Affirmative Action

[sliceofbread136]

can you cite your sources? I feel like you are making a logical jump here. Are asians ACTUALLY over represented in medicine? How do you KNOW they are held to higher standards?

I am not trying to bust ur balls here. These are just very common rumors that get spread and I have yet to see real numbers to back them. A stat posted earlier said that 5% of the general population is asian, so "over represented" could just mean that 10% of med students are asian. And this would already take a significant chuck out of the remaining asians who are busy learning karate, building fighting robot suits, and generally being angsty (ive watched anime... I know whats up ). I think in my class of about 150 we only have 7-8 asian kids - and out of them I don't know of any that have particularly stunning resumes when compared to other demographics within the class. They are fairly white bread, if you excuse the expression.

I don't actually have any sources. My view has been almost 100% shaped by LizzyM's opinion because I am that much of a sheep. But I know I see a ton Indian doctors (who I am including in asian), and quite a few oriental doctors in the hospital I volunteer at, so I am not surprised to here that asians are overrepresented in medicine.

I'd look for an accredited source but I have a test tomorrow :/

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[SpecterGT260]

I do actually have any sources. My view has been almost 100% shaped by LizzyM's opinion because I am that much of a sheep. But I know I see a ton Indian doctors (who I am including in asian), and quite a few oriental doctors in the hospital I volunteer at, so I am not surprised to here that asians are overrepresented in medicine.

I'd look for an accredited source but I have a test tomorrow :/

I'll wait till tomorrow afternoon then lol. I still doubt you will find any real evidence that there is a disadvantage to being asian. If anything they are just not given any advantage like some groups are.


what are the race demographics of the race-blind states? anyone know? and the corresponding state demographic numbers with in-state seats vs out of state seats.
id google it but i have to get some reading done and im worried this is going to become a huge distraction lol

 

[NickNaylor]

I'll wait till tomorrow afternoon then lol. I still doubt you will find any real evidence that there is a disadvantage to being asian. If anything they are just not given any advantage like some groups are.


what are the race demographics of the race-blind states? anyone know? and the corresponding state demographic numbers with in-state seats vs out of state seats.
id google it but i have to get some reading done and im worried this is going to become a huge distraction lol

Just look at the average statistics of Asian applicants: they're higher than those of whites. Could it be that they're simply doing better on exams? Perhaps, but it could also be due to the increased competition amongst that group due to over-representation.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I'll wait till tomorrow afternoon then lol. I still doubt you will find any real evidence that there is a disadvantage to being asian. If anything they are just not given any advantage like some groups are.


what are the race demographics of the race-blind states? anyone know? and the corresponding state demographic numbers with in-state seats vs out of state seats.
id google it but i have to get some reading done and im worried this is going to become a huge distraction lol

https://www.aamc.org/download/161338/data/table15.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

20% of applicants were asian, while asians only make up ~5% of the american population. This info is on applicants not actual doctors, but it does point to the disparity in racial representation.

I should really start studying lol

 

[kpcrew]

Aww, did I upset you by using a 3-worded phrase in a way that wasn't to your liking?
Did that make you cry? Aww, I'm sorry.....man, get over it. I could talk about your run on's and misuse of a comma, but......dang, I guess I just did lol . Sadly, it did nothing to contribute to the convo eh.

In fact, instead of looking up a site about the use of 'begs the question', how about you instead look up some info on AA and get back at me.

Now, if you want to converse with me about my views on AA, then please do so.....but if all you want to do is bicker about such small things, then either PM me about it so the flow of the conversation won't be disturbed, or just please leave my SDN name out your mouth.

This is actually a good thread. This is possibly the best thread about AA in a while, so let's concentrate on the subject at hand, and not about small phrases, or good vs well....smh....

this thread happens all the time. i didn't need to look up the site, i knew you were wrong so stop your whinging. it's run ons, not run on's. you really need to learn the rules of grammar. for instance, the difference between the plural and the possessive.

