Are Caribbean medical schools really that bad of an idea?

[Wolverine93]

I messed up in undergrad. My cumulative GPA is a 2.9 and my science GPA is a 2.5.

I'm going to have a very difficult time getting into a medical school in the US.

Is going to one of the four top Caribbean medical schools (AUC, SABA, Ross, and SGU) really that bad of an idea?

Or should I go to grad school or do a post-bacc and then try applying?

I was thinking I would go to a local university and take some upper level science courses as a non-degree student and potentially apply in 2015?

I can't stand the thought of not being a doctor. What path would you take if you were me? I appreciate any insight.

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[chiberian husky]

YES, they really are a bad idea.

 

[Goro]

Really bad. Don't believe the shills who have been posting about their wonders lately. Massive attrition rates, up-front tuition payment, and most importantly: poor match results. The latter will only get worse with the ACGME/AOA merger.

For GPA repair, re-take all F/D/C grade science coursework . Does wonders for the GPA, under AACOMAS' grade replacement policy. Then apply to DO programs. You can do this in a post-bac, either an organized one, or a DIY.

OR: enroll in a SMP given by a medical school. These programs are your backdoor into medical school.

Then ace the MCAT. There ARE MD schools that reward reinvention.

You don't need to retake courses at the same school. You could wait until you graduate then retake classes at a less expensive school. The retaken coursework must have the same credits or better. Though the course title need not be identical, the course content must be very similar according to the course catalogs.

I messed up in undergrad. My cumulative GPA is a 2.9 and my science GPA is a 2.5.

I'm going to have a very difficult time getting into a medical school in the US.

Is going to one of the four top Caribbean medical schools (AUC, SABA, Ross, and SGU) really that bad of an idea?

Or should I go to grad school or do a post-bacc and then try applying?

I was thinking I would go to a local university and take some upper level science courses as a non-degree student and potentially apply in 2015?

I can't stand the thought of not being a doctor. What path would you take if you were me? I appreciate any insight.

 

[DrMidlife]

From a 2.9/2.5 you need more than one year of redemption work. Can't fix four years of bad with one of good. Don't go looking for an easy way into med school if you actually want to get through med school and get a residency.

Also assume that you will need to go through some painful growth and character development to become an A student. Bad habits don't go away for the asking. It'll still be you facing those study materials and they never get fun to play with.

You can get tips from the huge low GPA threads here and in the postbac forum.

You're exactly the kind of student that the Carib schools love to get, because they'll take your money for two years and then fail you out because you weren't ready to do well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

delete

 

[Wolverine93]

Thanks everyone.

What do you guys think of me retaking the MCAT in August or September? I currently have a 23 (9 bio, 8 physical, and 6 verbal). My score is average, at best. I'm aiming for a 30 or higher.

I was also thinking of taking some time to retake the classes I did badly in (like Orgo for example) and potentially taking some upper level science courses to show medical schools in can handle it.

After taking minimum a year to get good grades in my courses, I could apply to post-baccs with linkage and DO schools?

I already graduated so I can't change my undergraduate GPA. That's a big problem I'm having.

Does that sound like a better plan?

 

[DrMidlife]

What do you guys think of me retaking the MCAT in August or September? I currently have a 23 (9 bio, 8 physical, and 6 verbal). My score is average, at best. I'm aiming for a 30 or higher.

Too soon. Wait. You can't pop a 30+ in 2 months with a 6 verbal on top of a sub-3.0. Be smart.

I was also thinking of taking some time to retake the classes I did badly in (like Orgo for example) and potentially taking some upper level science courses to show medical schools in can handle it.

Yes. Lots of ways to do this. Seriously, look for the low GPA threads in nontrad and postbac and spend dozens of hours reading stories from people who got into med school from EXACTLY YOUR SITUATION.

After taking minimum a year to get good grades in my courses, I could apply to post-baccs with linkage and DO schools?

Postbacs with linkages no, DO schools maybe. You can't get into an MD linkage program with your stats, no way. Your best bet would be more undergrad followed by a masters program at a DO school. You'd learn about such programs if you do lots of reading on SDN about people who have been in your shoes.

I already graduated so I can't change my undergraduate GPA. That's a big problem I'm having.

Incorrect. Undergrad is undergrad. If you do more undergrad it goes into your undergrad GPA. Again, lots of ways to approach GPA redemption which you could learn about if you do some reading. Really!

