Addressing PE

[BatmanDO9]

NBOME posted this back in May:
"The health and safety of our staff and candidates is of the utmost importance to the NBOME. Governors in both states (PA and IL) have mandates in place that have made it impossible to deliver the June exams. Therefore, NBOME has extended our COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE hiatus through June 30 and hope to resume testing on Wednesday, July 1. We apologize for the inconvenience this creates but ask for your understanding during this time of national emergency and uncertainty. Candidates scheduled in June will be notified individually and we will work with them to assist with rescheduling their exam. Once we return to normal operations, we will add a considerable number of additional exam sessions in an effort to provide as much opportunity to test and receive results in a timely manner."

Could you imagine us resuming testing today!?!?

Lol

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[ciestar]

NBOME posted this back in May:
"The health and safety of our staff and candidates is of the utmost importance to the NBOME. Governors in both states (PA and IL) have mandates in place that have made it impossible to deliver the June exams. Therefore, NBOME has extended our COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE hiatus through June 30 and hope to resume testing on Wednesday, July 1. We apologize for the inconvenience this creates but ask for your understanding during this time of national emergency and uncertainty. Candidates scheduled in June will be notified individually and we will work with them to assist with rescheduling their exam. Once we return to normal operations, we will add a considerable number of additional exam sessions in an effort to provide as much opportunity to test and receive results in a timely manner."

Could you imagine us resuming testing today!?!?

The day the PA governor mandates masks in public places no matter what lol

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

There are students pushing for being able to apply to med school without MCAT. Can you image your school saying "well, some people couldn't take the MCAT because of COVID, so we're going to include them with those who have it"? That wouldn't happen. They'd first look at the applications of those with everything completed, and then if they needed more they would open the search. PD's do this every year with exam scores. If they need more applicants, they cast a wider net (lower the threshold). This year will be no different in that regard. It's not to say us little fishy's without a PE won't get "caught in the net", it's saying that in some competitive residencies, we might not be caught in the FIRST net, but probably in the 2nd or third. This next analogy is terrible, but you don't go to the bar and immediately look for the girl with the missing teeth and body odor, you go for the one you're most attracted to and work from there (No offense to the girls with missing teeth and BO).

**EDIT** I think you're right that most PD's will probably be more lenient, but I wouldn't rule out each PD trying to get the best candidate with the least amount of hurdles.

Lol dude if you think PDs will value your 427 Level 1 and a PE pass over someone with a 700/250+ and no PE score, you're on crack. PE is useless and EVERYONE knows it, even spineless PDs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lol dude if you think PDs will value your 427 Level 1 and a PE pass over someone with a 700/250+ and no PE score, you're on crack. PE is useless and EVERYONE knows it, even spineless PDs.

Yeah at my school the best applicants won't have a PE score lol.

 

[EMTAB]

Lol dude if you think PDs will value your 427 Level 1 and a PE pass over someone with a 700/250+ and no PE score, you're on crack. PE is useless and EVERYONE knows it, even spineless PDs.

haha nobody is making that comparison bro, you'd absolutely have to be high on crack to think that. Everyone knows PE/CS is useless. But it's not about comparing the 427 with PE to the 700/250+ person without PE, it's about comparing similar stats and the least amount of hurdles. Compare 2 applicants with 427 Level 1, but one has PE and the other doesn't. Chances are the PD's first batch will screen the one without it out. PD then realizes he doesn't have enough numbers with the first filter so they expand their filter, and other guy enters the pool. You gotta think this through, there's a BIG difference between someone who barely passes Level 1/Level 2/has a fail AND has no PE vs someone with the same stats but a pass on PE vs someone with a 700/250+ but no PE. That difference get's smaller as the scores of the applicants rise because the risk goes down. You'd have to be high on something to think that a PD isn't going to try to fill their spots with the best candidates with the least amount of risk first. Don't worry, your 700/250+ but no PE isn't going to be a problem for you lol

 

[TXKnight]

All the above are the reasons why PE/CS need to be blinded from ERAS. I highly doubt that will happen though.

 

[Mochi2020]

Sign the Petition

Omit Step 2 CS from Match 2021

www.change.org

There is a petition. The person already sent it to Dr. Barone who said he will take it into consideration. The more people who will sign it the better.

 

[cbc86]

We need to get back on track here folks - suspend PE!!! Perhaps we should start a mass NBOME emailing campaign???

 

[deleted1003403]

With the current spread of the coronavirus this must be cancelled immediately.