 

[sliceofbread136]

this thread happens all the time. i didn't need to look up the site, i knew you were wrong so stop your whinging. it's run ons, not run on's. you really need to learn the rules of grammar. for instance, the difference between the plural and the possessive.

Who really cares about grammar on the internet? My philosophy is if I can understand it then I don't really care if it's 100% correct.

 

[management]

can you cite your sources? I feel like you are making a logical jump here. Are asians ACTUALLY over represented in medicine? How do you KNOW they are held to higher standards?

I am not trying to bust ur balls here. These are just very common rumors that get spread and I have yet to see real numbers to back them. A stat posted earlier said that 5% of the general population is asian, so "over represented" could just mean that 10% of med students are asian. And this would already take a significant chuck out of the remaining asians who are busy learning karate, building fighting robot suits, and generally being angsty (ive watched anime... I know whats up ). I think in my class of about 150 we only have 7-8 asian kids - and out of them I don't know of any that have particularly stunning resumes when compared to other demographics within the class. They are fairly white bread, if you excuse the expression.

I'm not knocking Sliceofbread's opinion either, but could it be that certain areas and cities in the US have a huge population of Asian doctors as opposed to others, thus feeding into the belief that Asian doctors are greatly over-represented in medicine? Just a question.

 

[SpecterGT260]

https://www.aamc.org/download/160146/data/table31-new-enrll-raceeth-sch-2010-web.pdf

and they seem to be getting in at similar rates than application (21% total enrollment).

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf

and comparable MCAT to white (29.2 vs 29.0 for average applicant)

if they were being held to higher standards, wouldnt it stand to reason that if they constitute 20% of applicants that they would constitute <20% of accepted students given the same MCAT?

EDIT: for some reason thought they were 17% total application.... not sure where I got that.

 

[management]

Who really cares about grammar on the internet? My philosophy is if I can understand it then I don't really care if it's 100% correct.

Exactly. And good luck on your test tomorrow.

 

[zwitterion34]

this thread happens all the time. i didn't need to look up the site, i knew you were wrong so stop your whinging. it's run ons, not run on's. you really need to learn the rules of grammar. for instance, the difference between the plural and the possessive.

 

[Medicinewoman85]

I don't understand why people oppose Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may not benefit from it? If AA was in your favor would you complain then?

Truly I believe that race shouldn't be a factor, but it is. This is the society that we live in. Because our country has a long history of racial inequality among several different races, this is our society's way of "making it fair" for the African Americans. To me there are far more important things to focus on such as making sure my daughter's elementary school doesn't lose any more teachers, or providing more funding for the schools so that these students can have the same level of education as students who live in "better" neighborhoods.

Does anybody even KNOW why affirmative action was put in place in the first place. I assume many of the pre meds on SDN are too young to remember or even care but it wasn't too long ago that AA were not welcomed or admitted to medical schools unless they were Meharry or Morehouse. Medical schools were predominantly white for a reason. My great uncle had to be escorted by US Marshalls when he attended college for the first time and that was just 50 years ago!

But like I say race shouldn't be a factor when selecting a qualified applicant for med school but sometimes it is. How many of you who are NOT URM plan to practice in undeserved areas?

 

[trackstr22]

I doubt that many of these white pre meds that come from affluent families will try and practice medicine in a community full of Black or Hispanic people. That is one among many reasons why there should be AA.

 

[zwitterion34]

I don't understand why people oppose Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may not benefit from it? If AA was in your favor would you complain then?

Truly I believe that race shouldn't be a factor, but it is. This is the society that we live in. Because our country has a long history of racial inequality among several different races, this is our society's way of "making it fair" for the African Americans. To me there are far more important things to focus on such as making sure my daughter's elementary school doesn't lose any more teachers, or providing more funding for the schools so that these students can have the same level of education as students who live in "better" neighborhoods.

