PhD/PsyD Advice for a non-traditional clinical psych student?

[MrSlyStone]

Hi everybody,

Longtime lurker, first post! I am feeling slightly lost and welcome all advice.
I am a non-traditional student (32/m) and have become interested in pursuing clinical psychology. I originally considered the LCSW path but have become more interested in a PhD; although my interests are primarily clinical right now, I really want a solid foundation in psychology and to be capable of conducting and interpreting research. I have particular interests in researching therapy modalities for mood/anxiety disorders and global mental health.

I don't have a background in psychology and am wondering how to become a competitive applicant in this very competitive field. I am considering Northwestern's psychology postbac (about $20k) and am also considering taking classes at a state university to catch up (cheaper). I am trying to avoid the MA degree due to costs and time. I am likely volunteering in a research lab in Atlanta this summer.

Is there anything else I should be doing? Do you think a formal postbac is worth it or would it be enough to get research experience and take some classes at a state school? I would be especially interested in hearing from those who did the Northwestern program.

I am coming from a background in classical music, I'm a Fulbright scholar, and I speak two other languages fluently (French and Dutch). Not sure if any of this is relevant, but just wanted to give some background. Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DSMRoxyCat]

I feel that you would be fine taking classes at a state school. Definitely get as much research experience as you can. Ideally some psuedo clinical experience too (homeless shelter, crisis hotline, group home for people with mental illness etc). I would imagine being trilingual would give you an edge. Mention it in your personal statements. Anything to make yourself stand out

 

[WisNeuro]

Prioritize the research stuff if you can. The clinical stuff is pretty low yield at the pre-graduate level and really doesn't move the needle all that much in applications. Also, just be able to tell a compelling story in your PS and in interviews when the time comes.

Oh, you'll need to think about letters of rec and who those are coming from.

 

[MrSlyStone]

Thanks very much for the replies. Much appreciated! I am trying to prioritize research experience right now and will hopefully start this summer. As for clinical work, I am currently volunteering in a psychiatric clinic where I teach music classes; interesting work, but I don't pretend this will help much with a PhD application.

So you don't think a postbac is worth it? I am sort of getting that vibe from many different people.

 

[foreverbull]

Thanks very much for the replies. Much appreciated! I am trying to prioritize research experience right now and will hopefully start this summer. As for clinical work, I am currently volunteering in a psychiatric clinic where I teach music classes; interesting work, but I don't pretend this will help much with a PhD application.

So you don't think a postbac is worth it? I am sort of getting that vibe from many different people.

A postbac may not be necessary. Just to give you a different perspective about whether clinical experience matters vs. research, I had zero research experience but solid clinical experience and was admitted to a science-practitioner program with a strong research focus, so clinical experience clearly mattered in my case and the case of some colleagues of mine.

Your research interests will also factor into admission if you get an interview, so it's good that you already have areas of interest. Getting some research experience in a lab and volunteering at a psychiatric clinic (despite it being music-focused) sounds like a fairly well-rounded background to apply with.

 

[MrSlyStone]

A postbac may not be necessary. Just to give you a different perspective about whether clinical experience matters vs. research, I had zero research experience but solid clinical experience and was admitted to a science-practitioner program with a strong research focus, so clinical experience clearly mattered in my case and the case of some colleagues of mine.

Your research interests will also factor into admission if you get an interview, so it's good that you already have areas of interest. Getting some research experience in a lab and volunteering at a psychiatric clinic (despite it being music-focused) sounds like a fairly well-rounded background to apply with.

Thanks! Very helpful. Out of curiosity are you doing a PhD or PsyD? This gives me some hope that my dreams aren't completely futile.

 

[foreverbull]

Thanks! Very helpful. Out of curiosity are you doing a PhD or PsyD? This gives me some hope that my dreams aren't completely futile.

I was in a Ph.D. program accredited by APA. So yes, there is hope!

 

[PsyDr]

I would recommend solidifying how your earlier experiences inform your interests. Many would be concerned that you are seeking education for your personal mental health rather than other career interests. A great explanation could explain why excellence in one area could translate into excellence in another. While I'm not a fan, river cuomo's Harvard admission essay is a good example of such a transistion.

Maybe you are interested in the difference electrophysiological activation of individuals exposed to classical music from a naive or musician background. Or the use of music as a metaphor in psychotherapy comparing individuals based from romance and other language structures. Or how the cultural norms of the Dutch play out in mental health (e.g., "act normal", why can't they use curtains!).

 

[MrSlyStone]

Or how the cultural norms of the Dutch play out in mental health (e.g., "act normal", why can't they use curtains!).

Haha! Now this is a study I would like to see.

