Anyone else getting butthurt at Physical Therapists saying they are "doctors"

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gyngyn said:
Whereas anyone with a doctorate can be called "doctor" in any non-clinical setting, calling non-physicians Doctor in a hospital or clinic gives patients misinformation. In many clinical settings (including mine) calling anyone who is not an MD, or DO (or dentist) by this honorific is strictly against policy.
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I'm saying the same thing. Read the entire thing. You quoted a snapshot of something I said which is technically true and what I used to follow up is exactly what you're saying.
 
Veni vidi vicii said:
I'm saying the same thing. Read the entire thing. You quoted a snapshot of something I said which is technically true and what I used to follow up is exactly what you're saying.
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I did.
My comment is a clarification for those who may not have followed the whole (convoluted) thread.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
As I said before, anyone with a doctorate may refer to themselves as Dr. Whatever when they are in a non-clinical setting. If someone really wants to get an online doctorate so that they can make a reservation under Dr. Insecure, that's fine with me. The point of the argument is that they are trying to refer to themselves as Dr. Lastname in a CLINICAL setting. I don't care if you add "nurse practitioner" into it (i.e., Doctor of Nursing Practice Lastname), it is still dishonest. When a patient hears "Dr. Lastname," they assume they are talking with a physician. Anyone else using that title is misleading that patient.

I have no qualms with someone getting a DNP and calling themselves Dr. Whatever in the classroom or at home.



They have a doctorate and can use the honorific in a non-clinical setting. That doesn't make them doctors.
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We are essentially saying the same thing and I'm glad we discussed this. You're 100% right it is a form of dishonesty because it is misleading. I was just saying technically they are doctors, but in modern times doctor means physician so obviously they shouldn't even call themselves doctors when orally communicating.
 
gyngyn said:
I did.
My comment is a clarification for those who may not have followed the whole (convoluted) thread.
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Good idea. I see how it can be confusing. Especially in this day and age where people overlook nuances and tiny details. To be honest I didn't think I'd benefit from this thread but it's always nice to see how people think and you guys are 100% right. It is a form of dishonesty when someone refers to themselves as a doctor when in fact they aren't. It would be depressing to see a physical therapist refer to themselves as a doctor instead of PT.

What my contention is that the wheel is slowly turning. By that I mean NP's are getting doctorate degrees, which will lead them to believe they are on par with someone as a physician and soon enough the value of an MD will slowly deteriorate just like a taxi medallion because of uber in NYC. Some nurses already have egos and think they are overworked, the doctorate degree will just be the cherry on the icing. Obviously, not all nurses, but this can soon become a huge problem, if not already.
 
Veni vidi vicii said:
Good idea. I see how it can be confusing. Especially in this day and age where people overlook nuances and tiny details. To be honest I didn't think I'd benefit from this thread but it's always nice to see how people think and you guys are 100% right. It is a form of dishonesty when someone refers to themselves as a doctor when in fact they aren't. It would be depressing to see a physical therapist refer to themselves as a doctor instead of PT.

What my contention is that the wheel is slowly turning. By that I mean NP's are getting doctorate degrees, which will lead them to believe they are on par with someone as a physician and soon enough the value of an MD will slowly deteriorate just like a taxi medallion because of uber in NYC. Some nurses already have egos and think they are overworked, the doctorate degree will just be the cherry on the icing. Obviously, not all nurses, but this can soon become a huge problem, if not already.
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I am wondering how many people in this thread are pissing and moaning about the use of the term "doctor " because of a mindset that this should be only used for God's anointed, vs those who are honestly worried about patients being confused, like the wise gyngyn .
 
Goro said:
I am wondering how many people in this thread are pissing and moaning about the use of the term "doctor " because of a mindset that this should be only used for God's anointed, vs those who are honestly worried about patients being confused, like the wise gyngyn .
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Not sure, but I personally don’t care if a DNP calls herself Dr. on her tax forms or in a classroom.
 
Goro said:
But in the clinic???
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I’ve seen a DNP introduce herself to patients as Dr. Lastname and then contradict what the patient’s surgeon told them. As far as the patient knew, another doctor is telling her to ignore something her surgeon said—but it was actually just a midlevel that worked for same day.

So no, they should not use the term doctor in clinic. That word in a clinical setting is assumed to mean physician. I have no problem seeing a PA or an NP, but I want to know that’s who I’m seeing.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I’ve seen a DNP introduce herself to patients as Dr. Lastname and then contradict what the patient’s surgeon told them. As far as the patient knew, another doctor is telling her to ignore something her surgeon said—but it was actually just a midlevel that worked for same day.

So no, they should not use the term doctor in clinic. That word in a clinical setting is assumed to mean physician. I have no problem seeing a PA or an NP, but I want to know that’s who I’m seeing.
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So at least you are concerned about patient safety. Other people complaining in this thread? I wonder.

Although the "just a midelvel"...that also is telling.
 
Goro said:
So at least you are concerned about patient safety. Other people complaining in this thread? I wonder.

Although the "just a midelvel"...that also is telling.
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Don’t read too much into that. I take my daughters to see an FNP whom we love. No hate for midlevels who practice within their scope. I did midlevel care too.
 