Best of luck to you.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks everyone.

What do you guys think of me retaking the MCAT in August or September? I currently have a 23 (9 bio, 8 physical, and 6 verbal). My score is average, at best. I'm aiming for a 30 or higher.

I was also thinking of taking some time to retake the classes I did badly in (like Orgo for example) and potentially taking some upper level science courses to show medical schools in can handle it.

After taking minimum a year to get good grades in my courses, I could apply to post-baccs with linkage and DO schools?

I already graduated so I can't change my undergraduate GPA. That's a big problem I'm having.

Does that sound like a better plan?

Agree with the prior poster. You have a lot of grade rehabilitation to work on and the MCAT would be very premature at this juncture. This isn't a race. You either spend the time it takes or don't bother. I see a over a year of courses in your future before it makes sense to even start studying for the MCAT.

 

[DocWinter]

Listen to DrMidlife on GPA repair...you have serious work to do, so much so that perhaps you'll reconsider this, and there is no shame in that. If you retake all those bad grades of C and lower, you could improve your GPA to a point where DO schools would consider you. You are a prime target to the Caribbean and I'm sure it looks good to you right now, but as Goro mentioned, the very poor match rates could do you in for a sad life tale, if your poor study abilities don't take you down first. Please, walk away and don't believe you can beat the odds. It's no different than a pyramid scheme or MLM; there are always some people who vacation in Maui and drive a porsche. Everyone else loses and no one hears about it.

 

[whatwhy]

I am in a similar situation and it really ****ing sucks. Good luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

Fair warning: it's an expensive boondoggle and not a truly viable option that you're proposing, my friend, one of the very worst bad ideas you could possibly have. Going to the Caribbean is a risky proposition for any student, but it can sometimes pan out for the person who does well on standardized tests and has found a new passion to light a fire under their butt. You? With a 23 MCAT and a sub 3.0 GPA, you would be throwing your money away to become just another Carib washout story that gets swept under the rug and never told on any of the glossy brochures.

There are no shortcuts into (or through) medical training. If you want to be a doctor badly enough, you will make the commitment of time, money, and effort to do what is necessary to achieve your goal. But if it's too much work to be worth it to you, just be honest with yourself about that. You're not a failure as a human being if you decide that the med school hoops are too many and too high. There are plenty of other careers you can pursue besides becoming a physician.

If you do decide to go forward, then as the others have said, start at the beginning. First, you need to learn how to study and get As. Retake the classes where you earned low grades, but start slowly with just one class. Your goal that first semester is to make one A in one class. If that goes well, you can take two classes the next semester, and work up as able from there. As the others have said, this post-bac/GPA rehabilitation will be a two year process for you, *minimum.* Then, you can worry about MCAT prep, applying, etc. So your timeline should be more along the lines of at least two years of post bac, then MCAT + application glide year. In other words, you *realistically* might be ready to apply in June 2016 to start med school in August 2017, especially if you apply to DO schools and do grade replacement via AACOMAS. But again, that is the best case scenario, and depending on how much GPA repair you really need to do, you might need to put off applying another year or two beyond that.

Just to be clear: you can go to med school; it's just a question of how badly you really want it. Take some time to think about this, and decide if getting into med school is worth this kind of investment to you. Once you make your decision, move forward with it and go through each step one at a time. And keep in mind that you only "win" this "race" if you actually manage to complete the course.

 

[el_duderino]

Did you have 1-2 bad semesters that you've since overcome, or were you consistently a B/C student through undergrad? I think there's a difference. I think that the alternative of spending a couple of years doing post-bac or graduate work at a high level, getting a high MCAT, and doing significant clinical and volunteer work is far, far superior than resorting to a Caribbean school.

I briefly thought about a Carib school given my rather problematic application. I ruled it out, deciding instead I was going to keep accruing ECs and semesters of 4.0 grades until I got into a US school. And I'm over 30. So that should indicate my opinion.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

Here's my advice in bulleted format:
1.) Think hard if medicine is what you want in life, feel free to consult with others involved in it.
2.) Think hard as to why your grades/MCAT are not up to par for admission. Is it due to lack of maturity that you have now overcome? Lack of study skills? Something else? You must decide if you can overcome this if given a second chance or you could end up making a very costly mistake (time, money, and confidence) to try to improve your candidacy.
3.) Take post bacc classes on your own at a university, assuming you are able to get the classes you want with grade replacement you could conceivably replace ~24 hours of grades in a year which can make quite a difference if you are bringing home A's to replace C's and especially D/F's.
4.) Retake MCAT with strong preparation. (Helps if the classes you are retaking involve MCAT subjects e.g. physics, organic, gen chem etc.)
5.) Fill free time with extra-curriculars
6.) Apply to DO post-bacc linkage programs or direct DO school admissions.
7.) Do very well in the post-bacc and get into med school.

