Ask LizzyM Anything 2013 edition

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Thanks for taking time out of your vacation to answer all of these questions!

How much will a >4-year old institutional action affect my application? Does that come in to play prior to issuing an interview invite or in the post-interview review? I've had a plethora of pre-interview rejections but also a couple of waitlists after interviews at top 20 schools which I thought went well.
 
LizzyM, I first want to thank you for taking your time and answering our questions!

Do you feel being in a research program the summer you apply to medical school is beneficial to an application since you would only be able to write the program, professor, and project you are working on? This is coming from someone who has done over a year of research at their home university but wanted a new experience.

Thank you and have a very happy holiday season!
 
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If I submitted my AMCAS on 8/7 (verified 10/10), how hard did I screw myself over?

Edit: you already answered this for someone else. Happy holidays!
 
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kittykattat said:
Happy Holidays LizzyM!

I was wondering if you have ever recognized an applicant on sdn from reviewing his file or recognized his file from previously reading his comments on SDN? And if this has ever happened, have you then been tempted to snoop around his SDN account a little more just to get a feel for his personality traits/seek out obnoxious or ungrateful posts/etc.?
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@kittykattat
Yes. Years ago someone PM'ed me and asked if he should wear his military uniform for his first interview. The next day I interviewed a guy in uniform. There was no doubt that this was someone who knew me as LizzyM. I didn't reveal my identify then but I did later. We ended up becoming good friends after his application decision was made (he was admitted).
 
No Limits said:
I’ve been having trouble with my tentative school list for the upcoming cycle. I love research but would rather not do the MD/PhD route. However, research is definitely something I want to do in med school and will most likely be needed anyway. Would you recommend adding more schools with research embedded in the curriculum or does it really not matter? I’m a Florida resident and none of the schools here appear to significantly devote time to research. Would it be unwise to not all apply to all the medical schools in my state to make room for other research oriented schools? I’m thinking of applying to 4 out of the 7…


I joined clubs early in college purely out of interest but have never held a leadership position with any of them despite the fact I’ve been a regular member for a couple years. Just to make sure, these are not worth mentioning on my app right?


If you were a pre-med shadowing a pretty rude older surgeon who constantly pimps you in the O.R. then rips you a new one when you answer incorrectly, would you stop shadowing him or be grateful for the opportunity, smile and continue shadowing?
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@No Limits
Glad to have you at the party.
You have 7 instate schools. Remove from the list any that you would not attend even if they were your only offer. Add additional schools (with a research focus if that is your desire) to make 12-15. You can apply to all your state schools and still have room for research schools.

You are under no obligation to list every club you've ever belonged to. Leave them out if you don't find them relevant.

"If you were a pre-med" is a hypothetical question and I don't answer those.
 
Reckoner said:
LizzyM,

Should I keep my beard or start 2014 clean-shaven?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
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@Reckoner
Ask the Weegie board ... or your significant other. Leave me out of it. Unless you look like a member of the Boston Red Sox team in which case you should shave it off today!
 
Tradewinds said:
Do you have any strong opinions on nurses applying? Do committee members see these applicants in a unique light, or is it simply looked at as something similar to a premed with a patient care tech type job? (ICU in particular). Or...is it looked at negatively :/
Also, in regards to shadowing physicians and how that is viewed by admissions, would you recommend shadowing a number of different specialties outside of the ones I have worked in over the last 3 years, even if I feel that I have a strong idea of what the profession might be like?

Thanks for taking time out for us!!
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@Tradewinds
No strong opinion myself. They are regarded as having significant clinical experience and better than average knowledge of the health care environment. That's not enough to get an interview but it is a plus.
Shadow until you have an idea of what a career in medicine can involve and you feel as if you have enough information to know that medicine is the right career for you. Beyond that, why would you do it?
 
LizzyM said:
@Reckoner
Ask the Weegie board ... or your significant other. Leave me out of it. Unless you look like a member of the Boston Red Sox team in which case you should shave it off today!
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On a more serious note, thanks for everything you do for this forum. I know my application would have been weaker had I never read your advice. Happy holidays!

