Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition

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If given a full merit scholarship at a school that is is "top ten" is there any reason to turn it down? I've already been accepted to my dream school in the top ten but they don't give merit scholarships. I don't want to "sell out" to just for money but not having any loans versus having 100k of loans is a big deal.
 
Hello LizzyM,

How does your school and schools of similar caliber look upon grades that are mostly As and A-s, but have 3 B+s as well?

What would you recommend to someone whose grades show a declining trend between one year and the next? As in, what would you recommend them to say when this topic comes up in interviews? While I understand that schools want to see a positive trend, sometimes, one year may be harder than the other due to harder courses taken and more commitments, etc. Please share any insights you have on this issue. Thanks!
 
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@Long Way to Go
Obviously they are different applicants and each one has a story. If my school has a LizzyM score of 70 or 71, all of them may be admissible but one or more may be a better fit. Each application needs to be read and evaluated beyond the numbers.
But all other things being the same...well, obviously you are never going to get ceteris paribus conditions among applications. But with ~50k applicants a year, certainly some of them start to look the same except for the grades. What happens when some of the preliminary reviewers place more weight towards GPA than MCAT, or vice-versa? Does the Admissions Office try to train people in reading files, or is it all left to the reviewers to decide how they want to wait different points of an application?

Thanks again for doing this.
 
Lizzy, thanks for taking questions..

I'm a non-trad applying this coming cycle, and I have a question that relates to some of the info in my WAMC thread. I have a bad stretch at the end of my undergrad (details are in this post: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/non-trad-applicant-with-gpa-disparity.1045911/#post-14717072)

I'd like to address this in my PS (and hopefully, with some luck, in interviews during the next cycle), so I'm wondering a few things from your perspective as a faculty member, adcom member/evaluator, etc..
  • In what ways have students that were successful with a bad stretch in their record framed the situation in the context of a PS? More specifically, in what ways have you seen this situation addressed that you responded positively to?
  • Given the limited length of the PS, how much room should one devote to this sort of topic? My gut (since this is applicable to me) says to keep it straight forward, positive and succinct. Maybe a clever few sentences in the closing that are explanatory and take responsibility for the subject, but leave the topic open for further discussion (hopefully) in an interview?
Any and all feedback welcome. Happy Holidays 🙂
 
When it comes to personal statements, I seem to always hear about applicants who have this one big story that led them to choose medicine as their lifelong goal. Is it really necessary to have these one or two big ticket moments/stories for a personal statement to be meaningful, or can it simply be just an honest explanation of simple experiences in your life that all collectively led you to want to be a doctor?
 
What criteria does your school use to accept applicants off of your waitlist?

You say letters of intent are bogus, is there anything significant an applicant can do to improve his chances of being accepted off of a waitlist?
 
Will you take a brief look at my forum post entitled, "Thoughtful Suggestions?" I would appreciate your advice. Thanks.
 
Hi LizzyM! Thank you so much for doing this.

Here's my question: what are your thoughts on applicants who have no lab research experience? Right now I'm a senior and I can't decide whether I should apply this upcoming cycle or the next one. I have a 3.8 GPA, 35 MCAT, and hundreds of hours of clinical, volunteer, and leadership experience, but no lab research experience (the only "research" I did was looking up/summarizing scientific articles for grad students). Would you recommend I take a year off before applying to immerse myself in research or just go ahead and apply this summer without any research experience? Regardless of when I apply I still plan on working in a lab full-time next year, I just want to know if I should apply this cycle or next.

Thanks again!

Edit: Oxford comma
 
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Hi!

In general, what are adcom's opinions on studying abroad? If an applicant cannot take a gap year, and has the choice between spending a semester abroad or spending that year continuing active participation in clubs/research/volunteering and taking on a leadership position, would it be absolutely stupid to take that semester off to study abroad?
 
What's your biggest pet peeve?
12h.jpg
 
Hi LizzyM,
Is there any way for an applicant to salvage a downward trend? I am asking because my freshman gpa is a 4.0, but it declined each year and I finished undergrad with a 3.8. Should I attempt to explain this to adcoms?
Thank you!
 
Is it a bad idea to study abroad first semester senior year when interviews will be happening? I have a program I REALLY want to do but everyone is telling me not to because I'll have to fly back for all my interviews, and I'm not sure I have the funds to do that.
 
