Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition

[LizzyM]

regarding interview attire: Best and worst color/pattern for ties?

@masaraksh
This is a matter of taste. I'm very glad to see the dark shirt with dark tie fad to fade away. I don't have any strong preferences otherwise.

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[smarts1]

On another note, why is yield so important to some schools? I don't understand what the whole point of the game they play is (because undergrad admissions don't seem to care much about yield). Does it factor somehow into USNews rankings or is it that schools like to flaunt it? I know you said that sometimes schools don't want to call 10 people for one waitlist spot but there has to be more to the story than that.

 

[LizzyM]

On another note, why is yield so important to some schools? I don't understand what the whole point of the game they play is (because undergrad admissions don't seem to care much about yield). Does it factor somehow into USNews rankings or is it that schools like to flaunt it? I know you said that sometimes schools don't want to call 10 people for one waitlist spot but there has to be more to the story than that.

I'm not sure what goes into the rankings but I think that yield may play a small part. Some adcom people seem to value it highly and I've even heard one bitch about a school that she thought fudged its numbers. Others seem to put more stock on getting the best class possible than playing it safe and going with the sure thing.

 

[Great White Buffalo]

How does the interview process select between the 21 year old college junior and 25 year old 2-3 gap year person?? It seems that there is just a natural level of experience that helps a 25 year old have more maturity and experiences. Does the process take into consideration a younger person just can't have all the hours, ECs that a person 4 years older has? A Director of Admissions tweeted that at his school 70% of the matriculating 2012 class were at least 1 year out of school (hence, only 30% were directly out of undergrad). Is this a trend that will favor taking a gap year or two in your opinion??

 

[medp63]

How much is a SMP gpa taken in consideration when looking at an application? Should semester updates be sent to medical schools? Thank You.

 

[Pose]

What percentage of people you interview are obviously nervous, like shaking, sweating, shaky voice, etc.?

How do you perceive the answer "I don't know" to interview questions? Especially with policy questions, or questions that don't have an obvious right answer.

 

[SN12357]

On another note, why is yield so important to some schools? I don't understand what the whole point of the game they play is (because undergrad admissions don't seem to care much about yield). Does it factor somehow into USNews rankings or is it that schools like to flaunt it? I know you said that sometimes schools don't want to call 10 people for one waitlist spot but there has to be more to the story than that.

Not sure where you got the information that yield isn't important at the undergrad level--at pretty much any school that is primarily residential, yield is extremely important in undergrad admissions. Yield may be less important at commuter schools or large state schools but I promise you the ivies, Stanford, MIT, the small elite liberal arts colleges, etc all spend a LOT of time thinking about yield. Not necessarily because of rankings but because of resource/space issues.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Thanks for your input!

Do you prefer to read the description of activities and work experiences on AMCAS in a prose style instead of a bullet presentation?

Does weaving a consistent narrative throughout one's application make a significant difference?

I'm sure you've answered this question across space and time on these forums, but would you mind detailing some of the qualities an admissions committee might view as diverse, unique, and beneficial to an entering class?

Something that I gambled on this application cycle was highlighting my sense of humor as a potential source of "diversity" that I might bring to a school; however, when it came time to interview, I felt incredibly uncomfortable simply talking about my "sense of humor," and how I like to laugh and make others laugh. I tried to tell stories to convey my humor, especially as a tool to help others, but I don't think they felt right. The anxiety and tension on my part definitely made it difficult to "be myself," especially compounded with my uncertainty about trying to be "funny" in a professional setting. Do you think advertising a sense of humor is a high-risk move, not worth pursuing so strongly?

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Which is more likely to count for BCPM- Human Nutrition through Biology Department or Exercise Physiology through Biology Department?

 

[sunflower18]

Thanks for your help I have another question.

I am a traditional student, but I have a unique background due to intensive childhood exposure to the arts. Should I emphasise this in my application? Should I spend time in my PS addressing how I got from being on an art track to applying for med school?