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 
Espadaleader said:
Hello LizzyM. Thanks for answering my first question. I have a second. What impact will MCAT2015 have on medical admissions? The popular opinion is that the new exam is an improvement. Honestly, I think that is a load of crock. Students already struggling to fit in prereqs will have to fit in psych & socio, study for another content section, and pay for rapidly increasing exam courses. I anticipate a decline in medical admissions from low income and minority students.
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@Espadaleader
I have no idea what things will be like in the 2015 cycle. I'm not even finished with this one and I've got another between now and then.
We have always wanted broadly educated applicants so many are already taking coursework in psychology/sociology. Really, there are only 8 or 9 pre-reqs out of about 40 courses you can take in your 4 years of college.
Some people prep for the exam without a prep course. Some summer programs for minority and low income students include test prep sessions. Medicine is changing and the test is changing to meet those challenges. Don't cry about it; man up!
 
dododo121 said:
What portions of the application do you give most attention to? Also, was there ever a PS you read that made you think "We have to admit this person."?
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@dododo121
I tend to read after a first reader has issued an opinion. I tend to check areas that might in be in dispute. If the first reader says that a letter was negative, I read the letters. If they note that the applicant had no ___, I look to confirm or refute that finding. If everything is great, I make a second pass over the secondary.

If I read a PS , I might think, "we have to interview this person" but I wouldn't jump to, "we have to admit this person." One step at a time.
 
Endure said:
Hi LizzyM,

Thank you so much for doing this. You're truly an asset to SDN. I'm asking this question on behalf of those who have already been accepted to multiple schools:

From your perspective as an administrator, what do you think are some of the most important things a student should be looking for in a medical school? Should rankings be seriously considered when deciding, or is fit, location and student welfare more important? Are there factors that get paid more attention than they deserve (like match lists)? At what point is the difference in tuition between two schools negligible?

I seem to be going about this by asking myself where it is I would be happiest, but I feel like this approach is simplistic for something as critical as medical education.

Thank you so much!
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@Endure
Once upon a time, long, long ago, LizzyM had multiple offers to graduate school. I made a list with the names of the schools across the top and a list of the factors that were important to me along the left side of the page and then I put +, ++, +++ and - signs in the corresponding cells with regard to how I assessed each school on each quality. It became obvious which was my first choice. The qualities that each person looks for in a school and how highly they value each is a very personal decision. Someone with multiple offers should be smart enough to know what they are looking for and how each school stacks up.
 
GOK<3 said:
I had a late application. I was complete at most schools mid to late October and haven't received an II yet.. just a handful of rejections and holds. It's almost January should I expect any II or is it over for me 🙁? Do all schools average your MCAT scores? My lizzy M score is a 68.4(without averaging MCAT scores) and 65(taking the average). Wondering if that's what is holding me back or just my late app.
Thank you LizzyM and happy holidays!!
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@GOK<3
A late application is not good and what's worse, the second time around, the adcom will not know why you were rejected the first time, just that you have had to reapply.
Some schools interview in Feb and even March or later so it is still possible to get an interview invite. That said, I wouldn't expect interview invites at this point except from schools that have a LizzyM average of 65 or less.
 
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AHRATHORE12 said:
LizzyM,

I attend a LAC (top 10), where the average GPA for medical acceptances is 3.2 sGPA and cGPA. Now, my friend attends a state school where he states, and I agree with him, that a 3.7 sGPA and cGPA are the threshold for being considered a strong applicant (assuming all other aspects of one's resume are good). What is your opinion on this? (At the moment, as a sophomore, I have around a 2.8 sGPA and a cGPA of 3.2)

Have a blessed holiday!
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Transfer to your friend's school. /jk

Your gpa is below average even for your school which is a wretched one for pre-meds. Some med schools may know your school's reputation and cut you some slack but others will cut you off without a backwards glance because too many students like you and their avg GPA will tank.

wishing you a blessed holiday, @AHRATHORE12
 
LizzyM I know you have a PhD, so I'll ask for your opinion on this. With the state of the research field these days (and cuts in research funding), where do you envision the field going within the next 10-15 years? It seems like grants are harder to come by these days, and even if a PI gets one, they seem to be of shorter length and less funds than before (plus more multi-investigator projects).
 
