Any Hopes for MD before Deciding OD?

[pengwum]

Hey, I'm currently a senior in high school and interested in a career in either optometry or general medicine. (I might even just combine my two loves and try for ophthalmology, but that decision's a long way off!)
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone else here was in the same position as me between MD and OD. I'm really 40/60 (MD/OD) between the two, but my mom won't let me think about OD until I at least take the MCAT and fail out or something. She sees optometry as a second choice only if I'm not accepted into any medical school. Since I don't really have the experience (or money) to go against her views, I've decided to try medicine first and then optometry if that doesn't work out.
Has anyone else here done the same thing, or have you all known you'd be optometrists since you were like 5 years old? If you have, do you have any advice for someone who is going to be taking the MCAT and OAT's in the next few years? I know that the subjects tested seem similar, but how difficult are the questions between the two tests? Is the OAT easier than the MCAT? Should I prepare differently for each, or simply take all the required courses in college and hope for the best?
Sorry in advance if this topic has been posted before. This is my first post on SDN, but I did read through the first page of this forum to check if there were similar topics on this subject.

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[hfpepperbean47]

You're in high school. Why do you need to decide now? Sometimes these decisions play themselves out.

I was more the MD route over the OD route when I graduated high school. Even through the first few years of college I was more MD leaning. I still didn't know after 4 1/2 years of undergrad...so it took two years doing research at johns hopkins to realize which path I wanted to take. I chose OD school and haven't regretted it a minute.

Your parent's wishes should never supercede what you want. In the end you only answer to yourself.

 

[ODduck]

When I was a senior in HS, I wanted to be a HS history teacher and basketball coach...

Let your first 2-3 years of college play out before you make any kind of decision...

You will be AMAZED at how different a person you are in a few years.

 

[rpames]

First, BREATH!

You won't be taking the MCAT or OAT for 3 years. The needed courses are the same so just go to college and think about it. I would recommend you spend sometime working for an MD and an OD. I did that and it really helped me out. I'm an OD now and really like it.

I strongly recommend you get a minor in business though. If you go into either profession, or anything. A background in business is very valuable. If you don't get one, you will regret it.

 

[mupreopt]

Take a year off high school and shadow and do some online research on each career.
I was sure I wanted to be an architect but after taking break for one year after high school, I chose optometry.

optometry = no surgery
opthalmology (sp?) = surgery

 

[FL Opt Girl]

Hi there! I also thought about med school before deciding on optometry. I am confident that I probably could have been accepted to med school because of my GPA and other extra-curriculars. However, I think the big thing you have to decide on is whether you can realistically imagine yourself in an environment in which you are on-call all the time and are dealing with life or death situations. I am not someone who would enjoy performing surgeries, yet I knew I wanted to devote my life to studying the eye and vision, so that's why I decided on optometry and not ophthamology. I also wanted to make sure that my career did not become my life. I want to have time for other things and not be thinking about work 24/7.

 

[eyestrain]

Take a year off high school and shadow and do some online research on each career.

Take a year off high school? What? Do you mean AFTER high school? Even that would be stupid.

 

[KHE]

Hey, I'm currently a senior in high school and interested in a career in either optometry or general medicine. (I might even just combine my two loves and try for ophthalmology, but that decision's a long way off!)
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone else here was in the same position as me between MD and OD. I'm really 40/60 (MD/OD) between the two, but my mom won't let me think about OD until I at least take the MCAT and fail out or something. She sees optometry as a second choice only if I'm not accepted into any medical school. Since I don't really have the experience (or money) to go against her views, I've decided to try medicine first and then optometry if that doesn't work out.
Has anyone else here done the same thing, or have you all known you'd be optometrists since you were like 5 years old? If you have, do you have any advice for someone who is going to be taking the MCAT and OAT's in the next few years? I know that the subjects tested seem similar, but how difficult are the questions between the two tests? Is the OAT easier than the MCAT? Should I prepare differently for each, or simply take all the required courses in college and hope for the best?
Sorry in advance if this topic has been posted before. This is my first post on SDN, but I did read through the first page of this forum to check if there were similar topics on this subject.

I decided I wanted to be an optometrist when I was 15....let me make a couple of suggestions here because you are making two gigantic mistakes:

1) Worrying about what your mother wants you to do is going to be a big problem. This is your life, and your future. The sooner you cut the apron strings, the better of you will be. If it means taking out loans, then so be it, but pursuing a career because you want to impress your mom is almost certainly a recipe for an unhappy career.

