At what point do you consider yourself "disadvantaged"?

[Schemp]

For the sake of clarity (this part is an edit):

I am not applying as disadvantaged, nor do I think I really come very close to someone who would be described as truly disadvantaged. I include my own personal history because I think it illustrates the point that everyone who is not "disadvantaged" doesn't necessarily have a perfect background.

But as far as the situation I grew up in:

Parents never married, custody battle early in my life (before I can remember) that financially ruined my mom for a long time. I was kind of split between my mom's side and my dad's side until I was 12, although my dad himself disappeared by the time I was 8 so I stayed with my grandparents during those "dad's side" weekends until I was 12.

My mom got married to my step-dad when I was still about 2 or 3 years old, so I've grown up with a dad most of my whole life regardless. He's not a great dad, or even a good one, but he provided for our family financially and wasn't physically abusive or anything like that.

By the time I was 10 or so my mom and step dad were doing okay enough to buy a house although they were stretched pretty thin, but clearly if you can afford a house you're probably not poor or anything. So I grew up, turned 16 and finished sophomore year and my parents moved to a rural area and I stayed behind living in my friend's parents' basement with them for about 6 months, working and doing Running Start at my local college. It seemed like a good idea since my parents had always told me I'd have to pay my way through college and had to move out when I was 18 anyway. I ended up moving back with my family for about a year since my friend's parents wouldn't let me stay anymore, and then moved out again with those same friends when they moved out.

I quit school shortly after that and just worked for three years, then when I went back to school that was all loan-based of course, although once I turned 24 I was eligible for financial aid as an independent again (thank god).

Anyway, I realize my childhood wasn't horrible or anything, but what exactly makes someone disadvantaged? I'm certain my childhood was more messed up and I was poorer and received less help from my parents than most people applying to medical school, but I'm a white male whose parents now fall squarely into the middle class.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as complaining about the road I've taken since I think it's made me more mature and more qualified than I otherwise would have been. I am curious about the circumstances of people who DID apply as disadvantaged though. What made you decide to do it? Obviously growing up in real poverty is a legitimate reason; what else?

P.S. - I'm not trolling, be civil!

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[Morsetlis]

I'm disadvantaged because I have no social skills. No, seriously, that's worth more than rich parents.

 

[just one]

I would not consider you disadvantaged. MY qualifications are: 1. Physically/mentally disabled, 2. Homeless.
I'm sure there are others, but none that merit automatic disadvantaged status

 

[Elpenor]

I see absolutely nothing even close to being "disadvantaged" except that your parents divorced (same with half of the country?)... and then remarried 2 years later... lawl

Your life isn't "harder" than other people applying to medical school.

FYI I haven't seen my dad since I was 12 (convicted felon btw) and was raised by a single mom making <25k a year and I'm not putting "disadvantaged"

IMO disadvantaged is:

1) significant mental or physical disability
2) can't think of anything else

 

[WhizoMD]

Were you ill-prepared for college because you attended an "under-performing" high school? Were you ill-prepared for high school because you did not go to a good grade school? Did you go to bed hungry? Live in unsafe housing? Have far less than most people in your area when you were age 0-18?

If you can answer "yes" to those questions (or at least a few of them), then you might consider applying as disadvantaged as an immigrant.

That's what LizzyM said in response to a similar thread yesterday.

I don't think you'd fit that category; I'm still debating whether to apply disadvantaged, and my situation seems (don't want to judge)far worse than what you posted.

 

[Schemp]

I see absolutely nothing even close to being "disadvantaged" except that your parents divorced (same with half of the country?)... and then remarried 2 years later... lawl

Your life isn't "harder" than other people applying to medical school.

FYI I haven't seen my dad since I was 12 (convicted felon btw) and was raised by a single mom making <25k a year and I'm not putting "disadvantaged"

First off, you clearly didn't read it because I also haven't seen my real dad since I was 8, and he's also been in and out of jail and is a drug addict.

