About the Atlantic Bridge Program

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Well, i just discovered this today.

I did a search and read some threads here but i am very interested in hearing what people from the US or Canada have felt about it. I am going to apply for Trinity and see what happens. I wont be writing the MCATS until aug 2006 which dosent allow me to goto a US med school (i am a Canadian Citizen living in the states almost finished permanant resident visa) until Aug 2007 year.

All this being said, the thought of Ireland is awesome to me. Not only does it negate the need for the MCAT (and the massive costs associated with it) but i start a year earlier and still finish at the same time (4 yr us 5 yr trinity). I have read STELLAR reviews of irish med schools in general and am not concerned about the content like i would a carribbean school.

Sure i could potentially get into a US school, but if i can get into to an Ireland one without taking the MCAT and still come back to the US to practice why wouldnt i?

Comments, Suggestions?
 
It is a very enjoyable experience 🙂...to most people anyway. But just to get rid of any idealistic thinking, you do have your work cut out for you. When you first arrive, you'll notice straight away that there is a frustrating amount of inefficiency and paper pushing that happens here. Sometimes it's really annoying, but if you can be laid back and take things as they come, you'll get over it quickly. Also, while I do think the education here is good and produces great doctors, the curriculum and system does Not cater for the USMLE. Doesn't mean we're "behind" them, just they're taught things differently...I can't really explain because you'll have to see for yourself, but you'll really have to work for the USMLE to get a moderately ok score unless you plan your study way ahead of time. If you plan on coming back to the US, the best thing would be to get used to the US system and the US way of education/clinical practice. Now obviouly, I have tongue in cheek a bit because those of us here ignored everything I just said myself, but just to emphasize this is a decision you'll have to make carefully (obviously)

To me, it seems like your situation is perfect for the motivation to come to Irish schools. But...I think you're also being just a bit lazy in not taking the MCAT, and I think you need to take it in order to keep all your options open. There is no guarantee that you'll be accepted into the Irish schools, and competition for places seems to be increasing slightly (depends year by year). I'm not saying this to scare you in any way (there are people who were rejected from the Irish schools, who were then accepted by good US schools, so go figure!) but just to be aware that you need other possibilities lined up, and not just look for the easy way out.
 
Awesome advice.

I do still plan to take the MCAT and I will submitt apps to the DO schools i want to attend here in the States. It seems that the USMLE exams really have more to do with making sure you study appropriately than anything else.

My goal is emergency medicine. My only concern with ireland is the fear i wont match into a residency here in the states. My wife and i got really excited when we read about the ireland option and that was enough for me to fill out the app and start the process rolling.

Im glad to hear your story. Let me tell you a little more about mine to see if it all makes sense. Im a nurse here in the states as is my wife. Currently im a flight nurse which is an advanced practice role. I fly on a helicopter to traumas and the like. Ive done alot of research and so far have published 2 papers in journals with another one almost finished. I love medicine. Its not a job to me its a passion. We have a house here in AZ and for me to goto med school we wil sell it and use the equity to pay for my first year or two then i will take loans. Lucky for me i have a wife who works and could just as easily get a job in Ireland doing the same thing. Its an exciting time in the life of an older guy wanting to go back to school!

Anywho, tell me more!

leorl said:
It is a very enjoyable experience 🙂...to most people anyway. But just to get rid of any idealistic thinking, you do have your work cut out for you. When you first arrive, you'll notice straight away that there is a frustrating amount of inefficiency and paper pushing that happens here. Sometimes it's really annoying, but if you can be laid back and take things as they come, you'll get over it quickly. Also, while I do think the education here is good and produces great doctors, the curriculum and system does Not cater for the USMLE. Doesn't mean we're "behind" them, just they're taught things differently...I can't really explain because you'll have to see for yourself, but you'll really have to work for the USMLE to get a moderately ok score unless you plan your study way ahead of time. If you plan on coming back to the US, the best thing would be to get used to the US system and the US way of education/clinical practice. Now obviouly, I have tongue in cheek a bit because those of us here ignored everything I just said myself, but just to emphasize this is a decision you'll have to make carefully (obviously)

To me, it seems like your situation is perfect for the motivation to come to Irish schools. But...I think you're also being just a bit lazy in not taking the MCAT, and I think you need to take it in order to keep all your options open. There is no guarantee that you'll be accepted into the Irish schools, and competition for places seems to be increasing slightly (depends year by year). I'm not saying this to scare you in any way (there are people who were rejected from the Irish schools, who were then accepted by good US schools, so go figure!) but just to be aware that you need other possibilities lined up, and not just look for the easy way out.
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AWESOME!! Can you fly and stuff?!?!? I have to say, I think perhaps the schools will look at your application rather favorably, because of your unique experiences - they seem to like those with experiences a little off the beaten path. And they also seem to like research (there's a specific part of the application dedicated towards your research expertise...at least there used to be). It always is a concern not making the match, but I mean..people in the US have that concern as well. EM is competitive, more so than say..IM, but with hard work you could have a good chance.

