Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition

[LizzyM]

What is your favorite interview question to ask?

@GoPelicans
I don't like to reveal my favorite because it is idiosyncratic and I'd rather not have anyone up all night wondering if they'd been interviewed by me. I do like to ask about research, travels, prior familiarity with the region, and some other stuff.

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[LizzyM]

I'm an applicant with competitive stats and suitable ECs for a good in-state school. Could the complete silence from other schools be caused by an assumption that I will be accepted to and attend the state school? Might it be worthwhile to send update letters to these schools? Am I overthinking this?

Thanks, and best wishes for a wonderful holiday!

@capit It could be that they're just not that into you. There could be a little bit of "why would we waste an interview slot on capit, with those numbers he's sure to be going to X or Y and not here." That's a self defeating attitude, IMHO, on the part of the med schools that do it, because they miss out on really excellent candidates who might attend if given an opportunity. However, I'm not the one who has to make those interview invite decisions or has to deal with being turned down 200 times after May 15th when excellent applicants choose another school over mine.

 

[LostinLift]

Have you considered applicants in my situation (below)? How important to you is GPA and MCAT after the interview?

I ask as a low GPA (below 10th percentile for schools)/ high MCAT (above 90th percentile for most schools) applicant with several interviews. I have ~50 credits of post-bacc work >3.8 and a compelling reason for low uGPA, but will schools I interview at still hold this against me, enough for a rejection, even if my interviews/LOR/ECs are good/great?

 

[Euxox]

Harvard, WUSTL, UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Cornell, Vandy, Columbia, Baylor, NYU, Emory, UNC, Case are all out. Who can't spell those?!

Howard University, University of Washington, University of California - San Fernando, Universidad Centroccidental Lisandro Alvarado, University of Central South Dakota, Corn L or Cornell College, Vanderbuilt, Colombia, Bailor, Newark University, Emery, University of Northern California, Case Midwestern Preserve University

I'm willing to bet that all of these happened at one point or the other. (Except for UCLA and UCSD.)

 

[cookiemonsters]

Maybe it's Johns Hopkins? I imagine ALOT of people call it John Hopkins without ever realizing there's an s there.

 

[Summer Glow]

no questions but thanks for making this thread

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

What do you, or adcomms generally, think about third and fourth time applicants?

 

[knv2u]

She is nice enough to donate her time to help us out, and we should show our gratitude, by among other things, respecting her decision to remain anonymous. She absolutely deserves her privacy.

Her privacy should be the number one consideration here, but for those who apparently don't care, there are selfish motivations to consider if nothing else can convince you all to leave it alone. First and foremost, how candid do you think an adcom is going to be when posting online if his/her identity is known? I would venture to say "not very" given that the adcom would need to be concerned about political correctness and maintaining a front for the institution. All of this can be eliminated by allowing her to remain anonymous.

Edited to remove stupid first sentence.

 

[KnuxNole]

I don't have a favorite... there are so many holiday delights.

What's your favorite holiday drink then?

 

[LizzyM]

What do exactly "administration, policy and relationship building" entail? Can you offer examples?

If someone is interested in academic medicine and ultimately administration, what are some realistic timelines (of doing research, mentorship, leadership, etc.) that he or she should expect to reach there? For example, 10-20 years of professorship or being a Chair? I am just curious how all this process works. Not many of us know what exactly their Deans in college/medical school do on a daily basis, besides "social events and face time."

Typically, a person in academic medicine does some notable research and gets some big grants within a few years of being appointed to the faculty. From there they are appointed division chief and/or chairman of the department and then dean of the medical school. Sometimes this involves transfer from one school to another and another as one climbs the ladder. If you are lucky, you have a good administrative/money/budget guy who goes up the ladder with you and an administrative assistant that makes the climb, too.

I think it is rare to be appointed dean before the age of 50 but I'm sure it has happened. I think that most are closer to 60 and then they serve for 5-10 years or move on to another school after a period of a few years.

Deans are ruminating on questions such as, "what are our strategic goals? What recruiting efforts must be made to reach those goals? What openings do we have for Department chairs and how will we fill them? What policies should we have in place for faculty appointment of voluntary faculty (physicians who are appointed to the faculty by virtue of having a private practice at the academic affiliated hospital)? What should be expected of them in return? What space requirements will we have over the next 25 years? How will we find the funding to build what we need? What does our research portfolio look like? How are we doing in comparison with our peer institutions? Is our curriculum up to snuff? Does it need to be revised? How are our students doing? Should we change the way we recruit our classes? What are our weaknesses? How can we shore up those areas in which we are weak? What are our strengths? How do we best build on them? What is that going to cost and where am I going to find the money? What's happening to our clinical affiliates? do we need to forge new alliances? Do the policies on faculty governance need to be revisited? How is public policy in Washington going to effect the school in the short and long term? How can we position our school to weather the hard times that may be coming?" And on and on.