Goro said:
So at least you are concerned about patient safety. Other people complaining in this thread? I wonder.

Although the "just a midelvel"...that also is telling.
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I think a good gauge of this is pharmacy. They have doctorates, they dont go around telling people in clinic that they are doctors. Outside of a hospital I will call you what ever you want me to call you. And obviously I call all my professors who are PHD's doctor because they are, they earned the right to be called doctor however this is outside the hospital patient care setting.
 
libertyyne said:
I think a good gauge of this is pharmacy. They have doctorates, they dont go around telling people in clinic that they are doctors. Outside of a hospital I will call you what ever you want me to call you. And obviously I call all my professors who are PHD's doctor because they are, they earned the right to be called doctor however this is outside the hospital patient care setting.
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Exactly. I called my Shakespeare professor “doctor.” The term isn’t specific to physicians except in a clinical setting.
 
Just curious.....what are your feelings on veterinarians? I get the impression that there are people who feel that only physicians should be allowed to use the title of doctor.
 
meningealworm said:
Just curious.....what are your feelings on veterinarians? I get the impression that there are people who feel that only physicians should be allowed to use the title of doctor.
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Why on earth wouldnt Vets be called doctor. They are doctors, but vets dont show up in human clinic and interact with patients either .
 
Take this for what its worth... I used to be in a DPT program and a few of my classmates were already gearing up for everyone to call them "Doctors." One guy told me "Yeah, everyone is going to call me Dr. McButtSpasm, because I will earn the right to do so." To combat this, a few of my professors in the PT program completely agreed that the term Dr. should NOT be used in a hospital setting, because it really does confuse the patient.

For example, my mom barely obtained a high school degree and she has issues differentiating between NP's, PA's, and MD/DO's. If a person walks in with a white coat on, she assumes they are the doctor. Likewise, if they state their name as Dr. _____ my mom will assume they are the physician in charge (This has happened on MULTIPLE occasions). I know my mom is not the only patient out there that goes through the same issues. Anyways, when I become a physician I intend on giving DPT's, DNP's, DPM's, etc. the same respect, because they earned their doctorate degree.
 
DPTinthemaking15 said:
Crap... You got me. :laugh: I'll just avoid them altogether in the hospital *walks briskly past the rehab facility*
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It’s against policy in a lot of hospitals to call anyone doctor who isn’t a physician. It’s like that for a reason. As you said, it confuses patients. It’s not disrespectful to refer to a DPT as a physical therapist or a DNP as a nurse practitioner.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
While simultaneously not referring to them as doctor in the hospital, right?
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
It’s against policy in a lot of hospitals to call anyone doctor who isn’t a physician. It’s like that for a reason. As you said, it confuses patients. It’s not disrespectful to refer to a DPT as a physical therapist or a DNP as a nurse practitioner.
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Very true. I hate it because I know obtaining those degrees aren't easy per se, but like you said, patients are confused as heck. I know some folks would disagree, but they need to have an encounter with my mom lol. Anyways, I could rant about this for hours, because I wished the PT degree was still a BS or Master's degree. But I guess you can't get everything you want lol.
 
meningealworm said:
Just curious.....what are your feelings on veterinarians? I get the impression that there are people who feel that only physicians should be allowed to use the title of doctor.
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There was a thread not too long ago about this! Poster reported about one of God's anointed getting pissed off when he went to the vet for his pet and the vet was referred to as "Dr Jones".
 
The have their doctorate. We call them doctor because that is what they are. Not Physician, but doctor. Where it starts to get gray is when DNP or DSc-PA’s say they are doctor so and so. That distinguishment should be held outside of a clinical setting and moreso in academic.. as that is really the only reason to have a doctorate and their position; to teach or hold a higher position than just in clinic.


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JKGarv said:
I think it's OK for DPM's to call themselves doctor in a clinical setting? Maybe its a grey area.
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Yeah, I meant DPTs and DNPs. Pods have completed a professional medical program and in the states I’ve lived in are legally allowed to call themselves podiatric physicians.
 
In America, I would hope most people considers Podiatrists who have gone through all the schooling (7+ years) a physician, especially when that have that big long scalpel ready to do an incision!

Like the DO degree, podiatry means something diff outside America.

Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah, I meant DPTs and DNPs. Pods have completed a professional medical program and in the states I’ve lived in are legally allowed to call themselves podiatric physicians.
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If they have a doctorate they have a doctorate...
I called the NP I visited before Dr.X..
The NP also had a PhD though

Besides, I am not a doctor or a PhD so it doesn't matter to me..

Except for Naturopaths, I will outright refuse to consider a naturopath a doctor..

I won't go near a naturpathic clinic either, nope..

But as far as if the DNP, the Doctor of Physical therapy or whoever else should or should not be called Doctor or what have ya, technically they have a doctorate and so formally are to be addressed as Dr._____

Who am I to tell someone what their title is?
Heck, I haven't even gotten my B.S yet, my opinion is moot.
 
GypsyHummus said:
In America, I would hope most people considers Podiatrists who have gone through all the schooling (7+ years) a physician, especially when that have that big long scalpel ready to do an incision!

