Aspen Dental for OS

[splittinwizzies]

Hi everyone, does anyone have any experience as an OS for Aspen? Is it a good gig other than the fact you have multiple offices to cover?

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[nade0016]

Hi everyone, does anyone have any experience as an OS for Aspen? Is it a good gig other than the fact you have multiple offices to cover?

Depends, I have not worked for them but I have spoken with them about a contract position. Are you an OMS resident or recent OMS grad?

 

[splittinwizzies]

Depends, I have not worked for them but I have spoken with them about a contract position. Are you an OMS resident or recent OMS grad?

I am a practicing OMS

 

[nade0016]

I am a practicing OMS

I have not seen a good, surgeon first, contracts from Aspen and you have to be careful about itinerant practice which is not allowed by the AAOMS Code of Conduct. If you are in a large city you are probably fine. Remember you will be performing OS in a dental office that may not be set up for surgery or emergencies. My experience with VC or corporate dental is that the offices don't really get OMS so your schedule may look at bit disorganized for quite a while. If you do go down that road make sure you get a $8000 - $10,000 per day minimum. This forces the offices to fill your schedule with profitable cases not just single tooth locals.

 

[bergus95]

I have not seen a good, surgeon first, contracts from Aspen and you have to be careful about itinerant practice which is not allowed by the AAOMS Code of Conduct. If you are in a large city you are probably fine. Remember you will be performing OS in a dental office that may not be set up for surgery or emergencies. My experience with VC or corporate dental is that the offices don't really get OMS so your schedule may look at bit disorganized for quite a while. If you do go down that road make sure you get a $8000 - $10,000 per day minimum. This forces the offices to fill your schedule with profitable cases not just single tooth locals.

8-10k in production or guaranteed pay?

 

[D1Bound]

8-10k in production or guaranteed pay?

My eyes opened very wide at that.

 

[DDS9994]

My eyes opened very wide at that.

I think it means 8 to 10k in production for that day, then whatever the percentage is, maybe 40%

 

[omfsing]

Nope, your 40% should be 8-10k per day

Producing 8-10K/day as an oral surgeon is very low.

 

[D1Bound]

Nope, your 40% should be 8-10k per day

Producing 8-10K/day as an oral surgeon is very low.

Wow, I know of a corp owner who told me that surgeons take home 4k a day. I didn’t realize 8k was standard.

 

[DDS9994]

Nope, your 40% should be 8-10k per day

Producing 8-10K/day as an oral surgeon is very low.

OHHHH!!!! Damn I most defintiely should have specialized , lol.

 

[bergus95]

Nope, your 40% should be 8-10k per day

Producing 8-10K/day as an oral surgeon is very low.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not. Average take home from PDS is 4K from what’s I’ve heard. Not sure if untrue or not.

 

[OncePreDent]

They should be producing significantly more than $10k a day. One of the OSs I shadowed charged around $1k per tooth for wisdom teeth & would spend a maximum of 15 minutes extracting them. Wonder why they (2 OS married) had so many nice cars, houses, and boat working 2-3 days a week lol

 

[OncePreDent]

Heck I'm not going into OMS, but recently saw a job listing in the area where I am (Utah -SLC) 2-3 days a week: salary $450k-$700k a year as an OS

 

[D1Bound]

I have not seen a good, surgeon first, contracts from Aspen and you have to be careful about itinerant practice which is not allowed by the AAOMS Code of Conduct. If you are in a large city you are probably fine. Remember you will be performing OS in a dental office that may not be set up for surgery or emergencies. My experience with VC or corporate dental is that the offices don't really get OMS so your schedule may look at bit disorganized for quite a while. If you do go down that road make sure you get a $8000 - $10,000 per day minimum. This forces the offices to fill your schedule with profitable cases not just single tooth locals.

Why is itinerant practice not allowed? I just read the code of conduct, and at the end it says that it does not apply to charity work or academic settings. So if it’s charity work all of a sudden you don’t have to form a patient relationship and such? Could you further explain

 

[bergus95]

They should be producing significantly more than $10k a day. One of the OSs I shadowed charged around $1k per tooth for wisdom teeth & would spend a maximum of 15 minutes extracting them. Wonder why they (2 OS married) had so many nice cars, houses, and boat working 2-3 days a week lol

A bit of a stretch with the 1k a tooth, but I get the point 😂

 

[OncePreDent]

A bit of a stretch with the 1k a tooth, but I get the point 😂

From the cases that I saw, it was around $1k ($700-$950); not sure what the average is. I have been hearing that some OS have been doing PRF after extractions and charging an additional $600 (no clue if this is right). I've been to a couple of seminars on PRF use in OS & it sounds useful for patient recovery.

