Are there many career opportunities in Tactical EM?

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DeadCactus

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Have some free time and wanted to explore this idea bit. Are there many career opportunities in Tactical EM?

No, I'm not interested in being a physician who is kicking down doors and shooting bad guys. (Though getting to join in on the training from time-to-time would be nice.)

But are there a lot of opportunities on the education side of things? Is it pretty easy to establish a career involving teaching military and police medics? Is it a reasonable goal to find an academic position where you work in the ED and are also run an educational program in Tactical EM?

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Tactical medicine is a pretty small community. I would suggest your local police service first and then work your way up. You can do things ranging from medical direction/training to being part of a breach team from everything from a local or state police agency all the way up to the federal government, including foreign breach teams.
 
I know that the police department often uses paramedics in the breach team but could an RRT with proper training fill in this role?
 
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I know that the police department often uses paramedics in the breach team but could an RRT with proper training fill in this role?

Getting shot at in real life=not cool

Either way, if I were one of those operators, there's no way I'd want an MD tagging up right behind me unless they were training and doing real life operations every day with me.

Don't get me wrong because I love this kinda stuff, but I'd be really skeptical unless you had done this all in a prior life . . .
 
No doc is going to be doing a breach unless he/she invests the time to train. It's too dangerous without it. The group I'm with requires five hours of training every month. You're allowed to miss one month and that's it. It happens on the same day every month and I know well in advance to schedule this day off.
 
I know that the police department often uses paramedics in the breach team but could an RRT with proper training fill in this role?

Nope. You'd need to have a paramedic cert so you can act as a physician extender - to be legally allowed to do whatever a qualified doc tells you.

Plus, clinically you'd need the paramedic skillset and then some additional qualifications, like chest tubes etc. Then theres a lot of other certifications you need. I remember hearing about some course called "care across the line" or something, where you learn to talk a cop through assessment and treatment over the radio (sorta like a 911 dispatcher). Its been a while for me.

Then theres all the tactical training.
 
Southerndoc, are you currently acting as a physician in a tactical medicine capacity? And am I misunderstanding your 5 hours a month comment? That seems like a very small amount of training for something like clearing a building.
 
Southerndoc, are you currently acting as a physician in a tactical medicine capacity? And am I misunderstanding your 5 hours a month comment? That seems like a very small amount of training for something like clearing a building.
Yes. 5 hours is sufficient for breach practice. (Keep in mind that doesn't include time on a firing range.)
 
I've had attendings and colleagues who train local SWAT to Secret Service to SEALs
 
Southern did you do any sort of a fellowship related to EMS or tactical EMS? This is something of great interest to me over several months, but as you said it is a small community and we don't have any TEMS providers at all, just basics on the team
 
Southern did you do any sort of a fellowship related to EMS or tactical EMS? This is something of great interest to me over several months, but as you said it is a small community and we don't have any TEMS providers at all, just basics on the team
No, I was a paramedic before medical school.
 
is there any accelerated programs for allied health care professionals to get their paramedic cert? Ive heard of fire departments letting RRTs and RNs functioning under their own certs and liscences on a rig so Im a bit confused here.
 
is there any accelerated programs for allied health care professionals to get their paramedic cert? Ive heard of fire departments letting RRTs and RNs functioning under their own certs and liscences on a rig so Im a bit confused here.

This post might get better responses as its own thread in the EMS forum. Would you like me to move it there for you?
 
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southerndoc: How did you get started? Sounds very interesting.
 
is there any accelerated programs for allied health care professionals to get their paramedic cert? Ive heard of fire departments letting RRTs and RNs functioning under their own certs and liscences on a rig so Im a bit confused here.



There are no accelerated Medic programs because NHTSA doesnt allow it. There are faster classes, which cram the two years of school into 11 months full-time.

Some states allow RRTs and RNs to work in EMS. They first MUST take the EMT-Basic course.

In the case of RNs - they must have EMT-Basic, one year of ER experience +/- CEN certification. Then they and do the Anesthesiology rotation with a paramedic school. Then they take the MICN course/internship, ACLS, PALS, and PHTLS. (google the acronyms if needed)

For RRTs - generally don't do the 911 thing. If they do, they work as an EMT-Basic. In EMS they do critical care. They need EMT-Basic certification, plus ACLS, PALS, and PHTLS. If they fly, a lot take the CFP exam, because you can take it without any formal coursework.

The one RRT I know that does EMS is also a critical care flight paramedic.

In Pennsylania, I think PAs can go through a similar route to work in EMS

So anyway. Any of the other allied health fields that work in EMS have to go for a lot of additional training.

The common denominator for RN/MICNs, RRTs that do EMS, and Paramedics as well, is that they ALL take the EMT-Basic course.
 
is there any accelerated programs for allied health care professionals to get their paramedic cert? Ive heard of fire departments letting RRTs and RNs functioning under their own certs and liscences on a rig so Im a bit confused here.