 

[deleted1003403]

 

[StudentDr.A]

View attachment 311657

It’s nice to know the PE and it’s 12 fake patients is some how protecting the public > EM oral boards. *rolls eyes*

 

[qwertythrowaway]

Petition to omit step 2 CS in this year residency application

https://www.change.org/p/ecfmg-omit-step-2-cs-from-match-2021-4bdbffa3-7f44-445f-bce0-907a3d095788?recruiter=1099635860&recruited_by_id=6f432080-a2d7-11ea-b1b6-ddcd5f0bda06&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=petition_dashboard Feel free to sign if anyone think step 2 CS...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Sign the Petition

Omit Step 2 CS from Match 2021

www.change.org

Consider signing your name to this petition to have CS dropped from ERAS applications this year. The NBME has demonstrated that they are responsive to student concerns. The petition to allow FMGs to get certified w/o CS had ~5,000 signatures..and no one foresaw that happening. The least we can do is add our support to this petition and encourage our classmates/friends to do the same. Unlike a petition directed towards the NBOME (sorry batman), this one is more likely to be read/lead to actual change.

 

[BatmanDO9]

Did y’all see that Lori Lightfoot (Mayor of Chicago) ordered a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming to Chicago from out of state..... I wonder what the NBOMEs response will be now? It’s kinda hard to do the PE from quarantine

 

[Neopolymath]

Did y’all see that Lori Lightfoot (Mayor of Chicago) ordered a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming to Chicago from out of state..... I wonder what the NBOMEs response will be now? It’s kinda hard to do the PE from quarantine

Just take off time from rotations with real patients to quarantine to do fake medicine on fake patients. #galaxybrain

 

[NurWollen]

Just take off time from rotations with real patients to quarantine to do fake medicine on fake patients. #galaxybrain

But also your school won't actually give you those 15 days off to take a required test so hope your preceptor is cool

 

[BatmanDO9]

Petition to omit step 2 CS in this year residency application

https://www.change.org/p/ecfmg-omit-step-2-cs-from-match-2021-4bdbffa3-7f44-445f-bce0-907a3d095788?recruiter=1099635860&recruited_by_id=6f432080-a2d7-11ea-b1b6-ddcd5f0bda06&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=petition_dashboard Feel free to sign if anyone think step 2 CS...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Sign the Petition

Omit Step 2 CS from Match 2021

www.change.org

Consider signing your name to this petition to have CS dropped from ERAS applications this year. The NBME has demonstrated that they are responsive to student concerns. The petition to allow FMGs to get certified w/o CS had ~5,000 signatures..and no one foresaw that happening. The least we can do is add our support to this petition and encourage our classmates/friends to do the same. Unlike a petition directed towards the NBOME (sorry batman), this one is more likely to be read/lead to actual change.

I wonder if we have been going about this whole COMLEX PE thing the wrong way....? Since we obviously aren’t going to be getting through to the NBOME, maybe we should be also putting pressure ERAS to blind COMLEX 2-PE and USMLE 2 CS to residency’s

 

[drplzz]

I wonder if we have been going about this whole COMLEX PE thing the wrong way....? Since we obviously aren’t going to be getting through to the NBOME, maybe we should be also putting pressure ERAS to blind COMLEX 2-PE and USMLE 2 CS to residency’s

Add PE to it. Until then, this would only further benefit our allopathic colleagues.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

Add PE to it. Until then, this would only further benefit our allopathic colleagues.

the only allopathic colleagues it really benefits are those who failed CS and now can't retake it for 12-18 months. there is no downside to signing this for DO's. the upside is potentially very high for us. if the NBME agrees to 'blind' scores on a transcript, it completely refutes the NBOME's sticking point that blinding scores violates ERAS rules.

 

[BatmanDO9]

the only allopathic colleagues it really benefits are those who failed CS and now can't retake it for 12-18 months. there is no downside to signing this for DO's. the upside is potentially very high for us. if the NBME agrees to 'blind' scores on a transcript, it completely refutes the NBOME's sticking point that blinding scores violates ERAS rules.

I signed this but if you add the COMLEX 2-PE to this then I think it will attract a lot more attention and thus people to sign it

 

[sunshinefl]

Add PE to it. Until then, this would only further benefit our allopathic colleagues.

Yeah not to sound like a selfish prick, but why would I even further disadvantage myself for residency? Zero way I’m signing that.

 

[Pokedoc]

I thought about this. If people just cancel their tests until next year then the NBOME would be in trouble. But it is probably a pipe dream, too many people would be scared of not getting licensed or something like that.

