Addressing PE

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call1800doctorb said:
And a lawyer
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It’s beyond time for both. Never have I seen such disregard for students safety. At least most of our university try and addresses concerns and have protocols in place for our safety. This has to be criminal in some way. It’s time to call in any favors anyone has and file a class action. It’s the only way. We have wasted a month waiting on COSGP/ SOMA and we have gotten absolutely nowhere. It’s time to fight back.
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I can not believe the NBOME is choosing to die on this hill. Even if they make their testing centers as safe as possible, what about the airline travel, the hotels students have to stay in, etc. This is so unbelievably out of tune with the rest of the medical community.
 
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TXKnight said:
Meaning a failure in any of these will filter out your app?
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Sure if programs choose to run that filter. It's not automatic. Programs have to set which filters they choose to run. You can mix and match. It's very customizable.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Sure if programs choose to run that filter. It's not automatic. Programs have to set which filters they choose to run. You can mix and match. It's very customizable.
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thanks for the heads up. Is there anything we can do to spread awareness among PDs regarding the Comlex PE? For example, I doubt any of them know that our fail rate is 2x higher than CS, we get one minute less for both the note/exam and have to somehow find a way to incorporate massage/some kind of OMM technique in 1/3 of our visits.

For those who failed -- do you recommend addressing it in the PS?
 
qwertythrowaway said:
thanks for the heads up. Is there anything we can do to spread awareness among PDs regarding the Comlex PE? For example, I doubt any of them know that our fail rate is 2x higher than CS, we get one minute less for both the note/exam and have to somehow find a way to incorporate massage/some kind of OMM technique in 1/3 of our visits.

For those who failed -- do you recommend addressing it in the PS?
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I can't speak for evereyone in program leadership, but I'm aware of the failure rate for all the board exams. I still think that for an exam with a 92% pass rate, its a tough sell to many PDs who can afford to use a filter because they are competitive enough to not use that filter. Ultimately, it gives them one more reason to narrow down their choices.

Anyone who follows me on twitter will know I bash on the CS/PE exam, I think they are absurd, and way too expensive for something that almost certainly DOES NOT provide an objective measure of someone's clinical ability. I've openly tweeted the NBOME about canceling this dumb test. I don't believe we should be using it to stratify candidates. However, as long as any test exists, PDs in competitive specialties are going to weed out failures, for the mere reason that they can afford to do so.
 
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unknownDO said:
They would probably make you sign a form preventing lawsuit as well.
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TXKnight said:
I have quickly read over the FSMB licensure requirements and could not found the so-called 7 states that require the COMLEX sequence (including PE) for DOs. out of the seven i was able to find MI, FL and PA. So...can anyone help with the rest? what are all the states that require DOs complete COMLEX series and exclusively the COMLEX series?
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Oklahoma is one, but the language is mixed. One clause says it needs to be a test of your "osteopathic skills" or something like that and another contradicts it and directly states that tests delivered by the NBOME OR NBME is acceptable.
 
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A side note some of my clinical sites require you to self quarantine after travel and even the ones that don't I feel extremely disrespectful telling my preceptor I am leaving to go to Chicago (half way around the country for me) and then am coming back into your practice exposing you and your patients.
 
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TXKnight said:
I have quickly read over the FSMB licensure requirements and could not found the so-called 7 states that require the COMLEX sequence (including PE) for DOs. out of the seven i was able to find MI, FL and PA. So...can anyone help with the rest? what are all the states that require DOs complete COMLEX series and exclusively the COMLEX series?
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Per @jkdoctor:
States that do not accept USMLE for DOs
California
Florida
Michigan
Oklahoma* (asterisk due to what AnatomyGrey said above)
Pennsylavania
Tennessee
West Virginia
 
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unknownDO said:
They would probably make you sign a form preventing lawsuit as well.
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Eh. I'm not sure it would stand up under legal scrutiny even if they did. I don't think they will, hence them repeatedly waiving concerns away with the whole, "if you don't feel safe then don't take it!"
 
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Hey all! a couple of hours ago I started a petition calling on Dr Gimpel to resign. I got criticized a bit on reddit for being too “unprofessional” in the description of the petition but in all honesty everything I said is the truth and I genuinely wholeheartedly believe that Dr Gimpel has to go because of how poorly he has handled this Covid 19 situation.... so please consider signing and spreading the word

www.change.org

Sign the Petition

Calling on Dr Gimpel to resign for failure to lead NBOME during COVID 19
www.change.org www.change.org
 
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BatmanDO9 said:
Hey all! a couple of hours ago I started a petition calling on Dr Gimpel to resign. I got criticized a bit on reddit for being too “unprofessional” in the description of the petition but in all honesty everything I said is the truth and I genuinely wholeheartedly believe that Dr Gimpel has to go because of how poorly he has handled this Covid 19 situation.... so please consider signing and spreading the word

www.change.org

Sign the Petition

Calling on Dr Gimpel to resign for failure to lead NBOME during COVID 19
www.change.org www.change.org
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dude. who in their right mind would attach their legal name to this.
 