2) The second mistake is that you are using the same mode of thinking that many pre-health students use....that is...."I want to be a doctor of some kind, but I'm not sure I can get into, or will like medical school so being an optometrist is good enough." Again....a recipe for an unhappy career. You have to be absolutely sure you want to be an optometrist before you enter school. Doing it because it's "good enough" is going to all but guarantee you a career of misery.

If you are in high school, what you should be concentrating on is doing as well as you can in your senior year, getting into a good college or university that will be a good for YOU (not your mother) and then just working on your first couple of years of undergraduate work. Allow yourself the time to explore other options and subject matter. Then start worrying about MCATS and OAT tests.

First on foremost, get over your mother. That's going to help you in so many other areas aside from your career prospects.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

1) Worrying about what your mother wants you to do is going to be a big problem. This is your life, and your future. The sooner you cut the apron strings, the better of you will be. If it means taking out loans, then so be it, but pursuing a career because you want to impress your mom is almost certainly a recipe for an unhappy career.

Ditto. Making decisions to please your parents (or really anyone other than yourself) is a sure fire way to be miserable.

 

[mupreopt]

Take a year off high school? What? Do you mean AFTER high school? Even that would be stupid.

Yes, I meant after high school.
It is a great idea if you make sure you will go to college after a year.
It is not uncommon for people to do this. It is great to refresh you mind after many years of school.
For me, it was one of the best things I did. And I did not loose sight of college because throughout my life, I did not consider college an option. To me, it was more of a requirement like primary and secondary school.
If I did not take a year off, I would have went into the wrong career field.

 

[eyestrain]

Yes, I meant after high school.
It is a great idea if you make sure you will go to college after a year.
It is not uncommon for people to do this. It is great to refresh you mind after many years of school.
For me, it was one of the best things I did. And I did not loose sight of college because throughout my life, I did not consider college an option. To me, it was more of a requirement like primary and secondary school.
If I did not take a year off, I would have went into the wrong career field.

I still don't get this at all. Seems like you'd just end up wasting a year. Why not just go to college and get a bunch of prereqs out of the way and figure out what you want to do with your life while you're there?

 

[mupreopt]

I still don't get this at all. Seems like you'd just end up wasting a year. Why not just go to college and get a bunch of prereqs out of the way and figure out what you want to do with your life while you're there?

To refresh my mind. I mean, at the time, I would be going to college for the next 4 years and then start a career. There is really going to be another time to have a big break until I retire.

 

[qwopty99]

the two careers are pretty different in terms of lifestyle, responsibility, and salary.

i'll just mention that MCAT is about 10X as hard as the OAT.

 

[IndianaOD]

the two careers are pretty different in terms of lifestyle, responsibility, and salary.

i'll just mention that MCAT is about 10X as hard as the OAT.

Huh? Doesn't matter how hard it is even if you did have a way to judge. Just matters how you did compared to the other candidates.

I had a couple med students in my class who switched to Optometry. They stated optometry school was no easier and 1 had taken USMLE1 and said part one of the opt boards was harder. What does that mean? Nothing...exactly.

 

[jefguth]

the two careers are pretty different in terms of lifestyle, responsibility, and salary.

i'll just mention that MCAT is about 10X as hard as the OAT.

Either way, plenty of med schools are easy enough to get into (at least in the states). Doesn't matter how hard the entrance test is, just how well you do compared to the competition...

 

[mupreopt]

They stated optometry school was no easier and 1 had taken USMLE1 and said part one of the opt boards was harder. What does that mean? Nothing...exactly.

What are you trying to say?

 

[hfpepperbean47]

the two careers are pretty different in terms of lifestyle, responsibility, and salary.

i'll just mention that MCAT is about 10X as hard as the OAT.

That is quite an exaggeration.

 

[qwopty99]

compared to the MCAT, u cannot by any stretch of the imagination describe the OAT as being "hard".