Does anybody even KNOW why affirmative action was put in place in the first place. I assume many of the pre meds on SDN are too young to remember or even care but it wasn't too long ago that AA were not welcomed or admitted to medical schools unless they were Meharry or Morehouse. Medical schools were predominantly white for a reason. My great uncle had to be escorted by US Marshalls when he attended college for the first time and that was just 50 years ago!

But like I say race shouldn't be a factor when selecting a qualified applicant for med school but sometimes it is. How many of you who are NOT URM plan to practice in undeserved areas?

I will if I do not specialize. URM students who are able to specialize will not serve in these underserved areas likewise. There are plenty of incentives in place to serve in these areas if one does not specialize (i.e. loan forgiveness)

 

[zwitterion34]

I will if I do not specialize. URM students who are able to specialize will not serve in these underserved areas likewise. There are plenty of incentives in place to serve in these areas if one does not specialize (i.e. loan forgiveness)

Instead of if I do not specialize, it should be if I am unable to specialize.

 

[sibitrum]

I don't understand why people oppose Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may not benefit from it? If AA was in your favor would you complain then?

I don't understand why people support Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may benefit from it? If AA was not in your favor would you complain then?

I doubt that many of these white pre meds that come from affluent families will try and practice medicine in a community full of Black or Hispanic people. That is one among many reasons why there should be AA.

I doubt that many of these AA-benefiting pre meds that come from affluent families will try and [sic] practice medicine in a community full of White people. That is one among many reasons why there should be no AA.

 

[Medicinewoman85]

I doubt that many of these white pre meds that come from affluent families will try and practice medicine in a community full of Black or Hispanic people. That is one among many reasons why there should be AA.

Agreed. Not there anything is wrong with not wanting to practice there. Its a free country, practice where you want.

 

[Medicinewoman85]

I don't understand why people support Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may benefit from it? If AA was not in your favor would you complain then?

I doubt that many of these AA-benefiting pre meds that come from affluent families will try and [sic] practice medicine in a community full of White people. That is one among many reasons why there should be no AA.

I wouldn't complain either way. But being that I am an AA I have heard the horror stories from the elders in my family of what they have endured. So yes I support affirmative action. There are just not enough black doctors to serve our communities. If you have a problem with AA take it up with congress, or you can get over it.

I wouldn't mind working with predominantely whites if they are underserved. I come from a very affluent family and I benefit from AA. So whats your point? Or do you have one? Probably not.

 

[LizzyM]

Never mind the observation that on average URM graduates are more likely than non-URM graduates to serve in underserved areas....

There is evidence that diversity within a group improves the performance of the group:

http://www.trueinsightsconsulting.com/file/sites|*|329|*|difference_page_e.pdf

So, regardless of where physicians may serve after graduation, problem solving and team work within the medical school is better when the class is diverse.

 

[NickNaylor]

I don't understand why people support Affirmative Action so strongly. Is it because you may benefit from it? If AA was not in your favor would you complain then?

I think you forgot the part where in many parts of the country, minorities, particularly African Americans, were specifically and systematically discriminated against by the government. I may disagree that AA as its currently implemented is ideal, but if you seriously believe that minorities are no longer feeling the repercussions of that prejudice then you're sorely mistaken. Many minorities have very legitimate claims that, were it not for government prejudice, their situation would be much better than it currently is. I think its appropriate for schools to take that into account when making admissions decisions. Unfortunately, most AA programs have strayed from that purpose and no longer focus on that goal as much as simply meeting explicit or implicit racial quotas.

 

[zwitterion34]

Never mind the observation that on average URM graduates are more likely than non-URM graduates to serve in underserved areas....

There is evidence that diversity within a group improves the performance of the group:

http://www.trueinsightsconsulting.com/file/sites|*|329|*|difference_page_e.pdf

So, regardless of where physicians may serve after graduation, problem solving and team work within the medical school is better when the class is diverse.