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We just need to keep laying the heat on the NBOME and not letting up! Someone who deactivates their Twitter (as Gimpel did) is someone who is hoping to ride it out until all this blows over.... let’s make sure it doesn’t blow over. The “update” they posted yesterday shows that everyone being so angry about this is working and they are trying to appease us.... we need to make sure they know that canceling the COMLEX PE and blinding residency’s to the scores is the only thing that will get us to back off!
 
The best way for us to force the NBOME to cancel the COMLEX PE is if a bunch of us email Mayor Lori Lightfood (of Chicago) as well as Illinois State Representatives that cover the Chicago area. We need to let them know that what the NBOME is doing goes directly against the advice of the CDC and WHO (on travel restrictions, social distancing, etc) and a direct consequence of that could possibly brining hundreds to thousands of COVID 19 cases into Chicago.
 
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BatmanDO9 said:
The best way for us to force the NBOME to cancel the COMLEX PE is if a bunch of us email Mayor Lori Lightfood (of Chicago) as well as Illinois State Representatives that cover the Chicago area. We need to let them know that what the NBOME is doing goes directly against the advice of the CDC and WHO (on travel restrictions, social distancing, etc) and a direct consequence of that could possibly brining hundreds to thousands of COVID 19 cases into Chicago.
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While this is a very valid point, thousands of people are prbly flying to Chicago from all over the country everyday, unless the city bans travel or requires a mandatory 14 day quarantine for all travelers the mayor can have very little say in this unfortunately, it’s all on the nbome and the individual schools and what they decide to do.
 
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FutureDoctor5000 said:
While this is a very valid point, thousands of people are prbly flying to Chicago from all over the country everyday, unless the city bans travel or requires a mandatory 14 day quarantine for all travelers the mayor can have very little say in this unfortunately, it’s all on the nbome and the individual schools and what they decide to do.
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I disagree. A mayor can influence this. The NBOME is trying to be sneaky and doing all these "measures" to try and claim they are making it as "safe" as possible at the testing center, but the testing center was never really the main issue (part of it yes). It's the flying, the Uber, the hotel stay, etc, that make it so entirely non-sensical to continue to ram this test through.

There already are states out there that are mandating 2 week quarantines for ANYONE who comes to the state from another state. If the numbers keep going as they are, and are predicted to through the fall, then these measures will only increase in number.

Imagine if a SINGLE student goes and takes PE, interacts with all those people, and then goes home and tests positive. Everyone they interacted with gets put on two week quarantine. That has already happened here with some residents that were at an orientation. This is what blows my mind, that if a single positive person goes through the testing centers it could completely shut them down for at least a few days, and yet the NBOME is so insistent they will keep delivering the test. This isn't even getting into the fact that heaven forbid someone test positive, get hospitalized, and then through contact tracing it's discovered they contracted the virus while on their PE trip. That would be a lawyers dream.
 
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Texas shut down all bars today. And are reducing restaurant capacity again. I’m sure the governors of Illinois and Pennsylvania will love people flying in from there
 
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getfat said:
I'm hopeful these officials will stress the concern over traveling to these sites.
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doubt it. It’s all about $$$$.I’m sure they already hand selected who they bring in. Just like that one “4th year” student
 
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Osworld said:
doubt it. It’s all about $$$$.I’m sure they already hand selected who they bring in. Just like that one “4th year” student
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Doesn't hurt to be an optimist :). No student in their right mind would give real feedback about this. A public health official could give more realistic feedback.

But i'm one of those people that believe Gimple and NBOME are just ignorant instead of willfully predatory. They think they knows whats best compared to everyone else. And as elected leadership its understandable that some people have that mindset.

Even in the webinars, his biggest concern is licensure. I think he's one of those people that truly believes some state boards won't license DO students w/o a complete series. Every DO student doesn't take Step exams.

Is the NBOME going to admit they are wrong when all of this is over? HELL NO. But i'm hopeful when enough experts give them feedback regarding the idea of this exam during a pandemic is not in the best interest of the students.
 
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getfat said:
Doesn't hurt to be an optimist :). No student in their right mind would give real feedback about this. A public health official could give more realistic feedback.