Glad your wife is so supportive. Unless she is in a health care field though, it might not be so easy to get a job here (being non-EU). She'll have to get a work Visa, and because she's non-Eu, the company she works for will have to pay the government a sponsorship fee to sponsor her for the job. That means that the company will have to prove to the authorities that there's no one out of the Irish applicants as suitable for the job as she is. If she's in a health care field...they always need people, so no worries...although qualifications may be different and she may find herself having to complete some kind of course. If not, then she'll have to do a lot of searching around and talking to HR departments /interviewing to get by the red tape...so just be prepared to invest a bit of time in finding a job.

Good luck, as always if you have any questions, post away!
 
Hey again!

On the upside my wife is an RN as well. So we are set there (we have actually already had UK recruiters call us). I am excited with the prospect of going to ireland. Hopefully i will get into trinity but i also applied to UCD and the Royal College of Surgeons. Any of the three would make me happy. I would prefer a 5 year as opposed to a 6 but if it came down to it i would do either.

I have read about alot of Ireland grads comming back to the USA for residecy then work. It seems most dont have alot of difficulty ther even in some competitive residencies. Many of the match people i have talked to suggested that Ireland grads are considered over carribbean grads, which was comforting.

I did have some questions about cost of living, on campus v off campus (im married of course) etc. Any suggestions and cost estimated in US dollars? It seems overall with the extra year my total cost will be more than here in the USA however, i wont have to worry about the cost of living as my wife will cover that. All i will have to do is pay for books, tuition and spending money.

Tell me your secrets!
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
Hey again!
I did have some questions about cost of living, on campus v off campus (im married of course) etc. Any suggestions and cost estimated in US dollars? It seems overall with the extra year my total cost will be more than here in the USA however, i wont have to worry about the cost of living as my wife will cover that. All i will have to do is pay for books, tuition and spending money.

Tell me your secrets!
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Hi there! Well the cost of living in Ireland is relatively expensive. The school fees for this year at RCSI are 36,600 Euros which i think is roughly 50,000 canadian? .... apartment 1 bedroom will cost about 900 Euros and above... and the food expense is approx 120 Euros a week, heating and bills like that about 80 euros max.... tv.. well that depends what channels you want....


hope this gives you somewhat of an idea. but expenses are as big or small as you want them to be!
 
Interesting stuff

Well i have gotten the app togeather about finished writing the essay and will have the LOR's by end of month. Going to get the passport photos monday and transcripts i will have send out by end of month.

So we'll see how it goes. I am excited. I would love to start sept of 06. That would be awesome. Any suggestions on the essay? the questions of "why i would be an asset to med school" is a loaded one. We shall see how it goes.

Lastly, where have people gotten loans from? Both Canadians and Americans. I am currently in the USA and well soon be a perm. Resident and am a citizen of Canada so i have some options.
 
US people get Stafford Loans (max 18,500 per year...10,000 unsubsidized and 8000 subsidized). Atlantic Bridge will help set that up for you. If they need more money then they start looking at Private sources. Canadians go through CanHelp, I believe.

Tuition at Trinity is roughly 21,000 eu (last time I looked, is probably more by now) so say 26,000 USD but I'd overestimate and say 28,000. The good thing is that the USD is looking to stabilize with the euro and the currency exchange isn't as unfavorable as it has been recently.

Living here isn't too bad - with Trinity, there's no guarantee you'll get on-campus housing...or if you're here, then your first year you'll be stuck on a nice campus about a 40 min walk to Trinity. However, I'm not sure how they view spousal relationships with regards to giving accommodation, if the spouse is not also a Trinity student. Off campus, you shouldn't find it too hard. One-bedroom apts. with living room and kitchen in the city centre area generally seem to be around 900-1100 range eu range per month. It depends what you're looking for...if you go for the classier lookin places, then you're talking over 1200 a month. Not surprisingly, some people over here are actually paying 1200 a month for a nice pad all to themselves. So you're looking at about 1100 - 1500 USD a month. Of course, you could shop around ...there are some multi-room places that are around that price too, and if you're willing to not be directly in the city centre, possibilities in renting rooms in houses or renting houses.