 

[Ivy.ch]

From the cases that I saw, it was around $1k ($700-$950); not sure what the average is. I have been hearing that some OS have been doing PRF after extractions and charging an additional $600 (no clue if this is right). I've been to a couple of seminars on PRF use in OS & it sounds useful for patient recovery.

Tell a patient it reduces dry socket risk (which is does according to the literature), and if they’ve ever had dry socket or know someone personally who has, they are glad to pay to reduce that risk.

 

[omfsing]

I can’t tell if that’s sarcasm or not. Average take home from PDS is 4K from what’s I’ve heard. Not sure if untrue or not.

I work part time for PDS, on slow days in take home 4-5K. Otherwise it’s 8-10, sometimes better. It depends on the office/location. But some guys refuse to come in unless they get like 10K/day. Lots of variables

 

[D1Bound]

I work part time for PDS, on slow days in take home 4-5K. Otherwise it’s 8-10, sometimes better. It depends on the office/location. But some guys refuse to come in unless they get like 10K/day. Lots of variables

What do you even do after making that kind of money? I just can’t wrap my head around that.

 

[omfsing]

What do you even do after making that kind of money? I just can’t wrap my head around that.

pay high taxes

 

[Ivy.ch]

What do you even do after making that kind of money? I just can’t wrap my head around that.

I know residents who moonlight (taking only straightforward cases, no sedation, no specialist reimbursement rates, no fancy all on X cases) who can produce 8ish in 6 hours if it’s a good day.

What do we do with it? Pay our debts - medical school tuition blows.

 

[omfsing]

Yeah GP is the way to go, less school debts

 

[OncePreDent]

Yeah GP is the way to go, less school debts

idk; you can make significantly more as an OS, but someone can run the potential numbers and calculate the incomes over a 35-year period. Taxes would be brutal if you don't have any ways to offset them.

 

[Ryxndek]

idk; you can make significantly more as an OS, but someone can run the potential numbers and calculate the incomes over a 35-year period. Taxes would be brutal if you don't have any ways to offset them.
View attachment 369641

A future @Big Time Hoosier in the making with the memes

 

[Ivy.ch]

idk; you can make significantly more as an OS, but someone can run the potential numbers and calculate the incomes over a 35-year period. Taxes would be brutal if you don't have any ways to offset them.
View attachment 369641

Sure, I’ll have more money after 35 years. Starting at age 32, that will make me 67. Dentists are financially fine at 67 too. What big difference is money going to make when you’re 67 and retired?

There’s value in having money now. I go on dates with dentists and it’s embarrassing - they take vacations, eat out, go on weekend trips, pay off debts, think about having kids, buy a condo, buy people birthday gifts - I work on weekends and have to recommend we cook dinner instead of going out to eat so I can save money.

But totally worth it because I get to do surgery. The money will be nice (some day), but it’s not why we do it.

 

[carabelliscusp]

Sure, I’ll have more money after 35 years. Starting at age 32, that will make me 67. Dentists are financially fine at 67 too. What big difference is money going to make when you’re 67 and retired?

There’s value in having money now. I go on dates with dentists and it’s embarrassing - they take vacations, eat out, go on weekend trips, pay off debts, think about having kids, buy a condo, buy people birthday gifts - I work on weekends and have to recommend we cook dinner instead of going out to eat so I can save money.

But totally worth it because I get to do surgery. The money will be nice (some day), but it’s not why we do it.

I'm curious how much you make moonlighting + resident salary

 

[OncePreDent]

There’s value in having money now. I go on dates with dentists and it’s embarrassing - they take vacations, eat out, go on weekend trips, pay off debts, think about having kids, buy a condo, buy people birthday gifts - I work on weekends and have to recommend we cook dinner instead of going out to eat so I can save money.

The kind of lifestyle you are going to have will be significantly different for the 35 years you work, making $500k-$600k a year vs a general dentist making $200k a year for 40 years. You are making incredible sacrifices doing OS, and I'm confident it will pay off for you as well. Yes, just like dental school or even undergrad sucks with all of my friends who didn't go- they have incomes, go on vacations, dating, etc. While I am just trying to save money, but I think/hope my sacrifice of going further in debt, the lose of time & income will be worth it. I also don't see why you should feel embarrassed about it at all. I think you should be proud; you are working towards something you want to accomplish and are making the necessary sacrifices to get there.

