Ask a PGY-1 at a top 10 anything (experience w/ admissions)

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Wolf3D

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Hi all, I've got a couple of relatively slow shifts coming up (including a 28-hour one....) and I just rediscovered this website so figured I might make myself useful. Back in my day it wasn't nearly as bustling as it is now, happy to see the site still thriving.

I'm currently doing my preliminary year, moving on to my actual residency next year. I've been lucky enough to do all my schooling/training at top private institutions, so my viewpoints will be biased in that respect, no doubt. I was involved with my med school admissions committee as an MS3-4. Did not go straight through. I'll drop in as often as the patients allow me to. I think that's the basics, shoot away!

EDIT: I am in no way the most qualified person to speak about admissions. 2 years experience while spending half the time on rotations/interviews makes me an expert not. I'm willing to share what I know, though, from what is effectively still a med student's perspective + some time to dwell on it.

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Derm?
 
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LOL the tags on this thread...
Thanks for doing this by the way!
A few questions: Did you do research in medical school? If so, when did you get involved, how productive was it, and how did it help you in terms of matching into your desired program? If you did not do research, what else did you do to make yourself competitive? (Sorry to ask medical student-specific questions on your pre-med thread, hopefully you are still willing to share some insight)
 
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im sorry for my ignorance, what do you mean by top 10 PGY-1?
 
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Hi all, I've got a couple of relatively slow shifts coming up (including a 28-hour one....) and I just rediscovered this website so figured I might make myself useful. Back in my day it wasn't nearly as bustling as it is now, happy to see the site still thriving.

I'm currently doing my preliminary year, moving on to my actual residency next year. I've been lucky enough to do all my schooling/training at top 10 institutions, so my viewpoints will be biased in that respect, no doubt. I was involved with my med school admissions committee as an MS3-4. Did not go straight through. I'll drop in as often as the patients allow me to. I think that's the basics, shoot away!

Are you envious of those in the top 1?
 
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What specialty?

How is "top-10" determined for residency programs?
Rads. Sorry, I mean top 10 as in the overall institution, not the residency program
 
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What would you say was the most important thing you learned during clinical years? Was there anything you wish you would have learned/done during clinicals that you didn't? Thanks!
 
How big of a role did pre-clinical grades turn out to play when being selected for residency (assuming you didn't fail any courses)?
 
MS-1 here. What would advice would you give yourself as a first year?
 
LOL the tags on this thread...
Thanks for doing this by the way!
A few questions: Did you do research in medical school? If so, when did you get involved, how productive was it, and how did it help you in terms of matching into your desired program? If you did not do research, what else did you do to make yourself competitive? (Sorry to ask medical student-specific questions on your pre-med thread, hopefully you are still willing to share some insight)
The intern life is real. Be prepared.

It's really hard not to do research when your school is a powerhouse and doesn't shut up about opportunities to do it. I had 2 group paper pubs from college work and added like 4 more (including a perspectives piece), about half were dumb luck that they ever got published. They weren't rads related and people didn't particularly care. I did a dual degree so 2 of them came from independent stuff I did out of related interest (one was this crazy paper I had been working on since pre-MS1...) that weren't science-y at all, the others could be counted as public health, I guess. I tried my hand at rads research during MS-2 but it is just so low-yield and confusing when you don't know anything so I dropped it pretty quickly and PDs were quite sympathetic to my explanation. Maybe it was the way I awkwardly laughed it off when confronted with my lack of rads research.

My schtick about research is that instead of seeing it as a hoop to jump through (as I did in college and throughout most of MS-1), treat it as a unique opportunity to learn about some real cool ****. There's something for everyone out there since most med students are motivated and intellectually curious. If you really can't find anything to move you, that's a good sign you should be looking at county/community residencies to shift your focus away. Or you're just lazy, IDK
 
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I think he means he is an intern in a top 10 program
Reiterating that there's no really such thing as a top 10 residency program since it's all about reputation within the field. I meant that the general universities/institutions I've been at are large private academic shops
 
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Are you envious of those in the top 1?
No, because at some point I was a part of the top 1 ;) They eat, sleep, and **** just like I do :mooning:

wow there sure are a lot of smileys available now...damn
 
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With your experience during M3 and M4 working with admissions, what % weight do you give stuff in the application/interview. I guess what I'm trying to articulate is, is interview weighed pretty heavily in the acceptance decision (i.e. 30%, 40% etc), gpa, ECs, etc.