 

[masaraksh]

Thanks for your input!

Do you prefer to read the description of activities and work experiences on AMCAS in a prose style instead of a bullet presentation?

Does weaving a consistent narrative throughout one's application make a significant difference?

I'm sure you've answered this question across space and time on these forums, but would you mind detailing some of the qualities an admissions committee might view as diverse, unique, and beneficial to an entering class?

Something that I gambled on this application cycle was highlighting my sense of humor as a potential source of "diversity" that I might bring to a school; however, when it came time to interview, I felt incredibly uncomfortable simply talking about my "sense of humor," and how I like to laugh and make others laugh. I tried to tell stories to convey my humor, especially as a tool to help others, but I don't think they felt right. The anxiety and tension on my part definitely made it difficult to "be myself," especially compounded with my uncertainty about trying to be "funny" in a professional setting. Do you think advertising a sense of humor is a high-risk move, not worth pursuing so strongly?

I hope this isn't "yourself":

"My sense of humor helped me get through the grueling time of volunteering and shadowing at the local hospital and it brought diversity to the hospital environment. Everyone loved my jokes about amputees and incontinence!"

 

[Derpz]

as a transfer from a modest 4 year to a top 5 ranked school will I be judged differently from my current peers? are there are any perks from my new pedigree following the transfer? I'm aiming for more strongly funded schools and an academic career. All of my required BCPM classes were taken prior to transferring and I will only have taken 1 or 2 BCPM classes, all electives/not a science major, at my new school prior to applying. I am a vet, considerably older, and thus a glide year to wait on more grades doesn't appeal. Assuming I maintain the same GPA through application time (3.9+ cGPA & sGPA) will that be enough to please adcoms? No definitive info on how transfers stack up in the process. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge!

 

[LizzyM]

How does the interview process select between the 21 year old college junior and 25 year old 2-3 gap year person?? It seems that there is just a natural level of experience that helps a 25 year old have more maturity and experiences. Does the process take into consideration a younger person just can't have all the hours, ECs that a person 4 years older has? A Director of Admissions tweeted that at his school 70% of the matriculating 2012 class were at least 1 year out of school (hence, only 30% were directly out of undergrad). Is this a trend that will favor taking a gap year or two in your opinion??

@Great White Buffalo
Age and years out of school are not on our rating sheet. What are the grades and scores? what activities have the applicant engaged in? what evidence to we have that this applicant would be a good fit at our school? If one of those applicants is stronger than the other, one might get an interview and the other will not. The younger one won't get a pass because they are younger. This may cause schools to trend toward non-trads and applicants who have take a gap year or two but the last time I looked the applicants with the best odds of being admitted were 21-22 years of age.

 

[LizzyM]

How much is a SMP gpa taken in consideration when looking at an application? Should semester updates be sent to medical schools? Thank You.

@medp63 Given the typical gpa and MCAT of the applicants who are successful in making it through the first screen at a top 20 research institution; we don't see many (any) SMP applicants. I suppose a semester update might help if the school has you under consideration and the update indicates that your recent academic performance is strong.

 

[LizzyM]

What percentage of people you interview are obviously nervous, like shaking, sweating, shaky voice, etc.?

How do you perceive the answer "I don't know" to interview questions? Especially with policy questions, or questions that don't have an obvious right answer.

@Pose
It is very rare (maybe <1% that I see someone who is a complete mess in terms of nerves.
"I don't know" is a very honest answer so points for honesty. If this is something that an applicant should know or should be able to express an opinion on, then saying "I don't know" could be a negative.

 

[RocDiva4040]

Hi LizzyM!

Thank you so much for doing this. I was wondering, by this time of year are my chances of getting another interview invite pretty much over? I was complete in mid-late August at all of my schools, and the schools I'm still waiting to hear back from seem to all not reject until February or March, so I'm thinking I might have been rejected by all of them by now.