What big difference is money going to make when you’re 67 and retired?

Your entire lifestyle is going to be a big difference. Not only for the 35 years your working but when you are retired as well. You will have options: traveling multiple times a year with grandchildren, creating a school or retirement account for your grandchildren, can have multiple homes, and living a lifestyle that supports your higher income (if you choose). You will have more freedom. Not saying a GD won't be able to do these things too. I'm saying that if you have a higher income, wise with investments & spending habits, you will be able to do more/have more options for the life you want to live than someone with a lower income & similar spending habits.

The money will be nice (some day), but it’s not why we do it.

I highly doubt you would be doing OS if you made the same exact as a general dentist. Spend an extra 4-6 years of your life in school, adding debt, not being able to pay for dates, going on vacations, and making all of these sacrifices to have the same income per year as a general dentist. I don't see you doing OS if you weren't being properly compensated for your efforts.

 

[Ivy.ch]

I'm curious how much you make moonlighting + resident salary

Resident Salary = 0
Med School = -70k
Moonlighting = idk, 25-35k maybe

Looking forward to picking up the 65k resident salary again when I’m done with med school next month. But I still have to pay med school tuition next year 😢

 

[D1Bound]

Resident Salary = 0
Med School = -70k
Moonlighting = idk, 25-35k maybe

Looking forward to picking up the 65k resident salary again when I’m done with med school next month. But I still have to pay med school tuition next year 😢

For future students who read this 4 year > than 6 year OMS programs. Cue the flame war

 

[OncePreDent]

Resident Salary = 0
Med School = -70k
Moonlighting = idk, 25-35k maybe

Looking forward to picking up the 65k resident salary again when I’m done with med school next month. But I still have to pay med school tuition next year 😢

Ouch, that's rough. Do you ever take a weekend off, or are you running nonstop 8-5?

 

[Colastick]

Theodore Roosevelt: "Comparison is the thief of joy"

 

[carabelliscusp]

Resident Salary = 0
Med School = -70k
Moonlighting = idk, 25-35k maybe

Looking forward to picking up the 65k resident salary again when I’m done with med school next month. But I still have to pay med school tuition next year 😢

Do you regret choosing the MD option?

 

[piratewow]

For future students who read this 4 year > than 6 year OMS programs. Cue the flame war

If money and ROI is all you care about then endo > 4 yr. From my understanding you are not a resident or attending so how can you say which is better so confidently?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Do you regret choosing the MD option?

Absolutely not. I’m glad I matched at an MD program.

 

[Ryxndek]

Absolutely not. I’m glad I matched at an MD program.

Doesn’t the MD program allow more opportunities to work in hospitals? I’ve heard there’s not too many differences from 4-6 year other than that. But could be wrong

 

[D1Bound]

Doesn’t the MD program allow more opportunities to work in hospitals? I’ve heard there’s not too many differences from 4-6 year other than that. But could be wrong

Every single degree surgeon I have spoken to has had zero problem. The military trains most of their surgeons as single degree. It only matters for some fellowships. Someone correct me if that’s wrong about the last part.

 

[Ivy.ch]

Every single degree surgeon I have spoken to has had zero problem. The military trains most of their surgeons as single degree. It only matters for some fellowships. Someone correct me if that’s wrong about the last part.

That’s the main difference - more difficult to get into fellowship without the MD. I want to do a fellowship, hence, I’m glad I did the MD.

Another benefit is just having more familiarity with different MD teams and general medicine knowledge - there’s not much tangible or financial benefit, but it is a personal one. I learned a lot, especially studying for the STEPs. We do ~9 months of med school here. If I was at one of the programs with 24 month programs, I’d probably have a much different opinion.

 

[BYU4you]

Sure, I’ll have more money after 35 years. Starting at age 32, that will make me 67. Dentists are financially fine at 67 too. What big difference is money going to make when you’re 67 and retired?

There’s value in having money now. I go on dates with dentists and it’s embarrassing - they take vacations, eat out, go on weekend trips, pay off debts, think about having kids, buy a condo, buy people birthday gifts - I work on weekends and have to recommend we cook dinner instead of going out to eat so I can save money.

But totally worth it because I get to do surgery. The money will be nice (some day), but it’s not why we do it.

