Away rotations, Residency Interviews, and the ERAS Timeline: The Coalition's Recommendations

[dabo52]

"When will you give up on the COMLEX" is the only relevant question for these fools.

They should really consider giving up the COMLEX Level 2 PE this year. With a second spike likely in the fall, there is no way they will test the whole class of 2021 before graduation and residency. Someone should address waiving the COMLEX Level 2 PE in the webinar they are having this week. If they waive the COMLEX Level 2 PE this year then the NBME should waive the USMLE STEP 2 CS.

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[TheBoneDoctah]

How are the ortho auditions looking? Anyone applying for them and getting them or are they kicking people out too?


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[Scrubs101]

How are the ortho auditions looking? Anyone applying for them and getting them or are they kicking people out too?


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DO side of things seems like theyre planning on staying for the most part

ive heard MD side of things are getting hit harder with cancelations (but its more of an institution wide thing like Iowa for example)

edit: any idea if/when ortho will put out specialty recs?

 

[SurgDoc95]

No idea on the ortho front, but I'd imagine for DOs this would be an absolute killer for average ortho applicants. Hell I'm limited with my gen surg aways and it makes me nervous =O

 

[Neopolymath]

I hope everyone submitted questions as to how PE can exist in a world with no aways and virtual interviews and CS being virtual. Please please please submit that question. They need to come out and say they are going to be POS to our faces.

 

[Scrubs101]

I hope everyone submitted questions as to how PE can exist in a world with no aways and virtual interviews and CS being virtual. Please please please submit that question. They need to come out and say they are going to be POS to our faces.

+1

everyone just be sure to word it super formally so that they actually consider choosing it

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

After receiving the notification that the June dates for the PE are canceled, I am now signed up to take it in February 2021. Lovely situation here.

 

[goneriding]

How are the ortho auditions looking? Anyone applying for them and getting them or are they kicking people out too?


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I'm scheduled at a bunch of DO/MD Ortho programs, and have not had any program indicate that they are cancelling due to COVID. Yet, at least. I have heard that some institutions are keeping the students that they scheduled pre-COVID, but not scheduling any more students, which sucks for anyone who decided on their specialty choice late.

 

[Frogger27]

My MD ortho program is taking visiting students still, albeit only students without a home program. Our med school banned us from doing rotations for academic year 2020-2021

 

[TwistedTea]

Might be a good project for former applicants for all programs to post their experiences on interview day for others to see. Ill post mine if someone makes an anon spreadsheet. Only one interview I went on would be considered red flaggy but damn this is something you wont pick up via a zoom interview. who wants to end up at some malignant goon residency due to the fact its easy to paint a pig on zoom.

 

[hallowmann]

+1

everyone just be sure to word it super formally so that they actually consider choosing it

This is huge everyone. The truth is that they could easily make the exam virtual. They could have schools do a mock PE that consists only of a few OMM cases and have schools attest to passing those, do most of the other cases virtual like the CS, and even if they wanted OMM cases actually administered by them, they could have them virtually done where you just describe the technique to the patient. Its really not that hard. This is an unusual time, it makes sense to adjust things a bit.

Might be a good project for former applicants for all programs to post their experiences on interview day for others to see. Ill post mine if someone makes an anon spreadsheet. Only one interview I went on would be considered red flaggy but damn this is something you wont pick up via a zoom interview. who wants to end up at some malignant goon residency due to the fact its easy to paint a pig on zoom.

Gotta say, this is quite stressful from the residency side as well. There were a few people we DNRed last year, that I'm not quite sure we could have without meeting them for hours or having the dinner the night before. A couple were pretty good on paper, but then proceeded to do a lot of inappropriate things at dinner, got drunk, and then shared far too much about themselves and their childhood. That's not necessarily coming across in a few hours on zoom.

Our city is also pretty nice, but usually people only find that out after they arrive here, so we're anticipating recruitment to be tougher than before. I didn't even completely take the location seriously until I actually visited. We're all kinds of nervous about it.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

updates per nbome zoom:
1. 25% of class of 2021 has already taken and passed the PE
2. they will NOT accept a telehealth version of the PE. make many references to "protecting the public" by requiring passage of a clinical skills examination for all DO graduates. sounds like they hope to resume testing in july with clear face masks for candidates + SPs and temperature checks...
3. no additional testing sites will be opened for the PE

 

[dabo52]

updates per nbome zoom:
1. 25% of class of 2021 has already taken and passed the PE
2. they will NOT accept a telehealth version of the PE. make many references to "protecting the public" by requiring passage of a clinical skills examination for all DO graduates. sounds like they hope to resume testing in july with clear face masks for candidates + SPs and temperature checks...
3. no additional testing sites will be opened for the PE

What will the NBOME do if the tests get cancelled in July or if there is a second wave? If there is a second wave that cancels the PE exams this fall/winter then there is no way they will test all DO graduates on time for May 2021.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

updates per nbome zoom:
1. 25% of class of 2021 has already taken and passed the PE
2. they will NOT accept a telehealth version of the PE. make many references to "protecting the public" by requiring passage of a clinical skills examination for all DO graduates. sounds like they hope to resume testing in july with clear face masks for candidates + SPs and temperature checks...
3. no additional testing sites will be opened for the PE

Isn't the NBOME webinar tomorrow? Or was this something else

 

[Neopolymath]

Isn't the NBOME webinar tomorrow? Or was this something else

I believe that was one for schools not students. Tomorrow is students as you said.