I know it's different from school to school, just trying to get an idea of what weight various stuff holds (interview and ECs in particular)
 
What would you say was the most important thing you learned during clinical years? Was there anything you wish you would have learned/done during clinicals that you didn't? Thanks!
like many present/future rads residents, the most important thing i learned during the clinical years is that i don't want to be responsible for the sniffly kid/adult/grandma or their relatives. i care immensely for their well-being but i am not fit to be on the front lines dealing with it. i don't know how the EM folks do it, it gives me nightmares. i would say for anyone, the most important thing to try to learn and see if what kind of patient interaction environment you want to be in. even rads has interaction, just not as constant (btw path is the key if you srs never want talk to pts again). this goes beyond the specialty sometimes and could be answered during residency of course, but earlier saves a lot of indecision and heartaches.

i wish i would've probed the clinicians in power more on why they were proceeding in a certain way, especially with their orders. the only real difference between an intern and MS-4 is that i can put in orders myself without having to run to find the attending or resident for approval first. it's easy as a med student to listen to the differential and discussion but not understand or know 100% what exact steps are being taken and in what order. it's a fine line between being an annoying gunner and asking the right questions, but i wish i would've asked more, especially in the MS-4 electives when most people are in lala land worrying about kissing PDs' asses, finally hooking up with the ortho bros, etc.
 
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How big of a role did pre-clinical grades turn out to play when being selected for residency (assuming you didn't fail any courses)?
the only time i spent discussing pre-clinical stuff on the interview trail was when a PD asked about my less than stellar performance in some doctoring skills course, where my grade was significantly depressed because my preceptor wouldn't stfu about how "my compassion face" didn't look all that compassionate. since this was rads we ended up having a laugh about how some people just have resting bitch faces and there's not much we can do about it. like it's not my fault i always look like Clint Eastwood was just told his son wants to spend his career collecting bowling pins

TLDR: rads people are awkward and no one cares about grades. However, please study (see post below on MS-1)
 
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MS-1 here. What would advice would you give yourself as a first year?
Just study that ****. don't bitch and complain about how you don't think such and such is relevant because you've pigeonholed yourself into PC, ortho, peds, EM, whatever. (ok maybe except embryology. it literally does not matter.) do not stress about hitting all 90s but do not think that barely passing is ok. if your teacher sucks then find a study group or learn a self-study method. studying for the boards overkill is a waste of time; they are meant to synthesize, not serve as primary education. the point is to see how everything connects together yes, but if you don't know details then good luck with that. don't join 400 interest groups. sleep 8 hours every day (actually i was on point with this) because you will never get so much sleep time in the next 5-7 years. if you are interested in research, think about what topic has made you want to wake up for lecture earlier than normal and start exploring your interests from there. if you're not interested in research, ask yourself if it's because you're lazy or you really are just not excited by anything (which would be sad :cryi: ) if you're ok with premarital copulation then get a good amount of it (consensual of course) because it helps your studying game. oh yeah and like i said before, no one cares about pre-clinical grades. the classes are there so that you learn science or else you will be a dumbo in the clinical years

beyond MS-1 i have to say this: never study for Step 2 CS. nobody ever fails lol (kidding, like 2% fail but that's their fault for playing on their phones all throughout MS-3)
 
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With your experience during M3 and M4 working with admissions, what % weight do you give stuff in the application/interview. I guess what I'm trying to articulate is, is interview weighed pretty heavily in the acceptance decision (i.e. 30%, 40% etc), gpa, ECs, etc.

