then other solutions are needed. I don't read every URM thread, but this one so far has more compelling arguments being made that the purported goal is not being met effeciently by allowing less academically competitive URM's in and that some other policies might do a better job. I would like to see proof that it is working, because I hate to think that we may have been wasting resources all these years on an issue as important as alleviating health care concerns for underserved minority patients.
 
The solution is to phase out AA and to work on improving childhood and secondary education so that the SAT and MCAT scores of minorities are no longer lower than those of Asians and Whites. This process could take awhile but bringing URM's up to a higher standard is better than lowering the standard to where they are right now.

I am pro AA and I completely agree with the statement above!
 
👍 👍 👍 !!! The very negative reponses to AA far outweighs its minute benefits.

NO NO NO! I dont know how many times Im gonna have to repeat this. AA is NOT IN ANYWAY TO RIGHT HISTORICAL WRONGS!!!!!!! Look it up on the AMSA website. WHy do people continue to say this? It is because there are healthcare disparities between the majority and the minorities, and plenty of studies have been done to prove this. If you don't believe me, i can personally send the specific studies to anyone on this board who wants them. Race is considered in admissions to help rid these disparities in healthcare, because race plays a factor in how one is treated when visiting a doctor. I will never explain this again because no matter how many times I post it people will continue to argue that "we arent responsible for slavery" and so on and so on when this has nothing to do with why race is considered in med school admissions. And its funny how people have such strong opinions to race being considered in med school admissions yet didnt even take the time out to research the reason why.🙄
 
NO NO NO! I dont know how many times Im gonna have to repeat this. AA is NOT IN ANYWAY TO RIGHT HISTORICAL WRONGS!!!!!!! Look it up on the AMSA website. WHy do people continue to say this? It is because there are healthcare disparities between the majority and the minorities, and plenty of studies have been done to prove this. If you don't believe me, i can personally send the specific studies to anyone on this board who wants them. Race is considered in admissions to help rid these disparities in healthcare, because race plays a factor in how one is treated when visiting a doctor. I will never explain this again because no matter how many times I post it people will continue to argue that "we arent responsible for slavery" and so on and so on when this has nothing to do with why race is considered in med school admissions. And its funny how people have such strong opinions to race being considered in med school admissions yet didnt even take the time out to research the reason why.🙄

If AA is used in med school admissions for this reason, how can you justify the use of AA for college admissions, job opportunities, etc. (because AA doesn't ONLY apply to medical school)?
 
I really have never heard or seen a case where AA was used for a job opporunities. Some places have quotas to stop businesses from phasing minorites out of there business. I know we all remember the class action lawsuit against american eagle a few years back because they were intentionally not hiring qualified minorites just because of the color of their skin. As for college admissions, I dont know the exact reason it is used but i would assume its to make up for the obvious difference in educational opportunities between the AVERAGE majority and the AVERAGE minority. Yeah of course there are some well off minorites, but these are exceptions and not the rule, which is why i said AVERAGE. No system is perfect. Regardless, this is all besides the point, because this is a discussion about race being considered in med school admissions. Fixing these health care disparities is far more important than one kid who needs someone else to blame for not getting in to med school
 
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 !!!!!!!!


I apologize if this has already been said but I truely couldn't have read thru this entire thread this early in the morning without vomitting into my coffee which would suck.