With cases increasing the September 1st start date is going to be in trouble.

Not even possible for students at my school. Administration has told us they are still making it a requirement for graduation, even though they don't have to.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not even possible for students at my school. Administration has told us they are still making it a requirement for graduation, even though they don't have to.

Which absolutely stooooopid. Any school that does this cares as much for their students as the NBOME.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

My school basically said the wording of the NBOME only says Deans can waive it as a graduation requirement if a student has a hardship that prevents them from completing it prior to graudation, and hardship would be determined by the Dean on an individual basis. So basically everyone has to take it unless you literally keep getting cancelled to the point past graduation lol.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

My school basically said the wording of the NBOME only says Deans can waive it as a graduation requirement if a student has a hardship that prevents them from completing it prior to graudation, and hardship would be determined by the Dean on an individual basis. So basically everyone has to take it unless you literally keep getting cancelled to the point past graduation lol.

Lol that isn't true at all. The COCA guy at my school approved us to all graduate without it although taking it before graduation is still "heavily encouraged."

 

[12jas]

So basically I would lose 4 weeks of rotations if I actually followed public health guidelines. Two weeks to quarantine in Chicago and then two more weeks when I return. This isn't even logistically possible for me. We need to email the NBOME and see what there response is to the the quarantine orders. I feel like this is going to help our cause greatly. However, I think the NBOME will continue to hide in silence pretending that nothing has changed. Seriously what the hell is wrong with these people. How can they be so blatant about disregarding our safety and ignoring the guidelines of virtually all major health organizations.

 

[Neopolymath]

But also your school won't actually give you those 15 days off to take a required test so hope your preceptor is cool

This is definitely one of those weird MD vs DO blindspots that doesn't get brought up. I'm over here with 1 month of vacation to use for year three and four but must use it to get any step 1 dedicated and then every year all I hear are MD students with months off for interviews and all kinds of stuff like "I haven't seen a patient since November."

 

[You shall know the Truth]

4 months not seeing a pt. Then jumping right into auditions is going to be tough

 

[sunshinefl]

4 months not seeing a pt. Then jumping right into auditions is going to be tough

Right? And I carefully crafted my schedule so things would lead perfectly into each other, with perfect timing of intense rotations, sweets spots for important auditions, etc.

......that’s all irrelevant now. I’m jumping into a sub-I cold.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Right? And I carefully crafted my schedule so things would lead perfectly into each other, with perfect timing of intense rotations, sweets spots for important auditions, etc.

......that’s all irrelevant now. I’m jumping into a sub-I cold.

I wish you the best, steep learning curve. Hopefully programs will be understanding to a degree.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Lol that isn't true at all. The COCA guy at my school approved us to all graduate without it although taking it before graduation is still "heavily encouraged."

Oh I agree but KCU Dean 100% told that to our class and any student there will be able to vouch. Not saying that he’s correct in his interpretation but they are def playing it off to our class like it only applies in special circumstances or something and are basically still saying everyone should have it down before graduation and if someone is unable to they can work with them or something.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Oh I agree but KCU Dean 100% told that to our class and any student there will be able to vouch. Not saying that he’s correct in his interpretation but they are def playing it off to our class like it only applies in special circumstances or something and are basically still saying everyone should have it down before graduation and if someone is unable to they can work with them or something.

Oh I know, my post was more mocking dean’s that say that more than anything else. It’s amazing how much these people leadership will actively damage their students.

 

[BatmanDO9]

I’m just waiting for Gimpel/NBOME to come out with there next update and say something like “the COMLEX 2-PE is a critical and important exam....” and then proceed to give instructions to those taking the exam in Chicago to arrive two weeks early to comply with the quarantine order

 

[Scrubs101]

Fun fact of the day: We have 2x the amount of daily cases now than when the nbme decided to cancel the CS for 12-18months

Edit: Almost 3x actually from when the cancelation was announced, 2x from the height of the early pandemic

 

[BatmanDO9]

There has to be an update or something coming? Have you guys looked at twitter... search COMLEX PE, NBOME, or John Gimpel, they are getting destroyed and ripped apart by tons of people.

 

[StudentDr.A]

There has to be an update or something coming? Have you guys looked at twitter... search COMLEX PE, NBOME, or John Gimpel, they are getting destroyed and ripped apart by tons of people.

It has been wonderful seeing so many physicians redirecting their COVID anger at the NBOME. They have not let up all day.