 

[Euxox]

Actually, you have misspelled two of the institutions that you listed. The correct spellings are "Emory" University and "Baylor" University and not "Emery" or "Bailor" respectively.

I hadn't noticed.

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to guess LizzyM's university though.

 

[LizzyM]

Hello LizzyM! Thanks for doing this I think I can speak for many people when I say that we are very glad that you are willing to take time out of your vacation (and just your time, in general throughout the year) to answer our questions. Here are some questions I hope you can answer:

1. How do you feel about the "ladder rung theory?" Would you say this is the general guiding principle in admissions or is it widely dependent upon school? Do you feel this is the best, most feasible way to assess an applicant?

2. Has there ever been an instance where your (strong) advocation for an applicant was the deciding factor in them being admitted?

3. If you could give advice to future applicants/interviewees, what would you tell them? (does not have to be in regards to medical school application process, but can be about life, in general)

4. What is one aspect of the admissions process that you believe should be changed?

5. What has been your favorite thread/moment/incident as a result of your participation on SDN as LizzyM? (meeting others that were on sdn, funny thread, etc.)

6. Why are you so awesome? And upon your retirement, do you think that you will reveal to all of us your true identity?

@lalalapartay012
1. It isn't a ladder rung which suggests that only one person can occupy each rung. It is a wide staircase with many people on each stair.
2. Maybe but I'm still only one vote and I can't twist more than 2 other arms at a time.
3. As the Genie said to Aladdin, "be yourself".
4. Applying to more than 15 schools. But I do not believe I can convince 40,000 applicants to scale back the number of applications they make.
5. I do have a couple of friends I've made through SDN, and I think my favorite thread might be The Elf on the Shelf poem my kid and I wrote 2 years ago tomorrow. It still makes me smile.
6. I am far less awesome than you fabulous pre-meds who get admitted to med school each year and make me proud.

Retirement? Perish the thought.

 

[SilentSoldier]

@SilentSoldier Who's buying?

If you choose something good, the drink will be on me

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you for your contributions to this community. Your advice has been so helpful to so many of us.

My question is this: What's your favorite underdog story from your time as an adcom? Was there someone with borderline stats that just won your heart in the interview? Or maybe you saw a student who overcame childhood adversity and developed into a star student/physician?

Thanks again for all you do!

@Remy LeBeau
Like my favorite holiday treat, it is hard to pick just one. I am always delighted to see applicants succeed, particularly the underdogs.

 

[Remy LeBeau]

I hadn't noticed.

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to guess LizzyM's university though.

It's against the TOS to try to out people.

 

[masaraksh]

Actually, you have misspelled two of the institutions that you listed. The correct spellings are "Emory" University and "Baylor" University and not "Emery" or "Bailor" respectively. Moreover, I wish everybody would respect her privacy and stop trying to guess her institution. She is nice enough to donate her time to help us out, and we should show our gratitude, by among other things, respecting her decision to remain anonymous. She absolutely deserves her privacy.

Her privacy should be the number one consideration here, but for those who apparently don't care, there are selfish motivations to consider if nothing else can convince you all to leave it alone. First and foremost, how candid do you think an adcom is going to be when posting online if his/her identity is known? I would venture to say "not very" given that the adcom would need to be concerned about political correctness and maintaining a front for the institution. All of this can be eliminated by allowing her to remain anonymous.

I hadn't noticed.

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to guess LizzyM's university though.

Very fair. No more guesswork. Sure was funny though... "Corn L"!

 

[LizzyM]

What's your favorite holiday drink then?

@KnuxNole
Whatever @SilentSoldier is having.

 

[WestCoastNative]

Favorite cut of steak and level of done-ness? A lot can be inferred about a person by their preference of steak.

 

[LizzyM]

Would a single C be grounds to get your admission rescinded?

@swift3y I don't know. Anything that happens after admission offers are made is outside my purview.

 

[Bovary]

Does your school's publicly stated mission (i.e. the one found on the MSAR) accurately reflect your favored types of candidates?

More generally, I can't figure out to what extent I should read through dozens of missions statements in order to find schools that want candidates like me.

Thanks!

 

[Chipster.]

Bourbon or scotch?

 

[LizzyM]

And should I report the C to the school? Or just wait until they request my final transcript?

