AMC lesson learned

[anes121508]

Hey OP, any updates about this AMC issue?? I still can't believe docs got fired from your group to save money, but I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone these days. Academics has its issues but there's something to be said about job security..

No, just waiting to see what happens between hospital and amc. And waiting to see if the AMC is really going to fire 3 more.

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[anes121508]

Anyone know what happens when hospital fires the amc?

If hospital fires amc, I can’t imagine the amc is just nice and let’s us out of the non compete. I’m assuming we , as employees, are their leverage and they keep us from working there if they need to.

 

[Pharmado]

Anyone know what happens when hospital fires the amc?

If hospital fires amc, I can’t imagine the amc is just nice and let’s us out of the non compete. I’m assuming we , as employees, are their leverage and they keep us from working there if they need to.

Pretty much. They typically threaten lawsuits against everyone and force the entire group to be replaced. That way they make it as hard as possible for anyone to take over.

 

[IMGASMD]

Pretty much. They typically threaten lawsuits against everyone and force the entire group to be replaced. That way they make it as hard as possible for anyone to take over.

Isn’t that what happened in NC? Mednax made a big stink.... but still left....

Biggest loser, probably the patients.

 

[DrZzZz]

Isn’t that what happened in NC? Mednax made a big stink.... but still left....

Biggest loser, probably the patients.

A lot depends on the language in the contract and how the relationship with the hospital ends. If the hospital decides to just not renew an expiring contract with the AMC, it'd be hard for them to enforce a non-compete in most situations. But if a contract is voided (rather than expiring), good luck. The Charlotte and Greensboro situations suggest that, based on how they each turned out differently for the docs involved.

 

[gasdoc77]

A lot depends on the language in the contract and how the relationship with the hospital ends. If the hospital decides to just not renew an expiring contract with the AMC, it'd be hard for them to enforce a non-compete in most situations. But if a contract is voided (rather than expiring), good luck. The Charlotte and Greensboro situations suggest that, based on how they each turned out differently for the docs involved.

All hospital administrators should take note. If you are even remotely entertaining an AMC, you should INSIST upon the name of hospital system(s) who they have ended relationships with to see how they conducted themselves and what kind of mess they may have left behind. It is just like a job interview after all.

 

[nimbus]

Isn’t that what happened in NC? Mednax made a big stink.... but still left....

Biggest loser, probably the patients.

I’d argue the biggest losers were the Mednax doctors who lost their jobs. Most of the patients probably didn’t notice anything.

 

[IMGASMD]

I’d argue the biggest losers were the Mednax doctors who lost their jobs. Most of the patients probably didn’t notice anything.

Was Mednax running 1:4 all the time? I heard Scope didn’t have enough doctors, so I assume they’re running 1:4. I also heard that they had to hire lots of locum. Because they were short.

1:4 can be tough, especially for a new formed group/company. On top of that running with locum doctors.

They (partners) sold to Mednax and somehow Mednax lost the contract. They (employees) lost their jobs? Isn’t that how corporate America work?

I also heard Mednax “took care” of them.... but I certainly takes that with a grain of salt.

But now you have patients who didn’t have any choices now subject themselves with 1:4 Coverage, all day every day with a group of hired gun.

 

[anes121508]

Pretty much. They typically threaten lawsuits against everyone and force the entire group to be replaced. That way they make it as hard as possible for anyone to take over.

Yes, but does it actually happen? I only know of the Mednax thing I’m Charlotte.

Has anyone ever been employed by the amc, amc contract does not get renewed, amc allows employees
To stay under hospital/new amc/new pp?

 

[sevoflurane]

I’d argue the biggest losers were the Mednax doctors who lost their jobs. Most of the patients probably didn’t notice anything.

absolutley

 

[DrZzZz]

Yes, but does it actually happen? I only know of the Mednax thing I’m Charlotte.

Has anyone ever been employed by the amc, amc contract does not get renewed, amc allows employees
To stay under hospital/new amc/new pp?