Jolly sums it up pretty well. As an RN, RRT, PA, etc, you are trained to work in a much more controlled clinical environment. Where I live, there are no programs allowing for allied healthcare providers to go through the paramedic program any faster than someone who went straight through EMS.

The state license as an RN or RRT does not include in your scope of practice the skill set required to work EMS, so you won't find one providing solo care on an ambo.
Edit: So noone gets the wrong impression, most nurses and RRT's have the basic skills to work the bus, it just may not be included in formal training. Mostly this applies to traumas - KEDs, hare splints, different methods of immobilization etc (at the same time there are many things they may be more proficient at)
 
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My good friend is a police officer. They have some physicians that like to come hang out with them for SWAT team training. In his opinion, (take it for what it's worth), the physicians don't perform as well as the paramedics. Physicians are so worried about history, treatment and advanced diagnostic measures that they forget about the basics (clog the holes, and get them the heck out of there).

I think physicians are allowed to participate for the additional insight they might occasionally provide in training sessions.

Could tactical medicine be a silly past-time/hobby for a practicing ER physician, who has found the ER a little less exciting than they wish, and wishes to renew the feeling of being worshipped at cocktail parties?

If you have found you hate the ER and are trying to find a way to supplement your income as a way to have to spend less time there, this isn't a good way.

If you get a kick out of it and have no expectations of personal reimbursement, it might rarely be an option.
 
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In my state, we have a Special Operations Team of Paramedics. The SOT Parameds are Intensive Care qualified who do additional training to perform high-risk rescue stuff and they also work closely the police depts. STAR (Special Tasks and Rescue) Group which is basically a different name for SWAT.

They also wear badass black uniforms that have Special Operations Team patches under the Ambulance Service logo patch and have a big reflective patch on the back that yells "RESCUE PARAMEDIC." That is sure to pick up the ladies :p
 
Have some free time and wanted to explore this idea bit. Are there many career opportunities in Tactical EM?

No, I'm not interested in being a physician who is kicking down doors and shooting bad guys. (Though getting to join in on the training from time-to-time would be nice.)

But are there a lot of opportunities on the education side of things? Is it pretty easy to establish a career involving teaching military and police medics? Is it a reasonable goal to find an academic position where you work in the ED and are also run an educational program in Tactical EM?

I don't know about easy but there are definitely opportunities. ACEP has a tactical medicine interest group and there are operational medicine fellowships. University of Georgia is one that comes to mind and I'm sure there are probably others. SEAL and Special Forces medics do clinical training in NYC. I think it's done under the auspices of the FDNY EMS Fellowship. If you look at places like the International School of Tactical Medicine in California you'll see that their faculty has quite a few physicians. If you contacted some of them I'm sure they'd be happy to offer some advice.
 
I don't know about easy but there are definitely opportunities. ACEP has a tactical medicine interest group and there are operational medicine fellowships. University of Georgia is one that comes to mind and I'm sure there are probably others. SEAL and Special Forces medics do clinical training in NYC. I think it's done under the auspices of the FDNY EMS Fellowship. If you look at places like the International School of Tactical Medicine in California you'll see that their faculty has quite a few physicians. If you contacted some of them I'm sure they'd be happy to offer some advice.

I have nothing to add to this. I just wanted to say that I think that's the first time I've seen a 10+ year badge on someone's SDN account. Nifty.
 
Southern did you do any sort of a fellowship related to EMS or tactical EMS? This is something of great interest to me over several months, but as you said it is a small community and we don't have any TEMS providers at all, just basics on the team
I can't speak for Southern, but I can tell ya that having spoken to well over a dozen Tactical Physicians, it appears that the vast majority do NOT have any formal fellowship training, be it in a Tactical-specific fellowship (GEMSS or JHU), or in an EMS Fellowship with tactical opportunities.

Interestingly enough, ABEM's decision this year to recognize EMS as a boarded specialty prompts the question about how they will tackle the requirement for TEMS experience in an EMS Fellowship (since it is part & parcel of EMS Medicine). My guess is with a scarce nature of active TEMS throughout the country, the requirement will be more based on Medical Direction rather than a primary provider.

Jolly sums it up pretty well. As an RN, RRT, PA, etc, you are trained to work in a much more controlled clinical environment. Where I live, there are no programs allowing for allied healthcare providers to go through the paramedic program any faster than someone who went straight through EMS.

The state license as an RN or RRT does not include in your scope of practice the skill set required to work EMS, so you won't find one providing solo care on an ambo.
Maybe I misunderstood this post, but to me it seems like you're saying as a doc, you'd need to go to EMT school (several months) to be able to become a Tactical and/or Prehospital Provider. Not quite so.

