Addressing PE

  • Thread starter Thread starter AnatomyGrey12
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
It will only be the end of we stop petitioning and advocating for what we expect and what we need. Part of the problem is we don't have clear goals. I believe that we need all need a clear goal to focus on with what we expect the NBOME to do. I think what my school and the OOA have asked of the NBOME is very reasonable. Because these letters were sent to us publicly, I am going to post them (I have removed the contact information for all parties involved). I encourage all of you to read these letters, and show them to administration at your schools as something concrete that they can do to help support us, and ask them to all petition the NBOME for the same thing.
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The typical SDN response of all DO schools are equal has been proven wrong, the truth is that OSUCOM reigns supreme
 
Scrubs101 said:
The typical SDN response of all DO schools are equal has been proven wrong, the truth is that OSUCOM reigns supreme
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Damn straight. And it was the students that pulled this off. They wrote a letter to admin asking for their support. Enough with the defeatist DO student attitude. Let’s make this happen.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
It will only be the end of we stop petitioning and advocating for what we expect and what we need. Part of the problem is we don't have clear goals. I believe that we need all need a clear goal to focus on with what we expect the NBOME to do. I think what my school and the OOA have asked of the NBOME is very reasonable. Because these letters were sent to us publicly, I am going to post them (I have removed the contact information for all parties involved). I encourage all of you to read these letters, and show them to administration at your schools as something concrete that they can do to help support us, and ask them to all petition the NBOME for the same thing.
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Scrubs101 said:
The typical SDN response of all DO schools are equal has been proven wrong, the truth is that OSUCOM reigns supreme
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
I will admit, my school has earned my utmost respect with how they have handled all of this. They took the letter we sent them and responded with a response that was better than we ever even hoped for.
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Nice... OSUCOM actually has some coconuts.

My school's approach - "We really arent sure what's going to happen. But stay on track." - gee thanks.
 
Osworld said:
Updates?
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Most recent updates:
- PE exams scheduled from now until September 1 have been cancelled.
- Most recent re-scheduled dates extend to next year, March or April.
- COCA has changed the ruling that allows medical students to graduate students in 2021 without a passing PE score. This does not mean you will not have to pass it in the future.
- NBOME has yet to make a call like the NBME to suspend the exam for 12-18 months.
 
Is anyone else's class/school/anyone organizing to email the NBOME or something? Is anyone else's class page lit up with people asking to have this test suspended and a refund issued?
 
cbc86 said:
Is anyone else's class/school/anyone organizing to email the NBOME or something? Is anyone else's class page lit up with people asking to have this test suspended and a refund issued?
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Theres a handful of people at my school who are making their voice heard publically, maybe 10 or so? With 3-4 fb posts about it in total, the one that gained the most traction got about 50likes out of around 600members to the group (diff classes are in the 2021 class page as well). Some admin have reached out to help and advocate for us, but no updates yet.

Posting the specifics because idk how loud of a voice this is compared to other schools.
 
Also, it looks like there are some students on twitter that need some extra help. They actually had a 20 ish tweet conversation with the vice-president of the AOA, but it seems like there is only a handful of them. I don't know about you guys, but I am thinking about joining twitter with a bogus name to help them out.
 
bradrutter said:
Also, it looks like there are some students on twitter that need some extra help. They actually had a 20 ish tweet conversation with the vice-president of the AOA, but it seems like there is only a handful of them. I don't know about you guys, but I am thinking about joining twitter with a bogus name to help them out.
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Please do. We need to apply pressure from every possible angle.
 
Scrubs101 said:
Theres a handful of people at my school who are making their voice heard publically, maybe 10 or so? With 3-4 fb posts about it in total, the one that gained the most traction got about 50likes out of around 600members to the group (diff classes are in the 2021 class page as well). Some admin have reached out to help and advocate for us, but no updates yet.