blahblahblagh said:
LizzyM, does it look unfavorably if an applicant's motive for taking a gap year or 2 is not super substantive (wanting more time for the MCAT, not feeling as mentally/emotionally prepared for med school)?
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@blahblahblagh

Do you think such an applicant would look different from someone who did not take any gap or who took a gap year or two to do something substantive like Peace Corps or NIH research, who took the MCAT in the Spring before applying and who felt mentally prepared for medical school? Do you think that an adcom would look less favorably on the former? Why ask me a question you may already know the answer to?
 
medp63 said:
Thanks for your reply. Some people do SMP's because they were not ready to apply the earlier year (wanted senior year grades in upper science classes to count and mcat not taken). I thought it would be a good way to spend a gap year and get more experience in the field. I am surprised your school never sees anyone who is currently doing a SMP.
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@medp63
A SMP is equivalent to the first year of medical school and is supposed to be a way to show that one has the ability to do well in medical school. Typically, it is a way to show your stuff and remediate a poor undergrad science record. We don't see people who need to remediate.

Most of the people we see will take a gap year to work in research and or get a MS in biomedical engineering or biochemistry or something like that.
 
Art V. said:
LizzyM, I first want to thank you for taking your time and answering our questions!

Do you feel being in a research program the summer you apply to medical school is beneficial to an application since you would only be able to write the program, professor, and project you are working on? This is coming from someone who has done over a year of research at their home university but wanted a new experience.

Thank you and have a very happy holiday season!
Click to expand...

@Art V.
Doing some research the summer that you apply is fine. It might be something to talk about at interviews, it could help you develop additional skills that will be helpful in the future.
 
1)Given the sheer amount of applications most schools receive, does every applicant get a fair chance to have their application reviewed/looked at ? (Given they meet the cut off 3.0 32 MCAT, or whatever it is)

2) I just want to hear your opinion on the following question. In 2015-2016 application cycle, what problem, if any, do you predict occurring when comparing applicants with the current version of the MCAT vs. the 2015 MCAT?

BTW best thread every! Happy holidays to you.
 
smarts1 said:
LizzyM I know you have a PhD, so I'll ask for your opinion on this. With the state of the research field these days (and cuts in research funding), where do you envision the field going within the next 10-15 years? It seems like grants are harder to come by these days, and even if a PI gets one, they seem to be of shorter length and less funds than before (plus more multi-investigator projects).
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@smarts1
Life's a bitch and then you die. If you can't imagine being happy any other way than being a scientific investigator, go for it knowing that it is a hard road and one that is getting harder. That said, it is not impossible and hard work can pay off. So can the lottery. Some days it seems like grant funding is as hard as winning the lottery but it is based on merit, not on luck so if you are good you have a shot. LizzyM wishes her @SilentSoldier would come around with a (micro craft) beer so she could cry in it.
 
Well, since I don't know where you are Lizzy, I guess I could just show up to all the East Coast schools with some beers and hope I find you before I send myself to the poorhouse. You prefer light or dark beer? Maybe I should ask a medical school related question :laugh:
 
SilentSoldier said:
Well, since I don't know where you are Lizzy, I guess I could just show up to all the East Coast schools with some beers and hope I find you before I send myself to the poorhouse. You prefer light or dark beer? Maybe I should ask a medical school related question :laugh:
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Hey maybe delivering beer to all those adcoms might just work out in your favor
 
Hi LizzyM. Why don't more schools have pre-secondary screens? It seems that it would make life easier for both applicants (less secondaries to fill out) and adcoms (less applications to read).
 
Happy Holidays!!

At your medical school, is second look weekend an accurate representation of the program/students? What do you think a well put together second look weekend should do for applicants? My college has a weekend when high schooler's visit and absolutely all the stops are pulled...the students get a rather false idea of what living conditions/atmosphere/food/students are like....but I guess if everyone does it :shrug:
 
Hi LizzyM,
Thank you so much for taking the time out to do this. I just completed a post-bacc at a prestigous NY school and am currently in my gap year. I have a LizzyM score of a 66 and applied to around 30 schools (complete in mid-August). I'm sitting on about 10 rejections, on hold on about 8 other schools, and silence from the rest. I was wondering if being on hold ever has any success of garnering an interview in the new year and hopefully an acceptance as I really do not want to take another year off. Are there still a lot of interviews to be had at the start of the new year? Thanks so much again.
 