The above path will likely take 2 full years before you are accepted but I believe it is the best path to follow. Keep in mind I am no more qualified than the next man to comment here, I am just giving you what I believe is the best way based on lots of thought being put into the same options that you are looking at. In order to make this plan work, you must carefully consider #1 and 2. A wrong decision there could end up with a lifetime regret. Good luck.

 

[Wolverine93]

Thank you for the honest advice, everyone. I know I've got a long road ahead but I'll do whatever I have to do to become a physician.

I really appreciate you guys being constructive and helping me find a path into medical school, rather than just telling me to give up.

 

[Wolverine93]

I am in a similar situation and it really ******* sucks. Good luck.

You too. We got this! A lot of hard work can get us into medical school.
It might take time, but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thank you for the honest advice, everyone. I know I've got a long road ahead but I'll do whatever I have to do to become a physician.

I really appreciate you guys being constructive and helping me find a path into medical school, rather than just telling me to give up.

I have no idea whether you should give up. You've yet to show what you're capable of academically, which gets to gonnif's point about not being too quick to jump to the Caribbean before making an honest effort to get into an American school. In other words, don't you be so quick to give up on yourself.

 

[Odpb55]

I met a girl at one of the info sessions who said she was rejected at first but then cried and begged them over the phone until they accepted her.

 

[type12]

I met a girl at one of the info sessions who said she was rejected at first but then cried and begged them over the phone until they accepted her.

Personally, I think this is the best advice on this thread: least effort and shortest time. Win win!

 

[mspeedwagon]

As a whole, I've found sdn to be pretty anti-Caribbean. Knowing quite a few grads from the Caribbean (some very recent), I'd say there it is a good LAST resort option if any of the following apply to you:
- You have gotten a lot of As lately, but your GPA is so far beyond repair that it is no going to matter (even for DO).
- Your MCAT score is stuck in the mid to low 20s and US schools aren't willing to take a chance on you.
- For whatever reason, you can't be out of the US for an extended period of time (so true international schools like Sackler, which is a better option in my opinion, are not an option).
- You have the funds that even if two years in the Caribbean ends up being a wash, you're ok with that.

I don't recommend the Caribbean to anyone. I don't think it's a good idea until you've given the US a good shot. However, there is a time and place for it (and many people do it). I think this blog is a great starting place for the Caribbean: http://www.caribbeanmedstudent.com/. Note, the person writing it had a 3.5/28, but couldn't get into an MD program in the States.

Please note, when I say Caribbean, I ONLY mean the Big 4. Also, of the Big 4, Ross is the worst option in my opinion (http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ross-...rsity-School-of-Medicine-with-over-40-1093042) though as you'll see in the comments, people do have positive experiences at the school. I am not talking about any other schools. There are some that should NEVER be attended under ANY circumstance.

 

[Law2Doc]

As a whole, I've found sdn to be pretty anti-Caribbean. Knowing quite a few grads from the Caribbean (some very recent), I'd say there it is a good LAST resort option if any of the following apply to you:
- You have gotten a lot of As lately, but your GPA is so far beyond repair that it is no going to matter (even for DO).
- Your MCAT score is stuck in the mid to low 20s and US schools aren't willing to take a chance on you.
- For whatever reason, you can't be out of the US for an extended period of time (so true international schools like Sackler, Ben Gurion, etc., which are better options in my opinion, are not an option).
- You have the funds that even if two years in the Caribbean ends up being a wash, you're ok with that.

I don't recommend the Caribbean to anyone. I don't think it's a good idea until you've given the US a good shot. However, there is a time and place for it (and many people do it). I think this blog is a great starting place for the Caribbean: http://www.caribbeanmedstudent.com/. Note, the person writing it had a 3.5/28, but couldn't get into an MD program in the States.