If you have the money, it might also be worth investing in purchasing an apartment. More hassle and seems quite an expensive for what you get (that's Ireland for ya), but the return on it could be very lucrative...the property market here indicates that housing prices will go up (has been for years) so you would get a huge return when you sell .

I think I angled my essay towards why I wanted to attend Irish schools (Trinity specfically, but didn't say that in my essay), and how I would be an asset to them - that asset question lets you talk more in detail about your "unique" experiences.
 
Staying in Arizona would save you > $120,000 and give you a much better chance in the highly competitive EM match.
 
Hey Student.

I do agree there will be more cost with going to Ireland,in that the cost of living is slightly higher than AZ but the numbers you quote are WAY off. Maybe the Royal College fits that cost but not the others.

Midwestern U = 37K a year x 4 years = 148K (USD)
Trinity (my 1st choice) = 29K a year X 5 year = 145K (USD)
Royal College of Surgeons = 50 K a year X5 years = 250K
When the time comes I will have 40K in the bank.

My wife is a nurse and can work both here or in Ireland. So living expenses = $0.

It really isnt more expensive for me.

The residency match is another issue all togeather. I have read a number of things from different forums. Some say its not an issue, some say it is an issue. Well, since that made no sense i called a few east coast residency programs (which are the most IMG friendly). The assistant directors told me that Ireland grads are looked at very favorably. Moreover, they will be chosen over carribbean grads as the standards are much higher. At the end of the day, the determining factor will lie with 2 things:

1) USMLE scores. They said if your scores are compeitive you have an excellent chance.
2) Where you do, and how well you do clerkships (clinicals) in the States. If you want to come back to the states, do your 4th and 5th year clinical time in the States and get good letters.

That is what i have found out on my own. Does anyone else have any info that isnt hearsay?
 
Do the Irish schools let you do your 4th and 5th year clinicals in the US? Can you do them in Ireland and still go back to the US after?
I was under the impression that you did all 5 years there.
 
well i am no athority on the issue. However, i have been told that you can setup 4th & 5th year clerkships in the USA if you want. Anyone else have more solid info?
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
well i am no athority on the issue. However, i have been told that you can setup 4th & 5th year clerkships in the USA if you want. Anyone else have more solid info?
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As there seems to be a dearth of info on this subject at present, I'll share some of my experiences setting up US electives in the hopes that it might help anyone who's interested in doing the same. I'm an American final year student at Trinity and have done a few electives each of the last 2 summers in the US. In fact, I am actually writing this from the call room at Cedars-Sinai in California as I am on my second to last call night in the MICU here... it has been a great experience. The quality of bedside and didactic teaching here has been really impressive... I would recommend it to anyone.

As a future IM applicant, this has been my 3rd medicine elective in the US. I've done others at Northwestern in Chicago, and UC Irvine in California. I also was lucky enough to do a Radiology rotation at UCSF last summer... which was a great time. I've really enjoyed all my US rotations, but it can be a bit of a pain arranging them. At Trinity, the current students get 2 months between 4th and 5th year (we got 3) and then again between 5th and final year to do electives pretty much anywhere in the world. I chose to do all mine in the US in the hopes that this might help come application time.

Basically, the process for arranging electives boils down to a few simple steps. However, you need to give yourself plenty of time and be willing to sift through some red tape, but it's probably worth it. First of all, figure out which places offer electives to non-US students. The list includes all of the above, except for UCSF, which only offers electives to IMGs in radiology and anesthesiology. Other well known places include Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Mt Sinai in NYC. The Ivys (eg. the 3 Harvard hospitals, Brown, maybe Yale) are open, but you have to pay one month's tuition. I'm sure there are plenty of others. Trinity has official exchanges with Columbia (4 or 5 students), Hopkins (1), and maybe a few others. I presume the other Irish instutions have similar arrangements.

Once you figure out what places you can go, the next step is to get an application, whether by mail or online. For the more official ones, you put down your options of what you want to do, and then they contact you if they have a place. For others, you contact the individual departments and arrange directly with them. A few warnings... sometimes, you have to wait a long time (until it's pretty much too late to make other plans) until you get a confirmation. Also, you should make sure ALL your vaccinations are up to date and documented (Hep B, MMR, etc). Then, you also need your school officials to help you verify your status... which can take time.

