Addressing PE

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At this point i've given up on trying to cancel or suspend the PE.

And the thought of trying to take this exam during residency sounds like a recipe for disaster. I don't think i would take any actor seriously after spending most of my day seeing real patients.

I just hope we can push for the COMs to handle PEs and allow remote proctoring. We need more dates. Also, expecting students to fly across the country was already hard enough w/o the pandemic.

Most schools are already prepared to have PE. If my branch campus has the infrastructure for remote proctoring PEs then I'm confident theres more than enough colleges capable of this.
 
getfat said:
At this point i've given up on trying to cancel or suspend the PE.
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Just my opinion but the chances of that happening have only gotten better. They’ve already shot themselves in the foot with this two month delay (guaranteeing a large portion won’t have theirs by Match). Even just one more month delay would be no different than jumping off a cliff.
 
cbc86 said:
That COM wrote the letter because the students spoke up and took a stand.
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Yes. An official letter from the entire class, authored by the class president and a few others and approved by the class, was sent directly to the entire administration directly asking for institutional support and a public statement from the dean. Come to find out our schools cares what we think a great deal.
 
Alkaidius said:
Just my opinion but the chances of that happening have only gotten better. They’ve already shot themselves in the foot with this two month delay (guaranteeing a large portion won’t have theirs by Match). Even just one more month delay would be no different than jumping off a cliff.
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The thought of taking this exam during residency still doesn't sound ideal.

NBOME is getting their money for "the most important exam"
 
Suspending the PE goes beyond the convenience (or lack thereof) of postponing/suspending the test. It became an ethical imperative the moment NBME suspended theirs. Why? Because it's on our best interest as DOs to have fair and equal opportunity during the match and ERAS opening. This is not to mention the backdrop of COVID, etc.

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Also... I did not know Gimple was the architect of PE... He freaking created the exam in 2004. That's why he has a hard on for it.

" In 2004, we created our Philadelphia National Center for Clinical Skills Testing under the guidance of Dr. John R. Gimpel, Vice President for Clinical Skills Testing. The first COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE examination was administered on September 23, 2004 to 12 student candidates."
 
shadowlightfox said:
Why? What did he do?
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He never regained credibility after what many called lies (and I agree) about his experience with abortion in med school. After that, it was one thing after another.

Sidenote: not going to turn this into a debate about abortion. Just answering the question. I would focus on Dr. Mike if you want someone with credibility getting the word out.
 
Mass Effect said:
He never regained credibility after what many called lies (and I agree) about his experience with abortion in med school. After that, it was one thing after another.

Sidenote: not going to turn this into a debate about abortion. Just answering the question. I would focus on Dr. Mike if you want someone with credibility getting the word out.
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Out of curiosity, why should I believe he's credible?
 
Giovanotto said:
Out of curiosity, why should I believe he's credible?
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People trust him. Whether they should or not is up for debate, but people trust him (much like many of the influencers these days, no matter the industry) and that's credibility. None of us have to believe he's credible, but the question was about who's best to represent your viewpoint to the larger public and Dr. Mike > ZDogg, particularly if that larger audience includes medical professionals.
 
Our State osteopathic association sent us an email. They are working with the school to directly contact the NBOME and petition to have the test either delivered in regional testing centers, or suspended until mid-2021. The association is actually made up of pretty much every DO in the entire state, and they have a lot of pull at the AOA since they've been around for so long.

Petition your schools for support, reach out to any osteopathic organization nearby, and do no stop pushing. There are a lot more people willing to support us than we have ever realized, we just had to get the courage up to ask and make noise.
 
One of our administrators just told us on a Zoom call that all DO deans and high administration, along with AACOM, are in a meeting with NBOME about what to do about the PE for this year, and that once a consensus had been reached that there would be an announcement.
 
Otitis said:
One of our administrators just told us on a Zoom call that all DO deans and high administration, along with AACOM, are in a meeting with NBOME about what to do about the PE for this year, and that once a consensus had been reached that there would be an announcement.
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Can you give any more details? Please let us know as soon as you hear something.
 