Posting the specifics because idk how loud of a voice this is compared to other schools.
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maybe @AnatomyGrey12 could help you out? his class rallied.
 
bradrutter said:
Also, it looks like there are some students on twitter that need some extra help. They actually had a 20 ish tweet conversation with the vice-president of the AOA, but it seems like there is only a handful of them. I don't know about you guys, but I am thinking about joining twitter with a bogus name to help them out.
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I'm on twitter. Just don't use your real name. That's where the real crap talking goes down.
 
cbc86 said:
Let's replace the word "waive" with "suspend". Just helps keep the message clear.
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No it’s already suspended. Waiving it is the BEST option since that would be the equivalent of the CS for our MD 2021 colleagues. We need an even playing field not gimpel keeping his ego intact by forcing us all to do the PE


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
They have yet to answer any real questions. It's incredibly frustrating.
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It has become glaringly obvious that none of them are on the same page. The fact that some osteo faculty think the PE will be administered at other sites this cycle (despite Dr. Gimpel's statement in the webinar) suggests a lack of understanding in how the test is administered and lack of internal communication.

They are still living in the good old days of the AOA match. Those days are over. In the NRMP match, DO students make up only 14% of the applicant pool. It's a David vs Goliath match-up every year, and yet we have studs every year who beat the odds and outpunch their weight class via audition rotations and in-person IVs. We make our own luck. The pandemic has only magnified the disparities in the match. Now, our governing body is imposing an additional barrier on us (and ironically thinks they have done us a favor).
 
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Let's also talk about what happens when 7.3% of OMS-4 students fail the test over the next 6 months. Unless the pass rate magically jumps to 100%, thats another 400+ students who will have to come back and retake during residency.

(For reference: Out of ~28,000 USMD medical students in the class of 2020, only 107 of them were lacking a passing CS score before residency. https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2020-03/AAMC response to USMLE Step2CS.pdf)

The AAMC provided a unified statement on behalf of 107 students. What is COCA/NBOME going to do when we have 4x that many students in the same position this Spring?
 
dabo52 said:
Here is a link to the updated FAQ section on the NBOME website about the PE. It looks like the NBOME does not support blinding the COMLEX Level 2 PE from residency applications and it looks like they have no plan for a 2nd wave of the virus this fall.

Frequently Asked Questions — NBOME

www.nbome.org www.nbome.org
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"Withholding reporting of any licensure examination results, however, is not advisable, as it is not only a violation of ERAS guidelines but has been grounds for irregular conduct related to nondisclosure of important information reportable to state medical licensing boards and relevant to future medical licensure."

I don't see anything in ERAS guidelines supporting the above statement made by the NBOME. They do state this for reporting of USMLE scores:"The USMLE transcript contains your entire USMLE history on Step 1, Step 2CK, Step 2CS and, if taken, Step 3. It will include all attempts: passed, failed, incomplete, etc." The section for COMLEX-USA score reporting does NOT state that the COMLEX transcript must include all attempts.

Exam Score Reporting - ERAS® Fellowships Documents Office

ERAS® Fellowships Documents Office (EFDO), an online service exclusively for medical residents and fellows to support the centralized processing of fellowship application materials submitted via ERAS. Fellowship applicants request an electronic token to...
www.erasfellowshipdocuments.org
 
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RamsFan&FutureDO said:
No it’s already suspended. Waiving it is the BEST option since that would be the equivalent of the CS for our MD 2021 colleagues. We need an even playing field not gimpel keeping his ego intact by forcing us all to do the PE


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I agree with your sentiment, but they "waived the requirement for graduation" - If we say we want the exam waived, they will continue to reiterate "OH WELL WE DID WAIVE THE EXAM!!!!", which is not true. Administration of the exam must be suspended for 12-18 months, then I dare them to try to make interns across the country come take the exam.
 
cbc86 said:
Administration of the exam must be suspended for 12-18 months, then I dare them to try to make interns across the country come take the exam.
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If I understand the wording in the announcement right they put that responsibility on the Deans to notify your residency of your requirement to complete Level 2 PE.