The whole process takes a few month's time, and it's hard to know exactly what you wanna do or where you want to go, but if you're interested, it can be really worth your effort.

Good luck.
 
A problem that you may encounter setting up your clinicals, is that in certain locations, they will only accept final year students and don't understand our system whereby our 5th year is technically our final year of formal teaching and so technically, our last year - as 6th year is solely an examination year (with med/surg in between). More programs are also requiring your USMLE scores. Of course, this is just where you look...I only wanted to do electives at home the summer of 4th year, and so was unsuccessful in arranging US electives (wasn't really willing to spend a lot of money this year, but will next year). What I'll possibly have to do is arrange some electives after my finals in 6th year, which would suck but ya gotta do what you gotta do. Anyway, just a further note that setting up US clinicals takes some time and effort, and some money. But it is doable 😉. A word of caution - the poster above said that Trinity does have exchanges with Columbia and Hopkins (1) - for columbia, you have to put your name on a waiting list WELL in advance of when you want to go...some people have been on the list for a couple years. So if you'd like to, contact Erika keane at least when you start 3rd yr. and ask to be put on this list. Hopkins as well. This is something not everyone knows.
 
excellent Info all!

I guess this is be very pertinent to me. If i get into trinity for 06 (5year) program I plan to do an EM residency, moderately competitive. On the otherhand, i am currently and ER nurse with years in the US medical system which may help when it comes to making contacts.

I want to goto Ireland for the cultural experience. he through of living in europe is aweosme. In reality i could get into a US med school a year after i would start in Ireland and graduate the same year. However, i dont the think residency risks are greater than the benefits of doing your training in ireland. Who dosent want to live in europe for a few years?
 
My letters of recommendation are at Interfolio and they contain my AMCAS ID number at the top. Does ABP use Interfolio and is it bad form to have my AMCAS ID on the letters? When's the deadline for applications and is it best to apply early?
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
Midwestern U = 37K a year x 4 years = 148K (USD)
Trinity (my 1st choice) = 29K a year X 5 year = 145K (USD)
Royal College of Surgeons = 50 K a year X5 years = 250K
Click to expand...
I used Arizona as an example since your location is listed as Arizona.
Trinity tuition is $23000. You've added $6000 for housing, food, entertainment, books, travel :laugh: Try $35000

Arizona 25000 x4 = $100000
Trinity 35000 x5 = $175000
+ lost income >$50,000
(Your lost year of work + your wife's decreased salary x5 years = ?)

In addition to decreased opportunity in residency placement, you will lose tons of money. It may be worth it to you, but it's hard to believe that it really is.

DO NOT confuse doing electives at prestigious hospitals and specialties with getting a residency in those hospitals and specialties. Some Irish graduates get competitive residencies, but it's difficult. I wouldn't pay $150000 or so extra to put yourself in a worse position tn the EM match just for the 'living in Europe will be great' idea.
 
Hey

Sure there would be money lost. On the other hand here are some other concerns about staying in the USA.

Negaitives to stay in USA:

1) Might not get into med school for 2007. Now I have 2 years to wait to go and i could be almost 1/2 done my EU education with no guarentees ill get in the next year.

2) Im not getting any younger. I would hope to get into an american med school for the 2007 year. This could be difficult due to the fact i would be JUST finishing Physics II bio II and about 3/4 the way through O chem I. Not ideal. So could i then have to retake the MCAT in April and hope for the best? Yes.

3) Applying never hurts, if i get in its an option to weight seriously. If i do not then the answer is clear, continue to work towards USA DO schools (which is still my plan).

Upside to staying in USA:

1) Less overall cost.
2) farmiliar environment
3) better chance at match for EM & doing well on USMLE
4) 4 years v 5 years.
5) 1 more year of work wife makes more



Upsides to going to Ireland:

1) Living in Europe
2) Beginning new career
3) Easier schedule over 5 year period.
4) would get done same time as earliest time i could in USA
5) If i get accepted im in, wont have the same guarentee at that time in USA


Downsides to going to ireland:

1) not farmiliar with culture or hospital systems
2) lose a year of work, wife makes less
3) cost = greater
4) concerns about doing well on USMLE and Match
5) 5 v 4 years.


