Advice needed- didn't Honor IM rotation

[Qwest]

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Just wondering, how bad is it to not Honor the IM rotation?

 

[Mumpu]

IM is not competitive except for very very top programs. Your choices may be more limited but you will definitely match in IM.

 

[atsai3]

How bad is it to not Honor the IM rotation? I tried really damn hard, but only got Near Honors. Will this have any affect on my application? (i suspect yes). Thanks

My guess is that, unless you have something cool on your CV that distinguishes you from the rest of the IM pack, at the top tier programs, not getting honors will negatively affect your chances unless you do a visiting rotation and do well.

I only have a sample size of N=1 because it happened to me. I did not honor my medicine rotation, but I did honor my medicine AI. Then I did a visiting rotation at a top ranked program. One of the former PDs interviewed me, and when I was talking with one of the assistant PDs at the end of my interview day, she told me, "*** really liked you. He said, 'I know he didn't get honors in medicine, but we should get him'."

Now what did that mean? *shrug*
Maybe the folks at this program don't like to look at students who haven't gotten medicine honors? Who knows.

Cheers
-AT.

 

[DrHeartMD]

I dont think it will make a HUGE difference depending on the remainder of your app...as the interviews offerred thread has proven, there is more to an app than grades and boards...so consider these factors as you weigh your own strength as an applicant: research, publications, LORs, boards, grades, active chair or pd willing to make calls for you, your school's rank and reputation, 3rd and basic science grades, AOA status, Unique activites in med school or in life...the list goes on...medicine is very diverse, and the population of housestaff recruited by programs varies...even the "competitive" programs offer interviews and match candidates with varied academic backgrounds...a high pass in medicine clerkship is by no means a death sentence...just try and make your app has diverse and powerful in as many places as possible, and you will set yourself up nicely for the application year...gl and ask if you have more questions...

 

[inositide]

If you are looking at any other programs besides the very top tier of IM programs, not getting the honors wont matter. HOWEVER, if you are interested in some of the top academic IM programs, not getting the honors will hurt you somewhat. The best thing to do is try to do well in your remaining rotations. Then, schedule you sub-i or AI (whatever it is called at your school) very early during 4th and try to honor it. Also, schedule an away rotation at one of the top hospitals for IM if possible. Do this early in 4th year as well to try and get a letter of rec out of it. Generally, away auditions are not required for IM but in some cases they might help.

With all that said, if the rest of your application is great with all around good grades and a good step 1 score, and you get good letters of rec, then the impact of not getting the honors will become minimal.

Another piece of advice would be to consider taking step 2ck prior to the interview stage. It is very appealing to PDs to invite applicants to interview who have already passed the step 2ck just because it is one less potential surprise the PD has to worry about.

Finally, I dont know what school you go to. At some schools, getting an honors in the medicine clerkship is extremely hard to do and honors come few and far between. If that is the case, then you need not worry because your school reputation will be known by most PDs.

 

[BigBadBix]

I also only got a high pass in my 3rd year medicine clerkship, so I feel your pain! It might be helpful to take a look at some of my previous posts to get an idea of how I've fared w/interviews, but in general my experience has been in line with what others have mentioned - you will be fine at all but the most highly competitive programs. In particular, I was rejected by MGH, Brigham, UCSF, Stanford, and Columbia. I have heard that these types of programs will do an initial screen for the honors in medicine without even reading the rest of your application. I'm now pretty sure that this is true because I had my PD call one of the places that rejected me and ask them to take another look at my file. After doing so they actually e-mailed me and retracted the rejection. I really think getting the interview is the big hurdle, because no interviewer has brought up my high pass; rather, they spend time telling me how great my application is (in fact, they usually mention how impressive the comments from my 3rd year IM clerkship were).

I hope this is somewhat encouraging. Basically, if you are OK going anywhere besides Harvard or the Bay Area, I don't think you need to worry. And even if you are, you probably still have a chance, but definitely do away rotations so that perhaps they'll consider you seriously rather than screening you out. And if you have a PD or mentor who is willing to make calls on your behalf, be sure to give that a shot as well. Can't hurt.

Good luck with the rest of third year!

-BBB

 

[Qwest]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[Mumpu]

Having finished my interviews, I'm not convinced of two things:
1) I'm not convinced "top" programs are actually top. I disliked a very top program so much that I won't even rank it.
2) I'm not convinced that fellowship placement is that dramatically different between accredited academic programs. A strong resident will get their fellowship from anywhere.

 

[Adcadet]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although, I'm a bit discouraged since I'm really interested in cardiology and would like to attend a top program for better fellowship placement. Oh well, didn't have a shot at the top programs anyways w/ my board score (~230) and no research. Good luck to all who are interviewing!

You really think 230 is that bad for IM? From what I heard, 220+ was good with around 230 as a cutoff of the most selective places. Can anybody comment on this?

 

[mackie]

Having finished my interviews, I'm not convinced of two things:
1) I'm not convinced "top" programs are actually top. I disliked a very top program so much that I won't even rank it.
2) I'm not convinced that fellowship placement is that dramatically different between accredited academic programs. A strong resident will get their fellowship from anywhere.

Very good observations, and after going through the process last year, I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[BigBadBix]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although, I'm a bit discouraged since I'm really interested in cardiology and would like to attend a top program for better fellowship placement. Oh well, didn't have a shot at the top programs anyways w/ my board score (~230) and no research. Good luck to all who are interviewing!

Don't be too discouraged. I hope it wasn't what I said that made you feel that way! I really don't think you'll have trouble getting into a program with solid cards placement.

First off, from the interviews offered thread this year, it doesn't seem that IM programs screen very stringently on Step 1 scores. I doubt a 230 will hold you back.

Secondly, while I do think it helps to be at a strong program when applying for fellowships, I don't think it's necessary to be at one of the top 5 most competitive programs in the country. There are actually a lot of IM training programs with great reputations and excellent fellowship placement, and only a handful (essentially just those I listed in my previous post, +/- Hopkins) are so insanely competitive as to shut you out for not getting the big H in medicine. For example, I was offered interviews at: Duke (half their residents do cards, at GREAT places), Cornell, Mt. Sinai, NYU, UW, UCLA, UCSD, BID, Colorado, UTSW, Baylor, UC Davis and OHSU. I am quite impressed with the fellowship placement at nearly all of these programs. Though I didn't apply at Penn, Wash U, Northwestern, U Chicago, and Yale, word of mouth is that they are also excellent programs that are more attainable for those of us with a less-than-perfect application. So don't sell yourself short just yet.

-BBB

 

[Hotsauce21]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although, I'm a bit discouraged since I'm really interested in cardiology and would like to attend a top program for better fellowship placement. Oh well, didn't have a shot at the top programs anyways w/ my board score (~230) and no research. Good luck to all who are interviewing!

i dont know what you're smoking. 230 is fine just about anywhere. I dont think a 230 would keep you out of damn near anything, medicine or not.

oh, i didnt honor medicine either, and i got into a top 10 school.