Am I Being Unrealistic?

[irish_pompano]

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Hi Everyone,

Sorry to post yet another dreaded 'what are my chances'...but I would appreciate the help more than you can imagine.

My stats: ugrad GPA 2.6/grad GPA 4.0/GRE 1160 V570 Q590 A4
Experience: 4 years zookeeping in Quarantine facility, animal shelters
Working on M.S. in Parasitology with several presentations/pubs, Intern for Parks & Wildlife State Fish Helath Inspector, Teach grad and ugrad Parasitology courses
Ethnicity: Native American, Irish
Schools: NCSU, UF, TAMU

Should I retake the GRE?
Be brutally honest...what are my chances?

 

[ReinaDeLuz]

Should I retake the GRE?
Be brutally honest...what are my chances?

Definitely retake the GRE, if you can.

No one can definitively say what your chances are, but things don't sound too bad for you really ;-) good luck!

 

[OceanAngel]

Schools: NCSU, UF, TAMU

Are you in-state at any of these schools, not that that is a guarantee, but at least it should help you out? Your GRE isn't horrible, but since your undergrad GPA was not stellar it wouldn't hurt to retake it. What is your required course GPA?
Have you done any small animal veterinary work aside from the shelters? I was having a hard time telling what time of animals you were working with. Have you done LA?
It sounds like you have some unique experiences which is always a plus.
This will increase your chances of standing out among so many similar applicants. Good luck!

 

[irish_pompano]

I'm in-state for TAMU. My prereq GPA is 2.8
My main reason for applying to vet school is so that I can work in fish health. I think this area is entirely underrepresented in the vet field, do you think this could help at all?
Thanks so much for responding!

 

[dvm'08]

I'm in-state for TAMU. My prereq GPA is 2.8
My main reason for applying to vet school is so that I can work in fish health. I think this area is entirely underrepresented in the vet field, do you think this could help at all?
Thanks so much for responding!

To be perfectly honest (and fair), with an over-all undergrad GPA of 2.6, and a pre-req GPA of 2.8, i would say that vet school is an unrealistic goal for you; regardless of your career intentions, or your extra-curricular experience.

I suspect lots of people here will tell you that you'll be able to overcome the odds, and that if you try enough times you'll get in - but I think that is false hope, and an extreme long shot, and ultimately doing you a disservice.

Sorry if my post isn't what you wanted to hear.

Good luck.

 

[julieDVM]

To be perfectly honest (and fair), with an over-all undergrad GPA of 2.6, and a pre-req GPA of 2.8, i would say that vet school is an unrealistic goal for you; regardless of your career intentions, or your extra-curricular experience.

I suspect lots of people here will tell you that you'll be able to overcome the odds, and that if you try enough times you'll get in - but I think that is false hope, and an extreme long shot, and ultimately doing you a disservice.

Sorry if my post isn't what you wanted to hear.

Good luck.

I think this is a fair assessment, and honest advice...

Irish, I've sat on an ADCOM for several cycles now, and unfortunately, your undergrad and Pre Req. GPA is not competitive. In many cases, applicants are granted interviews based on their numerical scores alone - ie: GPAs and GREs are tabulated into a common scale for each applicant, and they are then ranked from highest to lowest. A line is drawn across the page - those above the line get interviewed, and those below do not, and unfortunately, based on your GPA, you would not be in the interview pool.

My advice to you would be to seek an alternate career. Sorry I cannot be more encouraging.

JulieDVM

 

[doubled1st10]

I wouldnt seek an different career. I didnt even break 1000 on the GRE and I was accepted into 10 of the 12 schools I applied to. Your stats dont look to bad. I will look much better once you complete your MS. Sure your undergrad does not look great but they will see that you are serious by looking at your grad GPA. Just make sure you get some more experience, especially if you dont have much LA experience

 

[youthman]

Are you guys serious? His grad gpa is a 4.0, if he keeps that up and increases his GRE by at least 100 pts., why would he not stand a chance? If he applies to as many schools as possible, you don't think he would at least get 1 or 2 interviews?

 

[kate_g]

Sure your undergrad does not look great but they will see that you are serious by looking at your grad GPA.

Grad classes are often graded much more leniently than undergrad (the main point of grad school being research, nobody much cares about the classes). It's not really fair if you happen to have the rare grad program with hard classes, but that's the general assumption. Irish_pompano, yours is a *very* common question with respect to med school admission over on the nontrad forum, and the standard reply would be "register for some upper level bio courses at a 4-year university and get As, going full-time if possible." This both raises your undergrad GPA and shows you can do well in a full load of rigorous coursework. You wouldn't get "choose another career" but you would definitely get "it's going to take a couple years of damage control." Ultimately it should be worth a couple more years of coursework if you're really committed to the idea of being a vet.