So thats my assessment. My decision wont happen until after i write the MCAT in august. I should have the offer or rejection from trinity by then and a conditional offer (or rejection) from the other schools which require the MCAT. From talking to a number of people who have gone to ireland (or attempted to apply) it can be quite competitive to get in. I may not even get an offer and then the issue is moot.

I know that after talking to my wife we both would welcome a nice change. Both of us would love to goto europe. Does that mean we will? I dont know. However, i do know this; If my only option is Ireland (i wont goto a carribbean med school) then ill take that over not going at all.

Here are my concerns with getting into a USA DO school.

Although i got a A in chem I & II it was sheer hell for me. O Chem terrifies me. My GPA from my nursing degree was 3.0. Even if i was to get A's in Bio and Physics and a B in O Chem my GPA would still be 3.1-3.2. This isnt horrible, but it dosent guarentee anything thats for sure. I am also concerned about the MCAT just like everyone else (especially due to the difficulty i have with chem).

Can all that be overcome? Sure. Its all a factor of work and I plan to do what it takes. Sometimes that isnt enough and that is scary at age 31. So yes, im considering Ireland. Will i do it? I dont know for sure but options are important.

Have a good one
 
Cool. Sounds like you have a realistic view of things and are going in with eyes open. Good luck.
 
Hey

I think the #1 problem i see on SDN with people considering FMG education is that they ARENT realistic. The stats are real clear. 1/3 of people who go to an internation program (in general not specific to any one place) dont match for residency. 1/3 of people DO NOT finish med school for one reason or another and 1/3 get exactly what they want. thats a 66% chance of success. However, if you dont have the backup plan to stay where you went to school as a physician your asking for a 33%. That isnt good odds. Sure lots of people say "thats not me" well if you think those who were in the 33% who didnt match or the 33% who never made it through didnt say the same thing your fooling yourself.

Deciding to goto another country to learn medicine should be your 2nd option (1st is MD/DO). Not only isnt it optimal but schools like the carribbean offer inferior training. (im sure lots wont agree but with no accreditation or oversight you have no guarentee of ANYTHING). My plan is to attend a USA DO school, but my backup plan is Ireland. I have read alot of literature on the 4 schools in Ireland and i believe all of the offer excellent education easily on par with the USA. Also you dont have to worry about not getting liscenced in the states that expect a school to have a min. 15 years in operation (FMG) before they will allow liscensure.

For all of those following this thread who are considering it, think carefully. Its not a decision to be taken lightly as you may never be able to come back to the States or Canada as a physician. If you cannot say you are prepared for that possibility, then you shouldnt even consider it.

Hope this is helpful. I want to be honest and give an honest impression of what people are in for. I also want to be honest with myself. Its easy to see the cool side of Ireland. Hell who wouldnt say living there for school would be awesome? However, this isnt a bachelors degree, this is medicine and getting back isnt easy.

Good luck to everyone!
 
What is the best way to get an application for ABP?
 
I know that Trinity does not require the mcat, however to get into 5 years there do you need to have you bachelors of science degree or any type of degree from a canadian/u.s. university?
 
hey

its on their website. Yes you need to have a degree and you must have taken all the regular pre med classes such as Chem 1 &2 , physics 1&2 bio 1&2
 
Thanks Mike, I will just be applying to RCSI and UCD this year!
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
hey

its on their website. Yes you need to have a degree and you must have taken all the regular pre med classes such as Chem 1 &2 , physics 1&2 bio 1&2
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Hmm, according to the app materials I have (I selected the option for those with a degree when I requested the app) the programs available are UCD, Trinity and RCSI--all of which are 5 year. Requirements for applicants are:

-a BA/BS by the date of matriculation (fall 06)
-have taken courses in Bio and Chem (which I interpret as one of each)
-either a physics course or college math course

So, at least as far as my application is concerned, the standard battery of pre-med prereqs is not required for application to the 5 year programs through AB.

Ock
 
Oops, RCSI is still 6 years for those with a degree. The following is straight from the application:


The Irish medical schools admit up to 130 North American students each year through their cultural diversity scheme, The Atlantic Bridge Program.

US and Canadian students who will have (i) completed a bachelor's degree and (i) taken college-level courses in biology and chemistry and either physics or mathematics by September 1, 2006 but will NOT have written the MCAT in or before April 2006 are eligible to apply for Fall 2006 entry to:

The five-year medical degree courses at: University College Dublin (www.ucd.ie) and Trinity College Dublin (www.tcd.ie)

The six-year medical degree course at The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (www.rcsi.ie) .