>Huh? Doesn't matter how hard it is even if you did have a way to judge. Just matters how you did compared to the other candidates.

people who write the MCAT are on the whole better students and go in with better preparation than those who write the OAT.

what do u need to be competitive for optom school? realistically, a 300 (average score) will leave u in the running with quite a few schools. if NEWENCO's avg is like 310, it suggests heavily that there are 300s who get in.

its said u need a 30 to have a reasonable shot into med school. a 30 is an 82nd percentile. 82nd percentile on an exam where the students are overall, more stronger and more prepared (yes they are more prepared - limited "evidence" would be to look at the difference in study materials of Kaplan/Princeton between the two tests - yes it's not a strong argument, but it is telling).

with the same preparation it takes to get a 30 on the MCAT, u can score in the 99.3-100.0 percentile range on the OAT (i.e. a perfect score in total science). i.e, a 1/5 performance on the MCAT can get u a 7/1000 performance on the OAT.

finally, from personal experience, i believe the MCAT is basically 10X more difficult an exam.

when it comes down to it, sorry if people's feelings here get hurt, but the OAT is a joke.

 

[Jay12]

compared to the MCAT, u cannot by any stretch of the imagination describe the OAT as being "hard".


>Huh? Doesn't matter how hard it is even if you did have a way to judge. Just matters how you did compared to the other candidates.

people who write the MCAT are on the whole better students and go in with better preparation than those who write the OAT.

what do u need to be competitive for optom school? realistically, a 300 (average score) will leave u in the running with quite a few schools. if NEWENCO's avg is like 310, it suggests heavily that there are 300s who get in.

its said u need a 30 to have a reasonable shot into med school. a 30 is an 82nd percentile. 82nd percentile on an exam where the students are overall, more stronger and more prepared (yes they are more prepared - limited "evidence" would be to look at the difference in study materials of Kaplan/Princeton between the two tests - yes it's not a strong argument, but it is telling).

with the same preparation it takes to get a 30 on the MCAT, u can score in the 99.3-100.0 percentile range on the OAT (i.e. a perfect score in total science). i.e, a 1/5 performance on the MCAT can get u a 7/1000 performance on the OAT.

finally, from personal experience, i believe the MCAT is basically 10X more difficult an exam.

when it comes down to it, sorry if people's feelings here get hurt, but the OAT is a joke.

Well, I do believe you are entitled to your own opinions, as is everyone on this forum....but the only thing that kind of bugged me was when you stated "people who write the MCAT are on the whole better students"...I think that might be kind of pushing it a little...since you cannot generalize on my behalf, or all other optometry or pre-optometry students, being inferior to students who write the MCAT......so your going to get a from me....

 

[eyestrain]

Well, I do believe you are entitled to your own opinions, as is everyone on this forum....but the only thing that kind of bugged me was when you stated "people who write the MCAT are on the whole better students"...I think that might be kind of pushing it a little...since you cannot generalize on my behalf, or all other optometry or pre-optometry students, being inferior to students who write the MCAT......so your going to get a from me....

I hate doing this MD vs OD crap, but I think it's probably safe to say that the average MCAT test taker is smarter than the average OAT taker. I, of course, have no way to back this up other than using common sense (which has not always been fail-proof).

 

[Jay12]

I hate doing this MD vs OD crap, but I think it's probably safe to say that the average MCAT test taker is smarter than the average OAT taker. I, of course, have no way to back this up other than using common sense (which has not always been fail-proof).

I personally don't believe your right in generalizing an entire population of MCAT test takers being smarter than OAT test takers......
I do believe that the MCAT may be harder than the OAT, in the sense that it may take greater preparation (i.e. level of difficulty of questions being presented) and the number of questions being tested upon........but now were just comparing the level of difficulty of the exam, and not the exam takers per say.

 

[qwopty99]

can we compare the GPAs of students who write the exams?

unfortunately we cannot because i don't think such information is obtainable.

the next best thing is to compare the GPAs of matriculated students. while this constitutes some numbers, it is of course far from fool-proof.


anecdotally, it does not seem that the most outstanding science undergrads strive for or end up in optometry school. it seems that most of them plan for and/or end up in med. yes, more students study med, but the ratio of outstanding students in med still seems (much?) higher than in opt. in opt, the most distinguished person would be someone who managed to get a 4.0 in undergrad. in med, u will literally come across your concert violinist, national ballerina, olympic athlete, IOI/IMO/IPO/ICO medal recipient, who also managed to get a 4.0.

from a personal vantage point, i don't think its even close. in all the grades above and below me, i don't know anyone who was particularly distinguished at anything in the school i was at (a top ranked school in opt). in the local medical school class of my graduating year, i can identify several folks who were distinguished internationally in various areas.

sure, u can't compare the "average student body" of two programs based on a select few, but quality exists on a continuum, and there is no intuitive reason why there would be a significant break in caliber between those at the top of the class and those ranked right underneath them.