But i'm one of those people that believe Gimple and NBOME are just ignorant instead of willfully predatory. They think they knows whats best compared to everyone else. And as elected leadership its understandable that some people have that mindset.

Even in the webinars, his biggest concern is licensure. I think he's one of those people that truly believes some state boards won't license DO students w/o a complete series. Every DO student doesn't take Step exams.

Is the NBOME going to admit they are wrong when all of this is over? HELL NO. But i'm hopeful when enough experts give them feedback regarding the idea of this exam during a pandemic is not in the best interest of the students.
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you’re way more forgiving than me. They seem 100% predatory.
 
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FutureDoctor5000 said:
While this is a very valid point, thousands of people are prbly flying to Chicago from all over the country everyday, unless the city bans travel or requires a mandatory 14 day quarantine for all travelers the mayor can have very little say in this unfortunately, it’s all on the nbome and the individual schools and what they decide to do.
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There's also the little fact that we will be returning to hospitals with active COVID cases for rotations soon, putting us at an increased risk of spreading it.
 
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BatmanDO9 said:
Not me.... hence why the name on it is “Bat Man”
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This isn't meant to come off as harsh but everyone on reddit/here has a point. The body of your petition was unprofessional. You yourself didn't sign your own name. How can you expect others to? No petition with signatures made entirely of made-up names would gain traction, either.
 
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BatmanDO9 said:
Hey all! a couple of hours ago I started a petition calling on Dr Gimpel to resign. I got criticized a bit on reddit for being too “unprofessional” in the description of the petition but in all honesty everything I said is the truth and I genuinely wholeheartedly believe that Dr Gimpel has to go because of how poorly he has handled this Covid 19 situation.... so please consider signing and spreading the word

www.change.org

Sign the Petition

Calling on Dr Gimpel to resign for failure to lead NBOME during COVID 19
www.change.org www.change.org
Click to expand...
No offense but you may have greater chance of winning lottery than Dr. Gimpel will resign himself or will get fire because of medical students' stand alone.

Chill down and take one step at a time lol...You are trying to run before you learn how to walk...and get back fire.
 
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In the last few days I've seen a spike of students AND attendings, DO and MD alike, getting their point across and supporting our case on Twitter and other social media. Lets continue to amplify the message in addition to any other actions.

Edit: A considerable spike at that
 
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Osworld said:
FWIW, I don’t think this worked. But we haven’t explicitly heard back yet. I don’t think they really care about us or our safety. It really is a sad situation all around.
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It’s better than doing nothing. The way I see it is that at least if a lot of people raise hell about this issue and the NBOME still refuses to budge then if it causes an outbreak and some medical students gets sick (God forbid) there is no way that wouldn’t end up in the news. With so many people raising this concern and them completely disregarding the health and safety of the Med students... that would cause public outrage and the media/public would have Gimpel’s and the entire NBOME leaderships heads (figuratively speaking, obviously).
 
In the meantime, news in Philadelphia
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source: Philadelphia Officials Issue Mandatory Mask Order, Consider Delaying Green Phase As Coronavirus Cases Rise
 
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FutureDoctor5000 said:
I think the nbome is really praying hard that this vaccine that dr fauci keeps talking about really comes to fruition by the end of the year hahah.. but despite all these projections sadly no one seems to care anymore, just step out and you barely see anyone social distancing or wearing masks... it will sadly only be a ticker at the bottom of the news.. but the nbome looks like fools right now
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What’s that like a 7 mill vaccine to nbome?
 
TXKnight said:
True. And she is/was a grader for the PE!
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So? Even more of a reason to hit her up. She should be asked to provide comment on this situation. If she contradicts her previous statements about the corona virus, then she should explain why.
 
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cbc86 said:
So? Even more of a reason to hit her up. She should be asked to provide comment on this situation. If she contradicts her previous statements about the corona virus, then she should explain why.
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I just mistrust anyone in that organization. Good luck!
 
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qwertythrowaway said:


I didn't realize SOMA had the power to do this...
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It’s a student resolution. Meaning it’s just saying that the official stance of the students is a unified licensing exam. It’s going to take quite a bit of fighting to get the NBOME to actually disappear.

I’m sure the NBME and FSMB are more than willing.
 
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qwertythrowaway said:


I didn't realize SOMA had the power to do this...
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The power to pass a relatively meaningless resolution? Yeah happens all the time. Why didn’t they pass a resolution condemning the administration of PE during a pandemic?
 
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So do they really think some of us or our families aren’t high risk? this is so reckless and all for money.
 
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Just wait until the death curve swings the other way and starts to slowly trend the opposite direction. Perhaps then someone at the NBOME will think to themselves, "maybe we are actually wrong here..."

but maybe I'm just dreaming.
 
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