I know it's different from school to school, just trying to get an idea of what weight various stuff holds (interview and ECs in particular)
here's how it worked at my med school. i am oversimplifying because 1) trying to get all the intricacies is impossible and 2) i don't think it's particularly helpful for anyone to be fully informed about how ONE school did stuff.

everyone had 2 interviews. after everything is boiled down (i.e., after presentation of the conversation and the PQs the interviewers gleaned), they each say yea or nay. 2 nays and you're toast because no one has time to dwell. 2 yeas and you made your way to be ranked by someone (more later). 1 yea, 1 nay? Lord have mercy. this is when those extensive discussions and arguments between 50-year-olds start. i won't bore you with the details because every cookie is different, but eventually you land with the 2 yeas or 2 nays pile. i would divvy up our post-interview piles generally as 30/50/20 (YY/NN/YN)

at this point, we almost never discussed grades anymore unless it was someone a member was "taking a chance on" to interview and had borderline stats that made people concerned about ability to study (like 3.4, 31 MCAT stuff). it was all about activities, projected interest in school resources, PQs from the letters, so on.

after you're through, you are ranked by the committee or a subportion of the committee. there are multiple rank lists going around and i had no interest in figuring out the rhyme or reason behind it because it's the dark craft of the dean to decide. sometimes we would convene to decide who would be ranked where and those discussions were usually about PQs and "demonstrated potential to become someone influential who would make the school look good" (not a direct quote obviously). after that the Dean decides how many from each rank list to take and where to set the cut off for waitlist. i do not know much about this last step of the process because i didn't have enough time to care during MS-3/4. to preempt the question, i do believe some people are still rejected from the rank lists but no idea how many.
 
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Did you ever beat Mecha-Hitler?
Hell ****ing yeah. Mecha Hitler taught me my first German word when his robot suit melted: SCHEISS! (it's not hard to guess what it meant) Blowing his brains out and watching him melt are top memories of middle school in the 90s.

But holy **** Hans Grosse firing at me will forever be burned into my retina (hence the profile gif). Anyone playing Episode 1, Level 9 without Internet spoilers has no frigging idea what is waiting behind the single door on the level and then all of sudden poor BJ's brains are blasted out. My first time I hadn't saved since level 7 and didn't know about the secret with ammo and health so I HAD TO PLAY IT OVER wtf. Freaking savage for a game in those days, made every kid piss their pants. He also says guten Tag (good day) which is a total Clint Eastwood-like dick move and oh man, it hurt
 
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Yeah, game was beast.
Also 10/10 profile picture. I snorted and my attending asked wtf is so funny about charting so i told him to stuff it and he left to check on the sniffly 30-yo

Also i think it's time i dual boot Wolf on my Mac again tonight. Need to suck some Nazi blood
 
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What kinds of things are written in the interview write-up that gets sent to admissions?
 
What kinds of things are written in the interview write-up that gets sent to admissions?
I've never seen one of those notes because they're not relevant to committee meetings where the interviewer presents the applicant to us and gives a yea/nay vote
 
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Would you mind describing a few small but important things that made a difference in your efficiency as an M1-4?
 
How did you come up with your plan to study for step 1?

What's your most embarrassing moment as a 3rd year?
 
No, because at some point I was a part of the top 1 ;) They eat, sleep, and **** just like I do :mooning:

wow there sure are a lot of smileys available now...damn


Do you think non top 1 docs are qualified?
 
Hi all, I've got a couple of relatively slow shifts coming up (including a 28-hour one....) and I just rediscovered this website so figured I might make myself useful. Back in my day it wasn't nearly as bustling as it is now, happy to see the site still thriving.

I'm currently doing my preliminary year, moving on to my actual residency next year. I've been lucky enough to do all my schooling/training at top 10 institutions, so my viewpoints will be biased in that respect, no doubt. I was involved with my med school admissions committee as an MS3-4. Did not go straight through. I'll drop in as often as the patients allow me to. I think that's the basics, shoot away!

Who you voting for president?
 
Um people who do prelims instead of the cushier transitional years are not really "top" anything. You are some categorical IM senior's scut monkey. And residencies aren't ranked anywhere usefully anyhow. So the premise of this thread is flawed. If you have to pat yourself on the back as top anything at this stage, that's kind of sad.
 
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Thanks for doing this!