@swift3y Why go looking for trouble? Submit the transcript when it is required of you. I can't imagine that any good could come of bringing this up early. If you think that it should disqualify you from admission. (e.g. you got a C- a pre-req) you might want to make telephone inquiry to the school and ask if you should retake prior to your matriculation.

 

[Si Se Puede]

You mention that it is better to think in terms on duration (e.g. 12 months) than hours for volunteering clinically or otherwise...do you place any emphasis on how many stints add up to that total duration (like 6 months Freshman year, 6 months Soph, etc)? On one hand 12 months at one place shows somewhat that you are not in it just for the checkbox but a new experience and perspective might be nice to have as well.

Do you look down on applicants who try to fill up the missing boxes right before applying (like Junior Spring semester)?

I am aware that applicants' course loads are looked at...does research credit count as a filler class or is it the same as any other class? What about the applicants that have taken so many courses early on that they have less than 12 hours per semester left but do not want or cannot graduate early?

Cheers!

 

[LizzyM]

Favorite cut of steak and level of done-ness? A lot can be inferred about a person by their preference of steak.

@WestCoastNative
Presumptuous of you to assume that I eat beef. I don't have a favorite cut of steak.
I like most of my food cooked to a medium level of doneness.

 

[LizzyM]

Does your school's publicly stated mission (i.e. the one found on the MSAR) accurately reflect your favored types of candidates?

More generally, I can't figure out to what extent I should read through dozens of missions statements in order to find schools that want candidates like me.

Thanks!

@Bovary
I think that our mission statement is reflective of our aspirations. Other than reading mission statements, how would you propose to find schools that are a good fit with what you are looking for in a school and where you will fit in with their vision?

 

[WestCoastNative]

@WestCoastNative
Presumptuous of you to assume that I eat beef. I don't have a favorite cut of steak.
I like most of my food cooked to a medium level of doneness.

Oops. Failed to cross my mind that not everyone eats steak for a minute there I'm with you on the medium level of doneness however.

 

[LizzyM]

Bourbon or scotch?

@Chipste
"yes, please."

 

[knv2u]

I hadn't noticed.

I agree that we shouldn't be trying to guess LizzyM's university though.

Very fair. No more guesswork. Sure was funny though... "Corn L"!

I didn't pay close attention to/read the entire list to notice "Corn L"; perhaps if I had, maybe I would have understood the joke.

 

[Decemberist]

Is it application suicide to take a prereq online and/or at a "lesser" institution? I am at a HYPS school and can't fit physics into my schedule. I can't afford to take it at my school over the summer because no financial aid is offered, so I was thinking about taking it at BYU online. It seems legit - the tests are proctored - but even so, will it being online and not at my home institution be a red flag?

 

[masaraksh]

I didn't pay close attention to/read the entire list to notice "Corn L"; perhaps if I had, maybe I would have understood the joke.

wouldn't be the first time a pre-med took something too seriously and missed the joke!

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Any good underdog applicant stories?

 

[LizzyM]

You mention that it is better to think in terms on duration (e.g. 12 months) than hours for volunteering clinically or otherwise...do you place any emphasis on how many stints add up to that total duration (like 6 months Freshman year, 6 months Soph, etc)? On one hand 12 months at one place shows somewhat that you are not in it just for the checkbox but a new experience and perspective might be nice to have as well.

Do you look down on applicants who try to fill up the missing boxes right before applying (like Junior Spring semester)?

I am aware that applicants' course loads are looked at...does research credit count as a filler class or is it the same as any other class? What about the applicants that have taken so many courses early on that they have less than 12 hours per semester left but do not want or cannot graduate early?

Cheers!

@Si Se Puede
AMCAS changed things up with the 2013-2014 cycle so now the information requested include total hours rather than average hours per week. Consequently, I saw more emphasis this season on total hours and less on duration in months/years. That said, a load of experiences in the last 6 months before the application is made does make it look as if the applicant has made a hurried decision to apply and suddenly rushed to check the boxes.

Research is not looked at as a filler class, as best I can tell from fellow adcom members remarks.
If you can save money by being part-time at the end of your academic career and you can find some good way to fill the rest of your time (and document that on your application) then I doubt anyone would fault you for it. If you need to be full time but choose to take 12 credits rather than adding something for enrichment (same tuition whether you take 12 credits or 18 -- why not get your money's worth?) then you might be considered a bit intellectually stilted... or perhaps no one will notice or care. You never can tell sometimes.

 

[Bovary]

@Bovary
I think that our mission statement is reflective of our aspirations. Other than reading mission statements, how would you propose to find schools that are a good fit with what you are looking for in a school and where you will fit in with their vision?