I am a skeptic. People who publish these studies may have a certain agenda. Any data can be subjected to manipulations.

I think more can be achieved from a group of highest achieving people.

 

[zwitterion34]

Also you mentioned that URM graduates were more likely to serve in underserved areas compared to their non-URM counterparts. Perhaps the reason was because they were not able to specialize. They were not able to specialize because they had lower scores. They had lower board scores because they were only accepted because of AA. Thus, the only logical step would be to work in an underserved area.

As mentioned before, if I am unable to specialize I too will consider working in an underserved area.

 

[sibitrum]

Never mind the observation that on average URM graduates are more likely than non-URM graduates to serve in underserved areas....

There is evidence that diversity within a group improves the performance of the group:

http://www.trueinsightsconsulting.com/file/sites|*|329|*|difference_page_e.pdf

So, regardless of where physicians may serve after graduation, problem solving and team work within the medical school is better when the class is diverse.

But in practice, the "diversity" we are talking about wrt AA is based purely on skin color. The idea that this should lead to cognitive differences harkens back to classical racism. I don't have a problem with looking to fill a class with students who are passionate about different things, including serving the underserved, doing research, playing the violin, etc. The problem comes when diversity in admissions is about a check box. As a said in my previous post, this leads to resentment by non-minorities as well as low expectations for URMs, which sets them up for less success. AA is really a means for white people to stay in power.

I think you forgot the part where in many parts of the country, minorities, particularly African Americans, were specifically and systematically discriminated against by the government. I may disagree that AA as its currently implemented is ideal, but if you seriously believe that minorities are no longer feeling the repercussions of that prejudice then you're sorely mistaken. Many minorities have very legitimate claims that, were it not for government prejudice, their situation would be much better than it currently is. I think its appropriate for schools to take that into account when making admissions decisions. Unfortunately, most AA programs have strayed from that purpose and no longer focus on that goal as much as simply meeting explicit or implicit racial quotas.

But AA in med school admissions is a misplaced way of going about it. You're talking about targeting the most successful people, who presumably either weren't exposed to significant amounts of these barriers or who overcame them and no longer need Uncle Adcom to take care of them.

Furthermore, if you extend your argument to its logical conclusions, there should be affirmative action for ugly people, who are systematically discriminated against, yet have no legal or social recourse to make up for it.

 

[trackstr22]

Also you mentioned that URM graduates were more likely to serve in underserved areas compared to their non-URM counterparts. Perhaps the reason was because they were not able to specialize. They were not able to specialize because they had lower scores. They had lower board scores because they were only accepted because of AA. Thus, the only logical step would be to work in an underserved area.

As mentioned before, if I am unable to specialize I too will consider working in an underserved area.

You are jumping to conclusions and assuming that most URMs got accepted to medical school solely because of affirmative action. I interviewed at Howard medical school(A school with a high percentage of URMS and a 26 median MCAT) in January and only 10% of the class went into primary care. I am also in a mentoring program at MUSC and the black males at the university are matching into many different specialties ranging from neurology to plastic surgery.

 

[trackstr22]

Furthermore, if you extend your argument to its logical conclusions, there should be affirmative action for ugly people, who are systematically discriminated against, yet have no legal or social recourse to make up for it.

Are you seriously comparing being ugly to systematic racial discrimination? Ugly is subjective ex. "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and being a URM is not. That is an extremely weak argument.

 

[LizzyM]

I am a skeptic. People who publish these studies may have a certain agenda. Any data can be subjected to manipulations.

I think more can be achieved from a group of highest achieving people.

Think what you wish but do the research to prove that what you think is objectively factual.

What do you think of this article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/science/08conv.html

 

[Owlie]

This reminds me that many people voted for Barack Obama simply because he's black. Now look where we're at....