 

[KHE]

can we compare the GPAs of students who write the exams?

unfortunately we cannot because i don't think such information is obtainable.

the next best thing is to compare the GPAs of matriculated students. while this constitutes some numbers, it is of course far from fool-proof.
.

God Almighty in Heaven, WHY does this issue keep coming up?

Here's what it ALL boils down to right now guys....

The top third of students in optometry school would be competitive at most, if not all medical schools.

The middle third of students in optometry school would be competitive at many medical schools.

The bottom third of students in optometry school would be competitive at few, if any medical schools.

Can we PLEASE let this issue go now?

 

[pengwum]

Hey thanks for all the info and advice, guys! I didn't mean to start an MD vs OD war, but I suppose this is pretty common on such a forum!
I most definitely will not jump into a career just to please my mother, so don't worry about that, haha.
And I do plan to go to college directly after high school. Not simply because it's the traditional way to go, but the program I've been accepted into offers a wide range of volunteering, shadowing, and research opportunities for students interested in a career in health care that I couldn't possibly manage on my own.
I suppose I'll have a much better idea of where I want to be a year from now, but it doesn't hurt to stay prepared!
Another question I've been wondering about is what the acceptance rates are for optometry schools. I know that about half of all medical students don't get accepted by any of the schools they apply to, but I haven't seen any statistics for optometry students. Any info on these statistics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
PS: I know that medical schools don't really care where you complete your undergraduate studies, but is this also true for optometry schools? Medical schools care most about your MCAT scores and GPA. Is this true for optometry schools as well? I ask this because I'm considering attending a university that isn't exactly an Ivy-Leaguer, but its health science programs are wonderful, and the scholarships I've been offered would greatly reduce my tuition costs. I just don't want this to hurt me in the long run. So do optometry schools place greater importance on prestigious colleges?

 

[IndianaOD]

.....at this point in the worthless conversation I mention how many 4.0 undergrads were in my optometry class, myself graduating #1 in my pre med class.. and on and on.


Folks let it rest, if you really want an MD/DO you can find a school that will let you in as easily as the optometry schools.

 

[qwopty99]

God Almighty in Heaven, WHY does this issue keep coming up?

dunno. in the past i never really expressed my views so that's why i posted yesterday. and also, we don't all agree on the answer.

The top third of students in optometry school would be competitive at most, if not all medical schools.

The middle third of students in optometry school would be competitive at many medical schools.

The bottom third of students in optometry school would be competitive at few, if any medical schools.

this is a good rule-of-thumb, but i'd say it's too favorable to optom students.

there are 125 allopathic schools of medicine and 16 optom schools. let's make two hypothetical schools, the:
1) united states of america medical school (USAMS)
2) united states of america optometry school (USAOS)

to create the student body of USAMS, we will randomly select one student from each medical school in the US to compose it. that gives us a class of 125 students.

there are only 16 optom schools in the US. 16 x 8 gives us 128 which is close to 125. thus, to create the student body of USAOS, we will randomly select 6 students from each optom school to compose it. lets pretend we have exactly 125 students here, just like the allopathic school to simplify things.

so 125 med students that represent the "average" of what is found in US medical schools. we also have 125 opt students that represent the "average" of what is found in US opt schools.

i contend the med school class is stronger.

in the med school class, u will have a student who got into
Harvard MS
Johns Hopkins MS
Yale MS
Colubmia MS
Cornell MS
UCSF MS
Duke MS
Chicago MS
etc.

i don't believe that in our representative opt pool of 125 students, that we will have students of the caliber that would, 1-on-1, compare with the students in the med school class.

let's say the "top 6" students coming out of Berkeley are all really strong. but would an "average selection" of UCB students really identify a Harvard MS student, a Yale MS student, a Columbia MS student, Cornell, UCSF, Duke? i doubt it.

the two groups are different populations.