Like the DO degree, podiatry means something diff outside America.
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Yeah, I've worked with a few of them. I'll call anyone who does surgery like that doctor lol.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
If they have a doctorate they have a doctorate...
I called the NP I visited before Dr.X..
The NP also had a PhD though

Besides, I am not a doctor or a PhD so it doesn't matter to me..

Except for Naturopaths, I will outright refuse to consider a naturopath a doctor..

I won't go near a naturpathic clinic either, nope..

But as far as if the DNP, the Doctor of Physical therapy or whoever else should or should not be called Doctor or what have ya, technically they have a doctorate and so formally are to be addressed as Dr._____

Who am I to tell someone what their title is?
Heck, I haven't even gotten my B.S yet, my opinion is moot.
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In non-clinical settings, I agree. In the clinical setting, it confuses patients. We are here to take care of patients, not stroke our egos.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
In non-clinical settings, I agree. In the clinical setting, it confuses patients. We are here to take care of patients, not stroke our egos.
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Their title is clear on their badge, and the forums.
Never been confused by a DNP, in fact you are usually told you will be seeing the DNP and not the doctor.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
Their title is clear on their badge, and the forums.
Never been confused by a DNP, in fact you are usually told you will be seeing the DNP and not the doctor.
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You're not most patients. An enormous number of patients--the majority, I'd say--are easily confused. I have seen patients refer to PAs and NPs as the doctor even when they don't introduce themselves that way. I've seen a patient call an anesthesia tech a doctor. I've seen patients call doctors nurses or orderlies.

Most patients are not as well educated as you, and most of them don't understand what the different roles are. Like it or not, the physician is the quarterback. NPs and PAs have an important role, but when you have an NP going to patients and introducing themself as Dr. Lastname, that gets unnecessarily confusing to patients (and their doctors, when the patient says "the doctor" told me X and everyone is trying to figure out who told them that). When a DNP who works in the surgical department introduces herself as Dr. Lastname and tells patients her own opinion on their care, sometimes contradicting their physicians, that is dangerous.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
You're not most patients. An enormous number of patients--the majority, I'd say--are easily confused. I have seen patients refer to PAs and NPs as the doctor even when they don't introduce themselves that way. I've seen a patient call an anesthesia tech a doctor. I've seen patients call doctors nurses or orderlies.

Most patients are not as well educated as you, and most of them don't understand what the different roles are. Like it or not, the physician is the quarterback. NPs and PAs have an important role, but when you have an NP going to patients and introducing themself as Dr. Lastname, that gets unnecessarily confusing to patients (and their doctors, when the patient says "the doctor" told me X and everyone is trying to figure out who told them that). When a DNP who works in the surgical department introduces herself as Dr. Lastname and tells patients her own opinion on their care, sometimes contradicting their physicians, that is dangerous.
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I think the lab coats confuse a lot of people too
Everyone has a lab coat uncluding the phlebotomist

That is why I like what Mayo does, the suits.

Who doesn't want to wear s 3 piece suit every day?
 
Dr.Sticks said:
I think the lab coats confuse a lot of people too
Everyone has a lab coat uncluding the phlebotomist

That is why I like what Mayo does, the suits.

Who doesn't want to wear s 3 piece suit every day?
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having worn one for a few years I can tell you it isnt as glamorous as you would think. Plus you are probably gonna get MRSA on all your nice suits that can only be dry cleaned.
 
Ok but what about that contestant on the Bachelorette last season that was calling himself a “chiropractic physician”?
 
gyngyn said:
OMFS candidates are given advanced standing in an application to medical school (usually a year).
They still need to apply to and be accepted to a medical school.
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Technically true, but if the task were just to be accepted into *any* medical school, the OMFS title would be easier to attain. Dental matriculating stats are a bit higher on avg than DO stats for starters (even more so when you consider the DO grade forgiveness up until now), and OMFS students tend to be some of the best from their dental class.

Still, any time you have to please multiple committees, you have your work cut out for you. A lot of the programs in question are pretty reputable to begin with, as well.

Re - advanced standing - in most of the programs I've seen, the dental student completes the MD with 2 additional years' work. I work for Harvard, and our residents do MS 3 and 4, and I know that it's the same at LSU, for example. It may well be as you describe at some others, not sure. Certain schools share dent/med curriculum for the first two years (UCONN, Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook..), and those tend to do very well with OMFS placement.
 
ProspectivePostPreDent said:
Technically true, but if the task were just to be accepted into *any* medical school, the OMFS title would be easier to attain. Dental matriculating stats are a bit higher on avg than DO stats for starters (even more so when you consider the DO grade forgiveness up until now), and OMFS students tend to be some of the best from their dental class.
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Comparing the academic achievements of OMFS and DO applicants is not easily done.
Most of them have not taken the MCAT which would standardize that part of the evaluation. Of the ones who have taken the MCAT, their scores have been at or below acceptable for DO schools (and well below our median) in my experience. Their undergrad grades are all over the map. Their dental school evaluations are hard to interpret as they all sound the same.

I do not doubt that they are some of the better dental students.
 
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