Second, I said I wasn't applying as disadvantaged and don't consider myself to be that bad off.

Third, this isn't a competition - yes you were more disadvantaged than me, that's entirely not the point. The point is that there's clearly a continuum and I'm curious what circumstances other people have that led to them checking the box, especially less obvious things than some of the above posters have noted such as mental disability.

 

[just one]

I retract my previous statement. There are no disadvantaged people on Earth. Some just have been given different variables than others. Those that get lemons make lemonade. Those given roses make ......... something (heck if I know what).
..
...
...
.....
I kid, I kid..

 

[Morsetlis]

Those given roses make ......... something (heck if I know what).

Rosewater.

 

[just one]

I have a new idea for being disadvantaged: old pre meds. They grew up without computers, much of the info they learned in school is obsolete or flat out incorrect.

 

[CaliGirl14]

I can personally say that I've been through a lot in my life, and I find the whole "disadvantage" thing complete bullsh*t. There are really, only a very small groups of people who truly fit into this group. That being said, read my signature.

 

[morning]

I quit school shortly after that and just worked for three years, then when I went back to school that was all loan-based of course, although once I turned 24 I was eligible for financial aid as an independent again (thank god).

I'm in this position too, turning 24 very soon and VERY happy about it. I'm actually glad I didn't go to school straight out of high school...well, scratch that, I'm kicking myself for not at least getting gen ed requirements out of the way, but at least I am now able to be independent. I grew up really poor but I don't feel disadvantaged. Being poor in the rural backwoods pre-meth days is not like being poor in the inner city. Never had to worry about being randomly shot or anything...except getting the mail during hunting season

Well...I do feel disadvantaged I'm not a Texan. Their in-state tuition is CRAZY low!

 

[LizzyM]

Some people! When URM comes up, everyone says, "we should give some consideration to people who grew up poor but not to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air" (or something like that). Now you don't know of anyone who qualifies as "disadvantaged" or who would self-identify as such.

How about the applicant who was raised by migrant workers, traveling with the crops, attending multiple schools in a single academic year, living in housing on the farm (an moving multiple times per year)?

How about the applicant raised in a housing project in a big city, attending big city public schools, dodging gang recruitment and drug dealers, scraping by with medicaid and food stamps? (read there are no children here and imagine one of those kids applying to med school).

How about the applicant raised by a single mom who had drug & alcohol issues and a minimum wage job? Maybe in and out of foster care while mom was in jail. No money for anything beyond the basics (and that was thrift store & food pantry).

Get the picture?

 

[morning]

I would LOVE to go to school with the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.


iiiin west Philadelphia, born and raised
on a playground is where I spent most of my days
chillin out maxin relaxin all cool
and all shootin some b-ball outside of school
when a couple of guys who were up to no good
startin makin trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
she said "you're movin with your auntie and your uncle in Bel-Air"

 

[Morsetlis]

How about the applicant raised in a housing project in a big city, attending big city public schools, dodging gang recruitment and drug dealers, scraping by with medicaid and food stamps?

Wait... I can haz disadvantaged status?

 

[just one]

Some people! When URM comes up, everyone says, "we should give some consideration to people who grew up poor but not to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air" (or something like that). Now you don't know of anyone who qualifies as "disadvantaged" or who would self-identify as such.

How about the applicant who was raised by migrant workers, traveling with the crops, attending multiple schools in a single academic year, living in housing on the farm (an moving multiple times per year)?

How about the applicant raised in a housing project in a big city, attending big city public schools, dodging gang recruitment and drug dealers, scraping by with medicaid and food stamps? (read there are no children here and imagine one of those kids applying to med school).

How about the applicant raised by a single mom who had drug & alcohol issues and a minimum wage job? Maybe in and out of foster care while mom was in jail. No money for anything beyond the basics (and that was thrift store & food pantry).

Get the picture?

