Allopathic vs Osteopathic Residency

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

NUgirl

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
406
Reaction score
1
I was wondering if someone can please tell me the reason(s) why a DO student wants/needs to pursue an allopathic residency instead of an osteopathic residency? :confused:

Also, how is it possible to study for both the comlex and usmle at the same time?

Thanks! :)

Members don't see this ad.
 
Allopathic... Those are the MD's right? Now can they prescribe medicine and do surgery like DOs? ;)

Anyways, why would a DO student want/need to do an allopathic residency? I suppose there are a number of reasons why people want want do an allopathic versus an osteopathic residency. Some of these reasons a student might consider:

  • The student believes that anything allopathic is better than anything osteopathic.
  • No osteopathic residency exists in the field the student is interested in.
  • No osteopathic residency exists in the area of the country the student wishes to be located.
  • The student wishes to do a competitive fellowship of some sort and he/she believes an allopathic program will make him/her a better applicant.
  • The student has a strong interest in research.

These are just a few of the reasons an osteopathic student might consider going into an allopathic program. I am sure there are more.

Personally, I made my decision based on the hospital I wish to train at, not because of its affiliation with allopathic or osteopathic organizations. It just so happens that the hospital I selected happens to have an osteopathic program. So I'll be completing an AOA Internal Medicine residency program (like a good DO). :D

Basically, there is no right or wrong as far as allopathic vs osteopathic training programs. Jot down all of the qualities you are looking for in a residency program, and then check out both allopathic and osteopathic programs. Then decide what is best for you and your family.

Finally, you asked how it is possible to study for both the COMLEX and USMLE. You state this making the assumption that the two are greatly different. While there are some slight differences in the format, etc. you can rest assured that the actual material is pretty much the same with minor differences in the degree to which material is represented on the exam (e.g., COMLEX = greater clinical emphasis; USMLE = greater basic science emphasis, etc.). The COMLEX, of course, will also contain OMM questions on it which, depending on your interest and knowledge in OMM, will either make you or break you.
 
Just as sawbones stated...the reasons are numerous. I chose this direction because of reputation, academic strength of the residency and the diversity of larger hospitals. But I still belong to the AOA and donate to the state PAC.
Do what is best for YOU.
As for the COMLEX and USMLE, I studied the same (except for OMM).
 
Members don't see this ad :)
If you are in an allopathic residency, did you do the AOA-approved internship year? Do you have to do one to get licensed? If so, then do you apply for your residency before or after you do your internship, and is getting the internship a different application process? I understand that there are some programs out there that have both AOA and ACGME accreditation, which would make things simpler, but those make up only 10% of all residency programs.
 
Originally posted by atty
Why do you still belong to the AOA and donate to the state PAC if you are doing an allopathic residency? And JP Hazelton has been justifying the low USMLE pass rates of osteopaths because the material is so different. Is this true, or is the OMM is the only real difference?
Just trying to understand this whole osteopathic/allopathic difference.

Why wouldn't DocWagner still belong to the AOA? He is an osteopathic physician. Like he said, he chose the program because it had the characteristics that he was looking for.

As for what advantages or disadvantages that allo/osteo residencies confer, it all depends on what field you're looking to go into. There simply aren't enough osteopathic residency positions to accomodate all the DO graduates, especially in the specialties.

There's my $0.02...
 
isn't it all about opportunity??? If a certain residency will give you greater opportunities, a greater education, greater contact with diverse patients and illness-- isn't that the best residency for you? DO or MD-- means nothing (at least to me) If there is a super MD residency, i'll apply. If there is an outstanding DO residency, i'll apply. Do i care which i get? Only if i think one will provide more/better opportunities.

why go to an osteopathic school (unless you couldn't get into a MD school) if you are going to enter an allopathic residency?

as for this comment....WHY NOT?!?!?! Not one person has been able to give me a straight/real response to this....other than reputation crap. There are a ton of DO's in MD residencies and there'll be a ton more, until that changes this type of question is both ignorant and unimportant. If a DO gets matched into an MD residency and ends up working side by side with MD's in practice-- is there any difference in that DO's training/ability as compared to his MD counterparts?
 
atty, i agree with you, i don't want to start yet another pointless DO/MD bashing.....but i still ask why not??? If someone can go to a lowly, second-class DO school and still land a prestigious MD residency does it matter in the end where they went to school?
 
Perhaps people are choosing these prestigious residencies, and they just happen to be allopathic? There are just so many more allopathic residencies out there. By the time residency comes around, everybody already has their MD or DO degree. Since the education of each is supposed to be equivalent, DOs can pursue MD residencies. Curiously, MDs can't go into DO residencies. That, to me, shows that as a DO, I would have more opportunities. There are numerous threads with people asking about the differences between MD and DO, why do one when you can do the other, and are a few helpful posts within them that you might be interested in. Good luck!
 
Atty,

I think the crux of the issue is that some allopathic residency programs within some specialties are stronger than osteopathic residency programs within the same specialty. The converse of this statement is also true. I think one characteristic that successful physicians (allopathic or osteopathic) have in common is that they take advantage of opportunities to improve their skills and advance their knowledge. Although I'm proud to be a DO, I felt that the top allopathic programs within my specialty offered me the best training opportunities. Therefore I applied to allopathic residency programs and matched at my first choice. I also continue to belong to the AOA and have served on AOA committees as a resident.
 