Classes commence in late September/early October each year. Student housing is available on each campus.

Tuition fees for the 2005/6 academic year are 24,000 Euros (36,000 Euros at The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland which, as a registered charity, receives no government funding) and are subject to annual review.
 
I have been interested in the atlantic bridge for quite some time but am pretty sure that I want to do ortho in the us. Is this possible? Any advice...
 
tcar, if you want ortho, I wouldn't advise coming here. I think it possibly *could* be done, but ortho is one of the most competitive specialties with thousands of qualified and good US applicants applying, FMGS will still "rank" below them. If you wanted ortho coming here, you'd have to a) get absolutely fantastic board scores and b) make damn sure you have some research in some ortho interest and c) do tons of ortho electives in the US. All these are variable so if you want ortho that badly in the US, stay in the US. You'd be able to rotate and "get" ortho here without too much problem. I'm interested in ortho as well...but I probably would not have a chance of getting it.

On the other hand, it's very hard to know what you want to do absolutely before med school. It might turn out that you like something more than ortho (although it's pretty damn cool). So maybe you shouldn't limit your choices. Regardless, for the very competitive specialties, for complete security you should a) go to a school in the US and b) do very well in whichever school you attend.
 
Arb said:
What is the best way to get an application for ABP?
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Why should we bother with ABP to begin with? Why shouldn't we just apply directly to the institutions?

I find it hard to believe that ABP doesn't have anything to do with admissions. Since they collect, recruit, and submit applicants, surely they also give recommendations and advice to the institutions in regards to the merit and/or strength of their applicants' backgrounds.

My communications with ABP so far have given a somewhat negative impression of the program. Yes, I recognize that international candidates are a huge money-maker for Ireland schools, but ABP made it seem even more like a business. They made a few casual judgments in conversation which were in poor taste, which further cements my decision to deal directly with the schools. I'd be happy to explain more in PM, because my criticisms aren't meant as an attack on a program that seems to work well for many people.
 
Sorry you feel that way. It's hard for us to know, as admissions processes aren't concrete anywhere. My understanding is that ABP serves as the middle man for organizing applications. You can't apply unless it's through them, all colleges will turn your application questions over to them. Judging from the way admins are run in the colleges, I highly doubt that if there was no central body for organizing our applications, the health admissions/administrations/offices would actually be capable of organizing applications themselves. If there was no ABP, I bet the health science admission depts would fall flat on their asses and be overwhelmed in 2 seconds. This isn't necessarily a criticism of them, but they have to deal with a lot of students and aren't heavily staffed. Remember, ABP only handles the American students. The college offices handle communication with the other 40-45 international students from Malaysia, africa, etc. I could be wrong and giving a harsh statement, but I really think an org. like ABP, who answer all the queries about apps process, life there, and financial aid (big one! they handle the stafford loan stuff so you really don't have to do all that much) is absolutely necessary for the colleges, otherwise they'd start drowning.

I don't really believe that they have anything to do with the admissions process. Otherwise, why would people with "lower scores" or "worse ps's" still be given an offer, and some with higher scores or higher degrees be turned away? Why would some people be accepted into one school and turned down at another instead of getting acceptances from all schools? Why would they let people in who have to take out loans and not just give college's the names of the people who have enough family money to pay all years? Etc.

Having said that, it would be nice if we could nail down a more concrete statement of their approach to our applications (and a more up-to-date list of graduate's residencies. We all personally know people in upper years who've gone on to get good residencies and stuff, it'd just be nice to have something on paper for those who don't know anyone yet).
 
It's my understanding that you can't apply directly to the institutions - unless you want to go to Galway. The ABP is run by Irish people in California specifically to recruit and handle north American applications.

They are very casual, it's easy to be when you're not the ones making a decision. They literally just photo copy and submit your applications. After dealing with adcom's in other countries, I was very happy with the ABP's approach. I actually felt like they knew who I was (they did) and that they were cheering for me to get into a school. They seem to take a personal interest in the people that apply.

If they made some negative casual statements to you about your app, they're probably doing it because they've seen a million of them. Don't take it as an insult, think of them as a friend and anything they say is "tough love". My advice is to use them as a resource if possible.

eastofnorth said:
Why should we bother with ABP to begin with? Why shouldn't we just apply directly to the institutions?