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Hi, LizzyM! Thank you for taking time out from your holiday shenanigans for us. 🙂

To ask my questions, I'm afraid I will have to go into a *little* background. Sorry for the mini novella.

I struggled throughout my college career. After 2 years of believing it was something I was doing (e.g., bad study skills, too many units, too many extracurriculars, etc.) an advisor suggested I be tested for a learning disorder. I went through extensive testing with several misdiagnoses until I was properly diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. During this process, I withdrew from the university. A year later, I returned to school and completed my last year with straight A's, 35 MCAT, and strong extracurriculars/research experience. Because my cumulative GPA was at a feeble 3.0, I enrolled into a post-bacc program. So far, it's going very well.

I have severe gaps in my academic transcript which include: grades that will make most pre-meds cry, a one-year break before completing my degree, and simply, the fact it took me much longer than a typical student to complete college. I would like to be honest in addressing the obstacles I had to overcome because it has been an important part of my journey. However, I worry adcoms will think I am writing a sob story to try and win pity points. I considered leaving all of this out, but feel the lack of acknowledgement will raise red flags.

My first question is: How should I proceed to address this in my personal statement?
My second question is: Have you ever encountered an applicant in a similar situation, and if so, what types of questions and concerns were raised?
 
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So many interview questions!

1. How much of a negative effect do you think an "ok" interview has on an applicant? I'm worried because I feel like a couple of my interviews went "ok" but not great just because I was nervous. Now I'm freaking out that I'm going to end up on 9 waitlists or something.

2. As a California applicant I always get the "will you REALLY leave California for our school?" question and it's been kind of annoying. I spent 500 dollars to come here of course I would! Do you ever waitlist applicants you would otherwise want at your school simply because you want to wait and see if they'll actually want to get off the watilist come May?

3. Are applicants with no other acceptances more likely to be accepted off the waitlist than applicants who may have been ranked higher post-interview but hold an acceptance at another great school? Even though you said letters of intent don't really matter, would they matter at this stage for either of the two hypothetical applicants?

4. How do you feel about interview bias in non-mmi interviews. I had a student interviewer tell me he was having a bad day right from the beginning and he just seemed like he hated being there (just went through a list of 20 questions and then left). I think I made him laugh once though! Yay me?!

5. Do most schools do the "form" thing you mentioned? I've been at interviews where the person isn't writing ANYTHING down, some where the interviewer is going down a list of standard questions, and another where the interviewer seems to be doing what you mentioned - asking questions very specifically tailored to my application.
 
@LizzyM Related to the underdog questions...

Have you considered applicants in my situation (below)? How important to you is GPA and MCAT after the interview?

I ask as a low GPA (below 10th percentile for schools)/ high MCAT (above 90th percentile for most schools) applicant with several interviews. I have ~50 credits of post-bacc work >3.8 and a compelling reason for low uGPA, but will schools I interview at still hold this against me, enough for a rejection, even if my interviews/LOR/ECs are good/great?
@LostinLift
You are new here so you may not have seen my analogy of the staircase. Your grades and scores (combined, if you will, with the formula GPA(10)+MCAT) along with your ECs, essays and LORs place you in one of many broad ranked categories. You can think of them as stairs on a wide staircase. (In other words, many of you can be on the same stair.) If a school selects you for interview, in all likelihood you are high enough on the stairs to be admitted or there is the potential that a good interview could boost you up enough to garner admission. That said, someone with a 4.0/40 and an amazing dossier of activities will start out on a higher stair and be more likely to be admitted if your interviews are about the same. Or, the other applicant could bomb the interview and move far down the staircase while you, with a great interview, move up. If a school looks at an applicant and says, "Even with a great interview, we couldn't possibly admit someone with an undergrad gpa of x.xx", then the school is doing you a disservice by inviting you to interview. If you get an interview, it should be a signal that you are "good enough" on paper and the next step is to determine if you are as good (or even better) in person.
 
Thank you so much for doing this!

1) Being an adcom at a top tier private school, do you get concerned when an applicant does mediocre on all of their prereqs, even if their overall GPA is high? After all, med school classes ARE science classes.

2) Can you see any disadvantage for taking a gap year when applying to a top tier private school like your own? Are all traditional ("after junior year") applicants automatically at a disadvantage to those who take a year or a couple years off?