Depends on what you mean by "allows". There's a good likelihood they will try to enforce any non-compete in the contract through legal means, but it may or may not be enforceable. And I'd imagine in certain situations, they would rather just cut their losses. But I don't know of any situations that demonstrate the latter.

 

[anes121508]

Depends on what you mean by "allows". There's a good likelihood they will try to enforce any non-compete in the contract through legal means, but it may or may not be enforceable. And I'd imagine in certain situations, they would rather just cut their losses. But I don't know of any situations that demonstrate the latter.

By allows, I mean just let’s everyone off the hook without pursuing legal action or threats of legal action.

 

[Pharmado]

The group I’m joining in Minneapolis was formed to take over for an AMC contract that was put up for bidding because the AMC that the previous group sold out to did a poor job. The group is being filled with outside people since the AMC is enforcing their non-compete and forcing all the docs to take jobs elsewhere.

 

[anes121508]

The group I’m joining in Minneapolis was formed to take over for an AMC contract that was put up for bidding because the AMC that the previous group sold out to did a poor job. The group is being filled with outside people since the AMC is enforcing their non-compete and forcing all the docs to take jobs elsewhere.

What amc?

 

[Pharmado]

Mednax

 

[Consigliere]

Hey OP, any updates about this AMC issue?? I still can't believe docs got fired from your group to save money, but I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone these days. Academics has its issues but there's something to be said about job security..

There wasn't an emoticon to adequately express my degree of surprise and disbelief. I'm dumfounded. I'm befuddled. I'm incredulous. Dude, this happens every day in the world of anesthesia.

 

[anes121508]

There wasn't an emoticon to adequately express my degree of surprise and disbelief. I'm dumfounded. I'm befuddled. I'm incredulous. Dude, this happens every day in the world of anesthesia.

Agree. I think that’s the point of the thread too. The AMC is about profit. The hospital admin and docs signing up need to at least be realistic in their expectations and not buy the load of horsesh””” like me.

 

[dannyboy1]

Agree. I think that’s the point of the thread too. The AMC is about profit. The hospital admin and docs signing up need to at least be realistic in their expectations and not buy the load of horsesh””” like me.

Everyone is about profit. I’m certainly not here at work volunteering my time.....

 

[KetamineIsAHellofaDrug]

There wasn't an emoticon to adequately express my degree of surprise and disbelief. I'm dumfounded. I'm befuddled. I'm incredulous. Dude, this happens every day in the world of anesthesia.

Forgive me father for I have sinned...
Relax bro...


So OP, are you just hoping your AMC gets kicked out so that you can stay at your hospital? Or is this actually happening?
You might be careful what you wish for... hospital could just make you all employees which (gasp) might even be worse than an AMC. that's the end game for private practice eventually

 

[Consigliere]

Forgive me father for I have sinned...

Sorry but I cannot for that degree of naivete is unforgiveable.

Relax bro...

No need as I have already attained the acme of chillness. And my father and your father are not the same person.

 

[anes121508]

Forgive me father for I have sinned...
Relax bro...


So OP, are you just hoping your AMC gets kicked out so that you can stay at your hospital? Or is this actually happening?
You might be careful what you wish for... hospital could just make you all employees which (gasp) might even be worse than an AMC. that's the end game for private practice eventually

Not really sure what to hope for. I think it’s bad either way. Amc gets kicked out and although they say we can stay, I’m sure they will enforce the non compete. Even if we do stay, being owned by the hospital admin here is not the greatest. If we are allowed to reform a private group, we would really have to evaluate if it’s a profitable operation as is. Coverage demands by the hospital and unprofitable sites with poor volumes and inefficient schedules are probably a huge challenge. I’d rather do it without amc taking off the top though.

 

[anes121508]

Everyone is about profit. I’m certainly not here at work volunteering my time.....

Completely different when the person making decisions for increasing profits is the one doing the work.

Decrease everyone’s salary? Yes
Cut all the crna retirement contributions? Yes
understaff the place and make everyone take more call and work later? Yes

The list is endless and it’s totally different situation when amc is making the rules and the profits.