Please note, when I say Caribbean, I ONLY mean the Big 4. Also, of the Big 4, Ross is the worst option in my opinion (http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Ross-...rsity-School-of-Medicine-with-over-40-1093042) though as you'll see in the comments, people do have positive experiences at the school. I am not talking about any other schools. There are some that should NEVER be attended under ANY circumstance.

First, I'm not sure recommending education in a country that's facing nightly bomb attacks for med school is going to be an easy sell. I don't really know how much better they are -- honestly, having now been on the other side of the process in residency, i can tell you that the places that arent interested in imgs arent more interested in those from israel. At least not these days. They may get some traction in NYC, but so does Ross. Neither option is a first or second choice IMHO. There are just too many good local prospects these days.

Second, I don't think SDN is anti-Caribbean, so much as we try to temper the frequent posts by shills from a couple of the schools touting fake percentages and match lists. We try to get people to look at the actual stats, not the puffery that places not subject to our federal truth in advertising laws throw out there. And the truth is that the business model of all of these places is to separate you from your money. They will promise you the world, accept huge classes, dont even have internal rotations and contract out for these as best they can, and then don't graduate most, and even after all this the match percentage of IMGs is about 50%. And thts getting worse every year as US med school enrollment increases, with the use of soap, and "all in" policies. From here on out, every match is going to be worse for offshore schools than the prior one. I tip my hat to those who make it through this gauntlet because they defied truly horrible odds.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I can only speak for NY, but here in NYC, Sackler>>>>>Caribbean. Sackler places residents to Mt Sinai, Long Island Jewish, Brown, etc. I cannot say the same for Ross (again, here in NY/RI only). You should watch the videos of Sackler's match day on YouTube. I had quite a few friends that went there (many from my undergrad). They struggled a lot less than the Caribbean folks.

As far as going to school in a place that is being bombed daily, I did it before (Yemen) and do not recommend it, but some people may really want to pursue medicine no matter what.

And I do not disagree and that there is a lot of false advertising. But for a certain type of student, they remain a viable last resort option imho. They just need to know upfront the odds are against them.

First, I'm not sure recommending education in a country that's facing nightly bomb attacks for med school is going to be an easy sell. I don't really know how much better they are -- honestly, having now been on the other side of the process in residency, i can tell you that the places that arent interested in imgs arent more interested in those from israel. At least not these days. They may get some traction in NYC, but so does Ross. Neither option is a first or second choice IMHO. There are just too many good local prospects these days.

Second, I don't think SDN is anti-Caribbean, so much as we try to temper the frequent posts by shills from a couple of the schools touting fake percentages and match lists. We try to get people to look at the actual stats, not the puffery that places not subject to our federal truth in advertising laws throw out there. And the truth is that the business model of all of these places is to separate you from your money. They will promise you the world, accept huge classes, dont even have internal rotations and contract out for these as best they can, and then don't graduate most, and even after all this the match percentage of IMGs is about 50%. And thts getting worse every year as US med school enrollment increases, with the use of soap, and "all in" policies. From here on out, every match is going to be worse for offshore schools than the prior one. I tip my hat to those who make it through this gauntlet because they defied truly horrible odds.

 

[Law2Doc]

... You should watch the videos of Sackler's match day on YouTube...
... But for a certain type of student, they remain a viable last resort option imho. They just need to know upfront the odds are against them.

First, a match day video will be irrelevant. All important questions relate to those who don't match. Even the worst path in the world is going to have enough success stories to put on YouTube or publish a match list. I'd want to see the video of the people who didn't go to match day.

I'm sure there are a few NYC programs that these grads do very well with because of experience and connections, but handful of hospitals in one city is not enough to give you decent odds. Elsewhere, from what I've observed, their application gets into the IMG pile. Just like some of the other paths that used to be viable options, like Ireland, Poland. You can say but they have an "affiliation" with a US program and that may fly at 1-2 places, but to the rest of the country it's not a LCME certified program so it's still people who went "offshore" for med school -- and when push comes to shove these grads are still going to be on the wrong side of the IMG line.