Happy Holidays!
@Aerus
1) It is hard to do mediocre in all the pre-reqs and still have a high GPA. I mean, is that mathematically possible? I think of a high GPA at 3.80 or higher. If it were possible, it would concern me.
2) A gap year could be a disadvantage if the applicant does nothing and has no plan to do anything. Some, but not all, applicants grow and mature with some time away from school and that does put them at an advantage over traditional applicants who are immature. However, not all traditional applicants are immature. A gap year or two is also an opportunity to acquire or hone new skills and that can be an advantage over someone who has not developed those skills.
 
If given a full merit scholarship at a school that is is "top ten" is there any reason to turn it down? I've already been accepted to my dream school in the top ten but they don't give merit scholarships. I don't want to "sell out" to just for money but not having any loans versus having 100k of loans is a big deal.
@Espadaleader
I'm confused. You've been admitted to your dream school which does not give merit aid and another top 10 that has offered you a full ride?? Well, hot dog! Is there any chance your dream school will give you need based aid?
Each school that admits you will have a price tag. It is up to you to determine what you value and which school you want to "buy".
 
Hello LizzyM,

How does your school and schools of similar caliber look upon grades that are mostly As and A-s, but have 3 B+s as well?

What would you recommend to someone whose grades show a declining trend between one year and the next? As in, what would you recommend them to say when this topic comes up in interviews? While I understand that schools want to see a positive trend, sometimes, one year may be harder than the other due to harder courses taken and more commitments, etc. Please share any insights you have on this issue. Thanks!
@sunshine02 we look at grades that are mostly As and A-s with 3 B+s as better than grades that are mostly B+s with 3 As but not as strong as grades of A and A- with no Bs.
My only thought about your second question is to say that the J curve in grades is very common with the dip coming in the sophomore year and almost always associated with organic chem. It is so common that we hardly blink when we see it and if someone is good enough to get an interview despite the dip in grades, it isn't something I'd generally bring up as an interviewer.
 
But all other things being the same...well, obviously you are never going to get ceteris paribus conditions among applications. But with ~50k applicants a year, certainly some of them start to look the same except for the grades. What happens when some of the preliminary reviewers place more weight towards GPA than MCAT, or vice-versa? Does the Admissions Office try to train people in reading files, or is it all left to the reviewers to decide how they want to wait different points of an application?

Thanks again for doing this.
@Long Way to Go
Yes, we are trained to read files. We also use a rating form. No school sees all 50,000 applicants but each school has 5-15% of the pool come into its queue in a given year. We have more than one set of eyeballs on most applicants (those who aren't screened out on some basic quantitative measures). Having more than one reviewer evens out differences among reviewers and increases the reliability of an assessment.
 
I saw earlier that you said you're a fan of a 5 paragraph personal statement. I'm sure it depends on each person's writing ability/style but how many pages do you equate that to (or how many do you prefer)? I've heard quite a bit from family involved in the process that if you can fit your PS on one page, make it short, sweet and to the point, that adcoms really appreciate this since they have to wade through tons of statements (unless of course you're blessed with incredible story telling skills and an interesting story to give them).
 
Lizzy, thanks for taking questions..

I'm a non-trad applying this coming cycle, and I have a question that relates to some of the info in my WAMC thread. I have a bad stretch at the end of my undergrad (details are in this post: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/non-trad-applicant-with-gpa-disparity.1045911/#post-14717072)

I'd like to address this in my PS (and hopefully, with some luck, in interviews during the next cycle), so I'm wondering a few things from your perspective as a faculty member, adcom member/evaluator, etc..
  • In what ways have students that were successful with a bad stretch in their record framed the situation in the context of a PS? More specifically, in what ways have you seen this situation addressed that you responded positively to?
  • Given the limited length of the PS, how much room should one devote to this sort of topic? My gut (since this is applicable to me) says to keep it straight forward, positive and succinct. Maybe a clever few sentences in the closing that are explanatory and take responsibility for the subject, but leave the topic open for further discussion (hopefully) in an interview?
Any and all feedback welcome. Happy Holidays 🙂
@Staffsy77
You have fallen apart academically three times when faced with illness/death in your family. This needs to be explained in the application. (I've seen it done be a committee LOR but you may not have that option.) You will need to assure the adcom that you have learned to cope with emotional distress and that you will not crump when faced with such trials in the future. That you did well once when faced with a family crisis is of some help but might not be enough. You've gotten good advice on your WAMC thread and you can only hope that you get past the screens to real eyeballs. Give them a compelling PS that explains the story that is obviously behind your transcript and you may get a few nibbles.
 