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LizzyM said:
@blahblahblagh

Do you think such an applicant would look different from someone who did not take any gap or who took a gap year or two to do something substantive like Peace Corps or NIH research, who took the MCAT in the Spring before applying and who felt mentally prepared for medical school? Do you think that an adcom would look less favorably on the former? Why ask me a question you may already know the answer to?
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Does it have to be something extreme like NIH research? What about just continuing at the lab you were at during undergrad (granted you were doing substantial research and not just bench work)?
 
rudziutki said:
Hi LizzyM. Why don't more schools have pre-secondary screens? It seems that it would make life easier for both applicants (less secondaries to fill out) and adcoms (less applications to read).
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@rudziutki
I agree. However, sometimes that means snubbing a really excellent applicant who just doesn't meet the screen but who turns out to be a gem. Furthermore, it tends to screen out some people who for "political" reasons need to be given every consideration. Better to self-screen yourself to avoid wasting your money.
 
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SilentSoldier said:
Well, since I don't know where you are Lizzy, I guess I could just show up to all the East Coast schools with some beers and hope I find you before I send myself to the poorhouse. You prefer light or dark beer? Maybe I should ask a medical school related question :laugh:
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@SilentSoldier I've got my own winter ale here. Drink your beer in Cali and dream of some Left Coast love. You've got the interviews; now make them count!
 
krefetz1 said:
Hi LizzyM,
Thank you so much for taking the time out to do this. I just completed a post-bacc at a prestigous NY school and am currently in my gap year. I have a LizzyM score of a 66 and applied to around 30 schools (complete in mid-August). I'm sitting on about 10 rejections, on hold on about 8 other schools, and silence from the rest. I was wondering if being on hold ever has any success of garnering an interview in the new year and hopefully an acceptance as I really do not want to take another year off. Are there still a lot of interviews to be had at the start of the new year? Thanks so much again.
Click to expand...
@krefetz1

It is hard for me to know what is going on at 29 schools other than my own. A LizzyM score of 66 is on the low side for many schools and without knowing where you applied, I couldn't even guess if you have a prayer of getting interviewed in the new year. You can look at the interview feedback for each school and get an idea for the dates on which people have interviewed in years past. Some schools have 10-15% of their interview invites yet to send so there is some hope but it all depends on how you stack up to the applicants that the school is most interested in.
 
What's the general consensus on a "good" GPA for a special master's program (SMP)?
 
kyamh said:
Happy Holidays!!

At your medical school, is second look weekend an accurate representation of the program/students? What do you think a well put together second look weekend should do for applicants? My college has a weekend when high schooler's visit and absolutely all the stops are pulled...the students get a rather false idea of what living conditions/atmosphere/food/students are like....but I guess if everyone does it :shrug:
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@kyamh

I have no idea about second look. I think that everyone tries to put their best foot forward.
 
Fedxup said:
1)Given the sheer amount of applications most schools receive, does every applicant get a fair chance to have their application reviewed/looked at ? (Given they meet the cut off 3.0 32 MCAT, or whatever it is)

2) I just want to hear your opinion on the following question. In 2015-2016 application cycle, what problem, if any, do you predict occurring when comparing applicants with the current version of the MCAT vs. the 2015 MCAT?

BTW best thread every! Happy holidays to you.
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@Fedxup
1) Every applicant who makes the cut gets 2 reviewers attention and then a final set of eyeballs before an interview offer is made.
2) If the total score is different than the current scoring system (e.g. the average isn't isn't in the high 20s with a max of 44 or 45) there will be a bit of a learning curve. Otherwise, nothing will be much different. I don't expect it to be as bad as 2001 when we not only went to an electronic application system that went haywire but then FedEx was grounded after 9/11 followed by the fiasco at the post office with anthrax. That was a bad season.
 
If you were to guess, what MBTI (Myer Brigg's Typology) would you classify yourself as based on tests, experiences, and introspection?
 
LizzyM,

What are your thoughts on people who come from very short 'careers' in other fields, then do a post-bac, and apply to med school? (I'm talking like 2-3 years out of college max). For example econ major who worked in some non-med econ research, some health economics, etc; or a communications/business major who worked for a couple years before pursuing med; or a banker/IT/software dev...?

