Are there restrictions on FMG's?

[mafiacat8]

I am all for MD, DO, MD-IMG students for getting the residencies-basically American citizens, but it seems unfair for FMG to match without others matching first (since it's our tax dollars). I want to learn more about our GME system, what kind of restrictions are currently placed on accepting FMG's? How do they choose a FMG over an IMG/DO/MD? How do you think this will change with the merger?

Approximately ~7k apply a year, and about 1/2 or more match! That's a lot of spots that are given to non-US citizens. In the past, GME has had many leftover slots, however, with the rapid expansion of medical schools (MD and DO) residency spots are getting quite low in abundance. Do you think that the US government will place restrictions on FMG's? What are your thoughts on them participating in GME?

No hate to foreigners who want to move to this country/get an education here! It's just that US Citizens pay a premium price of $250,000+ to attend medical school here (not even including undergrad debt) and contribute to the tax system, it is only fair that we get the first choice at residencies.

Thoughts?

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[Animalcules]

Life is not fair.

The end.

What taxes have you paid in college and med school?

 

[mafiacat8]

Life is not fair.

The end.

What taxes have you paid in college and med school?

I won’t entertain your question, as I don’t need to defend my opinions to you. If you have relevant input please share that.

 

[GoSpursGo]

This is a well-worn topic that you can easily find lots of opinions on without starting a whole new thread.

The short answer is that the US grads either: 1) aim for a specialty/programs that they have their heart set on but they aren't actually competitive for, or 2) just aren't as good as the FMGs. Why should a program accept a US grad who got a 200 on step 1 over an FMG who's been practicing in his/her home country for 5 years with a 240?

Ultimately, don't worry about other people. If you keep your head down, pass all your licensing exams on your first try, and apply to realistic programs in a realistic specialty, you will match.

 

[cf817]

I am all for MD, DO, MD-IMG students for getting the residencies-basically American citizens, but it seems unfair for FMG to match without others matching first (since it's our tax dollars). I want to learn more about our GME system, what kind of restrictions are currently placed on accepting FMG's? How do they choose a FMG over an IMG/DO/MD? How do you think this will change with the merger?

Approximately ~7k apply a year, and about 1/2 or more match! That's a lot of spots that are given to non-US citizens. In the past, GME has had many leftover slots, however, with the rapid expansion of medical schools (MD and DO) residency spots are getting quite low in abundance. Do you think that the US government will place restrictions on FMG's? What are your thoughts on them participating in GME?

No hate to foreigners who want to move to this country/get an education here! It's just that US Citizens pay a premium price of $250,000+ to attend medical school here (not even including undergrad debt) and contribute to the tax system, it is only fair that we get the first choice at residencies.

Thoughts?

FMGs historically and currently have been filling spots in primary care positions that most AMGs feel are beneath them. As stated earlier many AMGs also fancy themselves more competitive applicants that they might actually be and then are shocked when they don't get the derm/ortho/ENT/optho spot they were after. Most who didn't match then will reapply and likely match into a more realistic spot the following year. As for restrictions, it's pretty common knowledge that the FMGs are not to even bother with applying to the derm/ortho etc spots, because even with a 280 step 1 they aren't going to be considered. Also many FMGs as stated earlier have been practicing physicians previously and some programs seek these types of candidates out because they have come to appreciate/depend on that kind of experience with their program. They tend to be extremely hard working, don't have a sense of entitlement and many programs find those attributes more important than a borderline applicant with an attitude problem who just happens to be an AMG. So take those things into consideration. FMGs will also be paying taxes on the residency salaries and attending salaries after, as well as contributing to the solution of the growing void in primary care physicians, especially in rural areas.

 

[gutonc]

I won’t entertain your question, as I don’t need to defend my opinions to you. If you have relevant input please share that.

The first 2 lines of the post pretty much answered the question though.

 

[rokshana]

I am all for MD, DO, MD-IMG students for getting the residencies-basically American citizens, but it seems unfair for FMG to match without others matching first (since it's our tax dollars). I want to learn more about our GME system, what kind of restrictions are currently placed on accepting FMG's? How do they choose a FMG over an IMG/DO/MD? How do you think this will change with the merger?

Approximately ~7k apply a year, and about 1/2 or more match! That's a lot of spots that are given to non-US citizens. In the past, GME has had many leftover slots, however, with the rapid expansion of medical schools (MD and DO) residency spots are getting quite low in abundance. Do you think that the US government will place restrictions on FMG's? What are your thoughts on them participating in GME?

No hate to foreigners who want to move to this country/get an education here! It's just that US Citizens pay a premium price of $250,000+ to attend medical school here (not even including undergrad debt) and contribute to the tax system, it is only fair that we get the first choice at residencies.

Thoughts?

Every year...
You didn’t match because of something with your application, interviews, or ROL ...some FMG did not take your spot.

 

[Animalcules]

I won’t entertain your question, as I don’t need to defend my opinions to you. If you have relevant input please share that.

This was my input.

It sounds as if you feel the world owes you.

You are wrong.

 

[mafiacat8]

This was my input.