Although, it doesn't really matter who is president because God is always in control, what I'm saying is, many people voted for him because he is black (not all), and probably regret it because of the job he's doing. They should've been paying more attention to pertinent aspects. I say we blindfold all adcoms, and make the pre-meds monotone when they interview so no one knows their ethnicity.

Maybe, for one year, let's cease AA, and see who gets in. Whoever lacks should get the proper assistance to encourage scholastic growth.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'm hearing a lot of AA bashing but no one has a suitable alternative. There is no perfect way, you will never please everyone. You know going into the battle what your chances are. The responsibility relies on you to achieve, not the other way around. And AA is not really affecting med school classes that drastically. Look at how many minority students there are in the average medical school class. If 4 people out of 100 are your focus then your attentions are misplaced.

 

[zwitterion34]

You are jumping to conclusions and assuming that most URMs got accepted to medical school solely because of affirmative action. I interviewed at Howard medical school(A school with a high percentage of URMS and a 26 median MCAT) in January and only 10% of the class went into primary care. I am also in a mentoring program at MUSC and the black males at the university are matching into many different specialties ranging from neurology to plastic surgery.

What the information you provided suggests is that AA is not serving its intended purpose which is based on "statistics" that URM graduates are more likely to serve in underserved areas than their counterparts, the non-URM graduates. Might as well scrap AA.

 

[Owlie]

I'm hearing a lot of AA bashing but no one has a suitable alternative. There is no perfect way, you will never please everyone. You know going into the battle what your chances are. The responsibility relies on you to achieve, not the other way around. And AA is not really affecting med school classes that drastically. Look at how many minority students there are in the average medical school class. If 4 people out of 100 are your focus then your attentions are misplaced.

I gave at least one part of an explanation to replace AA. And it is not a fallacy to recognize something is wrong without having a solution.

 

[sibitrum]

Are you seriously comparing being ugly to systematic racial discrimination? Ugly is subjective ex. "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and being a URM is not. That is an extremely weak argument.

Yes, I am, and I think they are at a comparable level of discrimination today. First off, there are objective standards of beauty, i.e. based off of ratings from other people. Look at this article, for example. It demonstrates significant drops in lifetime earnings for those who are uglier. Furthermore, is not race to some extent also in the "eye of the beholder"? I would say the concept of race is not dissimilar to that of beauty. Is there not a certain multidimensionality to having mixed genetic heritage, culture, and upbringing that changes the way someone is viewed from a racial (or beauty) perspective?

I'm hearing a lot of AA bashing but no one has a suitable alternative. There is no perfect way, you will never please everyone. You know going into the battle what your chances are. The responsibility relies on you to achieve, not the other way around. And AA is not really affecting med school classes that drastically. Look at how many minority students there are in the average medical school class. If 4 people out of 100 are your focus then your attentions are misplaced.

There is an easy alternative: do nothing. I know people don't think of this as a policy alternative but really sometimes it's for the best. If you want the responsibility to be on the individual to achieve, then why institute AA, which seems to put an emphasis on the exact opposite? If the effect is so small then why do you care if there's AA at all?

 

[zwitterion34]

Think what you wish but do the research to prove that what you think is objectively factual.

What do you think of this article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/science/08conv.html

Both articles are about this character Scott E. Page. Perhaps Scott has an ulterior motive.

 

[Telekinesis]

I gave at least one part of an explanation to replace AA. And it is not a fallacy to recognize something is wrong without having a solution.

What you offered is not a suitable solution. Then you would have a lot of doctors who look great on paper but lack people skills. Based on your method, you might as well not have the interview.

 

[NickNaylor]

But AA in med school admissions is a misplaced way of going about it. You're talking about targeting the most successful people, who presumably either weren't exposed to significant amounts of these barriers or who overcame them and no longer need Uncle Adcom to take care of them.