 

[IndianaOD]

dunno. in the past i never really expressed my views so that's why i posted yesterday. and also, we don't all agree on the answer.



this is a good rule-of-thumb, but i'd say it's too favorable to optom students.

there are 125 allopathic schools of medicine and 16 optom schools. let's make two hypothetical schools, the:
1) united states of america medical school (USAMS)
2) united states of america optometry school (USAOS)

to create the student body of USAMS, we will randomly select one student from each medical school in the US to compose it. that gives us a class of 125 students.

there are only 16 optom schools in the US. 16 x 8 gives us 128 which is close to 125. thus, to create the student body of USAOS, we will randomly select 6 students from each optom school to compose it. lets pretend we have exactly 125 students here, just like the allopathic school to simplify things.

so 125 med students that represent the "average" of what is found in US medical schools. we also have 125 opt students that represent the "average" of what is found in US opt schools.

i contend the med school class is stronger.

in the med school class, u will have a student who got into
Harvard MS
Johns Hopkins MS
Yale MS
Colubmia MS
Cornell MS
UCSF MS
Duke MS
Chicago MS
etc.

i don't believe that in our representative opt pool of 125 students, that we will have students of the caliber that would, 1-on-1, compare with the students in the med school class.

let's say the "top 6" students coming out of Berkeley are all really strong. but would an "average selection" of UCB students really identify a Harvard MS student, a Yale MS student, a Columbia MS student, Cornell, UCSF, Duke? i doubt it.

the two groups are different populations.

Doesn't matter, all that matters is what the easiest school to get into is with the lowest scores.

 

[Caffeinated]

To the OP:

As a senior in high school, don't feel too much pressure to make a decision about your career right now. You have plenty of time before you need to start thinking about admission tests, applications, recommendation letters, etc. Focus your energy right now on finding an undergraduate school where you will thrive both personally and academically. Also, keep in mind that you might change your mind about your career several times, which means that you might be changing your major. I suggest you consider an undergraduate school that has a broad spectrum of majors. If you plan on financing your undergraduate education yourself, then affordable tuition should also be on your priority list. If possible, you should avoid accumulating a huge debt burden from your undergrad years. Don't forget to take time to enjoy being a senior in high school. And when you get to college, take the time to make the friendships and memories that will last for the rest of your life.

With regard to your parents, I agree with the idea that you should not choose or disregard any career path simply to please your parents. However, at the same time don't ignore their message simply for the sake of "cutting the apron strings." Your parents have more life experience than you, they care about you, and they want what is best for you. Ignoring their wisdom and experience simply because they are your parents is not the key to becoming a happy and successful adult. Over the next few years, you will probably meet a lot of friends and mentors whose advice you will rely upon to help you find your career path. Ultimately, you have to find your own way. But you owe it to yourself to at least consider the advice of those who know you well and care about you, including your parents.

Caff

 

[mupreopt]

Don't let your anyone choose your career.
I was just told by my younger sister a few days ago that one of her friends is majoring in history. She wants to go into anthropology but her parents threatened to kick her out of the house if she did so.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

The MCAT is tougher than the OAT but not by that much. Lol

compared to the MCAT, u cannot by any stretch of the imagination describe the OAT as being "hard".


>Huh? Doesn't matter how hard it is even if you did have a way to judge. Just matters how you did compared to the other candidates.

people who write the MCAT are on the whole better students and go in with better preparation than those who write the OAT.

what do u need to be competitive for optom school? realistically, a 300 (average score) will leave u in the running with quite a few schools. if NEWENCO's avg is like 310, it suggests heavily that there are 300s who get in.

its said u need a 30 to have a reasonable shot into med school. a 30 is an 82nd percentile. 82nd percentile on an exam where the students are overall, more stronger and more prepared (yes they are more prepared - limited "evidence" would be to look at the difference in study materials of Kaplan/Princeton between the two tests - yes it's not a strong argument, but it is telling).

with the same preparation it takes to get a 30 on the MCAT, u can score in the 99.3-100.0 percentile range on the OAT (i.e. a perfect score in total science). i.e, a 1/5 performance on the MCAT can get u a 7/1000 performance on the OAT.

finally, from personal experience, i believe the MCAT is basically 10X more difficult an exam.

when it comes down to it, sorry if people's feelings here get hurt, but the OAT is a joke.

 

[Oculomotor]

qwopty99,

You really need a reality check. MCAT's 10x as hard as OAT's? You are living in a fantasy land.