That was the only detail that he was able to give. He even ended it by saying that's all he knew at the moment. And I'm sure he was referring to an announcement from a national organization, first, not from our school.
 
Otitis said:
One of our administrators just told us on a Zoom call that all DO deans and high administration, along with AACOM, are in a meeting with NBOME about what to do about the PE for this year, and that once a consensus had been reached that there would be an announcement.
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“wE fEeL tHe ExAm Is EsSeNtIaL”


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AnatomyGrey12 said:
Our State osteopathic association sent us an email. They are working with the school to directly contact the NBOME and petition to have the test either delivered in regional testing centers, or suspended until mid-2021. The association is actually made up of pretty much every DO in the entire state, and they have a lot of pull at the AOA since they've been around for so long.

Petition your schools for support, reach out to any osteopathic organization nearby, and do no stop pushing. There are a lot more people willing to support us than we have ever realized, we just had to get the courage up to ask and make noise.
Click to expand...
Otitis said:
One of our administrators just told us on a Zoom call that all DO deans and high administration, along with AACOM, are in a meeting with NBOME about what to do about the PE for this year, and that once a consensus had been reached that there would be an announcement.
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I wish we knew more about these closed door meetings. Suspending PE is great, but we need also need blinding ERAS from all PE results in order to stay competitive for interviews...I guess we'll find out and I hope it's a sensible solution not just kicking the can down the road
 
TXKnight said:
I wish we knew more about these closed door meetings. Suspending PE is great, but we need also need blinding ERAS from all PE results in order to stay competitive for interviews...I guess we'll find out and I hope it's a sensible solution not just kicking the can down the road
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If it's suspended and 75% of DO's don't have it and most MD's don't have CS I don't think it will matter, particularly if the IMG applicant pool is a lot smaller than usual. I think that would have been an issue if it was more of like a 60/40 80/20 type split of have it/don't have it.
 
Yeah, from what I can tell that still does nothing to help with the Match unless ERAS takes it off. If we have to take it eventually, not having taken it is still a liability to PDs if they are privy to the information.
 
Scrubs101 said:
Okay great, now ERAS get rid of the ability to report PE/CS. Still kinda salty we'll have to take it eventually unlike MDs and CS but ill take it.
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I would have much preferred to rub someone's back in April to NEVER think about OMM again. Now it's gonna kill my morning mellow at the end of 4th year or god forbid when I'm an intern doing real medicine. I was really looking forward to getting that last OMM thing over with so they couldn't bother me anymore lol. (And yeah I'm not worried about a few questions on level 3)
 
Scrubs101 said:
Okay great, now ERAS get rid of the ability to report PE/CS. Still kinda salty we'll have to take it eventually unlike MDs and CS but ill take it.
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I don't think COCA can actually mandate we take PE during residency, the NBOME can because of how it's required to sit for Level 2, but COCA can't.
 
jkdoctor said:
HUGE NEWS IMO. Means the class of 2021 can get through without taking the PE. However, feel real sorry for those who failed before the PE was suspended. Also opens up the opportunity for DO students with Step 1 and Step 2 CK to tale Step 3 and get licensed without taking PE or CS.
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It says this though:
Deans are responsible for ensuring that the student’s residency training program is advised that the student must still successfully complete the COMLEX-USA examination(s);

Don't we still have to take PE? I don't even know how the Deans are gonna follow up with residency programs to make sure we take it.
 
jkdoctor said:
HUGE NEWS IMO. Means the class of 2021 can get through without taking the PE. However, feel real sorry for those who failed before the PE was suspended. Also opens up the opportunity for DO students with Step 1 and Step 2 CK to tale Step 3 and get licensed without taking PE or CS.
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I didn't get the vibe you did with regards to the bolded. They want people to take it later not cancel it for the class of 2021.
 