As far as your first example goes, how about all the migrant workers or immigrants (that came with nothing) everywhere? Should all of them be pushed to the front of the line into medical school? Thats a long line. Where do the people that worked hard and had a "normal" upbringing belong? Should they be punished?

For example three: I fit that description except for the jail scenario. Does that mean I am disadvantaged? Not in my opinion.

The only people I have met that are truly disadvantaged would never consider themselves or apply as disadvantaged (right, wrong, or indifferent). These people (including myself) like to believe that they overcame obstacles with hard work and determination. Believe it or not, some people like to earn things without a handout.


Look, I agree there are "disadvantaged" people out there. You are an adcom and have met tons of them I'm sure. Whether or not morally it is right to level the playing field is not appropriate here. So I won't go there. In case you couldn't tell, my comments were mostly joking because of the nature of the OP comment

 

[bannie22]

When you don't get into med school.

 

[bannie22]

I'm kinda confused tho, I felt Schemp was disadvantaged enough to check off that box.

 

[akinetopsia]

I think a key indicator of "disadvantage-ness" should be:

1) was my childhood & adolescence a fertile background for a career in comedy?
2) was my childhood & adolescence a fertile background for a Book-of-the-Month selection for Oprah's Book Club if I wrote a memoir?
3) was my childhood & adolescence a fertile background for a career as a recording artist (bonus for anything gang-related that gives you street cred for a rap career)?

If so...

Disadvantage is largely in the eye of the beholder. I know I am not disadvantaged and will not be applying as such.

 

[Danlee07]

I would just say that is a broken family.

I've never had a house and we've moved 12 times throughout my life, but I'm just going along with what I can. Pretty sure there's always been a plan from the man above esp after i've realized my dumbness in undergrad.

I'd consider disadvantaged as in ******ation, living in trailer house & working butt off and still struggling, and physical disabilities...

 

[bannie22]

But if you are ummmm "******ed".
Then, I dont think you would fit the technical standards of medical schools, no?

Sorry, if thats not true. I'm just confused.

Physical disabilities yeah. definitely.

 

[MedBoundForSure]

It seems to me that some people are too proud to acknowledge their disadvantage... like they are now applying for welfare or something.

If you grew up in poverty or what have you then say so! It means something to the schools, your financial background adds diversity to the entering class, an asset for any school.

 

[just one]

Whether I say I was disadvantaged or not does not add diversity, I am the same person!

 

[MedBoundForSure]

Whether I say I was disadvantaged or not does not add diversity, I am the same person!

Obviously, but glancing over your application nobody would recognize the circumstances that have undeniably shaped you to be the person you are. Thats all I am saying.

You struggling growing up and attending X college with Y GPA versus stable life growing up and attending X college with Y GPA are two completely different situations. Without the disadvantaged section and to some degree your PS all adcoms really see is attended X college with Y GPA for both...

 

[just one]

Everyone is different. Unless we all come from the same school, diversity will happen. We don't need a box to ensure that

 

[LizzyM]

Migrants and immigrants are two different situations. By definition, migrant farm workers move every few months to harvest crops. Migrant farm families aren't paid much and there is a lot of moving among schools which causes deficiencies in academic progress. An immigrant comes here, works hard but often stays in one place. In some cases, the immigrant parents are well-paid professionals. Apples and oranges.

Diversity: At many medical schools a very large proportion of the class are the offspring of physicians. Another sizable proportion are the offspring of lawyers, business executives, politicians and others whose earnings place them in the top 10% of Americans. The perspective of a student who grew up on a household income of $2,000/month is very, very rare in medical school.

Disadvantage is a self-designation. If you don't want the label, no one is forcing it on you. On the flip side, it isn't a big boost to your application. It won't magically get you treated as if your gpa is 0.55 more than it is.