Didn't mean to start a controversial debate.

Reputation wasn't my number one reason, rather the first thing I typed.
In EM in particular, pathology and numbers of patients are KEY. Academics, reputation of the program, and length of the program are also important issues. The Allopathic 1-3 residency pathway was exactly what I was looking for. Intensity in year one...not the internship year THEN residency approach, was what I was looking for. I feel very lucky to be in this program.
But primarily do the correct thing for yourself and your family. Many DO residencies offer GREAT training and opportunities...they produce incredible Attending Physicians. Seek them out and do your research.
As for the AOA PAC, they fight for the rights of Physicians and patients! Hell yeah I am gonna stay active. I have also been an AMA member for 5 years!
 
I would definately say location is a big thing too. If you want to be a DO, but not spend another three+ years in the state where the DO school is...then a MD residency is for you. I personally wish the AOA would get their butts in gear and get a nice FP program going in Hawaii....that would be sweet. :)


Also, there are specially reasons: as of right now MD's have some different programs that DO's do and vice versa. For example, if you want to go FP/ER combined, then go DO because MD doesn't have that as far as I know. The same goes for Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine, MD's do not have that residency either.

If you want ER with tons of trauma, there are probably more MD spots that one could find something like that than in the DO spots.

Of course there will always be the MD wannabes who go do a MD residency just so they can "prove" they are the same thing.
 
this is in response to the issue or question asked about why someone mentioned that they go to a more prestigious allo residency :
there are MORE allo residencies in general than osteo residencies, therefore there are more "prestigious" allo residencies therefore if you apply strictly based on prestige, you are MORE likely to get into the MD place.
 
I think a big thing that no one touched on is that DOs are very actively recruited into MD residencies by MDs themselves. I've seen it happen more times that I can count, at least in NY. DO residency slots, since they are fewer in number and have a great demand than supply, dont have to work as hard to find residents. Granted, we may not being talking neurosurg at harvard, but most of the programs that 99% of us will be applying to all have the same challenges in todays healthcare climate.... they need to fill their spots to pay the bills. In NY, the feds pay a hospital more than $120,000 a year per resident. The hospital kicks back 40k to the resident, buys some insurance for him/her, and they bank a cool 60K, for doing nothing, plus they save the hospital cash by being able to send the attending home, hence they probably make much, much more in the billing the resident brings into the hospital. It only makes sense to fill your spots and fill them early.

My point is, MD programs, regardless of their quality, perceived or actual, know when they see a good doctor. When so, they recruit. DO programs dont do this as much, hence they lose students, often not because the MD program was better, it was because the DO student was made to feel by that program that they were wanted. If you think this isnt true, wait till you experience it.
 
How do all these posts apply to a state like Pennsylvania where an osteopathic residency is required?:confused:
 
An osteopathic residency is not required in pennsylvania, only a rotating internship. The rotating internship is different than your residency, it's your post-grad 1 year, in which you rotate on different services with a concentration in what your eventual specialty will be. There are ways you can do an MD residency and have your first year, which is often a rotating internship, (or transitional year), count towards your osteopathic internship. It takes a little persuasive power in applying to the AOA for it I believe.

Stay tuned however, the AOA has recently made changes to the requirements for the internship (cutting it in half from 6 rotations to 3) and more changes may be in the works. Many of the old-timer D.Os are against the changes, fearing the rotating internship is a big part of what makes D.O.'s, even D.O. specialists, appreciate the "holistic" philosophy towards medicine. The switch was made basically to help keep the "eager" D.O.s, who didnt want to waste an entire year and thus be behind their MD counterparts in PGY-2, from venturing off into MD-land and never returning. The AOA is also talking about putting their stamp on ACGME (MD) residency programs, so those programs will be dual-certified, hence giving D.O. students more options. That is a distict possibility over the next few years.
 
To those who belong to the "problematic" states...

Be VERY careful if you are considering an MD residency. Don't assume that a particular rotation will be accepted by the AOA. One of my mentors (KCOM grad) did an allopathic medicine internship followed by an allopathic anesthesia residency. When he went to petition the AOA to allow his PGY-1 to count as an AOA internship, it was denied, because he hadn't done a general peds rotation. He had spent 6 weeks in a NICU and another 6 weeks in a PICU, but because they weren't general, they didn't count.

It doesn't matter, as he's practicing in Alabama. But if he were to ever move to one of those states (Penn, etc.), he wouldn't be able to practice.
 
I agree, be careful, but as I said, the AOA has changed the requirements a bit for the rotation, tending to make the requirements more lax. As of Feb 2002, the traditional rotating internship no longer requires Peds, Ob/Gyn or surgery. Hence only ER, FP, and medicine are required. This may open some doors for people and allow them to maintain their ties to the AOA yet do an MD residency.
 
Any idea when these so called "changes" will take effect or are they sort of on a "sliding schedule".... Just curious when we will hear some definitive (and long needed) changes coming from the E-board of the AOA.

care
 
Top