Furthermore, if you extend your argument to its logical conclusions, there should be affirmative action for ugly people, who are systematically discriminated against, yet have no legal or social recourse to make up for it.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you: I think AA has been too thoroughly "institutionalized" such that it is no more than checking a box as you say. I think a quality AA program would seriously consider that individual applicant's experiences especially as they relate to discrimination, his/her family history, and other things that are significantly more pertinent than simply race. Unfortunately this would take far too much time and money compared to what medical schools are willing to spend.

I think we can reasonably agree that ugly people being discriminated against and the situations minorities dealt with really aren't comparable. Ugly people weren't rounded up and imprisoned for years less than 70 years ago (referring to Japanese internment camps here). Nor were they sprayed down with fire hoses, attacked by dogs and police officers for peacefully protesting, or forbidden to use certain public services - all within the last 50-60 years. Keep in mind that many, many people alive today vividly remember those experiences. These things aren't events that happened "some long time ago." They're a recent part of our cultural history that still shapes people today.

 

[zwitterion34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jian_Li

Would you like more of these stories? I think it would be best if admission was based solely on achievements rather than the color of your skin.

 

[sibitrum]

I think we can reasonably agree that ugly people being discriminated against and the situations minorities dealt with really aren't comparable. Ugly people weren't rounded up and imprisoned for years less than 70 years ago (referring to Japanese internment camps here). Nor were they sprayed down with fire hoses, attacked by dogs and police officers for peacefully protesting, or forbidden to use certain public services - all within the last 50-60 years. Keep in mind that many, many people alive today vividly remember those experiences. These things aren't events that happened "some long time ago." They're a recent part of our cultural history that still shapes people today.

I agree, those things are terrible. However, they are not occurring to your average URM applicant to med school. By this line of reasoning, we would have to promote AA for Japanese people. But we don't, because the purpose isn't for reparations to the descendents of these people.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you: I think AA has been too thoroughly "institutionalized" such that it is no more than checking a box as you say. I think a quality AA program would seriously consider that individual applicant's experiences especially as they relate to discrimination, his/her family history, and other things that are significantly more pertinent than simply race. Unfortunately this would take far too much time and money compared to what medical schools are willing to spend.

I think we can reasonably agree that ugly people being discriminated against and the situations minorities dealt with really aren't comparable. Ugly people weren't rounded up and imprisoned for years less than 70 years ago (referring to Japanese internment camps here). Nor were they sprayed down with fire hoses, attacked by dogs and police officers for peacefully protesting, or forbidden to use certain public services - all within the last 50-60 years. Keep in mind that many, many people alive today vividly remember those experiences. These things aren't events that happened "some long time ago." They're a recent part of our cultural history that still shapes people today.

Voice of reason. I applaud you my fellow Texan.

 

[NickNaylor]

I agree, those things are terrible. However, they are not occurring to your average URM applicant to med school. By this line of reasoning, we would have to promote AA for Japanese people. But we don't, because the purpose isn't for reparations to the descendents of these people.

I agree with you there, and I think that's the direct result of the "institutionalization" of AA programs you referred to. You seem to suggest that AA programs altogether have no place in admissions. I agree that AA programs as they currently are aren't ideal, but I don't think that means that AA as a concept has no merit. It simply needs to be reformed. If a Japanese applicant that was directly harmed by their grandparents being deterred in internment camps, I would have absolutely no problem with them receiving an "advantage" in college, medical, or whatever admissions.

Keep in mind that minorities, DESPITE these programs, represent very small portions of classes. Top schools especially tend to struggle to recruit minorities. Whether AA is present or not, you likely wouldn't notice a difference.

 

[zwitterion34]

I agree with you there, and I think that's the direct result of the "institutionalization" of AA programs you referred to. You seem to suggest that AA programs altogether have no place in admissions. I agree that AA programs as they currently are aren't ideal, but I don't think that means that AA as a concept has no merit. It simply needs to be reformed.