I don't know if vet schools view undergrad/grad grades the same way as med schools, maybe Julie or someone else with adcom experience can offer insight.

FWIW some schools do have an optional "career diversity" essay or something similar in their application. These days the target areas seem to be research and poultry, but fisheries might still be a plus. But you'd probably have to make the GPA/GRE cutoff before anyone reads that essay.

And finally, just call the admissions offices at those 3 schools and ask how they view grad vs. undergrad grades, whether they have a minimum GPA requirement, and what you can do to make yourself more competitive. Their advice is more worth following than any of ours... 🙂

 

[irish_pompano]

Thanks, everyone...I knew it was coming, but I needed to hear it. I needed an honest, detached view. I'm still going to apply and see what happens.

Is it true that most ADCOMs read only the essays/experience of applicants who first meet the number criteria?

As far as the ugrad GPA, it's over and done with. Short of redoing my entire 4 years of ugrad, there's little I can do to fix it. Hopefully they will see the 4.0 grad GPA, research, and experience. 😳

 

[OceanAngel]

Thanks, everyone...I knew it was coming, but I needed to hear it. I needed an honest, detached view. I'm still going to apply and see what happens.

Is it true that most ADCOMs read only the essays/experience of applicants who first meet the number criteria?

As far as the ugrad GPA, it's over and done with. Short of redoing my entire 4 years of ugrad, there's little I can do to fix it. Hopefully they will see the 4.0 grad GPA, research, and experience. 😳

Sad, but true that ADCOMS often only read the essays of those who have met the intial screening, which unfortunately is mostly numbers (GRE,GPA, veterinary hours). If you don't get in this year definitely don't give up. Get more diversified experience and maybe retake an upper-level class or two that you did poorly in, and study hard for the GRE. A lot of schools have what they call alternative eligibility where applicants who don't meet their regular GPA and GRE cutoffs are still considered. In these cases unique career goals and experiences and also reasons for your less than stellar grades are taken into account.

 

[Jeff SGU]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to post yet another dreaded 'what are my chances'...but I would appreciate the help more than you can imagine.

My stats: ugrad GPA 2.6/grad GPA 4.0/GRE 1160 V570 Q590 A4
Experience: 4 years zookeeping in Quarantine facility, animal shelters
Working on M.S. in Parasitology with several presentations/pubs, Intern for Parks & Wildlife State Fish Helath Inspector, Teach grad and ugrad Parasitology courses
Ethnicity: Native American, Irish
Schools: NCSU, UF, TAMU

Should I retake the GRE?
Be brutally honest...what are my chances?

Each year Purdue publishes a book titled "Veterinary Medical School Admission Requirements" It lists all of the veterinary colleges along with how many applications they received, how many in state and out of state students they accepted, along with their average GPAs. If you read through the book you will quickly realize that the majority of the U.S. Schools receive so many applications it is difficult for them analyze each one individually. So as already stated in this thread, schools tend to sort the applications by GPA and GRE scores and go from there. Because of that, it may be difficult for you to get into a U.S. school.

That said, it is important to note that there are other alternatives available, so you should not give up hope. At St. George's University we are very good about looking at everyone's complete application. So getting a 4.0 in a graduate program is going to show the review board that you are capable of doing graduate level work.

Don't be afraid to think outside of the box and research all your options before you give up your lifelong dream.

Best wishes,

 

[tygris]

To be perfectly honest (and fair), with an over-all undergrad GPA of 2.6, and a pre-req GPA of 2.8, i would say that vet school is an unrealistic goal for you; regardless of your career intentions, or your extra-curricular experience.

I suspect lots of people here will tell you that you'll be able to overcome the odds, and that if you try enough times you'll get in - but I think that is false hope, and an extreme long shot, and ultimately doing you a disservice.

I think this is a fair assessment, and honest advice...

Irish, I've sat on an ADCOM for several cycles now, and unfortunately, your undergrad and Pre Req. GPA is not competitive. In many cases, applicants are granted interviews based on their numerical scores alone - ie: GPAs and GREs are tabulated into a common scale for each applicant, and they are then ranked from highest to lowest. A line is drawn across the page - those above the line get interviewed, and those below do not, and unfortunately, based on your GPA, you would not be in the interview pool.