I find it hard to believe that ABP doesn't have anything to do with admissions. Since they collect, recruit, and submit applicants, surely they also give recommendations and advice to the institutions in regards to the merit and/or strength of their applicants' backgrounds.

My communications with ABP so far have given a somewhat negative impression of the program. Yes, I recognize that international candidates are a huge money-maker for Ireland schools, but ABP made it seem even more like a business. They made a few casual judgments in conversation which were in poor taste, which further cements my decision to deal directly with the schools. I'd be happy to explain more in PM, because my criticisms aren't meant as an attack on a program that seems to work well for many people.
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Sage880 said:
If they made some negative casual statements to you about your app, they're probably doing it because they've seen a million of them. Don't take it as an insult, think of them as a friend and anything they say is "tough love". My advice is to use them as a resource if possible.
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Oh, I'm sorry I was misleading. The conversation that portrayed the program in a poor light was not in regards to my application at all. On the contrary, the program coordinators seemed extremely positive about both the application process and my background. I'm sure the individuals I spoke with were simply unaware how disrespectful and unbusinesslike their side-comments were.

As Leorl notes, they do play an important role in the recruitment and organization for both universities and students. Having attended both a large state university and a small liberal arts college, I understand how overwhelming academic requirements and paperwork can be -- especially when it concerns money. Any structure that Atlantic Bridge can add to the experience of going to school abroad will be much appreciated by everyone. I obviously approached them with my questions regarding admission requirements on the wrong day. =)

I should also note, to continue the discussion on methods of applications, that I've received application information for both Trinity and UCC directly from the schools, for non-EU applicants. I believe RCSI and UCD rely more strongly on Atlantic Bridge. Both instruct North American applicants to apply through the Atlantic Bridge website (You may need to scroll: UCD and RCSI).

It is possible that UCC and Trinity will then forward my information to Atlantic Bridge, but I definitely have a direct application for UCC and will receive one for Trinity in a couple weeks. Hope this helps. =)
 
Just had a question for those who have already applied and been accepted through the ABP. I was wondering what the earliest date that the schools notify you if you've been accepted.
 
Hey Harbsy

The apps dont get sent to Ireland until December. They are not looked at until Feb 1 and typically the earliest decisions come in March per ABP.
 
thanks mike, that's good to know that you can be told of acceptance as early as march, ive read a lot of posts where people say they've been getting accepted in august
 
Hey

I have heard that as well. I cannot say that an acceptance might not come as late as august, but Mr Keenan told me on the phone that the school typically starts offers in March. You might imagine they have thousands of applicants and only 130 slots (at least based on the website). So it could take more time but who knows?

If i was accepted and decided to go it would have to be sooner than august for me to get my affairs in order 😛
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
Hey

I have heard that as well. I cannot say that an acceptance might not come as late as august, but Mr Keenan told me on the phone that the school typically starts offers in March. You might imagine they have thousands of applicants and only 130 slots (at least based on the website). So it could take more time but who knows?

If i was accepted and decided to go it would have to be sooner than august for me to get my affairs in order 😛
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Have your deposit in hand though, because typically you get about a week to decide if you are going to accept the offer and send it in! Caused a bit of a panic on my end, I can tell you, since I was still waiting for letters from Canadian schools when I going accepted into UCC.
 
Yeah, a lot of people will actually just pay the deposit, even if unsure where they're going to end up yet (i.e. home or Ireland). For me, i was waiting for Univ. of Melbourne which was really tricky because of their backwards seasons/school seasons. Wasn't that frustrating!
 
Harbsy said:
thanks mike, that's good to know that you can be told of acceptance as early as march, ive read a lot of posts where people say they've been getting accepted in august
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I had a friend who applied late, meaning he submitted his application in early April. He interviewed in early May, was waitlisted that month, and then accepted late August. I think that if you submit your app by the deadline in November, you should be in the first round of people hearing back (assuming you are interviewed) in late February or early March. The August deal is primarily for the late applicants and waitlisters.

Good luck!
 
for the interview, is it just rcsi that interviews? and do they interview on the phone or do you have to travel somewhere to do it?
 
RCSI does not do phone interviews. Every candidate has to do face to face interview with them. good thing is that they come to San Francisco for west coast students from US and Canada and in NYC or Boston for east coast people. So you don't have to travel to Ireland and arrange everything. Usually the interviews are held in Feb. but this year i heard they also in June.
 