How much of a benefit do you think being at a top tier medical school had on your clinical education and residency competitiveness?
(for context: I'm currently trying to chose between a highly ranked med school and a low ranked school where I felt I was a much better fit.)
 
How are you doing 28 hour calls? Did you get randomized to the non-16 hour arm of the trial?
 
Can you describe what the application review process is like from the time an applicant completes his/her application to the time he/she receives a decision?
 
here's how it worked at my med school. i am oversimplifying because 1) trying to get all the intricacies is impossible and 2) i don't think it's particularly helpful for anyone to be fully informed about how ONE school did stuff.

everyone had 2 interviews. after everything is boiled down (i.e., after presentation of the conversation and the PQs the interviewers gleaned), they each say yea or nay. 2 nays and you're toast because no one has time to dwell. 2 yeas and you made your way to be ranked by someone (more later). 1 yea, 1 nay? Lord have mercy. this is when those extensive discussions and arguments between 50-year-olds start. i won't bore you with the details because every cookie is different, but eventually you land with the 2 yeas or 2 nays pile. i would divvy up our post-interview piles generally as 30/50/20 (YY/NN/YN)

at this point, we almost never discussed grades anymore unless it was someone a member was "taking a chance on" to interview and had borderline stats that made people concerned about ability to study (like 3.4, 31 MCAT stuff). it was all about activities, projected interest in school resources, PQs from the letters, so on.

after you're through, you are ranked by the committee or a subportion of the committee. there are multiple rank lists going around and i had no interest in figuring out the rhyme or reason behind it because it's the dark craft of the dean to decide. sometimes we would convene to decide who would be ranked where and those discussions were usually about PQs and "demonstrated potential to become someone influential who would make the school look good" (not a direct quote obviously). after that the Dean decides how many from each rank list to take and where to set the cut off for waitlist. i do not know much about this last step of the process because i didn't have enough time to care during MS-3/4. to preempt the question, i do believe some people are still rejected from the rank lists but no idea how many.


Maybe this is a stupid question, but was is "PQ"?
 
Um people who do prelims instead of the cushier transitional years are not really "top" anything. You are some categorical IM senior's scut monkey. And residencies aren't ranked anywhere usefully anyhow. So the premise of this thread is flawed. If you have to pat yourself on the back as top anything at this stage, that's kind of sad.
You're correct. Again, I never said that my prelim was a top anything, just that I've done my schooling at these kind of institutions so people can know where I'm coming from with my answers. I even clarified above for premeds that residencies aren't ranked. Also I didn't want a cushier TY located in some butthole county before picking up and moving back cross-country again
lol @ prelim at a top 10.

Sorry, but that is hilarious.

"Look at me, unverified account created 3 days ago, I spent time at a top 10!"
ok I guess I broke some studentdoctor rule here by giving details about myself...regardless I'm sure you can appreciate the value of being upfront about what your background is so people can interpret your thoughts/perspective accordingly. I for one think there's a sizable difference between how people approach admissions-related things in particular at research-intensive private schools (i.e., "top") than at others. Sorry if I broke some forum rule or something. Yes I am a scut prelim but I chose this because I wanted my ass kicked to learn stuff
 
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Would you mind describing a few small but important things that made a difference in your efficiency as an M1-4?
Sleep is the most important thing for efficiency. doesn't matter if it's for your next block exam, getting pimped in the PICU, studying for shelves, everything. Budget as much time as you can for sleep and you will see your performance rise dramatically. I don't think I did anything particularly different when i was on the wards as opposed to in the classroom. Biggest thing would be during pre-clinicals to find a study strategy early on that allows the content to stick with you and stick to that strategy no matter what happens with PBLs, your own study group, what people are saying. A lot of people tried to change their study habits because of what they picked up from friends or study groups and oftentimes it backfired rather than help. Seek out support early if you have trouble finding a rhythm, especially if it's a shortened preclinical that is all the rage now. During the clinical years I can't stress how important making notes after your day is. I am a "in one ear, out the other" kinda guy so i wrote down as much relevant information as possible at the end of every day, like stuff i got pimped on, descriptive pt details, DDx train of thought, stuff I was criticized on (presentation too skimpy, too long, forgot to go XYZ), sometimes even details about the attendings/residents that I learned so I can try to keep names, faces, habits together. Immensely important and flipping through some of these notes were a huge boon to study for the CK come during early MS-4
 
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How did you come up with your plan to study for step 1?