I've been paying attention to location and curriculum mostly as I draft my list of schools — I suppose I'll go back to the MSAR to find schools that are OK with me saying "I shadowed multiple primary care doctors and their job looks boring."

• Is your school, which you've mentioned is a "numbers-*****" "top tier" school, OK with the above kind of statements about primary care?

• Some schools (like Wash U, among others) have especially high GPA/MCAT averages. Do these schools (or does your "number *****" school) have higher average stats because higher-stat applicants choose to attend there (meaning the school is more desirable to the cream of the crop applicants), or is it because those schools put the most value on pure numbers (meaning high stats will take one further towards getting into Wash U, etc).

 

[LizzyM]

Is it application suicide to take a prereq online and/or at a "lesser" institution? I am at a HYPS school and can't fit physics into my schedule. I can't afford to take it at my school over the summer because no financial aid is offered, so I was thinking about taking it at BYU online. It seems legit - the tests are proctored - but even so, will it being online and not at my home institution be a red flag?

@Decemberist. In a word, yes.

 

[LizzyM]

Any good underdog applicant stories?

@lalalaaaaaa None that I'm at liberty to discuss.

 

[LizzyM]

I've been paying attention to location and curriculum mostly as I draft my list of schools — I suppose I'll go back to the MSAR to find schools that are OK with me saying "I shadowed multiple primary care doctors and their job looks boring."

• Is your school, which you've mentioned is a "numbers-*****" "top tier" school, OK with the above kind of statements about primary care?

• Some schools (like Wash U, among others) have especially high GPA/MCAT averages. Do these schools (or does your "number *****" school) have higher average stats because higher-stat applicants choose to attend there (meaning the school is more desirable to the cream of the crop applicants), or is it because those schools put the most value on pure numbers (meaning high stats will take one further towards getting into Wash U, etc).

@Bovary
Does it seem plausible that even the top tier schools may have primary care providers on the adcom? Do you think that they want to hear that you think that what they do is boring? Do you think it is a good idea to denigrate any field of practice within medicine if you want to be admitted?

Do schools like mine have high stats because the applicants with high stats choose my school or does my school have students with high stats because we choose applicants with high stats? It is a two way street. If an applicant with high stats has one offer, chances are they have six (unless they quit interviewing after getting one offer). At that point, it is up to the school to lure them, either with the prestige of attending that highly regarded school, or with merit aid, or both.

I really don't know... I'm thinking of a Rogers & Hammerstein musical number that asked, "Do I want you because your wonderful? Or are you wonderful because I want you?"

 

[nemo123]

Has there ever been an applicant at your school that annoyed the ADCOM so much (outside of interview day like calling the office everyday)? If so, did the office make a note in his/her app about it?

 

[Long Way to Go]

What do AdComs (or yourself) see the difference between a 3.8/33, 3.6/35, and 4.0/31 as? They all have a LizzyM score of a 71, but they tell very different stories.

 

[LizzyM]

Has there ever been an applicant at your school that annoyed the ADCOM so much (outside of interview day like calling the office everyday)? If so, did the office make a note in his/her app about it?

@nemo123
The adcom doesn't have any direct contact with applicants except for those adcom members who are also interviewers. We have office staff who deal with people on the phone and in the office. The one situation I've seen end up in someone's application file has been rude behavior on the part of an applicant toward a member of the office staff. If you are going to mouth off to the receptionist or expect the staffer who welcomes applicants on interview day to hang up your coat for you (rather than doing it yourself), then you might not be a good fit for our school.

 

[x465798]

LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

Since childhood I learned a lot about medicine from my father's chronic disease. Is writing about parent's chronic disease as motivation for medicine in personal statement considered a sob story? I have very good numbers, truly it is my motivation and don't plan to make any excuse in the essay.

 

[LizzyM]

What do AdComs (or yourself) see the difference between a 3.8/33, 3.6/35, and 4.0/31? They all have a LizzyM score of a 71, but they tell very different stories.

@Long Way to Go
Obviously they are different applicants and each one has a story. If my school has a LizzyM score of 70 or 71, all of them may be admissible but one or more may be a better fit. Each application needs to be read and evaluated beyond the numbers.

 

[andjusticeforal]

Is it possible to effectively demonstrate leadership or teaching experience through an experience that is not listed under those categories in your application?

As a non-trad that didn't consider medicine until after college, I didn't end up with any specific teaching or leadership experiences from undergrad. However, I have trained every person in my lab at my current job on pretty much everything. I have been in the lab the longest out of everyone and have had a large leadership role, but will schools not regard this as highly as an activity that is purely teaching or leadership?