Similarly, I received 8 interview invites and 7 of them were from schools ranked 30 or lower, while one was top 10. This seems very weird to me. Is it possible that more schools in the top 25 will be offering me interview invites in January or was the one top 10 school kind of a fluke?

Thanks again

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for your input!

Do you prefer to read the description of activities and work experiences on AMCAS in a prose style instead of a bullet presentation?

Does weaving a consistent narrative throughout one's application make a significant difference?

I'm sure you've answered this question across space and time on these forums, but would you mind detailing some of the qualities an admissions committee might view as diverse, unique, and beneficial to an entering class?

Something that I gambled on this application cycle was highlighting my sense of humor as a potential source of "diversity" that I might bring to a school; however, when it came time to interview, I felt incredibly uncomfortable simply talking about my "sense of humor," and how I like to laugh and make others laugh. I tried to tell stories to convey my humor, especially as a tool to help others, but I don't think they felt right. The anxiety and tension on my part definitely made it difficult to "be myself," especially compounded with my uncertainty about trying to be "funny" in a professional setting. Do you think advertising a sense of humor is a high-risk move, not worth pursuing so strongly?

@Donald Kimball
I have no preference regarding the descriptions of work experiences. I skim them anyway. I seldom read every word anymore.
One person's consistent narrative is another persons's one dimensional application. And some people find a theme across the application and interview to be cheesy (I knew someone who made "collaboration" to be his buzz word and it almost killed his chances ... he was lucky to get off the waitlist in the end.)
Unique qualities are unique and rare; there is a diversity of diverse qualities. Like taking a scoop of tossed salad, you want a little of everything, even if it means making an extra effort to get a few of those cherry tomatoes.
Trying to act a certain way in an interview usually backfires. If you go in with the goal of being yourself and keeping in mind that this is a professional interview, you will be 9/10th of the way to doing well.

 

[LizzyM]

Which is more likely to count for BCPM- Human Nutrition through Biology Department or Exercise Physiology through Biology Department?

@notajock2day
I really don't have much experience in this area but I would expect that anything with a Bio prefix is going to be BCPM (e.g. BIO 207, BIO 333.)

 

[dontb2clinical]

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions!

I have one that has been briefly touched on at elsewhere in this thread-- merit aid.
I received a very generous merit aid package at the time of acceptance from a top 20 school, that is not my top choice.

Some folks have suggested that I use this financial offer as "leverage" once I get the rest of my decisions in march, to try and get merit aid or more merit aid at a school I would rather attend.

I don't really know what to think about this advice-- if it makes total sense or if it's actually quite ridiculous.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much, and happy holidays

 

[Great White Buffalo]

With Universities moving toward the transition of research to application, are adcoms seeing patent applications in the same light as publications?? I am a computer programmer with no publications, but worked on a clinical imaging project that produced 2 provisional patents what I was named co-inventor. Seems some schools like it, and others totally rejected it. What are your thoughts on patents in general on an application? Are you seeing more of them mentioned??

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for your help I have another question.

I am a traditional student, but I have a unique background due to intensive childhood exposure to the arts. Should I emphasise this in my application? Should I spend time in my PS addressing how I got from being on an art track to applying for med school?

@sunflower18 Your job on the AMCAS is to tell the story of how you became interested in medicine and how you have further tested this interest and why you think that you are well suited to a career in medicine and how you have prepared yourself for this career. If your intensive childhood exposure to the arts is part of the story, then include it. If it is not, then leave it out. If there is something exceptional/memorable about your childhood experience (e.g. you were a child star of stage and screen) then that can serve as a hook but if you took a lot of classes and performed in your hometown the story might be less compelling but you have to decide what fits in the narrative you want to tell.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Working on admissions at a top 20 (top 10?) institution, do you interview applicants who have an air of entitlement and, if so how do you deal with them?