Sage880 said:
It's my understanding that you can't apply directly to the institutions - unless you want to go to Galway. The ABP is run by Irish people in California specifically to recruit and handle north American applications.

They are very casual, it's easy to be when you're not the ones making a decision. They literally just photo copy and submit your applications. After dealing with adcom's in other countries, I was very happy with the ABP's approach. I actually felt like they knew who I was (they did) and that they were cheering for me to get into a school. They seem to take a personal interest in the people that apply.

If they made some negative casual statements to you about your app, they're probably doing it because they've seen a million of them. Don't take it as an insult, think of them as a friend and anything they say is "tough love". My advice is to use them as a resource if possible.
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My experience with the Atlantic Bridge people was similar to yours. I could not have done without them and I felt as though they were/are my friends. I only had to send them one application form and one transcript (plus my letters of recommednation) to apply to multiple schools. It was very easy. They knew me by my first name and even got to know my voice so well that when I called them they would say "Hello Amy" before I even told them who I was. Also, they got me through the financial aid nightmare and my checks are already in Dublin waiting for me. And you CAN apply to UC Galway through AB. I got an offer but chose to go to Dublin instead.
 
Just a question for those who are applying or have applied through ABP, what did you tell the people writing the letters of reference about who to address the letter to. Im applying to 3 schools, so they can't possibly address the letter to the all schools?
 
I don't think this matters at all. I just told my referees to whom the letter was going and let them address it (since you don't see the letters until after if at all anyway). I think my letters were addressed "to whom it may concern" or even "to Atlantic Bridge Program". Worked for me.
 
I agree

I had all my letters addressed generally.

I have talked with a number of people who have gotten into med school in Ireland through the ABP and I do get the impression it is very competitive. There are about 130 slots TOTAL for 5 and 6 year programs and apparently as many as 2000 people applying for the slots. Thats as bad as most american MD schools.

The only consideration is if you should do the 6 year program or not. I see 2 major problems with that plan.

1) Cost, plain and simple. Add another year of 50K (including living expenses make it 70K for The Royal College). Also a year of taking classes you may already have if you didnt get accepted to the 5 year

2) Time. Most people probably have a good portion of the pre reqs for american/canadian med school when they apply. Typically, it seems many ppl apply to UK Irish systems with at least Inorganic chem I & II and Biology I & II along with a former degree. Since O Chem and Physics are not often a requirement of UK or Irish schools some dont take these classes. If you choose the 6 year route you will be retaking classes with a higher cost overall. If you were to cimply stay in the US/Can. and finish your pre reqs for a year not only would the 5 year Irish option still be there the next year, but so would the DO/MD route at home if you so choose.

Has anyone with a degree and some of the pre reqs chosen acceptance to the 6 year?
 
OK

So I talked with Mr Keenan about Galway. Here is why they do not advertise it and why you have to ask them specifically to apply to Galway:

1) Galway only accepts 1-2 North American Students per year.

2) There has been numerous years where they havent taken Any.

Basically, its a long shot if your trying to get into Galway.
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
I agree

There are about 130 slots TOTAL for 5 and 6 year programs and apparently as many as 2000 people applying for the slots. Thats as bad as most american MD schools.
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That is not very encouraging
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
OK

So I talked with Mr Keenan about Galway. Here is why they do not advertise it and why you have to ask them specifically to apply to Galway:

1) Galway only accepts 1-2 North American Students per year.

2) There has been numerous years where they havent taken Any.

Basically, its a long shot if your trying to get into Galway.
Click to expand...

Why only just 1-2 ? Is it a really small school?
 
Hey


Sorry if the stats are not encouraging. However, being older im very interested in reality, as i am sure many are. It is good to know what you are up against else your hopes might be dashed by unreasonable expectations.

I called Galway today to confirm what Mr. Keenan said and to find out just how many NA people apply. They confirmed it and said it had everything to do with a limited number of slots, and their apparent lack of extra money as a school.

As we all know, the reason Irish schools want us has everything to do with money. The system is cheap as dirt for the Irish ( if you can manage to get in). The goverment dosent seem to have any interest in increasing funding to the schools. As costs increase, so too will the slots for the likes of us. In fact the chances of the goverment there increasing funding appears to be NIL. They see us coming over and paying to get in thereby solving the problem. Works for me! For some reason Galway dosent seem to have this issue? Private funding maybe, im not sure.




eastofnorth said:
Why only just 1-2 ? Is it a really small school?
Click to expand...
 
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