 

[just one]

Migrants and immigrants are two different situations. By definition, migrant farm workers move every few months to harvest crops. Migrant farm families aren't paid much and there is a lot of moving among schools which causes deficiencies in academic progress. An immigrant comes here, works hard but often stays in one place. In some cases, the immigrant parents are well-paid professionals. Apples and oranges.

Diversity: At many medical schools a very large proportion of the class are the offspring of physicians. Another sizable proportion are the offspring of lawyers, business executives, politicians and others whose earnings place them in the top 10% of Americans. The perspective of a student who grew up on a household income of $2,000/month is very, very rare in medical school.

Disadvantage is a self-designation. If you don't want the label, no one is forcing it on you. On the flip side, it isn't a big boost to your application. It won't magically get you treated as if your gpa is 0.55 more than it is.

2000/ month, what about 1000/month and making it? Didn't know I am a rare commodity. While the student body may be made of those offspring at your school, in both my state schools the population is not dominated by those types. While I don't have statistics, I do know several students accepted the last two years (over twenty for a 160 class) that don't fit into that category.

I know the difference, I was just using a urm that I have first hand knowledge of. An immigrant family gives birth, son is legal but family moves to avoid detection (hence the similarity to your example). Son must work to help support poor uneducated family. Most definetly would qualify urm, as would a ton of similar stories. Once again how do you guage worthiness of advacement beyond normal individual. What is the correction factor? That is the dilemma. Is it fair to the urm, the normal individual?

 

[LizzyM]

2000/ month, what about 1000/month and making it? Didn't know I am a rare commodity. While the student body may be made of those offspring at your school, in both my state schools the population is not dominated by those types. While I don't have statistics, I do know several students accepted the last two years (over twenty for a 160 class) that don't fit into that category.

People raising kids on less than $12,000/yr. Props to them. Keep in mind that the disadvantaged designation refers to ages 0-18.

Nationally, med students are disproportionately from familes in the top income quartile. The fact that a large proportion are docs' kids and a large proportion are lawyers' kids doesn't mean that that aren't any lower middle class families with kids in medical school. It would be no surprise if 1 in 8 (12.5%) of the class are from from middle class families. State schools with a strong preference for in state students might have more economic diversity.

 

[Rickybobby]

I'm a white male

= not disadvantaged.

To answer your question given the above wasn't a factor; anything that would give me a better chance. Check the box, check it. Prove it later.

 

[ThaliaNox]

I think many folks would be suprised at how many people who apply to medical school came from extremely priviliged backgrounds. I began interviewing for admissions this year, and out of curiosity, I look up each applicant's high school. Nearly every single applicant I have interviewed went to a high school which scored in the top 10% for that state in standardized testing, and nearly every applicant had at least one physician parent. None were first generation students. None were either from a rural or urban background. All suburban, well-to-do people whose parents had at least master's degrees. Perhaps 1 out of more than 10 had a part time job in college listed on their application. Many had multiple "international volunteering experiences."

I would argue for wider interpretation of disadvantaged considering what the child of a bank teller and a car mechanic has to compete with. Even if that child hasn't experienced something traumatic. Granted, this opens a whole lot of gray area.

 

[MedBoundForSure]

I think many folks would be suprised at how many people who apply to medical school came from extremely priviliged backgrounds. I began interviewing for admissions this year, and out of curiosity, I look up each applicant's high school. Nearly every single applicant I have interviewed went to a high school which scored in the top 10% for that state in standardized testing, and nearly every applicant had at least one physician parent. None were first generation students. None were either from a rural or urban background. All suburban, well-to-do people whose parents had at least master's degrees. Perhaps 1 out of more than 10 had a part time job in college listed on their application. Many had multiple "international volunteering experiences."

I would argue for wider interpretation of disadvantaged considering what the child of a bank teller and a car mechanic has to compete with. Even if that child hasn't experienced something traumatic. Granted, this opens a whole lot of gray area.

good point
In the beginning I really didnt understand the section. I met with an adcom for a standard counseling session and that is how the designation was explained to me.