Remember that
Prehealth1011 said:
It says this though:
Deans are responsible for ensuring that the student’s residency training program is advised that the student must still successfully complete the COMLEX-USA examination(s);

Don't we still have to take PE? I don't even know how the Deans are gonna follow up with residency programs to make sure we take it.
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COCA doesn't have the authority to mandate that. Basically you still need PE for Level 3, but COCA can't retroactively revoke your graduation or whatever if you don't take it.

Neopolymath said:
I didn't get the vibe you did with regards to the bolded.
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I think it's considering that loophole how 43 states will give you a license by completing the USMLE series. In theory if someone matches in one of those 43 states, they can just take Step 3 (as long as they have Step 1/2CK)and get a license. You just won't be able to do fellowship or work in one of those other 7 states.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
If it's suspended and 75% of DO's don't have it and most MD's don't have CS I don't think it will matter, particularly if the IMG applicant pool is a lot smaller than usual. I think that would have been an issue if it was more of like a 60/40 80/20 type split of have it/don't have it.
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DO's will be seen as a liability for sure by PDs. Who wants a PGY1 that may fail PE in the middle of intern year?
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Remember that


COCA doesn't have the authority to mandate that. Basically you still need PE for Level 3, but COCA can't retroactively revoke your graduation or whatever if you don't take it.



I think it's considering that loophole how 43 states will give you a license by completing the USMLE series. In theory if someone matches in one of those 43 states, they can just take Step 3 (as long as they have Step 1/2CK)and get a license. You just won't be able to do fellowship or work in one of those other 7 states.
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Know where we can find a list of those states? Might rethink my app strategy lmao
 
TXKnight said:
DO's will be seen as a liability for sure by PDs. Who wants a PGY1 that may fail PE in the middle of intern year?
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Not with how many programs need DO's to fill, especially if the IMG pool is greatly diminished.

As far as I'm aware it hasn't been ever stated by the NBME that class of 2021 will never take CS. That's just speculation. And the same reasons driving the speculation also apply to the PE.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Not with how many programs need DO's to fill, especially if the IMG pool is greatly diminished.

As far as I'm aware it hasn't been ever stated by the NBME that class of 2021 will never take CS. That's just speculation. And the same reasons driving the speculation also apply to the PE.
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I really think I read it on their website, CS will not be required for their licensure, basically they dodged that bullet, and kept their $ 1300
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Not with how many programs need DO's to fill, especially if the IMG pool is greatly diminished.

As far as I'm aware it hasn't been ever stated by the NBME that class of 2021 will never take CS. That's just speculation. And the same reasons driving the speculation also apply to the PE.
Click to expand...

Is there talk of IMGs being locked out due to lack of CS or something? Hadn't heard of that
 
jkdoctor said:
Sorry but Deans have no control over state laws. State medical boards follow state laws. The Deans can "advise" all they want . Does not mean squat.
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New plan: Getting step 3 done. Skipping COMLEX PE, LEVEL 3 etc. And i can finally throw away the Saverese OMT book to trash where it belongs.

Life's good again.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
New plan: Getting step 3 done. Skipping COMLEX PE, LEVEL 3 etc. And i can finally throw away the Saverese OMT book to trash where it belongs.

Life's good again.
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If this becomes a real possibility I'll jump on it. You're right they can't force us to do squat after we have our degree
 
This doesn't feel like a victory to me. I don't trust my COM to let me graduate without the PE even if COCA says it is okay. It also doesn't address the fact that some will have PE and some won't for rank lists. I am currently scheduled in September and even the smallest risk of failing this exam seems unacceptable but on the back end I don't want to be not ranked and seen as a liability. I think this is good news and clears the way for NBOME to cancel but just does't feel like we won anything.
 
TXKnight said:
I really think I read it on their website, CS will not be required for their licensure, basically they dodged that bullet, and kept their $ 1300
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Yeah they say that the suspension won't be a reason for delay in licensure, but I don't think they have come out and said they won't ever take CS. It's all speculation about that, mainly because the NBME probably doesn't even know what they are going to do lololol
 
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