I took both the MCAT and the OAT in the same test year and my MCAT scores were better! lol

My MCAT average (33)

• allopathic medical school matriculant average = (30.8 for 2007)
• allopathic medical school applicant average = (27.8 for 2007)
• Average matriculant GPA = 3.65

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/2007mcatgpa.htm

• osteopathic matriculant average average = (24.9 for 2005)
• osteopathic matriculant GPA = 3.44

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/cib2008.pdf

• optometry school matriculant GPA = 3.43
• optometry school OAT matriculant average = 333 (acad. aver. 2007)

www.opted.org

As you can see optometry school and osteopathic medical school are very comparable in matriculant GPA statistics. Supply and demand dictate competitiveness----most students dream of becoming MD's and this is why there is such a competition for it. But a DO degree (much less competitive to gain acceptance) gives you the SAME medical license.
The MCAT is not that tough and neither is the OAT. I would rate them on a subjective scale of one to ten-----MCAT=8, OAT=7. If anybody on here thinks that optometry school is any easier than medical school they are foolish and should not be attending optometry school. I have 23 credit hours ---just like my friend who is in medical school here. I study my *** off----7 hours a day outside of class time as I wake up at 430 am to be studying by 5:00 am before my 8 am class. I put in about 40-50 hours a week of studying outside of class time. Any clowns out there that want to go to optometry (or dentistry, or podiatry, for that matter) as an EASIER route to become a doctor of some sort is in for a RUDE awakening. Two people in my class who had (3.7 and 3.6 undergrad GPA's respectively) flunked out the first semester. We have plenty of students with 3.8 to 4.0's before coming in here. Optometric science is conceptually difficult and mixing that with medical basic sciences (gross anatomy, histology, neuro, etc...) you will work very hard------don't believe any other opinion on here to the contrary.

Pick optometry because you love optometry---any other reason and you will find yourself in professional misery.

 

[IndianaOD]

qwopty99,

You really need a reality check. MCAT's 10x as hard as OAT's? You are living in a fantasy land.

I took both the MCAT and the OAT in the same test year and my MCAT scores were better! lol

My MCAT average (33)

• allopathic medical school matriculant average = (30.8 for 2007)
• allopathic medical school applicant average = (27.8 for 2007)
• Average matriculant GPA = 3.65

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/2007mcatgpa.htm

• osteopathic matriculant average average = (24.9 for 2005)
• osteopathic matriculant GPA = 3.44

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/cib2008.pdf

• optometry school matriculant GPA = 3.43
• optometry school OAT matriculant average = 333 (acad. aver. 2007)

www.opted.org

As you can see optometry school and osteopathic medical school are very comparable in matriculant GPA statistics. Supply and demand dictate competitiveness----most students dream of becoming MD's and this is why there is such a competition for it. But a DO degree (much less competitive to gain acceptance) gives you the SAME medical license.
The MCAT is not that tough and neither is the OAT. I would rate them on a subjective scale of one to ten-----MCAT=8, OAT=7. If anybody on here thinks that optometry school is any easier than medical school they are foolish and should not be attending optometry school. I have 23 credit hours ---just like my friend who is in medical school here. I study my *** off----7 hours a day outside of class time as I wake up at 430 am to be studying by 5:00 am before my 8 am class. I put in about 40-50 hours a week of studying outside of class time. Any clowns out there that want to go to optometry (or dentistry, or podiatry, for that matter) as an EASIER route to become a doctor of some sort is in for a RUDE awakening. Two people in my class who had (3.7 and 3.6 undergrad GPA's respectively) flunked out the first semester. We have plenty of students with 3.8 to 4.0's before coming in here. Optometric science is conceptually difficult and mixing that with medical basic sciences (gross anatomy, histology, neuro, etc...) you will work very hard------don't believe any other opinion on here to the contrary.

Pick optometry because you love optometry---any other reason and you will find yourself in professional misery.

Its always supply and demand. If half the OD schools closed down the entering GPAs would be much higher than MD. Just look at the Canadian school.

Its never about how hard the job is or how smart you have to be, its how many people want to be it.