Second, I think you have to realize that how "viable" an option these non-US paths remain is a moving target. The number of US grads is rapidly increasing. So every US program, even those that historically had to resort to non-US grads to fill in prior years, is going to start to see more applications from US grads than spots. They are going to start to rethink their approach of focusing on foreign grads because they suddenly have a choice. It is predicted that in only a few years US schools will graduate of equivalent number to residency spots, and then it's really game over. Everyone will want the LCME brand name because its regarded as the gold standard here. You don't want to be a third year med student overseas when that happens and the gates swing completely shut. So no, these paths simply aren't as viable as they were five years ago, and they will be even less viable in another few. It's a game of musical chairs as we start running out of chairs. I don't care if we are talking about the "best" if these non-US options -- that's like talking about eating the food that has the "least" mold and fungus growing on it -- it's still not a good option.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I fully agree with you. IMG is a less and less viable path each year. But, if you had to go IMG (assuming no US school was an option for a second), I would then start looking into programs strongly affiliated with cities you want to practice in. Since my undergrad (Brown) sent a lot of kids to Sackler over the years (including in their most recent class), I'm very familiar with Sackler NY program (they have a lot of slots throughout NYC). All the folks that went to Sackler matched (all matches were made to the same few hospitals in the NY area (many of them to Long Island Jewish and Albert Einstein Montefiore) and New England area, which as you suggest indicates that these particular programs have experience with Sackler grads). I don't know any people that matched to say, a program in, CA from Sackler.

In contrast, my old co-worker flunked out of a one of the Big 4 (per his own admission, he spent his time on the beach and didn't study). And, I know a few people that flunked out of Ross over the years. Several folks were NOT even allowed to sit for Step 1 since the failed shelf exams and were dismissed. And, then there were those that were really unlucky and paid for all 4 years (passing all Steps), but had scores too low to match anywhere. I have a hard time finding true statistics from the Caribbean... I do find some of the long established IMGs to be more true in advertising that the off-shore Caribbean schools.

And, while I agree that these are not good options, assuming all you had was to choose from what food with various degrees of mold, that least amount would probably be the most appealing.

First, a match day video will be irrelevant. All important questions relate to those who don't match. Even the worst path in the world is going to have enough success stories to put on YouTube or publish a match list. I'd want to see the video of the people who didn't go to match day.

I'm sure there are a few NYC programs that these grads do very well with because of experience and connections, but handful of hospitals in one city is not enough to give you decent odds. Elsewhere, from what I've observed, their application gets into the IMG pile. Just like some of the other paths that used to be viable options, like Ireland, Poland. You can say but they have an "affiliation" with a US program and that may fly at 1-2 places, but to the rest of the country it's not a LCME certified program so it's still people who went "offshore" for med school -- and when push comes to shove these grads are still going to be on the wrong side of the IMG line.

Second, I think you have to realize that how "viable" an option these non-US paths remain is a moving target. The number of US grads is rapidly increasing. So every US program, even those that historically had to resort to non-US grads to fill in prior years, is going to start to see more applications from US grads than spots. They are going to start to rethink their approach of focusing on foreign grads because they suddenly have a choice. It is predicted that in only a few years US schools will graduate of equivalent number to residency spots, and then it's really game over. Everyone will want the LCME brand name because its regarded as the gold standard here. You don't want to be a third year med student overseas when that happens and the gates swing completely shut. So no, these paths simply aren't as viable as they were five years ago, and they will be even less viable in another few. It's a game of musical chairs as we start running out of chairs. I don't care if we are talking about the "best" if these non-US options -- that's like talking about eating the food that has the "least" mold and fungus growing on it -- it's still not a good option.

 

[LingoLaine]

Don't go looking for an easy way into med school if you actually want to get through med school and get a residency.

My thoughts exactly. If you can't get into a US med school, you probably shouldn't go. That doesn't mean that if you are rejected the first time around, you shouldn't improve your application and keep trying, but Caribbean schools are definitely not the answer.

 

[danielterrones]

You will hear mostly negative feedback on SDN regarding Carribean schools. I think most people (even outside of SDN) would agree that a DO program would be a better option. I have a great friend who graduated from Ross and had no problem finding a residency in southern California. I think that in his case, he made great connections during his rotations and that transitioned into an easy time finding residency.

Hope this helps

 

[Law2Doc]

...I have a great friend who graduated from Ross and had no problem finding a residency in southern California. I think that in his case, he made great connections during his rotations and that transitioned into an easy time finding residency.

Hope this helps

Anecdotes very definitely DON'T help. everybody "knows a guy". I know a guy who won a ton of money in the state lottery -- does that make anyone else have good odds?