 

[LizzyM]

as a transfer from a modest 4 year to a top 5 ranked school will I be judged differently from my current peers? are there are any perks from my new pedigree following the transfer? I'm aiming for more strongly funded schools and an academic career. All of my required BCPM classes were taken prior to transferring and I will only have taken 1 or 2 BCPM classes, all electives/not a science major, at my new school prior to applying. I am a vet, considerably older, and thus a glide year to wait on more grades doesn't appeal. Assuming I maintain the same GPA through application time (3.9+ cGPA & sGPA) will that be enough to please adcoms? No definitive info on how transfers stack up in the process. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge!

@Derpz As a non-trad and a veteran you will be judged differently tan your current peers and I mean that in a good way. There is nothing shabby about graduating from a top 5 research university. given your gpa and your military service, I would not expect you to have a problem getting interview invites provided you have a good explanation as to why you want to do medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM!

Thank you so much for doing this. I was wondering, by this time of year are my chances of getting another interview invite pretty much over? I was complete in mid-late August at all of my schools, and the schools I'm still waiting to hear back from seem to all not reject until February or March, so I'm thinking I might have been rejected by all of them by now.

Similarly, I received 8 interview invites and 7 of them were from schools ranked 30 or lower, while one was top 10. This seems very weird to me. Is it possible that more schools in the top 25 will be offering me interview invites in January or was the one top 10 school kind of a fluke?

Thanks again

@RocDiva4040 It seems to me that the season may be over for you. My guess is that the one top 10 school was a fluke... perhaps something about your application just stirred something in a reviewer and in the luck of the draw, you got lucky at that school. Here's hoping that one of those interviews turns into an offer.

 

[plumazul]

Happy Holidays, LizzyM, and thank you for what you do on SDN.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for answering all of these questions!

I have one that has been briefly touched on at elsewhere in this thread-- merit aid.
I received a very generous merit aid package at the time of acceptance from a top 20 school, that is not my top choice.

Some folks have suggested that I use this financial offer as "leverage" once I get the rest of my decisions in march, to try and get merit aid or more merit aid at a school I would rather attend.

I don't really know what to think about this advice-- if it makes total sense or if it's actually quite ridiculous.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much, and happy holidays

I know someone who did this... he actually had the balls to drop an offer from a top 10 school and told them that he couldn't afford it (daycare costs hadn't been factored in -- his wife was working but there would be a shortfall in their budget). Miracle of miracles, the top school kicked more money his way. He was an outstanding applicant who Harvard & Hopkins were fighting over with about six other schools in the mix... YMMV.

 

[LizzyM]

With Universities moving toward the transition of research to application, are adcoms seeing patent applications in the same light as publications?? I am a computer programmer with no publications, but worked on a clinical imaging project that produced 2 provisional patents what I was named co-inventor. Seems some schools like it, and others totally rejected it. What are your thoughts on patents in general on an application? Are you seeing more of them mentioned??

@Great White Buffalo
As you have experienced, some schools will like this and some won't seem to be impressed. I've seen a couple of applicants with patents this year but it is very rare in comparison to publications.

 

[dontb2clinical]

I know someone who did this... he actually had the balls to drop an offer from a top 10 school and told them that he couldn't afford it (daycare costs hadn't been factored in -- his wife was working but there would be a shortfall in their budget). Miracle of miracles, the top school kicked more money his way. He was an outstanding applicant who Harvard & Hopkins were fighting over with about six other schools in the mix... YMMV.

Wow. Not sure I would have the guts.
Thanks for this though!

 

[LizzyM]

Working on admissions at a top 20 (top 10?) institution, do you interview applicants who have an air of entitlement and, if so how do you deal with them?

@GandalfTheWhite
Oh, how did you guess?!? I deal with them by giving them a smack down. There is no room for a prima donna in the first year class.

 

[futuredoc95]

.

 

[RocDiva4040]

@RocDiva4040 It seems to me that the season may be over for you. My guess is that the one top 10 school was a fluke... perhaps something about your application just stirred something in a reviewer and in the luck of the draw, you got lucky at that school. Here's hoping that one of those interviews turns into an offer.