 

[Pokedoc]

Any word yet on a plan to blind the PE/CS for ERAS this year?

 

[frenchyn]

Any word yet on a plan to blind the PE/CS for ERAS this year?

I heard per my school the chance is small

 

[DrStephenStrange]

It has been wonderful seeing so many physicians redirecting their COVID anger at the NBOME. They have not let up all day.

I think it's funny that the AOA posted this article from 2019. Not suspicious at all lol

 

[Pokedoc]

I heard per my school the chance is small

Well that's just fantastic.

 

[NurWollen]

I've been following this thread for a while. I have to admit I am experiencing a certain amount of glee watching the NBOME crash and burn so badly, but I feel for you students who are being affected by this. Don't let up the pressure on them. The worsening of the pandemic (as awful as it is) has sharpened the points y'all are making. If I, as a fellow, can't leave my state on vacation without being quarantined when I get back due to hospital policy (which I wouldn't do to my program), then there's no way the NBOME is going to be able to carry on with the PE, no matter how badly they want to.

 

[MeriCheri]

I heard per my school the chance is small

That's incredibly frustrating.

I'm earnestly asking but why wouldn't NBOME just blind? What benefit is it to them that they don't

 

[Ho0v-man]

That's incredibly frustrating.

I'm earnestly asking but why wouldn't NBOME just blind? What benefit is it to them that they don't

To put pressure on us to take it.

 

[Neopolymath]

That's incredibly frustrating.

I'm earnestly asking but why wouldn't NBOME just blind? What benefit is it to them that they don't

Maybe it's a typo but if not: the NBOME has nothing to do with blinding things. They don't control ERAS. I think you are confusing several different orgs and situations.

 

[BatmanDO9]

What bothers me is how hypocritical it is... these people are all about fairness and everything being even. They make sure you never get any unfair advantage...Until it comes to this

 

[km93]

Maybe it's a typo but if not: the NBOME has nothing to do with blinding things. They don't control ERAS. I think you are confusing several different orgs and situations.

Who do we pay to request our transcript? Who releases the transcript to ERAS?

The NBOME. It is absolutely within their control to blind or only submit Level 1/2 CE scores.

 

[Neopolymath]

Who do we pay to request our transcript? Who releases the transcript to ERAS?

The NBOME. It is absolutely within their control to blind or only submit Level 1/2 CE scores.

I'm sorry but this is kind of backwards. Why would a group administering a product blind said product results instead of the body ultimately in charge of administering the application to the match?

You can say it's pedantic but I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. The wording of the post I quoted reads like that poster thinks the NBOME should blind the results... Not cancel them. That doesn't make sense logically or based on the fact that the NBOME should *cancel* the exam.

 

[frenchyn]

I'm sorry but this is kind of backwards. Why would a group administering a product blind said product results instead of the body ultimately in charge of administering the application to the match?

You can say it's pedantic but I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. The wording of the post I quoted reads like that poster thinks the NBOME should blind the results... Not cancel them. That doesn't make sense logically or based on the fact that the NBOME should *cancel* the exam.

Contacted Eras...Eras won’t blind the score. It is under NBME or NBOME power.

 

[Neopolymath]

Contacted Eras...Eras won’t blind the score. It is under NBME or NBOME power.

I'm not arguing about who will or will not actually do it. I'm saying that ultimately ERAS should do it if anyone is going to. And yes, PE should be cancelled and scores should be blinded. I could ask my grandma if that's the right thing to do and it would take her 5 seconds to make that decision.

 

[TXKnight]

I'm not arguing about who will or will not actually do it. I'm saying that ultimately ERAS should do it if anyone is going to. And yes, PE should be cancelled and scores should be blinded. I could ask my grandma if that's the right thing to do and it would take her 5 seconds to make that decision.

This is all semantics, true ERAS should do it, but they won't. So, it is to the NBOME to not release those scores as part of the ERAS app score submission electronic request, Just like NBME has been looking into it. Maybe only by request from both orgs will ERAS do somethign like that, dunno.

 

[TXKnight]

2021 HOD Resolutions & Reports

Resolutions submitted before the June 26 deadline are listed here for consideration by the House of Delegates.

osteopathic.org

This is the AOA HOD web page. Here one can download the template for the submission of student/physician resolutions. Can any student submit their own proposed resolution or does one need to be part of a student org?
I will draft my own proposals calling for 1) Suspension of PE for 12-18 months and another calling for 2) Protecting DO student match fairness by blinding PE scores.