The bright side about those 24+ month MD programs is you have the time to have kids and take a vacation. Financially it’s tough but the past few years in med school have been some of the best years of my life with my two kids, I initially wanted to do 4 year and Im so glad I ended up in the 6 year. Ask me again when the pause on loans ends, but I would recommend the 6 year option to anyone choosing that has any interest in the medical aspect and wanting to get a full experience along side MD colleagues.

 

[piratewow]

Doesn’t the MD program allow more opportunities to work in hospitals? I’ve heard there’s not too many differences from 4-6 year other than that. But could be wrong

6 year guy here, 4 v 6 is gonna be debated until the end of time but here's my take:

Why I would do a 4: save 2 years of your life, don't have to pay med school tuition ( can be 200k+ at places like MGH, BU, etc), if you're older or dead set on private practice.

Why I would do a 6: interested in fellowship/academia/expanded scope, advertising, ego, receiving a more well rounded education, getting to chill for a year or two.

Regarding the well rounded education: Seeing first hand the day in the life of a IM, OB, neuro, psych, etc. resident and the types of patients they encounter helps me understand better how a hospital works. You get some of that as a 4 year guy but usually just IM/Gen surg. I think it's nice to know what exactly a pediatrician, neurologist, gynecologist, etc. actually does out of both personal curiosity and being able to help family members navigate the medical system, but I suppose it's not a "tangible" or "monetary" benefit.

 

[JJayJoe]

That’s the main difference - more difficult to get into fellowship without the MD. I want to do a fellowship, hence, I’m glad I did the MD.

Another benefit is just having more familiarity with different MD teams and general medicine knowledge - there’s not much tangible or financial benefit, but it is a personal one. I learned a lot, especially studying for the STEPs. We do ~9 months of med school here. If I was at one of the programs with 24 month programs, I’d probably have a much different opinion.

9 months of med school but you pay two years of tuition?

 

[D1Bound]

6 year guy here, 4 v 6 is gonna be debated until the end of time but here's my take:

Why I would do a 4: save 2 years of your life, don't have to pay med school tuition ( can be 200k+ at places like MGH, BU, etc), if you're older or dead set on private practice.

Why I would do a 6: interested in fellowship/academia/expanded scope, advertising, ego, receiving a more well rounded education, getting to chill for a year or two.

Regarding the well rounded education: Seeing first hand the day in the life of a IM, OB, neuro, psych, etc. resident and the types of patients they encounter helps me understand better how a hospital works. You get some of that as a 4 year guy but usually just IM/Gen surg. I think it's nice to know what exactly a pediatrician, neurologist, gynecologist, etc. actually does out of both personal curiosity and being able to help family members navigate the medical system, but I suppose it's not a "tangible" or "monetary" benefit.

I shuttered when you wrote "academia."

 

[rotichawal]

I shuttered when you wrote "academia."

If you're young and not geographically tied down, I've heard of some pretty decent $$ for academic gigs. Won't hold a candle to $10k/day jobs obviously, but if you have an interest in using your training beyond teeth and titanium you don't necessarily have to beggar yourself.

 

[Ivy.ch]

9 months of med school but you pay two years of tuition?

And graduate with an MD in 5 years. Worth it. I’ll make up the year of tuition with my year of salary.

 

[Ivy.ch]

The bright side about those 24+ month MD programs is you have the time to have kids and take a vacation.

I’m happy for you. But damn, I’m so happy I don’t have any children right now 😂 That will be a post-residency problem for me.

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

6 year guy here, 4 v 6 is gonna be debated until the end of time but here's my take:

Why I would do a 4: save 2 years of your life, don't have to pay med school tuition ( can be 200k+ at places like MGH, BU, etc), if you're older or dead set on private practice.

Why I would do a 6: interested in fellowship/academia/expanded scope, advertising, ego, receiving a more well rounded education, getting to chill for a year or two.

Regarding the well rounded education: Seeing first hand the day in the life of a IM, OB, neuro, psych, etc. resident and the types of patients they encounter helps me understand better how a hospital works. You get some of that as a 4 year guy but usually just IM/Gen surg. I think it's nice to know what exactly a pediatrician, neurologist, gynecologist, etc. actually does out of both personal curiosity and being able to help family members navigate the medical system, but I suppose it's not a "tangible" or "monetary" benefit.

As a current 6 year resident I agre wit a lot of this, but honestly, being exposed to what IM/OB/neuro/psych/gen surg/peds have to do for a living, a real benefit of a 6 year you didn't mention is the perspective it gives us to be so, so thankful that we aren't in a field of medicine. Dentists of all other stripes have absolutely no idea how lucky we all are to have what he have lol. 4 year people sometimes get an experience that is so tailored to their role as an off service OMFS person that they miss this (but don't miss out on the necessary education to be good at their jobs).