Yep that's what I figured. Thanks for answering!

 

[kittykattat]

Happy Holidays LizzyM!

I was wondering if you have ever recognized an applicant on sdn from reviewing his file or recognized his file from previously reading his comments on SDN? And if this has ever happened, have you then been tempted to snoop around his SDN account a little more just to get a feel for his personality traits/seek out obnoxious or ungrateful posts/etc.?

 

[No Limits]

@GandalfTheWhite
Oh, how did you guess?!? I deal with them by giving them a smack down. There is no room for a prima donna in the first year class.

First of all, LOL at this. Something about this reminded me of the rock back in the days...

I'm a little late to this party but it's okay I'm never on schedule but I'm always on time

Thanks for doing this, I'm forever grateful that people like you continue to do wonderful things like this. Huge part of the reason SDN is what it is in my opinion.

 

[No Limits]

I’ve been having trouble with my tentative school list for the upcoming cycle. I love research but would rather not do the MD/PhD route. However, research is definitely something I want to do in med school and will most likely be needed anyway. Would you recommend adding more schools with research embedded in the curriculum or does it really not matter? I’m a Florida resident and none of the schools here appear to significantly devote time to research. Would it be unwise to not all apply to all the medical schools in my state to make room for other research oriented schools? I’m thinking of applying to 4 out of the 7…


I joined clubs early in college purely out of interest but have never held a leadership position with any of them despite the fact I’ve been a regular member for a couple years. Just to make sure, these are not worth mentioning on my app right?


If you were a pre-med shadowing a pretty rude older surgeon who constantly pimps you in the O.R. then rips you a new one when you answer incorrectly, would you stop shadowing him or be grateful for the opportunity, smile and continue shadowing?

 

[Great White Buffalo]

@GandalfTheWhite
Oh, how did you guess?!? I deal with them by giving them a smack down. There is no room for a prima donna in the first year class.

Would love to watch that!!

 

[Great White Buffalo]

@Great White Buffalo
As you have experienced, some schools will like this and some won't seem to be impressed. I've seen a couple of applicants with patents this year but it is very rare in comparison to publications.

Thank you for the confirmation. Makes me unique, but maybe too unique!~ And many thanks for all your posts in the last year, found them to be very helpful, especially when setting the record straight on posts. Happy Holidays!!

 

[Great White Buffalo]

Happy Holidays LizzyM!

I was wondering if you have ever recognized an applicant on sdn from reviewing his file or recognized his file from previously reading his comments on SDN? And if this has ever happened, have you then been tempted to snoop around his SDN account a little more just to get a feel for his personality traits/seek out obnoxious or ungrateful posts/etc.?

Isn't that avatar cutthroat b*$ch from House?? I think if some adcom was snooping, the avatar alone might nix you! ha ha ha. Looks like you already had lots of good karma going your way. Congrats

 

[masaraksh]

My guess is Johns Hopkins. A bunch of people spell it John Hopkins.

Shhhh. we don't talk about this anymore

 

[Tradewinds]

Do you have any strong opinions on nurses applying? Do committee members see these applicants in a unique light, or is it simply looked at as something similar to a premed with a patient care tech type job? (ICU in particular). Or...is it looked at negatively :/
Also, in regards to shadowing physicians and how that is viewed by admissions, would you recommend shadowing a number of different specialties outside of the ones I have worked in over the last 3 years, even if I feel that I have a strong idea of what the profession might be like?

Thanks for taking time out for us!!

 

[Espadaleader]

Hello LizzyM. Thanks for answering my first question. I have a second. What impact will MCAT2015 have on medical admissions? The popular opinion is that the new exam is an improvement. Honestly, I think that is a load of crock. Students already struggling to fit in prereqs will have to fit in psych & socio, study for another content section, and pay for rapidly increasing exam courses. I anticipate a decline in medical admissions from low income and minority students.