I’m sure you would have a threshold that is lower than the private equity firm when it comes to pushing quality of patient care / safety and your own license for the sake of profit. Cover 10:1 for more profits? Yes of course if you are the private equity guys.

 

[AdmiralChz]

They (partners) sold to Mednax and somehow Mednax lost the contract. They (employees) lost their jobs? Isn’t that how corporate America work?

It’s pretty well documented how they Lost the contract. Mednax is the poster child for out of network gouging and patients were getting annihilated with ridiculous bills - most fascinating was most of the docs on the ground had no idea. Atrium asked them to knock it off, which they didn’t. They also asked them to cover more locations since they were getting a healthy subsidy from the hospital - again, declined. The anesthesia group was very unpopular there and unfortunately, they called Atrium’s bluff that they’d go in a different direction and totally lost.

I also heard Mednax “took care” of them.... but I certainly takes that with a grain of salt.

I haven’t heard this at all, in fact I have some friends there that were SOL. Some got to stay on at other Mednax sites in the area but many had to leave as they were expressly forbidden to stay on with Scope.

The only folks who probably got “taken care of” were the selling partners at the outset. They weren’t going to get a double payment.

 

[IMGASMD]

I can play all sides too.

For old partners: good for you, made a great deal and cashed out.

Mednax: they are a FOR profit company, their one and only one objective IS to make money. So they did good.

AMC employees: they are employees after all. They work for the company, and they knew this before they signed up. You can argue that they cannot move due to various reasons. When you’re employees, you serve at the pleasure of your contract and company. My SO cannot find a job, we either move or concede to a pay cut for another company. It’s not their company.

Hospital: they want to make a profit too. They are a bigger institution that want to stay in the community.

Patients: they can go somewhere else for care, right?

How did I do?

 

[nimbus]

Sounds like a familiar PE playbook. “Let’s spend a lot of money to buy a successful business and then destroy it.”

After Deadspin

With the media industry in decline, we can only expect more of the same from the chuckleheads in the corporate class.

www.google.com

The Adults In The Room

There is a version of the story of this company in which idealistic journalists, unconcerned with profit, are posed against ruthless business-doers, concerned about profit above all else. That would be a convenient story, pitching me and my colleagues and friends as people who just care too much...

theconcourse.deadspin.com

 

[Neopolymath]

Sounds like a familiar PE playbook. “Let’s spend a lot of money to buy a successful business and then destroy it.”

After Deadspin

With the media industry in decline, we can only expect more of the same from the chuckleheads in the corporate class.

www.google.com

The Adults In The Room

There is a version of the story of this company in which idealistic journalists, unconcerned with profit, are posed against ruthless business-doers, concerned about profit above all else. That would be a convenient story, pitching me and my colleagues and friends as people who just care too much...

theconcourse.deadspin.com

I always knew you were a Deadspin reader. RIP

 

[Notascab]

I can play all sides too.

For old partners: good for you, made a great deal and cashed out.

Mednax: they are a FOR profit company, their one and only one objective IS to make money. So they did good.

AMC employees: they are employees after all. They work for the company, and they knew this before they signed up. You can argue that they cannot move due to various reasons. When you’re employees, you serve at the pleasure of your contract and company. My SO cannot find a job, we either move or concede to a pay cut for another company. It’s not their company.

Hospital: they want to make a profit too. They are a bigger institution that want to stay in the community.

Patients: they can go somewhere else for care, right?

How did I do?

Couple of minor issues with the "employees" should expect this... try this conversation.....Senior partner of Southeast Anesthesia Oct 2007......we are being sold to a Fortune 500 company and it will be a "win-win" for everyone. "We have a new contract for you to sign and you have 24 hours to sign it or you are no longer working for us". On the other hand Atrium claims publicly to have saved $19 million with their "new" anesthesia group( Charlotte Observer) and yet if you look deeply at their financials they report 3.9% increase in expenses ($24 million) largely due to new anesthesia providers and clinical engineering Page 2 second paragraph.... Again only losers are patients and providers