Honestly, are you guys for real with this? This may be true for many schools (i.e. Cornell, Penn, Purdue, etc.) but this is certainly not the case for all.
This person has a 4.0 in grad work, which I realize isn't considered as heavily as undergrad work but many *many* schools appreciate upward trends... and that's a hell of an upward trend. Being a nay-sayer may have been logical without the M.S. work but it seems that this person is on his way to becoming a competitive applicant.
To be perfectly honest, it almost insults me that anyone would suggest that it is that hopeless for a person like this to get in. I had a 3.2 undergrad GPA, and just under a 3.0 prereq GPA, with high GRE scores and lots of varied experience, plus a 4.0 in my MS in Biology with research in cheetah reproductive endocrinology... and I got *three* offers, ALL of them out of state (since Cornell is my lovely state school and they couldn't care less about anything beyond my undergrad GPA). So I really don't want to hear that it's so impossible that someone should just give up.

With all that said, irish_pompano, do *not* think it is hopeless because there are *many* of us out there who were in your boat, myself included. However, DEFINITELY raise your GRE score as much as you possibly can. And don't waste your time and money applying to the schools that don't give a crap about anything but grades!! Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions because I was definitely in your boat. 🙂

 

[Bill59]

Since TAMU is your best shot of the schools you listed, go to their website and check our the requirements.

DVM Program Application

For example, to apply you need a minimum grade point ratio (GPR) of 2.90 overall or a 3.10 GPR for the last 45 semester hours completed. They will also have specific information on how the academic portion is scored for applicants and some statistics on last year’s class.

 

[irish_pompano]

Thanks for all the advice. Anyone else interested in fish health?

And since we're on the subject, can anyone recommend a good GRE review book (can't afford the classes at this point!)

 

[Truth74]

number2.com has one. It's connected with an SAT prep one, so watch out on those vocabulary words.

 

[2Bsure]

I have only skimmed through this thread, but I don't think the following question has been raised: In what type of graduate program are you enrolled? There are programs designed to boost the science qualification for students who hope to apply to medical related programs. Based on the overall science GPA you posted I am not sure this is the case, but if the graduate work you have completed is directly related to biology or chemistry prerequisites you have a slim, yet real, chance of being considered for interviews/admissions into school.

I'll also parrot what others have said-- the GRE is the most important component of an application that can be easily boosted, so take it again.

 

[irish_pompano]

Thanks, 2Bsure...I'm working on a Master's in Parasitology, my thesis is on the lifecycle of a parasitic nematode. I've taken courses like Path Micro and Immunology (A's) which are actually undergrad courses but they have a graduate section (so you get graduate credit).

I'm definitely taking the GRE again, how likely is it that I can raise my score by 140 pts to make it a 1300?

I really appreciate all the help from this forum!

 

[eaglemeag]

I don't have much of an opinion on whether you are a competitive candidate based on undergrad vs. graduate GPAs. However, I do want to suggest that you consider non-U.S. schools, especially those in the Caribbean such as Ross and SGU. They have a reputation for admitting students with less-than-stellar statistics while still having decent programs. (Not the best, but not bad programs either, and a DVM is a DVM no matter where it's from.)

As far as GRE study guides, I recommend The Princeton Review's GRE Prep and Word Smart for the GRE. The former gives you test-taking strategies and several practice tests. The latter is a collection of hundreds of words that have appeared repeatedly on tests in the past several years, as well as collections of prefixes and suffixes that are good to learn to help you do better. These two books are not overnight fixes, but if you spend 6 months or so with them you can definitely boost your score quite a good bit. I made a 700M and 570V, and my regret is not spending more time with the Word Smart book because it would've helped my score A LOT.

Shameless Self Promotion: I still have my copy of Word-Smart. If you think you'd like it, I'll sell it to you for very cheap. Let me know before Thursday and I'll be glad to pop it in the mail for you.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

 

[Bill59]

(Not the best, but not bad programs either, and a DVM is a DVM no matter where it's from.)

Actually, if you're going to practice in the US it does matter. Specifically, a degree from an AVMA-accredited school is different than a degree from a non-accredited school in regards to most state licenses.

I agree it's a viable option but just wanted to point this out in case anyone doesn't already realize this.

 

[ginkogirl]

As far as GRE study guides, I recommend The Princeton Review's GRE Prep and Word Smart for the GRE.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

I'll second the Princeton Review's book. I used "cracking the GRE" and "word smart." I just took the GRE yesterday and can assure you that memorizing the Princeton Review vocab is extremely helpful. Almost every verbal question had at least one of the vocab words. Also, when you buy this book (which is relatively inexpensive) you also get access to 4 online tests which are in a similar format to the computer based GRE test. Those helped me a lot. The first test I scored around 1200, but by the forth I was around 14-1500 and did similarly on the actual GRE. For 5ish dollars/test you could even get someone to grade/comment on your practice essays (although I personally wouldn't recommend this service, I was very dissappointed with it.)