Is that an advantage or disadvantage when applying to top tier research school? I know a friend who is coming from a completely different field (no science classes at all in college) and isn't sure about how the app will be viewed.
 
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LizzyM, how often does a doctor work in industry? I met a doctor last summer who was working in industry, and I wanted to ask him why he was working in industry, but I didn't get a chance to. I'm assuming these people have dual MD-MBA degrees?
 
Hi LizzyM,

I have a few q's about the app cycle. I submitted my application in early-mid july and did most secondaries in September. I have a LizzyM score of 73-74 and have excellent EC's (objectively assessed by former admission committee members that I work with and doctors who reviewed my application). My school has an average premed gpa of 3.1 and is a top 10 (to give you some idea of my academic history without being specific). Currently, I am hearing nothing from all my top choice schools. A lot of these schools do mass rejections in March. I sent one update letter already to these schools (for a publication). I work ~100 hours/week (already graduated) but am also planning on taking a class this semester and devoting a significant amount of time to a hobby of mine. Do you think this is worth updating schools I haven't heard back from about? I don't want to come across desperate but I really want to express my interest and demonstrate that I would make a great addition to their class as a well-rounded academic. I am in the process of writing another paper to be submitted soon but I heard that it's useless to update about this unless the paper has been accepted. What are your thoughts? Might be hard to answer given the vagueness of my post but any advice would be appreciated. I can PM you if you think more details would help. Happy holidays!

TD
 
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LizzyM said:
@No Limits

"If you were a pre-med" is a hypothetical question and I don't answer those.
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:smack: Whoops! Sorry you did say that, long day forgive me.
I think it's awesome you still volunteer. What kind of volunteering do you like to do?
 
Hi again LizzyM. I've heard numerous stories from applicants and doctors that I've worked with, and that is of students who were perhaps below par for a typical student (either stats, EC, etc.) that's admitted to US MD schools, and through actions from a benevolent "benefactor", were able to eventually gain admissions to said program(s).

I was wondering if you've ever experienced anything like this in your years as an adcom, where a student who would have been rejected outright were given extra consideration because of social connections. If so, how much of an advantage is it? Is it a thumb on the scale or more of an anvil on the scale? Thanks, your answers are always enlightening.
 
sourdoughllama said:
LizzyM,

Is sending an additional letter of rec to schools you're waitlisted at helpful? Assuming it's a strong letter from an area of your app that is considered the weakest. Thanks!
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@sourdoughllama
I'm not sure. As I've said, I have no responsibility for decisions to take people off the waitlist. However, I can't imagine that it hurts to show that your are still interested.
 
smz813 said:
Hi Lizzy,

I was wondering if you could tell me how the admissions process differs between MD and MD/PhD. I will be applying MD/PhD next cycle and most of my advising has been for straight MD. I have a 3.99 GPA, will be taking the MCAT this spring, one peer reviewed article and an abstract, with another journal article coming out by application time and possibly one additional. However I feel that I am weak as far as hospital volunteering as I spend most of my time at the lab or TAing. I have done volunteering activities that have not related to medicine as well as volunteered at the ED but after realizing all I was doing was making sure the cabinets were properly stocked, I didn't think it was a good use of my time. I do spend time shadowing at clinic with my PI and wanted to include a story about a patient in my PS but I have heard differing opinions on including shadowing given that it is a "passive" activity. How will this be viewed?
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@smz813
Include shadowing... it shows that you have been close enough to smell patients and you have some idea about doctoring as a career. Pending the results of your MCAT, you seem to be in good shape.
 
juliuspepperwood said:
Thanks for taking time out of your vacation to answer all of these questions!

How much will a >4-year old institutional action affect my application? Does that come in to play prior to issuing an interview invite or in the post-interview review? I've had a plethora of pre-interview rejections but also a couple of waitlists after interviews at top 20 schools which I thought went well.
Click to expand...
@juliuspepperwood
It depends on what the IA was about. If it is something really bad, we won't even entertain the idea of an interview. If you got an interview, then the IA wasn't an issue at that school. Of course, for plenty of folks an interview results in a temporary stop on the waitlist.
 
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