 

[SurgDoc95]

What will the NBOME do if the tests get cancelled in July or if there is a second wave? If there is a second wave that cancels the PE exams this fall/winter then there is no way they will test all DO graduates on time for May 2021.

Dude we bone wizards gotta bone wizard for licensing. Not like we could just describe the OMM steps over a virtual PE exam or anything...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Dude we bone wizards gotta bone wizard for licensing. Not like we could just describe the OMM steps over a virtual PE exam or anything...

Yeah it's not like OMM can be done in a telehealth format.... oh wait, that's exactly what our OMM department is doing...

 

[SurgDoc95]

Yeah it's not like OMM can be done in a telehealth format.... oh wait, that's exactly what our OMM department is doing...

Was talking to a student from another COM and they were trying to come up with at home OMM to publish. If that can be published, we can do a telehealth OMM test

 

[JointsMan]

I believe that was one for schools not students. Tomorrow is students as you said.

When will this be and where at? I saw something about it previously, but can not find the information anymore and of course it was not easily findable on the NBOME website.

 

[qwertythrowaway]

student zoom call today at 1 pm:Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: Q&A with NBOME: Discussing COMLEX-USA Challenges in the Face of COVID-19. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the webinar.

 

[Neopolymath]

When will this be and where at? I saw something about it previously, but can not find the information anymore and of course it was not easily findable on the NBOME website.

I have no clue. Sorry. Perhaps check their Twitter? I don't really watch these things.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I hope everyone submitted questions as to how PE can exist in a world with no aways and virtual interviews and CS being virtual. Please please please submit that question. They need to come out and say they are going to be POS to our faces.

They will probably thank everyone at the NBOME for the great job their doing for the first 30 mins then talk about level 1 for the next 30 mins -> end of meeting

 

[Spectreman]

Keeping this thread open for live tweets during the Zoom... Hoping for some good comments from y’all.

 

[drplzz]

which schools don't use COMATs??

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

which schools don't use COMATs??

I believe LECOM has their students take subject specific NBME's instead of COMAT.

 

[Spectreman]

This dude’s gonna get Jeffrey Epstein’d by the NBOME mafia. Balls though, like dang.

 

[boolin_1]

dude's such a badass. everyone ask similar comments!

 

[JointsMan]

Notice how they had students use the Q & A Feature because they could filter out the questions they wanted to and when students got frustrated and posted their questions in the chat window, they were told to not do so.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

This is complete bullsh*t. They won't accommodate us and prepare for the likely case that July dates will be canceled. And what about everyone who is rescheduled into the new year?!?! How will we get to take thise test in time for even the rank list? If VSLO is mostly canceled and residency interviews are to be on Zoom to prevent unnecessary travel how is it ok for them to risk us getting sick to travel WAY further to a major city for a test that is essentially pointless. If they don't do something soon a lot of people will be screwed. Also, that 25% figure is BS. I think no one has taken it in my class. God, f#ck the NBOME.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

This is complete bullsh*t. They won't accommodate us and prepare for the likely case that July dates will be canceled. And what about everyone who is rescheduled into the new year?!?! How will we get to take thise test in time for even the rank list? If VSLO is mostly canceled and residency interviews are to be on Zoom to prevent unnecessary travel how is it ok for them to risk us getting sick to travel WAY further to a major city for a test that is essentially pointless. If they don't do something soon a lot of people will be screwed. Also, that 25% figure is BS. I think no one has taken it in my class. God, f#ck the NBOME.

0% of my class has taken it. And per our deans about 60% were scheduled in May and June, with another 20% scheduled in July.

 

[getfat]

This dude’s gonna get Jeffrey Epstein’d by the NBOME mafia. Balls though, like dang.

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Agreed some of the posters had zero chill haha.

 

[Spectreman]

Agreed some of the posters had zero chill haha.

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Saw that too lol, love the author too... hmmm... Agenda much?

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Agreed some of the posters had zero chill haha.

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Dam that's brutal. So glad people have guts.

 

[12jas]

which schools don't use COMATs??