Hi LizzyM,
I have a couple of questions:
1) Are re-applicants really at a disadvantage?
2)Are most schools open to giving applicants feedback as to why their app was unsuccessful?
3)What is the biggest reason a person doesn't get an II at your school (if they manage to have a decent gpa/mcat score)?
4) Are multiple mcat scores looked down upon?
@GOK<3
1) Not only do they have to have a good application, they have to show that their application has improved since the last time they applied.
2) I don't know what most schools do. If you are not admitted anywhere, it can't hurt to call in late May/June and ask how you might improve your application before applying again. Some schools that turned you down might be open to giving you some tips.
3) Too few interview slots. Obviously, to garner an interview slot, you need grades and scores along with some exposure to medicine, curiosity about the natural world, a heart for service, and a demonstrated ability to work well with others.
4) No but they are averaged. Taking it once and scoring X is better than taking it twice and scoring X on the second attempt and X-Y on the first attempt where Y is a positive number.
 
do u enjoy the power of being an adcom?
@U Wot M8
"Uneasy the head that wears the crown."
It is a great responsibility that I do not take lightly. It can be frustrating, exasperating, exhausting, thankless. What I really get out of SDN is a little peek of the world from the applicants' perspective and that does help me be more empathetic when reviewing applications and interviewing applicants.
 
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How much attention do you pay to the Most Meaningful Experience essays? In terms of importance, how do they compare to Personal Statements?

Edit (rephrase): How much attention should I expect ADCOMs to pay to Most Meaningful Experience essays in comparison to Personal Statements in your opinion?
 
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When it comes to personal statements, I seem to always hear about applicants who have this one big story that led them to choose medicine as their lifelong goal. Is it really necessary to have these one or two big ticket moments/stories for a personal statement to be meaningful, or can it simply be just an honest explanation of simple experiences in your life that all collectively led you to want to be a doctor?

@The Milkman You have to tell your story. Your story needs to explain how the idea of being a physician came to you and how you tested this idea through experiences related to medicine as a career. Your story is uniquely yours and whether it is a big moment or small incremental steps, it should be honest, sincere and compelling.
 
What criteria does your school use to accept applicants off of your waitlist?

You say letters of intent are bogus, is there anything significant an applicant can do to improve his chances of being accepted off of a waitlist?
@Donald Kimball
Letters of intent are bogus (if admitted I will attend), but letters of interest are taken into consideration as are phone calls of interest. As I've mentioned previously, once offers go out and other applicants are declined or waitlisted, my job is over and I don't have any role in accepting applicants off the waitlist.
 
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@Donald Kimball
Letters of intent are bogus (if admitted I will attend), but letters of interest are taken into consideration as are phone calls of interest. As I've mentioned previously, once offers go out and other applicants are declined or waitlisted, my job is over and I don't have any role in accepting applicants off the waitlist.

wat? 😵

So letters of interest (which don't imply any commitment) are taken to mean more than letters of intent (which at least in theory show more of a commitment to attend said school). weird.
 
Hi LizzyM! Thank you so much for doing this.

Here's my question: what are your thoughts on applicants who have no lab research experience? Right now I'm a senior and I can't decide whether I should apply this upcoming cycle or the next one. I have a 3.8 GPA, 35 MCAT, and hundreds of hours of clinical, volunteer, and leadership experience, but no lab research experience (the only "research" I did was looking up/summarizing scientific articles for grad students). Would you recommend I take a year off before applying to immerse myself in research or just go ahead and apply this summer without any research experience? Regardless of when I apply I still plan on working in a lab full-time next year, I just want to know if I should apply this cycle or next.

Thanks again!