 

[Oculomotor]

Well put Indiana OD. I agree with you as I have thought about the issue regarding UIW and the new california optometry school soon to open. I have done an "about face" regarding this issue and after my own research I am concluding that there really is no need for these new schools. I plan on taking my education as far as I can go. I feel that undergrad students that want be a "doctor of some sort" are just wasting their time and a spot for a student that really wants to become a primary eye doctor (OD). I know of 2 people in my circle of friends here (~15 OD students) that applied for medical school and optometry. One was accepted to a couple MD schools and the latter was accepted to 3 DO schools respectively. They both chose optometry and are very happy regarding their selection. If I was on an admissions committee in the future D) I would do my best to "weed out" these "doctor of some sort" applicants and try to bring in the 3.5 and above passionate students, the 3.8-4.0's of course, and even some of the 3.0 and above with great OAT scores (350 and above) or a year or two of graduate medical science courses with great grades to "make up" for a lackluster GPA. These are the types of people that should be in OD school not applicants who are looking for an alternative destination. period

 

[EyeballerOD]

Back to the question at hand...

The best advice out there is to go ahead and major in premed as the prereqs for most medical schools are nearly identical to those for most OD schools; and just plan to do great on both tests (if your well-prepared for the MCAT your prepared for the OAT).

Be sure ask questions about and shadow any profession that sparks your interest over the course of your collegiate career, whether it be law; some form of medicine or even freakin' underwater basket-weaving!

Learn to run a three minute mile or play beethoven on two instruments simultaneously (because being an Olympic athlete or worldclass musician apparently boosts your chances of getting into med school)


Get a lot of community service, it not only beefs up he application/resumè
, but you will probably learn a valuable life lesson(i.e. You don't want kids or you never want to grow old)

 

[Jay12]

Hey, I'm currently a senior in high school and interested in a career in either optometry or general medicine. (I might even just combine my two loves and try for ophthalmology, but that decision's a long way off!)
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone else here was in the same position as me between MD and OD. I'm really 40/60 (MD/OD) between the two, but my mom won't let me think about OD until I at least take the MCAT and fail out or something. She sees optometry as a second choice only if I'm not accepted into any medical school. Since I don't really have the experience (or money) to go against her views, I've decided to try medicine first and then optometry if that doesn't work out.
Has anyone else here done the same thing, or have you all known you'd be optometrists since you were like 5 years old? If you have, do you have any advice for someone who is going to be taking the MCAT and OAT's in the next few years? I know that the subjects tested seem similar, but how difficult are the questions between the two tests? Is the OAT easier than the MCAT? Should I prepare differently for each, or simply take all the required courses in college and hope for the best?
Sorry in advance if this topic has been posted before. This is my first post on SDN, but I did read through the first page of this forum to check if there were similar topics on this subject.

Since your still in high school, if I were you, I would definitely keep my options open......you may be interested in one career now, but you'd be surprised how often that changes 1, 2, or even 4 years from now....who knows, instead of medicine or optometry, you might even end up going into pharmacy, or dentistry, etc....

My advice would be for you to take science courses that tend to overlap with the prerequisite classes that are required for any one of those aforementioned careers (i.e. organic chem, bio, physics, general chem, physiology, anatomy).....thus, when the time finally approaches for you to decide which path to take, you will have plenty of options to choose from.....In addition, it might also be a good idea to shadow any one of the fields mentioned to get a good idea of what that career entails....Good luck

 

[rodomon]

I think the single most important thing you could do, as has been mentioned a bit, is to shadow or preferably work in both an MD and an OD office.

Shadowing is nice because you get to follow the doctor around and not really do anything, so you get a view of the office from your future perspective. However, it's a little more boring than working all day, so try to find a doctor who will get you more involved (lets you play with the instruments, lets you ask plenty of questions, maybe questions you on how you would handle a patient, etc).

Working (as a receptionist, technician, etc) gives you a different view. You get more of an experience of the whole office all the time as you're out in the open rather than sequestered away in a room 90% of the day. Plus, you're not going to get paid shadowing unless you can find some sort of scholarship or program, but this won't give you the future-you view shadowing does.

You still have plenty of time, so I'd try to do both shadow and work in both OD and MD offices. Also, try out different practice settings, from single doctor / single receptionist (kind of boring) to multi-doctor / multi-receptionist (super hectic). The same with different specialties; OD strictly glasses and CL RXes, OD bills everything medical and does tons of medical work, OD other specialities, MD general practice, MD surgery, MD pediatrics, MD internal medicine, OD/MD co-op practice, etc.

I actually found a single MD office (or look for a hospital) that has many of these when I was in undergrad and shadowed each doctor for a few weeks, which is a much more efficient route to go rather than trying to track down each specialty individually.