The truth of the matter is offshore grads face high attrition and even after that hurdle only have just under a 50% chance at matching. Thats not bias against offshore schools on SDN, that's published data. And these odds are dropping like a stone as the US med school enrollment increases. Offshore schools already took a hit with the "all in" rule and the switch from scramble to soap. The decks are stacked gainst them and getting worse. Not sure why this is even a debate. There will always be "a guy" somebody knows who beat the odds. You probably won't.

 

[type12]

wrong thread

 

[jl lin]

And not this ? again either!

 

[demayette]

I'm sure there are a few NYC programs that these grads do very well with because of experience and connections, but handful of hospitals in one city is not enough to give you decent odds. Elsewhere, from what I've observed, their application gets into the IMG pile. Just like some of the other paths that used to be viable options, like Ireland, Poland. You can say but they have an "affiliation" with a US program and that may fly at 1-2 places, but to the rest of the country it's not a LCME certified program so it's still people who went "offshore" for med school -- and when push comes to shove these grads are still going to be on the wrong side of the IMG line.

Second, I think you have to realize that how "viable" an option these non-US paths remain is a moving target. The number of US grads is rapidly increasing. So every US program, even those that historically had to resort to non-US grads to fill in prior years, is going to start to see more applications from US grads than spots. They are going to start to rethink their approach of focusing on foreign grads because they suddenly have a choice. It is predicted that in only a few years US schools will graduate of equivalent number to residency spots, and then it's really game over. Everyone will want the LCME brand name because its regarded as the gold standard here. You don't want to be a third year med student overseas when that happens and the gates swing completely shut. So no, these paths simply aren't as viable as they were five years ago, and they will be even less viable in another few. It's a game of musical chairs as we start running out of chairs. I don't care if we are talking about the "best" if these non-US options -- that's like talking about eating the food that has the "least" mold and fungus growing on it -- it's still not a good option.

Not true technically since PR is offshore, albeit these schools are LCME accredited...

 

[Law2Doc]

Not true technically since PR is offshore, albeit these schools are LCME accredited...

You are bing too literal/ intentionally obtuse. Everyone on SDN i hope realizes that when we are talking "Caribbean" or "offshore" schools we aren't talking about the LCME accredited schools in PR. They are not foreign med schools. They are US allo accredited school.

 

[QofQuimica]

You are bing too literal/ intentionally obtuse. Everyone on SDN i hope realizes that when we are talking "Caribbean" or "offshore" schools we aren't talking about the LCME accredited schools in PR. They are not foreign med schools. They are US allo accredited school.

Hahaha, s/he must be a fellow lawyer-turned-med student.

For anyone who still cares, the reason why you hear "mostly negative feedback on SDN" when it comes to Caribbean schools is because, for the majority of premeds, going to the Caribbean for med school is a bad idea. Again, it can be a possible avenue to success in select cases after all other avenues have been exhausted. But most of you have no business even considering it if you have not yet made an honest effort to get into an accredited American med school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Not true technically since PR is offshore, albeit these schools are LCME accredited...

The point is the accrediting body (as you pointed out) is important, not the education. If the school is LCME or AOA accredited (U.S. accrediting bodies), then those graduates coming from those schools are on the priority list for U.S. residencies (I am talking about in general, and not those n=1 scenarios where US-IMGs get residencies in New York over DOs).

If you want to get technical you might as well put Hawaii on that list, offshore but LCME accredited. It's not the former (offshore), but the latter (LCME accredited) that is important.

 

[demayette]

@IslandStyle808 ... I did not say Hawaii because most premeds know it is part of the US, but they usually think PR is a foreign country--not a commonwealth of the US...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/caribbean-vs-puerto-rico.260249/

 

[IslandStyle808]

@IslandStyle808 ... I did not say Hawaii because most premeds know it is part of the US, but they usually think PR is a foreign country--not a commonwealth of the US...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/caribbean-vs-puerto-rico.260249/

Well, the senior posters on here are usually well informed (the guy who posted that question had 3 posts, so yeah there are definitely those people). They pretty much know what Law2Doc was referring too. The main thing to remember is that the accrediting body is important not where the school is. You could drop a school in Guam or American Samoa and if it is LCME accredited, then they are treated as US schools with US privileges.