What's your most embarrassing moment as a 3rd year?
We had a step 1 studying plan thing that circulated among the students so I basically adapted that to my own study schedule (i.e., shrunk it from 8 weeks to 5 weeks because I had a vacation planned for the half of the dedicated study period lol oops). It wasn't anything special, just the standard like UWorld, Kaplan, Qmax, First Aid, splashes of Goljan when Robbins wouldn't stfu for hours (which is most of the time as you know). I called myself the "question monster" for the most of the month and basically did as many questions under pressure as I could and looked up the stuff I got wrong and put it into an entire study guide which ended up being like 20-25 pgs when I was done. Step 1 is a question game, sure there's a lot of content but you should try to blow through as many qbanks as your sanity can handle is what I found to have worked the best

I plead the 5th on the second question. heh
 
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Thanks for doing this!

How much of a benefit do you think being at a top tier medical school had on your clinical education and residency competitiveness?
(for context: I'm currently trying to chose between a highly ranked med school and a low ranked school where I felt I was a much better fit.)
Impact on clinical education was probably minimal. As long as the main hospital isn't like a 150-bed shop or something you will be ok during medical school. Like i said previously, i think it's hugely important to try to get a feel for what kind of environment you want to be in during MS-3/4, so make sure the school has many rotation sites to explore in different settings, but i think most of the schools meet this criteria these days already.. There are good and bad preceptors and attendings everywhere and it's not like you'll really get to know who's good or bad when picking a school.

For residency, whole different ball game. Medicine is one of the most meritocratic fields out there but remember that everyone's merit is at quite a high level when it comes time for apps. This i think is where many people's thinking goes wrong, that because it's so meritocratic that softs like school rank or prestige don't matter. It matters because there are so many people performing at a high level that PDs and senior residents start looking for some sort of way to separate out all the 250s/240s with 1 pub who are applying. There are PDs who don't even look at an app if it's not above a certain cutoff (say, 235 for DR) with a certain pedigree. (This is not typical, i'm just saying) Now, you shouldn't care about all this as a premed who is picking a school for the next 4 years, but the elite tend to feed the elite. I haven't met my full rads class yet but from the residents I have met, the elite school representation is overwhelming and kinda shocking

The real contribution of a top tier medical school is really the support and resources they sort of just chuck at you like they'll never run out (..because they really won't with the tuition we paid lol). Constant reminders of this fellowship, that funding source, this lab looking for people and that chief starting some exposure program. I wouldn't have anything close to 4 pubs if i weren't at a place that constantly drove me to think about research questions deeply and see that there was something in it for me to learn on top of making myself more competitive (learning is so much more important btw). I know of plenty of schools who'll give you lots of flack if you say you wanted to do a dual degree that's not an MPH or research master's, but i got help from the med admissions office who hooked me up with admissions from the corresponding program at my university to help me with my apps (I did an away dual degree). I ended up getting into every single program I applied to and my GPA was pretty subpar at those programs because I kinda rode the MD holistic train to med school haha. When i look back I really think it's this subjective "support" portion that really made it worth it, plus the research encouragement and bright genius minds you'll get to work with.

This is not to say that you won't get this at other schools and idk if you will because i only attended 1 school obviously, but when I speak to other residents about their med school, this is the thing that stood out to me where i felt i got the better end of the deal when they didn't. What i feel like i was short-changed on was the 1) the cost and 2) lack of exposure to non-academic environments. Would've liked to spend more time at a community shop to see how they do things, but academia wants to breed academia by and large so it can be difficult getting that different perspective.