 

[bergus95]

As a current 6 year resident I agre wit a lot of this, but honestly, being exposed to what IM/OB/neuro/psych/gen surg/peds have to do for a living, a real benefit of a 6 year you didn't mention is the perspective it gives us to be so, so thankful that we aren't in a field of medicine. Dentists of all other stripes have absolutely no idea how lucky we all are to have what he have lol. 4 year people sometimes get an experience that is so tailored to their role as an off service OMFS person that they miss this (but don't miss out on the necessary education to be good at their jobs).

Trust me, we more than appreciate what we have 😂

 

[TherealnorthOMFS]

As a current 6 year resident I agre wit a lot of this, but honestly, being exposed to what IM/OB/neuro/psych/gen surg/peds have to do for a living, a real benefit of a 6 year you didn't mention is the perspective it gives us to be so, so thankful that we aren't in a field of medicine. Dentists of all other stripes have absolutely no idea how lucky we all are to have what he have lol. 4 year people sometimes get an experience that is so tailored to their role as an off service OMFS person that they miss this (but don't miss out on the necessary education to be good at their jobs).

Respect. but don't you think a "real benefit" is a strong word? Personally, I think it's more like a "nice to see" lol. In my opinion, the only true benefit of the 2 extra years is fellowship and academics. Any OMFS, single or dual degree, can do whatever they want within the scope of our specialty granted they have the experience and competence. At my program we are going to have an optional MD at the end of our training, but am I going to do it because I want to see what OBGYN, psych, and paeds do on a regular basis? no. I'm going to think long and hard about spending 68K x 2 years worth of tuition + living costs, so you are looking at 200K, while my buddy is cashing 700K per year. If I change my mind about wanting a fellowship or I wake up one day and think academic surgery is the way to go, then sure.

 

[D1Bound]

Respect. but don't you think a "real benefit" is a strong word? Personally, I think it's more like a "nice to see" lol. In my opinion, the only true benefit of the 2 extra years is fellowship and academics. Any OMFS, single or dual degree, can do whatever they want within the scope of our specialty granted they have the experience and competence. At my program we are going to have an optional MD at the end of our training, but am I going to do it because I want to see what OBGYN, psych, and paeds do on a regular basis? no. I'm going to think long and hard about spending 68K x 2 years worth of tuition + living costs, so you are looking at 200K, while my buddy is cashing 700K per year. If I change my mind about wanting a fellowship or I wake up one day and think academic surgery is the way to go, then sure.

This guy is a realist

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

Respect. but don't you think a "real benefit" is a strong word? Personally, I think it's more like a "nice to see" lol. In my opinion, the only true benefit of the 2 extra years is fellowship and academics. Any OMFS, single or dual degree, can do whatever they want within the scope of our specialty granted they have the experience and competence. At my program we are going to have an optional MD at the end of our training, but am I going to do it because I want to see what OBGYN, psych, and paeds do on a regular basis? no. I'm going to think long and hard about spending 68K x 2 years worth of tuition + living costs, so you are looking at 200K, while my buddy is cashing 700K per year. If I change my mind about wanting a fellowship or I wake up one day and think academic surgery is the way to go, then sure.

I fully admit my saltiness/regret subconsciously affects my perspective on how beneficial the 6 year vs 4 year route is, as things currently are in the field.

 

[piratewow]

Respect. but don't you think a "real benefit" is a strong word? Personally, I think it's more like a "nice to see" lol. In my opinion, the only true benefit of the 2 extra years is fellowship and academics. Any OMFS, single or dual degree, can do whatever they want within the scope of our specialty granted they have the experience and competence. At my program we are going to have an optional MD at the end of our training, but am I going to do it because I want to see what OBGYN, psych, and paeds do on a regular basis? no. I'm going to think long and hard about spending 68K x 2 years worth of tuition + living costs, so you are looking at 200K, while my buddy is cashing 700K per year. If I change my mind about wanting a fellowship or I wake up one day and think academic surgery is the way to go, then sure.

To be fair me and @Ivy.ch both go to programs w/short med school. I only have to do 12 months and the total cost of tuition for my MD is sub <50k. So we are kind of more the exception than the rule. I strongly agree that financially 4 yr > doing 24-36 months med school(aka most 6 yr programs) and paying for it especially if you can’t moonlight and they don’t cancel out tuition w a stipend.