 

[dododo121]

What portions of the application do you give most attention to? Also, was there ever a PS you read that made you think "We have to admit this person."?

 

[nyc1990]

ffs, can everyone please stop guessing LizzyM's institution? How is that a fun game to play, when you know this probably angers her. Plus, it's annoying when I'm trying to read LizzyM's comments and I see a dumb posting in between like "OMG, it's DEF Hopkins, LOLOLOL". Honestly, just stop.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

ffs, can everyone please stop guessing LizzyM's institution? How is that a fun game to play, when you know this probably angers her. Plus, it's annoying when I'm trying to read LizzyM's comments and I see a dumb posting in between like "OMG, it's DEF Hopkins, LOLOLOL". Honestly, just stop.

I would guess that she is more amused than angered by a frantic bunch of pre-med students trying to figure out which school she works at.

Besides, there are no stupid questions. Only stupid people.

 

[rudziutki]

ffs, can everyone please stop guessing LizzyM's institution? How is that a fun game to play, when you know this probably angers her. Plus, it's annoying when I'm trying to read LizzyM's comments and I see a dumb posting in between like "OMG, it's DEF Hopkins, LOLOLOL". Honestly, just stop.

 

[Endure]

Hi LizzyM,

Thank you so much for doing this. You're truly an asset to SDN. I'm asking this question on behalf of those who have already been accepted to multiple schools:

From your perspective as an administrator, what do you think are some of the most important things a student should be looking for in a medical school? Should rankings be seriously considered when deciding, or is fit, location and student welfare more important? Are there factors that get paid more attention than they deserve (like match lists)? At what point is the difference in tuition between two schools negligible?

I seem to be going about this by asking myself where it is I would be happiest, but I feel like this approach is simplistic for something as critical as medical education.

Thank you so much!

 

[anon12380]

LizzyM,

I attend a LAC (top 10), where the average GPA for medical acceptances is 3.2 sGPA and cGPA. Now, my friend attends a state school where he states, and I agree with him, that a 3.7 sGPA and cGPA are the threshold for being considered a strong applicant (assuming all other aspects of one's resume are good). What is your opinion on this? (At the moment, as a sophomore, I have around a 2.8 sGPA and a cGPA of 3.2)

Have a blessed holiday!

 

[blahblahblagh]

LizzyM, does it look unfavorably if an applicant's motive for taking a gap year or 2 is not super substantive (wanting more time for the MCAT, not feeling as mentally/emotionally prepared for med school)?

 

[medp63]

@medp63 Given the typical gpa and MCAT of the applicants who are successful in making it through the first screen at a top 20 research institution; we don't see many (any) SMP applicants. I suppose a semester update might help if the school has you under consideration and the update indicates that your recent academic performance is strong.

Thanks for your reply. Some people do SMP's because they were not ready to apply the earlier year (wanted senior year grades in upper science classes to count and mcat not taken). I thought it would be a good way to spend a gap year and get more experience in the field. I am surprised your school never sees anyone who is currently doing a SMP.

 

[sourdoughllama]

LizzyM,

Is sending an additional letter of rec to schools you're waitlisted at helpful? Assuming it's a strong letter from an area of your app that is considered the weakest. Thanks!

 

[smz813]

Hi Lizzy,

I was wondering if you could tell me how the admissions process differs between MD and MD/PhD. I will be applying MD/PhD next cycle and most of my advising has been for straight MD. I have a 3.99 GPA, will be taking the MCAT this spring, one peer reviewed article and an abstract, with another journal article coming out by application time and possibly one additional. However I feel that I am weak as far as hospital volunteering as I spend most of my time at the lab or TAing. I have done volunteering activities that have not related to medicine as well as volunteered at the ED but after realizing all I was doing was making sure the cabinets were properly stocked, I didn't think it was a good use of my time. I do spend time shadowing at clinic with my PI and wanted to include a story about a patient in my PS but I have heard differing opinions on including shadowing given that it is a "passive" activity. How will this be viewed?