Edit: Oxford comma
@beforeiteverbegan
My school looks for research experience. It is almost always, but not universally, bench research. In any case, hypothesis testing is more highly valued than digging out background research for someone who is doing the intellectual heavy lifting.
The overwhelming majority of applicants have something on their application tagged as "research". Some schools value this more highly than do others. Schools that have big research shops and in particular those that require a thesis for graduation are going to be more focused on applicants with research experience; schools aimed at training primary care providers for clinical practice may not focus as much on this aspect of the application. So, whether you should take one gap year or two depends in part on what your goals are and what sort of practice you are aiming for (strictly clinical and likely to be primary care or academic and likely a subspecialty).
 
wat? 😵

So letters of interest (which don't imply any commitment) are taken to mean more than letters of intent (which at least in theory show more of a commitment to attend said school). weird.
@masaraksh they are taken to mean the same thing.... no one in the admissions office really believes that a letter of intent is stronger than a letter of interest.
 
Hi!

In general, what are adcom's opinions on studying abroad? If an applicant cannot take a gap year, and has the choice between spending a semester abroad or spending that year continuing active participation in clubs/research/volunteering and taking on a leadership position, would it be absolutely stupid to take that semester off to study abroad?
@bluebubble I've never seen an adcom member judge an applicant more strongly for taking one path over the other. Both are valid.
 
Should I list a one-time activity/experience on the AMCAS?

Does our research have to be medical or biological?

@FictiousForce
It depends on what your one-time activity/experience is. If it is remarkable, then yes. If you ran a marathon once, it could be worth listing. If you spent 4 hours one afternoon stacking canned goods in a food pantry, it might not be significant enough to list on its own.

Most research is medical or biological but I have seen interesting projects in history, metallurgy, and other "non-medical" topics.
 
Hi LizzyM,
Is there any way for an applicant to salvage a downward trend? I am asking because my freshman gpa is a 4.0, but it declined each year and I finished undergrad with a 3.8. Should I attempt to explain this to adcoms?
Thank you!
@ahax10 A freshman year gpa of 4.0 gives you no where to go but down. If you have a 3.8 in the end, there is no need to explain.
 
@neusu Good Heavens! Do you really want that job? You need mad skills as a researcher (to have credibility of as an academic physician), skills in grantmanship and mentorship and leadership. You have to love administration, policy and relationship building. The dean is also the face of the medical school so that requires quite a bit of social events and face time with administration, faculty, students, alumni and donors.

As you may notice, there is little or no room for patient care. If you are going to medical school to become a Dean, you might not be a good fit for med school.

Isn't that ironic!!
 
Is it a bad idea to study abroad first semester senior year when interviews will be happening? I have a program I REALLY want to do but everyone is telling me not to because I'll have to fly back for all my interviews, and I'm not sure I have the funds to do that.
@TamaleShroveDoc
Check this year to see if the schools you like do interviews in January/February. Apply early and follow-up with an email (or slip it into your secondary) that you will be out of the country from date to date and available for interviews after ___. If a school really wants you, they will save you a spot.
 
Hi, LizzyM! Thank you for taking time out from your holiday shenanigans for us. 🙂

To ask my questions, I'm afraid I will have to go into a *little* background. Sorry for the mini novella.

I struggled throughout my college career. After 2 years of believing it was something I was doing (e.g., bad study skills, too many units, too many extracurriculars, etc.) an advisor suggested I be tested for a learning disorder. I went through extensive testing with several misdiagnoses until I was properly diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. During this process, I withdrew from the university. A year later, I returned to school and completed my last year with straight A's, 35 MCAT, and strong extracurriculars/research experience. Because my cumulative GPA was at a feeble 3.0, I enrolled into a post-bacc program. So far, it's going very well.

I have severe gaps in my academic transcript which include: grades that will make most pre-meds cry, a one-year break before completing my degree, and simply, the fact it took me much longer than a typical student to complete college. I would like to be honest in addressing the obstacles I had to overcome because it has been an important part of my journey. However, I worry adcoms will think I am writing a sob story to try and win pity points. I considered leaving all of this out, but feel the lack of acknowledgement will raise red flags.

My first question is: How should I proceed to address this in my personal statement?
My second question is: Have you ever encountered an applicant in a similar situation, and if so, what types of questions and concerns were raised?
@Pwny
1) Get a LOR from that advisor.
2) Question that might be raised would be, "does this disability preclude this applicant from succeeding here at this school and in a career in medicine?" The answer is going to be based on experienced faculty members knowledge of the demands of the clinical and pre-clinical curriculum and residency/practice and the success of current and former students who had similar challenges.
 