Just my two cents. Best of luck in GRE studies!

Lisa

 

[eaglemeag]

Actually, if you're going to practice in the US it does matter. Specifically, a degree from an AVMA-accredited school is different than a degree from a non-accredited school in regards to most state licenses.

I agree it's a viable option but just wanted to point this out in case anyone doesn't already realize this.

This is true. However, Ross is accredited, isn't it? And I hear rumors that SGU is going up for accreditation this this year.

(Accreditation was the major reason for me turning down a spot at SGU when I was waitlisted elsewhere. I wish I had known this ahead of time. I would've applied to Ross instead.)

 

[UKYWildcat]

This is true. However, Ross is accredited, isn't it? And I hear rumors that SGU is going up for accreditation this this year.

(Accreditation was the major reason for me turning down a spot at SGU when I was waitlisted elsewhere. I wish I had known this ahead of time. I would've applied to Ross instead.)

No, Ross is not accredited. Both SGU and Ross are AVMA listed which allows graduates to take the ECFVG.

 

[Jeff SGU]

This is true. However, Ross is accredited, isn't it? And I hear rumors that SGU is going up for accreditation this this year.

(Accreditation was the major reason for me turning down a spot at SGU when I was waitlisted elsewhere. I wish I had known this ahead of time. I would've applied to Ross instead.)

St. George's is in the process of gaining full accreditation through the AVMA and have a site visit scheduled for late February of 2007.

Currently our graduates have to take one additional exam, either the ECFVG or the PAVE to be licensed in the United States. The State of New York is an exception where our graduates can go there and practice after they have passed the NAVLE without taking one of the additional exams. Our graduates have not had a problem with this process and have been very successful in finding employment.

It is also good to point out that students from both St. George's and Ross tend to get a lot more hands on experience in the first three years of their education than their U.S. counterparts and usually come out more clinically prepared.

St. George's has professors who either taught or are still currently teaching at Cornell, Auburn, Tuskegee, Texas A&M, NC State, and The Royal Veterinary College of London, just to name a few, so you know you are getting a comparable education to those who attend a U.S. school. And our graduates' first time pass rate on the NAVLE, which has been equal to or better than the U.S. average for all of our classes, backs us up on that.

Unfortunately there just isn't enough seats in the U.S. schools for everyone with the lifelong dream of becoming a veterinarian. Roughly 55% of students who apply each year get rejected. Many of those are very intelligent, caring, and well rounded individuals, who will eventually become great veterinarians. Some students who are not accepted right away spend a couple of extra years working on a Master's degree and then reapply. Others work on gaining more animal experience first then reapply, others simply give up their dream and look into other career paths. I just want to make sure everyone knows that there are other options out there if you can't get into a U.S. school, becuase it makes me go home at the end of the day feeling good, knowing I was a tiny bit of help, in helping a person achieve their life long dream.

 

[dvm'08]

Honestly, are you guys for real with this? This may be true for many schools (i.e. Cornell, Penn, Purdue, etc.) but this is certainly not the case for all.
This person has a 4.0 in grad work, which I realize isn't considered as heavily as undergrad work but many *many* schools appreciate upward trends... and that's a hell of an upward trend. Being a nay-sayer may have been logical without the M.S. work but it seems that this person is on his way to becoming a competitive applicant.
To be perfectly honest, it almost insults me that anyone would suggest that it is that hopeless for a person like this to get in. I had a 3.2 undergrad GPA, and just under a 3.0 prereq GPA, with high GRE scores and lots of varied experience, plus a 4.0 in my MS in Biology with research in cheetah reproductive endocrinology... and I got *three* offers, ALL of them out of state (since Cornell is my lovely state school and they couldn't care less about anything beyond my undergrad GPA). So I really don't want to hear that it's so impossible that someone should just give up.

With all that said, irish_pompano, do *not* think it is hopeless because there are *many* of us out there who were in your boat, myself included. However, DEFINITELY raise your GRE score as much as you possibly can. And don't waste your time and money applying to the schools that don't give a crap about anything but grades!! Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions because I was definitely in your boat. 🙂

You're insulted? I'm so shocked...........................

 

[tygris]

You're insulted? I'm so shocked...........................