Thanks

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

Since childhood I learned a lot about medicine from my father's chronic disease. Is writing about parent's chronic disease as motivation for medicine in personal statement considered a sob story? I have very good numbers, truly it is my motivation and don't plan to make any excuse in the essay.

@x465798 it doesn't have to be a sob story. It can be very much a story of curiosity (why does my dad have to give himself shots? why can't insulin be a pill? what gets matched when matching for kidney donation? why does dad get short of breath in cold weather?) and/or gratitude and a desire to do a job you've seen a role model do (wanting to help families as your dad's doctors have helped your family and to be as skillful in explaining things or performing procedres as your dad's doctors are) or a combination (perhaps an interest in the science and helping makes you interested in helping families as a clinician and as an investigator who works to finds better treatments.

Just don't be so idealistic that you aren't realistic; don't say, "I don't want any kid to go through what I had to go through having a dad who couldn't run and play with me." You aren't going to prevent all kids from suffering because you've become a doctor.

 

[LizzyM]

Is it possible to effectively demonstrate leadership or teaching experience through an experience that is not listed under those categories in your application?

As a non-trad that didn't consider medicine until after college, I didn't end up with any specific teaching or leadership experiences from undergrad. However, I have trained every person in my lab at my current job on pretty much everything. I have been in the lab the longest out of everyone and have had a large leadership role, but will schools not regard this as highly as an activity that is purely teaching or leadership?

Thanks

@andjusticeforall
Just work the description of leadership and teaching into your description of the activity. Also prime your letter writer in the lab to highlight your leadership and teaching of underlings in the LOR.

 

[andjusticeforal]

@LizzyM
Thanks so much. I have my annual review coming up with my PI and I will bring those things up.

 

[Si Se Puede]

What do you think when you see an applicant that looks "superhuman" (e.g. does like 20 hrs research, plays on div 1 sport team, takes 25 credit hours, volunteers 5 hrs, tA jobs @ 10 hrs, emt at 10 hrs, blah blah each week)? Do you think the person is bull*** his hours etc? Maybe they don't study at all Like that William Hwang dude...

What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

 

[x465798]

@x465798 it doesn't have to be a sob story. It can be very much a story of curiosity (why does my dad have to give himself shots? why can't insulin be a pill? what gets matched when matching for kidney donation? why does dad get short of breath in cold weather?) and/or gratitude and a desire to do a job you've seen a role model do (wanting to help families as your dad's doctors have helped your family and to be as skillful in explaining things or performing procedres as your dad's doctors are) or a combination (perhaps an interest in the science and helping makes you interested in helping families as a clinician and as an investigator who works to finds better treatments.

Just don't be so idealistic that you aren't realistic; don't say, "I don't want any kid to go through what I had to go through having a dad who couldn't run and play with me." You aren't going to prevent all kids from suffering because you've become a doctor.

Thank you very much for the advice.

 

[LizzyM]

What do you think when you see an applicant that looks "superhuman" (e.g. does like 20 hrs research, plays on div 1 sport team, takes 25 credit hours, volunteers 5 hrs, tA jobs @ 10 hrs, emt at 10 hrs, blah blah each week)? Do you think the person is bull*** his hours etc? Maybe they don't study at all Like that William Hwang dude...

What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

@Si Se Puede
If something looks too good to be true I add it up & see if it makes sense. I look at the letters of recommendation to see what they have to say. I might even do a bit of a look see on the school's athletic website to see if that division sports team involvement was 1 season on the bench or if it was some real involvement.

peach when it is in season, cherry vanilla if it is on the menu (rarely), otherwise coffee

Why do I feel like you folks are secretly planning a banquet with my favorite foods and beverages? Let's include @crabcakes.

 

[LostinLift]

@LizzyM Related to the underdog questions...

Have you considered applicants in my situation (below)? How important to you is GPA and MCAT after the interview?

I ask as a low GPA (below 10th percentile for schools)/ high MCAT (above 90th percentile for most schools) applicant with several interviews. I have ~50 credits of post-bacc work >3.8 and a compelling reason for low uGPA, but will schools I interview at still hold this against me, enough for a rejection, even if my interviews/LOR/ECs are good/great?

 

[Aerus]

Thank you so much for doing this!

1) Being an adcom at a top tier private school, do you get concerned when an applicant does mediocre on all of their prereqs, even if their overall GPA is high? After all, med school classes ARE science classes.

2) Can you see any disadvantage for taking a gap year when applying to a top tier private school like your own? Are all traditional ("after junior year") applicants automatically at a disadvantage to those who take a year or a couple years off?

Happy Holidays!