 

[QofQuimica]

@IslandStyle808 ... I did not say Hawaii because most premeds know it is part of the US, but they usually think PR is a foreign country--not a commonwealth of the US...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/caribbean-vs-puerto-rico.260249/

I don't think "most premeds" are unaware that PR is an American commonwealth. One would reasonably expect that most American college students learned some basic American history in high school. But regardless, for what we care about (getting into an American residency), it doesn't really matter if a few premeds are a bit deficient in their knowledge of geography and history. What matters is what residency PDs think of PR grads, not what premeds think of them. And as pointed out by others in the thread you linked, the guy who thought PR grads were IMGs is plain wrong.

Be careful too about drawing conclusions about the Match from people's experiences a decade ago. I had yet to even matriculate into med school when that thread you linked was started. A lot has changed in the past decade, and for IMGs trying to come home for residency, it has not changed for the better.

 

[Law2Doc]

@IslandStyle808 ... I did not say Hawaii because most premeds know it is part of the US, but they usually think PR is a foreign country--not a commonwealth of the US...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/caribbean-vs-puerto-rico.260249/

Very very few people outside of the preallo board have this confusion, which is why most of us use "Caribbean" and "offshore" with impugnity and without specifying excepted islands.(and I note you had to go back 8 years to find an example thread...)

 

[demayette]

I don't think "most premeds" are unaware that PR is an American commonwealth. One would reasonably expect that most American college students learned some basic American history in high school. But regardless, for what we care about (getting into an American residency), it doesn't really matter if a few premeds are a bit deficient in their knowledge of geography and history. What matters is what residency PDs think of PR grads, not what premeds think of them. And as pointed out by others in the thread you linked, the guy who thought PR grads were IMGs is plain wrong.

Be careful too about drawing conclusions about the Match from people's experiences a decade ago. I had yet to even matriculate into med school when that thread you linked was started. A lot has changed in the past decade, and for IMGs trying to come home for residency, it has not changed for the better.

I am a US student, so I understand the match % for US seniors has not changed significantly... I am not too worried about myself matching in a couple of years as long as I can pass my boards (1st attempt) since I heard it's not extremely difficult for an AMG to match into primary care (FM)... I don't know too much about the matching rate for IMG; therefore, I can't comment on it... All I know that I have an US-IMG friend who could not match for 3 years because he failed step 1 on his first attempt... I think they should make it easier for US-IMG to match into primary care because tax payers finance most of these people education. I just don't get why they wouldn't let these people practice medicine when PA/NP are doing it with less education IMO... I guess that is a topic for another discussion...

 

[demayette]

Very very few people outside of the preallo board have this confusion, which is why most of us use "Caribbean" and "offshore" with impugnity and without specifying excepted islands.(and I note you had to go back 8 years to find an example thread...)

I agree with your overall point that people should be careful before heading to these offshore schools...

 

[QofQuimica]

I am a US student, so I understand the match % for US seniors has not changed significantly... I am not too worried about myself matching in a couple of years as long as I can pass my boards (1st attempt) since I heard it's not extremely difficult for an AMG to match into primary care (FM)... I don't know too much about the matching rate for IMG; therefore, I can't comment on it... All I know that I have an US-IMG friend who could not match for 3 years because he failed step 1 on his first attempt... I think they should make it easier for US-IMG to match into primary care because tax payers finance most of these people education. I just don't get why they wouldn't let these people practice medicine when PA/NP are doing it with less education IMO... I guess that is a topic for another discussion...

Well, what they're doing instead is expanding the number of US med schools and the size of their classes. The result is that most of the borderline but acceptable applicants who would have gone offshore in the past will now be able to attend a US school. In fact, in the very near future, we will have enough US med students graduating each year to fill every US residency slot. This massive expansion in the number of US seniors is the biggest reason why matching into a US residency is only going to continue to get harder for IMGs.

The PA/NP debate is, as you said, a whole 'nother discussion.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I am a US student, so I understand the match % for US seniors has not changed significantly... I am not too worried about myself matching in a couple of years as long as I can pass my boards (1st attempt) since I heard it's not extremely difficult for an AMG to match into primary care (FM)... I don't know too much about the matching rate for IMG; therefore, I can't comment on it... All I know that I have an US-IMG friend who could not match for 3 years because he failed step 1 on his first attempt... I think they should make it easier for US-IMG to match into primary care because tax payers finance most of these people education. I just don't get why they wouldn't let these people practice medicine when PA/NP are doing it with less education IMO... I guess that is a topic for another discussion...