It sounds as if you feel the world owes you.

You are wrong.

I don't feel that the world owes me, don't take what my views are as a personal affront to your character, if you are a FMG. I DO feel that the US government owes me, as a tax paying American citizen, a higher consideration than a FMG for a spot that I helped pay for (as well as all other American citizens).

 

[rokshana]

I don't feel that the world owes me, don't take what my views are as a personal affront to your character, if you are a FMG. I DO feel that the US government owes me, as a tax paying American citizen, a higher consideration than a FMG for a spot that I helped pay for (as well as all other American citizens).

You do realize there are I/FMGs that are American citizens, paid taxes(and actually paid taxes not their parents paying taxes)...if you are a mediocre med student that can’t get a spot, no one “owes” you a spot.
There are plenty of things that my taxes pay for that I don’t use...public school education (private schools, private colleges, etc...public assistance such as Medicare and Medicaid...getting a residency spot is no different.

Every year we see this type of post...usually from someone who that though it would be no problem for their bottom quartile of the class with middling LoRs who applied to 5 places to match their number 1.

There are already tangible and intangible restrictions on I/FMGs as it is...if that I/FMG got a spot over you, it’s because the programs thought they were a leaps and bounds better applicant than you...

Maybe instead of looking at that matched I/FMG as the scapegoat, you should look to see what was lacking in your application and strive to fix it over the next year...because if
You don’t , nothing will be different for you on next year’s match.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I don't feel that the world owes me, don't take what my views are as a personal affront to your character, if you are a FMG. I DO feel that the US government owes me, as a tax paying American citizen, a higher consideration than a FMG for a spot that I helped pay for (as well as all other American citizens).

I think you misunderstand the point of spending tax dollars on residency programs--it's not about making sure that there are jobs for the 1% who went to med school, it's about making sure that the other 99% of taxpayers are being taken care of by competent, well-trained doctors.

As said in other posts above, the system is already massively in favor of US-MD trained applicants. Any FMG who manages to match when the system is so weighted against them unquestionably earned it.

 

[deleted480308]

I don't feel that the world owes me, don't take what my views are as a personal affront to your character, if you are a FMG. I DO feel that the US government owes me, as a tax paying American citizen, a higher consideration than a FMG for a spot that I helped pay for (as well as all other American citizens).

Exactly how much federal income tax have you paid so far in life?

Either way, it’s a competition. If you can’t beat some med student from guatemala despite the clear bias in favor of us med students then it’s time to self reflect a bit. Give a break down of your stats, application strategy (specialty/numbers/interviews) and we can maybe help

 

[differentiating]

Exactly how much federal income tax have you paid so far in life?

Either way, it’s a competition. If you can’t beat some med student from guatemala despite the clear bias in favor of us med students then it’s time to self reflect a bit. Give a break down of your stats, application strategy (specialty/numbers/interviews) and we can maybe help

Judging from the OP’s post history, they probably haven’t even applied to residency yet... they applied to med school in the 2017-2018 cycle.

 

[Super Turrican]

I graduated med school in 2009. Ten years have gone by. What you realize ideally in Med school and sometimes shortly after is that everything that we are ALLOWED to do, is to benefit PATIENTS.

The medical board of your state is there not to license docs, but to PROTECT THE PUBLIC form undertrained / inadequate / dangerous physicians.

Likewise residency training programs are there to provide the best grads for THEIR COMMUNITY specially in state sponsored schools. In no mission or vision of any institution you'd see it to be "to pay in kind to the US grads who took a gamble on us".

So if the best doc trained in whereisitstan but has 285 in all steps and 25 authored papers, has an international leadership position and is member of an editorial board of an indexed publication and upon interview is of good character, displays professionalism and is interested. Next interviewee is the best US grad comes with a 235 (good grades) in step 1 and 2 with nothing under their belt other than the most likely to succeed from highschool and a scholarship from FFA. Interview goes well seems interested, professional, enthusiastic and genuine. Who to pick, you tell me?

Well that is what the lay of the land is now for incoming grads. How do I know? I see them.

You'll see that all the instituons are about the public and not us clearly when you read the disciplinary actions of state boards. Those are generally not reviewable in court (although you can appeal to the board itself, good luck), they do not need to find you guilty of anything criminal, or illegal. Just that... You failed, or appear to have failed, or are likely if tested to fail their standards... And you're out, just because they do not care about the doc but the public.

In all it's about the public. The best doc will get in. Be the best, or middle of the pack. If you're near the tail end, there may be not enough chairs when the music stops. This is very rare for US grads, but not unheard of, less than 100 per year, nation wide.

 

[AncientMD]

I don't feel that the world owes me, don't take what my views are as a personal affront to your character, if you are a FMG. I DO feel that the US government owes me, as a tax paying American citizen, a higher consideration than a FMG for a spot that I helped pay for (as well as all other American citizens).

I'm a non US IMG, I have been working and pay my tax for the last 12 years, I also have additional income from outside of the US (from a country with dual tax treaty with the US), and I chose to pay my tax in the US (not in the country who gave me my income) from those income. Does that mean I should get higher priority than you?