Sure it does leave gray area, but that is what the additional questions and explanation paragraph are for.

 

[just one]

I think many folks would be suprised at how many people who apply to medical school came from extremely priviliged backgrounds. I began interviewing for admissions this year, and out of curiosity, I look up each applicant's high school. Nearly every single applicant I have interviewed went to a high school which scored in the top 10% for that state in standardized testing, and nearly every applicant had at least one physician parent. None were first generation students. None were either from a rural or urban background. All suburban, well-to-do people whose parents had at least master's degrees. Perhaps 1 out of more than 10 had a part time job in college listed on their application. Many had multiple "international volunteering experiences."

I would argue for wider interpretation of disadvantaged considering what the child of a bank teller and a car mechanic has to compete with. Even if that child hasn't experienced something traumatic. Granted, this opens a whole lot of gray area.

so you are saying my son gets an automatic acceptance since my wife has been a teller for four years and I was a mechanic for 13. Save him a spot

 

[Morsetlis]

so you are saying my son gets an automatic acceptance since my wife has been a teller for four years and I was a mechanic for 13. Save him a spot

But you can't become a doctor. Doctors are rich.

 

[LizzyM]

You have the option of listing your parents names, legal county of residence, alma mater, and occupation (also alive: y/n). I'd say about 98% of applicants complete that section. That does put your socio-economic status in perspective. That's there, if you list it, even if you don't self identify as disadvantaged. As has been pointed out, your HS is also listed.

White men can be justified in self-identifying as disadvantaged.

 

[Schemp]

You have the option of listing your parents names, legal county of residence, alma mater, and occupation (also alive: y/n). I'd say about 98% of applicants complete that section. That does put your socio-economic status in perspective. That's there, if you list it, even if you don't self identify as disadvantaged. As has been pointed out, your HS is also listed.

White men can be justified in self-identifying as disadvantaged.

Is this on the AMCAS? I filled out last years but ended up delaying my application and don't remember this. Entirely possible that I'd forgotten though. So stuff like first generation college student, mom didn't graduate high school, that stuff can be put in somewhere?

 

[LizzyM]

Is this on the AMCAS? I filled out last years but ended up delaying my application and don't remember this. Entirely possible that I'd forgotten though. So stuff like first generation college student, mom didn't graduate high school, that stuff can be put in somewhere?

Yes, it is on the AMCAS.

 

[just one]

For my situation, when I was 0-18 as you indicated l, yes I could qualify. Yet now, twelve years later after working and building a middle class life, I obviously am not. While urm or disadvantaged individuals would have a hard or near impossible road to a traditional path from the hypothetical lifestyles, everyone has the ability to build a life and do the path I have done. I am not superman, anyone can do it. You just have to make it happen. Start at a CC. Heck, the govt gives pell grant money that covers the cost of attendance (automatically after fasfa filled out if you make below certain income, I have first hand knowledge of that). Will you have to work while going to college? Yes, but if you want it bad enough you will find a way

 

[Schemp]

For my situation, when I was 0-18 as you indicated l, yes I could qualify. Yet now, twelve years later after working and building a middle class life, I obviously am not. While urm or disadvantaged individuals would have a hard or near impossible road to a traditional path from the hypothetical lifestyles, everyone has the ability to build a life and do the path I have done. I am not superman, anyone can do it. You just have to make it happen. Start at a CC. Heck, the govt gives pell grant money that covers the cost of attendance (automatically after fasfa filled out if you make below certain income, I have first hand knowledge of that). Will you have to work while going to college? Yes, but if you want it bad enough you will find a way

I totally agree with this. I strongly believe that if education is really important to you, lack of privilege or even true disadvantage is not always a legitimate excuse. Many, many times it is not in fact. There are certainly some people in positions where ending up in college, even much later in life, is very unlikely. Nonetheless, once you reach a certain age it's all paid for. You just have to be willing to take the longer, harder road.