1) On a liability perspective, I'd say you need SOME type of formal pre-hospital training, because the second you make a mistake, the question asked will be, are you practicing within or beyond your scope of practice? And technically speaking, being that docs don't get any prehospital training (intrinsic to med school or residency), playing prehospital/tactical doc IS beyond your scope, and opens you up for liability. Which is why I've chosen to pursue a formal fellowship in EMS. Get the formal training, under supervision. And shortly (as mentioned above) you'll have a board certification behind your name to prove it.

2) On a practical level, as a physician, you possess a terminal degree, so you're automatically past the qualification of an EMT, Paramedic, RN, etc. So what many TEMS programs simply prefer (and some require) is that you enroll & complete the CONTOMS course, which earns you your EMT-T (EMT-Tactical) certification, recognized by the Dept. of Homeland Security as well as various other federal and national security/law enforcement/medical organizations. So you DON'T need months of EMT/Paramedic school to go through this.

3) Having said that, the same typa scenario (#s 1 & 2) applies to if you wanna carry a weapon/be a member of the entry team. Liability and realistically, you'd wanna be a law enforcement officer (go through the academy). And while few docs actually wanna be on the entry team, those that do, many of them are merely deputized officers (ie have not gone through the entire police academy); they've simply gone through SWAT school, go to the range with the team to maintain firearm competency, and complete X numbers/hours of SWAT/special ops training sessions with your local team/month or year. Having said that, there are a few who are sworn law enforcement officers as well.

My good friend is a police officer. They have some physicians that like to come hang out with them for SWAT team training. In his opinion, (take it for what it's worth), the physicians don't perform as well as the paramedics. Physicians are so worried about history, treatment and advanced diagnostic measures that they forget about the basics (clog the holes, and get them the heck out of there).
Couldn't agree with you more. We often lose sight of the big picture (stabilize and move) because we often work at the final stop in patient care (the hospital).

I think physicians are allowed to participate for the additional insight they might occasionally provide in training sessions.
And that some teams simply feel warm & fuzzy inside knowing there's an actual doc there. Plus, you are your own medical command, so there's no need to call in for Rxs, or when you reach a prompt @ a certain point in an EMS Protocol, etc. And there are a few procedures here & there that if you're a solid, proficient EM doc, you're gonna be the best at - and they're typically the most critical & life-saving procedures. That's not a knock on the medics, cuz they can certainly hold their own.

Could tactical medicine be a silly past-time/hobby for a practicing ER physician, who has found the ER a little less exciting than they wish, and wishes to renew the feeling of being worshipped at cocktail parties?

If you have found you hate the ER and are trying to find a way to supplement your income as a way to have to spend less time there, this isn't a good way.

If you get a kick out of it and have no expectations of personal reimbursement, it might rarely be an option.
For some of us, it provides a nice temporary departure from the hum & drum of daily ED life, with the perks of one heck of an exciting experience, while providing the opportunity to really make a difference in the most critical of stages. And you're right; it's def. not for extra cash haha.

My $0.02
 
loma linda had a pretty unique arrangement. they were very well connected with the county police and they had a pathway to become a deputy while doing residency. when i did a little research in the past, there were about 30 programs that had a tactical ems training component but only about 3-5 of them had a pathway to actually be a full fledged swat member.
 
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Could tactical medicine be a silly past-time/hobby for a practicing ER physician, who has found the ER a little less exciting than they wish, and wishes to renew the feeling of being worshipped at cocktail parties?

Any doctor who is willingly going to put themselves in a position where they may get shot at, when they can easily have a much safer work environment has got to be just a little bit nuts.
 
Any doctor who is willingly going to put themselves in a position where they may get shot at, when they can easily have a much safer work environment has got to be just a little bit nuts.

A guy a year ahead of me made his own path; he made inroads into the Durham Police Department (North Carolina) and went on A LOT of training, and a few call-outs, with Durham SWAT.

He then did the GEMSS fellowship at UTSW, and is now the medical director of the Dallas PD. I would guess that he is now sworn, but I don't know if he was sworn as a resident in NC. If he had a badge and a gun, he never let us know.

He also got on national TV after "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" did a house for a lieutenant that got shot in the neck on a call-out. He and a fellow fellow were on that call and saved the guy's life after the GSW.
 
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Any doctor who is willingly going to put themselves in a position where they may get shot at, when they can easily have a much safer work environment has got to be just a little bit nuts.
Which is why a lot of docs only go as far as the warm zone, and reserve being on the entry team and entering the hot zone for the medic on the team.

Besides, you aren't really practicing any medicine in the hot zone. The best medicine in the hot zone is neutralizing the threat (kill the bad guy). At most, you may slap on a tourniquet, but other than that your focus is a) kill bad guy, and b) get the wounded the heck outta there so you can administer care in the warm zone.
 
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