At the end of the day, you need to decide what cost the top school is worth it and why that is. If after second look you still feel like you don't like the higher ranked school because you don't jive with the campus culture, city, students, please don't go. I had classmates who chose the prestige for prestige and it took up until early MS-2 to slide into things and it's just unnecessary heartache and damn it was tough to see. Cost is huge and i would say if there's a >70k difference, go the cheap route and don't look back. You need to tweak this number accordingly, e.g. i knew i wanted a dual degree so i had to make sure i budgeted the space for the additional debt in case i didn't get any support (turns out i got some moolah so it was ok)
 
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How are you doing 28 hour calls? Did you get randomized to the non-16 hour arm of the trial?
Yup. It's literally inhumane. In total there's quite a number of us here, at least 30ish in medicine alone. I can't feel my fingers during morning rounds on hour 20. Two weeks ago I walked straight into a stretcher (the long way, not short side) because I just didn't see it. This study better be widely publicized with some meaningful results.
 
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but was is "PQ"?
Sorry, didn't realize I didn't define it. It stands for "personal qualities," so stuff like communication, interpersonal skills, leadership, ability to adapt, etc. Arguably the most subjective judgment every applicant faces from the committee, mostly the interviewers
 
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Rads. Sorry, I mean top 10 as in the overall institution, not the residency program. Though the actual residency is about the same

Do you think that pulling statistics out of your ass like that diminishes your credibility as some sort of admissions "expert" in this thread?
 
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Do you think that pulling statistics out of your ass like that diminishes your credibility as some sort of admissions "expert" in this thread?
Huh? I am not an expert. Any attending who sits on committee has way more knowledge and experience than I could hope to have. I introduced myself terribly, yes, I know that already, I apologize to this community.

And no, i don't believe this diminishes my credibility in honestly trying to give some advice out. I wrote a couple of bad posts while tired on call, I'm sorry jeez
 
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Huh? I am not an expert. Any attending who sits on committee has way more knowledge and experience than I could hope to have. I introduced myself terribly, yes, I know that already, I apologize to this community.

And no, i don't believe this diminishes my credibility in honestly trying to give some advice out. I wrote a couple of bad posts while tired on call, I'm sorry jeez
I appreciate your perspective (better than some of a my fellow premeds!!). Thanks for doing this.
 
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You are the man. I can't believe the number of haterz in this thread
 
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Do you think that pulling statistics out of your ass like that diminishes your credibility as some sort of admissions "expert" in this thread?
Are you telling me there isn't a BCS-like ranking system of residency programs?
You are the man. I can't believe the number of haterz in this thread
They're not haters. They're physicians who were perturbed by the thread title. If you've been on sdn long enough, you'd understand why.
 
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Are you telling me there isn't a BCS-like ranking system of residency programs?

They're not haters. They're physicians who were perturbed by the thread title. If you've been on sdn long enough, you'd understand why.
The closest we have is Doximity but no one cares about it, few even know of it. Word of mouth trumps all in this realm. In fact, more often than not physicians do not like to "rank" residencies, which seems to be the nerve I've tripped up here, and again, that was not my intention at all.
 
OP is such a bro.
I would like the record to show that I do not lift.
<----- Hans Grosse does tho, look at those pecs with the double chain guns
 
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I'm currently doing my preliminary year, moving on to my actual residency next year. I've been lucky enough to do all my schooling/training at top private institutions, so my viewpoints will be biased in that respect, no doubt. I was involved with my med school admissions committee as an MS3-4. Did not go straight through.

EDIT: I am in no way the most qualified person to speak about admissions. 2 years experience while spending half the time on rotations/interviews makes me an expert not. I'm willing to share what I know, though, from what is effectively still a med student's perspective + some time to dwell on it.

Reiterating that there's no really such thing as a top 10 residency program since it's all about reputation within the field. I meant that the general universities/institutions I've been at are large private academic shops

Are you telling me there isn't a BCS-like ranking system of residency programs?

They're not haters. They're physicians who were perturbed by the thread title. If you've been on sdn long enough, you'd understand why.

You're all being facetious. It's fine to say you are a PGY-1 at a "top ten" institution. Even though residencies aren't ranked, we all know what he means (the medical school / institution is top 10). How else is he supposed to convey the type of program he is in? And further, that he has spent his career at top schools. What is so hard to understand about this?

The bottom line is that we all know what he means by "Top 10", and that is helpful information in the absence of meaningful rankings of preliminary programs.
 
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