@Great White Buffalo
Hahvahd? Let's not go there. Attempts at determining my location are contrary to the terms of service and can get you banned. Don't be that guy.

This seems to happen every year on the Ask Me Almost Anything thread. Someone will pick up on a random thing you've said and will try to pick where your location is publicly. Guys and gals, it's fine to have your own thoughts on where LizzyM is, but don't try to put her on a public forum. It is an invasion of her privacy and it will anger out volunteer mods gods.
 
@GenericQuestions.
You seem to have gotten good advice on your forum thread. I have no suggestions to add. Good luck!

LizzyM,

I do appreciate your reply, although, I am still somewhat leery about transferring in my liberal arts electives to the brick and mortar I will be attending. I wonder, do medical school ADCOM members tend to look down on applicants who have online college credits, even if those credits are in English and social science? If so, what options should I take to counterbalance adverse reactions to my application, aside from retaking the liberal arts electives at a traditional university?
 
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This seems to happen every year on the Ask Me Almost Anything thread. Someone will pick up on a random thing you've said and will try to pick where your location is publicly. Guys and gals, it's fine to have your own thoughts on where LizzyM is, but don't try to put her on a public forum. It is an invasion of her privacy and it will anger out volunteer mods gods.

Yep. Not fair to LizzyM. Although misspelling school names is a lot of fun. Ultimately, it can be any school because anyone can misspell "XYZ School/College of Medisine"
 
So many interview questions!

1. How much of a negative effect do you think an "ok" interview has on an applicant? I'm worried because I feel like a couple of my interviews went "ok" but not great just because I was nervous. Now I'm freaking out that I'm going to end up on 9 waitlists or something.

2. As a California applicant I always get the "will you REALLY leave California for our school?" question and it's been kind of annoying. I spent 500 dollars to come here of course I would! Do you ever waitlist applicants you would otherwise want at your school simply because you want to wait and see if they'll actually want to get off the watilist come May?

3. Are applicants with no other acceptances more likely to be accepted off the waitlist than applicants who may have been ranked higher post-interview but hold an acceptance at another great school? Even though you said letters of intent don't really matter, would they matter at this stage for either of the two hypothetical applicants?

4. How do you feel about interview bias in non-mmi interviews. I had a student interviewer tell me he was having a bad day right from the beginning and he just seemed like he hated being there (just went through a list of 20 questions and then left). I think I made him laugh once though! Yay me?!

5. Do most schools do the "form" thing you mentioned? I've been at interviews where the person isn't writing ANYTHING down, some where the interviewer is going down a list of standard questions, and another where the interviewer seems to be doing what you mentioned - asking questions very specifically tailored to my application.
@LuciusV
1) Some nervousness is forgivable... this is a high stakes situation. Nervousness that seems to be part of one's personality and that could preclude satisfactory functioning on the wards could hurt an other wise adequate applicant.
2) I really want to give applicants a choice. I always beg for a few more "postage stamps" beyond what has been allotted so we can send a few more fat envelopes. But there are those people who want to protect the yield.
3) A letter of interest means you are still interested. Staying on the waitlist when you've accepted the offer of a great school seems to suggest that you are interested in attending the school whose waitlist you are on. If a school wants to protect its yield, it might go with the applicant who has no offers. If the school would prefer to raise its average MCAT/GPA rather than protect the yield, then it might go with the more highly ranked applicant.
4) I get frustrated with interviewer bias. I take into account that some people are exceptionally critical or based on a single days interviews seem to be have had a bad day. This is why many schools have more than one interviewer.
5) Schools are different, people are different. My style isn't the same as some other interviewers. I imagine that some interviewers with significant clinical interviewing skills don't need to write everything and have beautiful recall of the details when it comes to writing a note. Others need some notes.
 
LizzyM,

I do appreciate your reply, although, I am still somewhat leery about transferring in my liberal arts electives to the brick and mortar I will be attending. I wonder, do medical school ADCOM members tend to look down on applicants who have online college credits, even if those credits are in English and social science? If so, what options should I take to counterbalance adverse reactions to my application, aside from retaking the liberal arts electives at a traditional university?
@GenericQuestions
From the way courses and grades are shown on the AMCAS application, I could not tell if the courses were taken online or not.
 
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