 

[bannie22]

urmmm. so my mom didnt finish middle school. am i disadvantaged too? heehee.

 

[298609]

as LizzyM mentioned earlier, and as another poster put (in so many words), due to relativity there is a lot of "gray area" with a situation like this. LizzyM mentioned that you may be disadvantaged if you grew up with much less than those around you. What if you were a very "disadantaged" student compared to your hs peers, yet compared to national averages you would be considered average? For example, what if you were a scholarship student at a private high school? Technically, there are many things that individual could say to indicate he was disadvantaged, however, from a nat'l mean standpoint he wasn't.

imo "disadvantaged" is a personal state of mind (ie, if you believe you are disadvantaged, you probably are in some way or another...not that it's all in your head).

to those of you who say no one is reaaaalllly disadvantaged and that if we open the door for one person then all of them are going the the front of the line....srysly guys, have some compassion.

someone else mentioned the most important point about disadvantaged status::: IT'S NOT A COMPETITION.

but just for the record...i'm an orphan who lived on the streets til my friend the artful dodger taught me how to steal for ***in and then i got my act together before getting my GED and applying to med school. SO THERE.

 

[ThaliaNox]

It could be argued that any "disadvantaged" person who even gets to the point of applying to medical school has beaten the odds, to some extent. The idea is to give someone credit for starting at 0, as opposed to the people they are competing with who are starting at 50. If the disadvantaged person only gets to 95, should they be judged more harshly than the non-disadvantaged person who gets to 96? Notice the lack of huge differences here.

Heh, in case anyone was curious, my school at least adds disadvantaged status internally to those applications who they think deserve it, but who didn't mark it on their application. So some of you who are so proud of not putting it may end up with it anyway.

 

[sdguy2008]

I would not consider you disadvantaged. MY qualifications are: 1. Physically/mentally disabled, 2. Homeless.
I'm sure there are others, but none that merit automatic disadvantaged status

while i may agree with you, i dont think aamc considers this disadvantaged.

maybe LizzyM can set the record straight?

 

[LizzyM]

while i may agree with you, i dont think aamc considers this disadvantaged.

maybe LizzyM can set the record straight?

mental and physical disabiities aren't what aamc has in mind for the "disadvantaged" section. It is geared for people who had disadvantaged childhoods (either economically disadvantage or living in a community with a lack of health care providers -- the idea being that we give a leg up to kids who might go back and be the doctor in their underserved community).


Regardless of your current situation, you can claim "disadvantage" if your childhood was one of hardship.

With regard to the "having less than others" point I made and that is being quoted on this thread, that was specific to an immigrant applicant. If you were poorer than others around you in your native land, then you've got more of a claim than if you were among the elite there although compared with US incomes, your family income was low. Also, if you grew up in an affluent community and you didn't have a car and an iPod like all your friends, that's not a good reason to label yourself "disadvantaged".

 

[45408]

As far as your first example goes, how about all the migrant workers or immigrants (that came with nothing) everywhere? Should all of them be pushed to the front of the line into medical school? Thats a long line. Where do the people that worked hard and had a "normal" upbringing belong? Should they be punished?

People who are applying as "disadvantaged" aren't being pushed the front of any line. The only thing it will do for you is explain some discrepancies on your application. The only time I've seen it was for an applicant who was orphaned, had siblings deported, and was left alone in a large city to finish high school (but he was taking college classes while in HS, and his grades dipped pretty low that semester, lowering his overall GPA). Thus, the "disadvantaged" explained the lower GPA. That was it.

 

[Danae00]

.

 

[thamsenman]

America: The Land of Victims....Here I am, give me AA.

 

[sdguy2008]

America: The Land of Victims....Here I am, give me AA.

some people have had real, sometimes devastating circumstances that others dont have to overcome. maybe trade in that myopia for some perspective?

oh, and get off your high horse.