Here is something you may like to read. However, don't know for sure if this applies to US-IMGs though or FMGs. I think it would be great if it did caught on.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...sicians-awaiting-governors-signature.1081521/

 

[Pre-Dr. H]

Caribbean is NOT a bad idea. I have a high GPA and if I do great on my MCAT I still plan on going to Caribbean. For many reasons: 1) The big 4 teach to the boards. They have a reputation every year scoring higher than most US medical schools. 2) Stress relief is great. It's sunny and warm all year. Lots of great activities on the island. 3) Getting a job as a Caribbean medical student is no longer a concern. The US is short 15,000 physicians and 90,000 in 10 years according to the AAMC. 4) The food there is amazing. I used to live in the Caribbean 14 years ago for two years. It's wonderful.

 

[Law2Doc]

Caribbean is NOT a bad idea. I have a high GPA and if I do great on my MCAT I still plan on going to Caribbean. For many reasons: 1) The big 4 teach to the boards. They have a reputation every year scoring higher than most US medical schools. 2) Stress relief is great. It's sunny and warm all year. Lots of great activities on the island. 3) Getting a job as a Caribbean medical student is no longer a concern. The US is short 15,000 physicians and 90,000 in 10 years according to the AAMC. 4) The food there is amazing. I used to live in the Caribbean 14 years ago for two years. It's wonderful.

The better trolls play it cool for a hundred posts or so before getting outed. You registered four months ago without ever posting and suddenly pop on to post six posts, all in the middle of the night, about how great the caribbean and Ireland are for you, a 36 yo with 5 kids. Please.

 

[Vince411]

I would not go the carribean route, it is not worth the investment, obtaining a residency is getting that much tougher---for example, in my home state of Michigan there are 2 new MD schools (CMU and WMU)--i'm sure there are new US schools in other states, which just goes to show that getting a residency is going to be even tougher in the future. In addition, the tuition is outrageous for the end product. Instead, I would just plan to take a couple 2- to re-take the science pre-reqs and get all As. In the end, a couple extra years would be worth it.

 

[jakeislove]

I thought the food sucked.

Getting a residency will become even more difficult.

Private loans have insane interest rates.

Weather during hurricane season was not nice.

Plenty of stress.

My main activity was studying. Can only recall doing a few cool things.

A lot of rotation slots (downstate) are getting filled by DOs.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I thought the food sucked.

Getting a residency will become even more difficult.

Private loans have insane interest rates.

Weather during hurricane season was not nice.

Plenty of stress.

My main activity was studying. Can only recall doing a few cool things.

A lot of rotation slots (downstate) are getting filled by DOs.

Seems to be what I've heard from some IMG's at far-flung rotation sites as well. Most important thing to remember in this debate is that those of you considering international programs can't really consider any of the wonderful anecdotes of "I"m at SABA and I matched NSG!", as the landscape is shifting really quickly, between increasing AMG slots, ACGME/AOA best-friendliness, etc. It is a different game for those enter the match 5 or so years from now as compared to the person who can say they matched today, or last year. A lot has changed, and will change, in those intervening years. None of it to the benefit of the IMG.

 

[jakeislove]

Seems to be what I've heard from some IMG's at far-flung rotation sites as well. Most important thing to remember in this debate is that those of you considering international programs can't really consider any of the wonderful anecdotes of "I"m at SABA and I matched NSG!", as the landscape is shifting really quickly, between increasing AMG slots, ACGME/AOA best-friendliness, etc. It is a different game for those enter the match 5 or so years from now as compared to the person who can say they matched today, or last year. A lot has changed, and will change, in those intervening years. None of it to the benefit of the IMG.

They're going to force AMG MDs into primary care.

 

[Pre-Dr. H]

The better trolls play it cool for a hundred posts or so before getting outed. You registered four months ago without ever posting and suddenly pop on to post six posts, all in the middle of the night, about how great the caribbean and Ireland are for you, a 36 yo with 5 kids. Please.

What are talking about? Troll? A friend of mine told me about this place. I was up late and responded. My response was real and truthful. And yes, I have 5 kids. I worked in business for 18 years and decided to go into medical school instead.