So its not like we can just pretend we didn't get the memo and complete the Step series instead.
 
getfat said:
If I understand the wording in the announcement right they put that responsibility on the Deans to notify your residency of your requirement to complete Level 2 PE.

So its not like we can just pretend we didn't get the memo and complete the Step series instead.
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Sure you could. Licensure is the goal, not compliance with the NBOME. It all depends on the state.
 
cbc86 said:
Sure you could. Licensure is the goal, not compliance with the NBOME. It all depends on the state.
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Agreed it just seems like you would have to do a lot of smooth talking with your program

"yeah i'm a DO but i don't need to take any more COMLEX exams"

"Yeah my dean mentioned I needed to take the PE during the intern year but don't worry about it"

Could you have a PD that cared less? Yeah it's possible. I just personally think it's risky. But i'm hoping to practice in FL where i'm required to finish the COMLEX series regardless.
 
getfat said:
If I understand the wording in the announcement right they put that responsibility on the Deans to notify your residency of your requirement to complete Level 2 PE.

So its not like we can just pretend we didn't get the memo and complete the Step series instead.
Click to expand...
getfat said:
Agreed it just seems like you would have to do a lot of smooth talking with your program

"yeah i'm a DO but i don't need to take any more COMLEX exams"

"Yeah my dean mentioned I needed to take the PE during the intern year but don't worry about it"

Could you have a PD that cared less? Yeah it's possible. I just personally think it's risky. But i'm hoping to practice in FL where i'm required to finish the COMLEX series regardless.
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They care if you can get a license and keep working. All you have to do is show them the laws and I can pretty much guarantee they'll instantly stop caring
 
My personal belief is that the NBOME was financially insecure before COVID (lord knows why or what poor investments they made), and they will be in financial ruin without the PE this year. So Gimps and friends are persistently trying to save their jobs. If I were him, I would just let the NBME buy them out (if they offered). Still that is morally questionable. What do you guys think?
 
getfat said:
Agreed it just seems like you would have to do a lot of smooth talking with your program

"yeah i'm a DO but i don't need to take any more COMLEX exams"

"Yeah my dean mentioned I needed to take the PE during the intern year but don't worry about it"

Could you have a PD that cared less? Yeah it's possible. I just personally think it's risky. But i'm hoping to practice in FL where i'm required to finish the COMLEX series regardless.
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Or you could just register and pass USMLE step 3 before PE and tell them...hey I can get licensed now, no need to get that other test done

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using SDN mobile
 
Osworld said:
Why isn’t this permanently canceled yet?
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Because Gimpel wants his money. He is literally ruining DO's chances of matching this year by refusing to cancel the exam. Also, I can't believe Gimpel doesn't believe in blinding the PE result on ERAS. He doesn't care about students and only cares about his ego and wallet. The only way this exam gets cancelled is pressure from the public and city council needs to stop the NBOME from administering the exam.
 
RamsFan&FutureDO said:
I’m happy COSGP is trying to get all this information, but the fact that we’re almost into mid June without any resolution to this is ridiculous


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Someone from the Osteopathic Association in NJ mentioned that they're meeting today and the 14 with nbome, aoa and other stakeholders

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using SDN mobile
 
I saw this on Twitter, from reading her tweets she seemed to be fair and understanding of our situation. I believe her name is Tammy but I can't recall her last name, sounded like an east European last name

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EDIT: name is Tajma Kotoric
 
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qwertythrowaway said:
zoom.us

Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: SOMA Discussion with USMLE During COVID-19. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the webinar.

Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: SOMA Discussion with USMLE During COVID-19. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the webinar.
zoom.us zoom.us

is anyone signing up for this? Townhall between SOMA + USMLE tonight
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I will now, thanks for the link

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using SDN mobile
 
qwertythrowaway said:
zoom.us

Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: SOMA Discussion with USMLE During COVID-19. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the webinar.

Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: SOMA Discussion with USMLE During COVID-19. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the webinar.
zoom.us zoom.us

is anyone signing up for this? Townhall between SOMA + USMLE tonight
Click to expand...
Just signed up for this. Well see what happens
 
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