 

[MrSlyStone]

Thanks for the advice. I believe I could write a compelling personal statement about what has driven me to psychology, and it thankfully isn't about wanting to fix my own problems. I will say that I was partly inspired by living abroad and seeing presentations/interpretations/treatments of mental illness in different cultures.

 

[Diirez]

A postbac may not be necessary. Just to give you a different perspective about whether clinical experience matters vs. research, I had zero research experience but solid clinical experience and was admitted to a science-practitioner program with a strong research focus, so clinical experience clearly mattered in my case and the case of some colleagues of mine.

Your research interests will also factor into admission if you get an interview, so it's good that you already have areas of interest. Getting some research experience in a lab and volunteering at a psychiatric clinic (despite it being music-focused) sounds like a fairly well-rounded background to apply with.

This seems like risky advice. It is exceptionally rare that PhD programs (especially clinical psychology) would accept someone with absolutely no research experience.

 

[psych.meout]

This seems like risky advice. It is exceptionally rare that PhD programs (especially clinical psychology) would accept someone with absolutely no research experience.

Yeah, and the kind of clinical experience available at the bachelor's level that would provide those rare admissions without any research experience are exceedingly rare.

 

[foreverbull]

Yeah, and the kind of clinical experience available at the bachelor's level that would provide those rare admissions without any research experience are exceedingly rare.

Risky? You'll notice I did NOT say no research is needed at all EVER, so let's not take this to the extreme as is typical in these forums. I offered a different opinion based on my own experiences, which may be in the minority, but isn't unheard of. I noted that research + clinically-related experience sounded like a good background to apply. I and some colleagues of mine secured a reputable doc program without significant research backgrounds or any at all, but I clearly wasn't recommending that the person NOT get research experience at all.

 

[MrSlyStone]

I will be looking for research experience either way! I've started thinking that I will begin taking some catch-up classes "at-large" while I volunteer in a lab. Does that seem like a good alternative to a postbac? I'm based in Atlanta, so I could take classes at Emory, or Georgia State, or University of Georgia, etc.

 

[deathbyrockyroad]

I will be looking for research experience either way! I've started thinking that I will begin taking some catch-up classes "at-large" while I volunteer in a lab. Does that seem like a good alternative to a postbac? I'm based in Atlanta, so I could take classes at Emory, or Georgia State, or University of Georgia, etc.

My situation is somewhat similar to yours (also coming from a background in classical music, as it happens!). I'm taking Stats and Abnormal Psych at a local CC this semester and plan to take a Research Methods/a second Stats course or some other upper-level psych class at the local state university in the fall.

Considered doing the postbac programs, too, but I couldn't justify the debt. Made absolutely no sense to me (especially since I'm saddled with a little bit of undergraduate debt) to take on $20-$40k of debt for a handful of classes that I could pay for out of pocket (for a fraction of the cost) at neighboring colleges.

Research opportunities have been very difficult to come by (I've been diligently searching/reach out to people in my area for the better part of four months now) so I'm likely headed toward an M.A program following these classes. Have been looking into programs that typically provide their students graduate assistantships/tuition wavers. If that's something that interests you (I know you said in your initial post that you weren't but thought I'd put it out there anyway), feel free to send me a message--I have a whole list of potential M.A programs that I'd be happy to share with you.

 

[MrSlyStone]

My situation is somewhat similar to yours (also coming from a background in classical music, as it happens!). I'm taking Stats and Abnormal Psych at a local CC this semester and plan to take a Research Methods/a second Stats course or some other upper-level psych class at the local state university in the fall.

Considered doing the postbac programs, too, but I couldn't justify the debt. Made absolutely no sense to me (especially since I'm saddled with a little bit of undergraduate debt) to take on $20-$40k of debt for a handful of classes that I could pay for out of pocket (for a fraction of the cost) at neighboring colleges.

Research opportunities have been very difficult to come by (I've been diligently searching/reach out to people in my area for the better part of four months now) so I'm likely headed toward an M.A program following these classes. Have been looking into programs that typically provide their students graduate assistantships/tuition wavers. If that's something that interests you (I know you said in your initial post that you weren't but thought I'd put it out there anyway), feel free to send me a message--I have a whole list of potential M.A programs that I'd be happy to share with you.

Thanks for the advice. It's a strange situation to be in, and there seem to be multiple paths to take!
I've been in touch with a clinic associated with Emory that does research into mood/anxiety disorders, and it sounds like I could start volunteering there this summer. I don't know what they will have me doing, as I don't have many useful research/analysis skills at this point. I am hoping though that, with time/experience/more classes, this could blossom into doing real work with them.

I know that paid research opportunities would be impossible for me at this point; I don't know if you've offered to volunteer for a lab yet, but I think it's (alas) the first step for people like us.