Perhaps AA should only consider your family income. For instance, I know several students with wealthy parents who are of African-American descent and are hoping to use this as an advantage.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

For my part, I found a 10 page thread about affirmative action that probably already touched on everything you've been arguing about here 4 years ago:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=534518&page=10

Heres a 5 page thread from 2 years ago, I think I see some familiar faces on there:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=705586

All of your arguments have already been on here before...over and over again

 

[Neurosis]

For my part, I found a 10 page thread about affirmative action that probably already touched on everything you've been arguing about here 4 years ago:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=534518&page=10

Heres a 5 page thread from 2 years ago, I think I see some familiar faces on there:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=705586

All of your arguments have already been on here before...over and over again

boo, it was getting good.

 

[LizzyM]

But in practice, the "diversity" we are talking about wrt AA is based purely on skin color. The idea that this should lead to cognitive differences harkens back to classical racism. I don't have a problem with looking to fill a class with students who are passionate about different things, including serving the underserved, doing research, playing the violin, etc. The problem comes when diversity in admissions is about a check box. As a said in my previous post, this leads to resentment by non-minorities as well as low expectations for URMs, which sets them up for less success. AA is really a means for white people to stay in power.

No, it isn't about skin color.... Some people who identify as Asian Indians have darker skin than some African-Americans. Hispanics comes in a variety of hues. The point is that variety of race and gender can be a strength in a group because of cognitive differences which means a different way of thinking about and approaching a problem. I don't know how that relates to classical racism.

Scott Page is a professor at U Michigan, for those of you who asked:
http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~spage/bio.html

 

[235788]

Perhaps AA should only consider your family income. For instance, I know several students with wealthy parents who are of African-American descent and are hoping to use this as an advantage.

I think income should be a major thing. Do you think obama's kids deserve AA?

I've always thought that AA degrades the group it helps, by basically telling them they need a handicap in this world.

 

[zwitterion34]

[YOUTUBE]EqQUTmjB-YE[/YOUTUBE]

Give me the gold!

 

[Telekinesis]

I think income should be a major thing. Do you think obama's kids deserve AA?

I've always thought that AA degrades the group it helps, by basically telling them they need a handicap in this world.

Ok let me give you this example. I have grandparents who don't know how to read. You're telling me that kinda stuff doesn't affect future generations.

 

[Neurosis]

I think income should be a major thing. Do you think obama's kids deserve AA?

I've always thought that AA degrades the group it helps, by basically telling them they need a handicap in this world.

I don't really understand what you mean by degrade? I mean, it's not like AA significantly affects the classes. You guys are severely overestimating the power of URM status.

 

[235788]

Ok let me give you this example. I have grandparents who don't know how to read. You're telling me that kinda stuff doesn't affect future generations.

ehhh, not sure if that is the best example.

So did you have trouble reading because of it?

My great grandparents on one side only spoke polish, but my mother did just fine.

A grandfather on the other side was incredibly racist, but it didn't seem to taint my father or me either.

Maybe my family is just unique...

 

[Telekinesis]

ehhh, not sure if that is the best example.

So did you have trouble reading because of it?

My great grandparents on one side only spoke polish, but my mother did just fine.

But could they write Polish? Not only they couldn't read but try being in Jim Crow south as a black person. The same grandparent had his hand cut off by a white lynch mob. And you're telling me AA doesn't help things that happened only like 50-60 years ago?

 

[Owlie]

I'm done with this. Most people are just bickering rather than exhibiting serious conviction to solve a problem :\

 

[235788]

I don't really understand what you mean by degrade? I mean, it's not like AA significantly affects the classes. You guys are severely overestimating the power of URM status.

AA as a whole.

Just imagine if you were the benefactor... How would you feel?

Lets hug it out.

 

[Telekinesis]

AA as a whole.

Just imagine if you were the benefactor... How would you feel?

Lets hug it out.

Let me counter with this. If a door is opened for you, does it make you feel less of a person if you walk through said door?