For me, it simply came down to that I enjoyed shadowing in and working in the OD practices more. The day-to-day operations were more, well, fun. MDs were always stressed, overworked, overpaperworked, late, etc. It basically was more money and prestige (MD) vs being happier 8 hours a day (OD), and I took happiness. Tons of other pros and cons for each, but that's what tipped me.

In the end, try out everything you can.

Finally, from my personal experience, whether I enjoy a job primarily depends on my co-workers. I've had some of the best jobs in the world with miserable co-workers and was unhappy and some of the worst jobs with great co-workers and loved it. You can get both in any job sector you go into, so it won't help you decide between OD, MD, or anything else, but keep it in mind when you actually start working in about 10 years, because you don't want to get stuck in an office with negative coworkers.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

the two careers are pretty different in terms of lifestyle, responsibility, and salary.

i'll just mention that MCAT is about 10X as hard as the OAT.

I'm jumping on this a bit late, so bear with me.


Do you ever say anything that's correct or at least not demeaning to optometry?

I've taken both and been accepted to both schools and I can tell you that the MCAT was a little more difficult (and annoying because of the writing sample), but not THAT much more difficult.

The other statement is somewhat correct, so I'll give you credit for that. The OD has a better lifestyle, slightly less responsibility and similar salary.

 

[USCMed08]

OP: I can't emphasize this enough, but shadow an optometrist or MD like there's no tomorrow. Keep an open mind and really ask yourself if either path is right for you. I will be graduating from med school in a few months, and I've seen a lot of med students become disillusioned with medicine because they did not know what they were getting themselves into prior to entering med school.

More advice:
1) Do not do optometry because you perceive it as being an easier path.
2) Do not bank on being an opthalmologist; it is one of the hardest specialties to match into. Make sure you want to be a physician first and foremost.
3) As mentioned above, keep an open mind to other possibilities: dentistry, PT, OT, pharmacy, physician assistant, nursing, podiatry, etc.
4) Do not get hung up on prestige, salary, or parental pressure. If those factors are driving your desire to pursue a healthcare-related field, you will very likely be disappointed with your choice.
5) You are incorrect in assuming medical schools do not place any emphasis on undergrad prestige. It does matter. Prestige will always matter, no matter what career you pursue (medicine, law, business, etc.)

I'm not familiar with the optometry path, but if you decide to pursue medicine, major in whatever you want. You don't have to worry about the MCAT at this time, as taking Princeton Review or Kaplan two years from now will suffice (both will prepare you well regardless of your major).

 

[KHE]

I will be graduating from med school in a few months, and I've seen a lot of med students become disillusioned with medicine because they did not know what they were getting themselves into prior to entering med school.

.

What has been the source of that disillusionment? Is it the workload? Is it the actual day to day workings of what a doctor actually does?

 

[gochi]

What has been the source of that disillusionment? Is it the workload? Is it the actual day to day workings of what a doctor actually does?

politics.

 

[IndianaOD]

What has been the source of that disillusionment? Is it the workload? Is it the actual day to day workings of what a doctor actually does?

Too many "god" complexes! Seriously, I'd respect MDs much more if half of them could admit they didn't know everything. Always trying to puff themselves up and put others down, not cool.

 

[MR1]

I wanted to add a few things:

The disillusionment with med students - in my experience this comes mainly from the students that had parents that were MD's and grew up rich, never worked a "real job" in high school or college and went to medical school because what else were they going to do.

Deciding between OD and MD is very personal. I worked for an OD for ~3 years while in college and almost applied to OD school before deciding it wasn't for me. I decided on med school after shadowing alot. No one in my family is a MD or OD. Factor everything into your decision, if prestige REALLY matters to you then that will make a difference. If $ really matters, etc. It comes down to what makes you happy.

Lastly about the comment that the MCAT is 10x harder, having taken both fairly close together, my opinion is the MCAT is harder but only a little maybe twice as hard. One thing to remember though is your board exams, ie the USMLE step 1 is about 10x harder than the MCAT in my opinion and is the one of the major determining factors if you want to get into a more competitive speciality like ophtho. Now of course I can't speak for the OD board exams, they may be just as hard.

 

[IndianaOD]

It doesn't matter how "hard" you percieve the tests, its how well you do compared to all the other applicants.