Well first of all, I said I was *almost* insulted - in order to be insulted I'd have to care what random people on a forum I participate in think... which I generally don't 🙂
Secondly, I'm not quite sure I get what you're suggesting here. Have I been insulted with regularity on SDN forums? I don't recall expressing my feelings of being insulted very frequently, if at all, in the past.
If something I said offended you in some way, please accept my sincerest apologies, although I don't know why my comments would strike such a chord for you to respond so rudely and unconstructively. I simply put my thoughts into the thread as they applied to the topic at hand.
Regardless, it is still true that your previously posted discouraging words are worthy of an eye-roll.

 

[dvm'08]

Regardless, it is still true that your previously posted discouraging words are worthy of an eye-roll.

i'm not about to blow smoke up this persons ass. My remarks are absolutly justified, and quite frankly, show a great deal more realism than any of the other comments in this thread (yours included). Simply put - a 2.6 is just not good enough to get into vet school, regardless of your other qualifications. You could be the head tech at the AMC in NY, have a great GRE score, and you still wouldn't get in with a GPA of 2.6 - simple as that.

Why would you encourage this person to apply to vet school with grades like this? Irish needs to at least do an after degree to boost her pre-req GPA, (and overall undergrad GPA) in order to become competative (and she needs to get straight A's - not an easy thing to do).

Sure she may have a "shot" right now - but the bottom line is her grades are not competative. Period.

 

[tygris]

Why would you encourage this person to apply to vet school with grades like this? Irish needs to at least do an after degree to boost her pre-req GPA, (and overall undergrad GPA) in order to become competative (and she needs to get straight A's - not an easy thing to do).

Sure she may have a "shot" right now - but the bottom line is her grades are not competative. Period.

I just don't think it's all black and white like that. Yes, she will have an extremely hard time getting in, harder than most, but I just don't think it's hopeless - especially considering the 2.8 pre-req GPA - there are some who get in with pre-req GPAs that low. Plus, she *is* finishing a graduate degree, with a 4.0 to boot, and many schools I spoke to about my relatively low undergrad GPA said they prefer A's in grad programs over re-taking undergrad pre-reqs.

Admittedly, I read wrong the first time and thought her overall undergrad GPA was a 2.8, not a 2.6. But I still don't think it's hopeless, nor do I think it's blowing smoke up her ass to say "give it a shot."

The suggestion to investigate opportunities at Ross is a very good one, too. From what I understand, they are much more lenient on less-than-perfect undergrad GPA's than US schools are. So, Irish, the question is - is your goal to be a vet or to be a vet from a US school? 🙂 If it is to be a vet, you should definitely consider Ross and other international programs, but (in my opinion) you should not give up hope for a US school if that is your ultimate goal. dvm'08 is right though, that taking classes and getting good grades in them now is extremely crucial.

 

[irish_pompano]

Ok guys, here is my plan of attack:

Continue the apps for this cycle (with a higher GRE score in Sept.)
Finish my M.S. with a 4.0
Retake the chem prereqs (gen chem and o chem)
apply again if needed.

Sound good? Other than my grades and current GRE, I think I am pretty competitive. ARRRRGH the numbers!!! Thanks to all who offered their opinions. Positive or negative, they have given me more insight than I could have even hoped for!

 

[tygris]

Ok guys, here is my plan of attack:

Continue the apps for this cycle (with a higher GRE score in Sept.)
Finish my M.S. with a 4.0
Retake the chem prereqs (gen chem and o chem)
apply again if needed.

Sound good? Other than my grades and current GRE, I think I am pretty competitive. ARRRRGH the numbers!!! Thanks to all who offered their opinions. Positive or negative, they have given me more insight than I could have even hoped for!

Well I would hesitate a bit to say "competitive," but I think you have a shot if you really shine in all aspects beyond your undergrad GPA 🙂
Sounds good about retaking chem prereqs, I sucked at chem... and hated it! Seriously... my chem grades were horrible. I didn't bother retaking them though haha... but in retrospect perhaps I should have, maybe Cornell wouldn't have snubbed me if I had 😉
You should definitely apply to Ross, though!

 

[thelonius]

You're insulted? I'm so shocked...........................

I don't know about you, Irish, but I tend to become more motivated when others tell me that my goals are unrealistic. There is a way to do it, you'll just have to figure out how. Don't let ONE adcom member from ONE university discourage you. Retake some upper level classes and get all A's, get a really high GRE score, whatever. If you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT IT you can do it. An uphill battle, yes. Impossible as others on this site have implied, no.

How bad do you want it??? Best of luck.