RVUCOM uses NBME's as well.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This is complete bullsh*t. They won't accommodate us and prepare for the likely case that July dates will be canceled. And what about everyone who is rescheduled into the new year?!?! How will we get to take thise test in time for even the rank list? If VSLO is mostly canceled and residency interviews are to be on Zoom to prevent unnecessary travel how is it ok for them to risk us getting sick to travel WAY further to a major city for a test that is essentially pointless. If they don't do something soon a lot of people will be screwed. Also, that 25% figure is BS. I think no one has taken it in my class. God, f#ck the NBOME.

Apparently admin at my school were pretty pissed when the NBOME told them they aren't even considering a virtual option. Gives me hope that we actually have some people in authority positions that recognize how screwed we are getting by these organizations.

 

[JointsMan]

I love how he talked about Prometric's registration and date selection system being old and out of date but didn't discuss NBOME's date selection system for the PE being even more archaic.

 

[getfat]

Apparently admin at my school were pretty pissed when the NBOME told them they aren't even considering a virtual option. Gives me hope that we actually have some people in authority positions that recognize how screwed we are getting by these organizations.

I'm hoping they at-least f/u on the proctored exams at School sites.

A lot of schools are capable of having the level 2 PE at their site. From what I understood they were worried about it being fair.

The PE is pass/fail and has a ridiculously high pass rate so I don't see how that would be an issue. They mentioned several times they are adamant about the PE because it gives states confidence that our degree means something.

So just let the schools proctor them. You're already trusting the schools give us adequate experience on rotations.

 

[Espressso]

This webinar has made me even more cynical about the NBOME, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

[JointsMan]

This webinar has made me even more cynical about the NBOME, and I didn't think that was possible.

I became cynical when he said something like 240 full time employees work for the NBOME......I can't possibly imagine what they would need that many employees for.

 

[dabo52]

I became cynical when he said something like 240 full time employees work for the NBOME......I can't possibly imagine what they would need that many employees for.

But the NBOME is supposed to be a non-profit organization? Why else would it cost $1300 to take the PE? Imagine how much money the NBOME makes from the PE. Money is the reason they will never waive or cancel it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

A lot of schools are capable of having the level 2 PE at their site. From what I understood they were worried about it being fair.

The PE is pass/fail and has a ridiculously high pass rate so I don't see how that would be an issue. They mentioned several times they are adamant about the PE because it gives states confidence that our degree means something.

So just let the schools proctor them. You're already trusting the schools give us adequate experience on rotations.

I agree, but he explicitly said this wouldn't be considered. Ridiculous.

This webinar has made me even more cynical about the NBOME, and I didn't think that was possible.

Oh just wait..... see my comment below.

But the NBOME is supposed to be a non-profit organization? Why else would it cost $1300 to take the PE? Imagine how much money the NBOME makes from the PE. Money is the reason they will never waive or cancel it.

According to the NBOME today roughly 6000 students haven't taken PE. Without even considering retakes, that's ~7.8 million dollars.... according to the last year I can find data for, that's almost a full third of their yearly revenue.

 

[TwistedTea]

updates per nbome zoom:
1. 25% of class of 2021 has already taken and passed the PE
2. they will NOT accept a telehealth version of the PE. make many references to "protecting the public" by requiring passage of a clinical skills examination for all DO graduates. sounds like they hope to resume testing in july with clear face masks for candidates + SPs and temperature checks...
3. no additional testing sites will be opened for the PE

did ye really expect reason from thy who belevieth cranial?

I became cynical when he said something like 240 full time employees work for the NBOME......I can't possibly imagine what they would need that many employees for.

Nepotism disguised as spending revenue

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Apparently admin at my school were pretty pissed when the NBOME told them they aren't even considering a virtual option. Gives me hope that we actually have some people in authority positions that recognize how screwed we are getting by these organizations.

I reached out to admins at my school about this and they seem concerned as well. Hope it counts for something in the end.

 

[TwistedTea]

I reached out to admins at my school about this and they seem concerned as well. Hope it counts for something in the end.

Admin saying concerned is just them paying lip service

 

[slowthai]

Admin saying concerned is just them paying lip service

Exactly. Peddling lies and what was it again? More lies?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Well when we graduate we won’t have to deal with them any longer or give them money EVER AGAIN!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Admin saying concerned is just them paying lip service

In some cases probably, the ones I know that have said this I feel are genuine. Just based on previous experiences with them specifically. I do think we have some allies in our corner, they just don't come out of the woodwork very often.

 

[Spectreman]

Nova just announced we’re out from rotations until at least August...

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

In some cases probably, the ones I know that have said this I feel are genuine. Just based on previous experiences with them specifically. I do think we have some allies in our corner, they just don't come out of the woodwork very often.

In general our Admins aren't super in our corner. So it's hard trust. :/

 

[sunshinefl]

Nova just announced we’re out from rotations until at least August...

Haha I found out from you here.