Ok, so the most valid argument I've ever heard about AA is that in the modern world where there is a small amount of URMs who have all the financial and educational opportuinities once associated with wealthy whites, and some white people live in trailer parks, it should be based on economic factors rather than enthicity. Well it is people. I really don't know what we are arguing about. There is this thing called disadvantaged status that you qualify for regardless of race if you really didn't have access to the same opportunities as everyone else. I applied thru this system, my father died when I was 10 leaving me to be raised by my mother who sufferes from severe paranoid type psychoisis . . .I was on my own by 16 and finished high school and put myself thru college while dealing with her drama like the call when she ended up in a homeless shelter. I think I was definitely considered at some places I wouldn't have been otherwise, like UCLA with a 3.4 and a 32. And I do think its appropriate to have the two different statuses, URM and disadvantaged. Just being a URM in this country has unique challenges even if you are from a wealthy family (trust me, try to get an experience where you might be the minority and discriminated against, until you've experienced it you really can't speak to the issue). And URMs statistically choose to serve populations desperately in need of care which is an entirely other reason to recruit these people. Anyway, my final word on this is, if your stats are good and your ECs, personaly statement and interview personality are good, your coveted spot in medical school really isn't going to be stolen by a URM. Most strong applicants get offers at multiple schools, so if one spot is given to someone who is disadvantaged in some way, or might be willing to serve an underserved population, it really isn't going to stop you from going to medical school. And if your application isn't that strong, then its your responsibility to go out there and make it so, do stuff to strengthen it, get better reqs, score higher on the MCAT, take a masters program to boost your GPA. Its all about personal responsibility folks, so please stop whining about the relatively very small number of people who benefit from AA (thats why they're called URMs after all). And honestly, would you trade your life in for a truely disadvantaged one to get the admission boost . . . I don't think so.

/Rant . ..
 
I really have never heard or seen a case where AA was used for a job opporunities.

Research AA and you'll know it is applied to both educational and career opportunities.

I dont know the exact reason it is used

Good answer 🙄


Fixing these health care disparities is far more important than one kid who needs someone else to blame for not getting in to med school

Who said I was blaming someone for not getting into medical school? I think you should read GoodDoctor's post about pro-AA people personally attacking anti-AA people.
 
Wow man you really are ridiculous, now your trying to turn this into an argument of why AA is used for other things when that was never whats this thread was about, I suppose because your fragile argument doesn't really hold up when we talk about the real reason race is considered in med school admissions, instead of your made up reasons.:laugh: Even the anti-AA people dont agree with you. Like I said, go study so maybe just maybe you too can get into med school one day😉
 
An interesting Article I found. It's about 4 years old, but I think it still has valuable info.

Great article...... It addressed the whole "'they' took my spot" argument quite well. I also found it interesting because it made some of the same points that my friend and I were making last week after reading the initial posts from this thread......... such as all the other things that are considered, along with race, in admissions (and yet are never talked about) - like geographic location, alumni status, and any assortment of "unique attributes", such as being an athlete. Why aren't there any anti-"preference given to athletes" threads...... Hmmm, could it be because racism still exists in our nation? Nah, can't be.

All I know is, if I don't get in to medical school, I'm going after the first athlete I see........ 🙂

Thanks for the post!!
 
Wow man you really are ridiculous, now your trying to turn this into an argument of why AA is used for other things when that was never whats this thread was about, I suppose because your fragile argument doesn't really hold up when we talk about the real reason race is considered in med school admissions, instead of your made up reasons.:laugh: Even the anti-AA people dont agree with you. Like I said, go study so maybe just maybe you too can get into med school one day😉

Since you haven't bothered to read any of the anti-AA posts on this thread, there's no point in talking to you any longer (since all of our arguments were clearly made in our previous posts).
 
Since you haven't bothered to read any of the anti-AA posts on this thread, there's no point in talking to you any longer (since all of our arguments were clearly made in our previous posts).

wow...I can't believe you are still posting...hope you are enjoying yourself. I'm pretty sure you dont have the balls to discuss such a topic face to face with anyone.

good night ether
 
Ok, so quit whining about AA and making multiple threads about it, if all your views have been expressed already.
 
This thread is worthless. Everyone -- and I do mean everyone -- knows that black people can only become rap stars
party_4.gif
and professional athletes
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. Pffffttt... doctors... why next you'll be telling me they can become billionaire talk show hosts and secretaries of state. 🙄


You're all anti-dentites anyway.
 
Off topic, but awesome smileys Severus 😎
 
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