Away rotations, Residency Interviews, and the ERAS Timeline: The Coalition's Recommendations

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Please tell me y'all have schools that are taking the PE thing seriously? Just in today my school isn't attempting to do anything about it essentially.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Please tell me y'all have schools that are taking the PE thing seriously? Just in today my school isn't attempting to do anything about it essentially.
What are they supposed to due? isn't it out of their hands and basically up to NBOME?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
What a circus we signed up for. I'd highly recommend we spread the word to people to interact in a more 'professional' way on the next webinar. Dean of clinical affairs implied it is going to be harder to work with the NBOME on this given how people responded. She's probably blowing smoke, but if we stand any chance of fixing this, it won't be via the insults, no matter how true or cathartic they are.
 
Step 2 CS has been suspended for the next 12-18 months, as of today.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 users
Step 2 CS has been suspended for the next 12-18 months, as of today.

Not believing that until it's posted officially. Need tangible proof before I get my hopes up the NBOME will do the right thing and do the same
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The NBOME has to cancel the PE for the Class of 2021 now. Residency programs probably won’t require USMLE Step 2 CS or COMLEX Level 2 PE so what’s the point in having the test. Somebody has to put pressure on the NBOME to waive the PE for the Class of 2021 now. What if someone picks up COVID from the PE and then the NBOME gets sued? The NBOME better cancel the PE for the class of 2021 because it’s the right thing to do!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
The NBOME has to cancel the PE for the Class of 2021 now. Residency programs probably won’t require USMLE Step 2 CS or COMLEX Level 2 PE so what’s the point in having the test. Somebody has to put pressure on the NBOME to waive the PE for the Class of 2021 now. What if someone picks up COVID from the PE and then the NBOME gets sued? The NBOME better cancel the PE for the class of 2021 because it’s the right thing to do!

Hell if CS gets truly cancelled I might switch my PE date to March or something just to give em the finga! It really would be ridiculous for the NBOME to not follow suit
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Alright fellow DOs, most of us are taking CK CE and possibly PE this summer. While MDs are only taking CK. Are we really about to take 3x the amount of board exams??? MAN THE BATTLE STATIONS
 
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: 6 users
It’s official! Guess @AnatomyGrey12 doesn't have to eat crow, his hat, his words, or whatever he promised earlier lol
 

Attachments

  • CF5D927C-192F-471E-B338-E743BCF1AAE3.jpeg
    CF5D927C-192F-471E-B338-E743BCF1AAE3.jpeg
    192.5 KB · Views: 92
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Hell if CS gets truly cancelled I might switch my PE date to March or something just to give em the finga! It really would be ridiculous for the NBOME to not follow suit
Haha It's highly likely they'll have to cancel future dates anyways.
 

Also, I came across this a couple weeks ago--perhaps we ought to follow our MD colleagues and do the same. It may have helped push the NBME over.
 
we should all just cancel our PE dates LOL let's seem them try to fit us in before may 2021 with that on their hands.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
Am I wrong to assume that the NBOME has more to lose by cancelling vs. hosting it, somebody suing, and having to settle. Pretty sure the numbers are still in favor of requiring the PE.
 
  • Sad
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Am I wrong to assume that the NBOME has more to lose by cancelling vs. hosting it, somebody suing, and having to settle. Pretty sure the numbers are still in favor of requiring the PE.

You're not wrong. Plus don't we have to eventually take it for licensure? If residency programs say that this year it's not required. Great, but we still would need to take it to complete the boards so then the question becomes when would you feel comfortable taking it? Maybe it's less stressful to just wait until residency starts? Or maybe you have an exam date lined up soon and getting it out of the way makes more sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You're not wrong. Plus don't we have to eventually take it for licensure? If residency programs say that this year it's not required. Great, but we still would need to take it to complete the boards so then the question becomes when would you feel comfortable taking it? Maybe it's less stressful to just wait until residency starts? Or maybe you have an exam date lined up soon and getting it out of the way makes more sense.
I mean--this is true. But it can just as easily not be required. It's not like this whole thing isn't a contrived requirement in the first place. The original intention of the CS and the PE was to ensure incoming residents knew their physical exams. It led to schools more reliably teaching this information, but do we really have to pay 1.3k to PROVE it? At my school, they shove us in the SP lab every chance they get. Times have changed and everyone takes bedside manner more seriously.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
All I know is that I’m someone who was a good boy and took this thing in January, had to travel far and spent ~2k. It was a huge sacrifice and royal pain. If they cancel this thing I hope they give me a refund, but I’m sure they won’t. Freaking sucks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
All I know is that I’m someone who was a good boy and took this thing in January, had to travel far and spent ~2k. It was a huge sacrifice and royal pain. If they cancel this thing I hope they give me a refund, but I’m sure they won’t. Freaking sucks.

Sounds like you're implying that some of us purposefully don't want to take it or are at fault in some fashion for not having taken it earlier. Can tell you that had my school allowed us to take it before April I'd have had mine done in January as well. Also, if they do just postpone it for the class of 2021, we'll eventually have to make it up so you're in a better place than the rest of us anyway
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
All I know is that I’m someone who was a good boy and took this thing in January, had to travel far and spent ~2k. It was a huge sacrifice and royal pain. If they cancel this thing I hope they give me a refund, but I’m sure they won’t. Freaking sucks.

It would be unfortunate for you to have spent that much money. My original date for the PE was in the first week of April, so I just barely missed the cut. On a positive note, you can "prove" you have good clinical abilities by having the PE score. Is it worth $2k? Probably not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
It would be unfortunate for you to have spent that much money. My original date for the PE was in the first week of April, so I just barely missed the cut. On a positive note, you can "prove" you have good clinical abilities by having the PE score. Is it worth $2k? Probably not.
Haha definitely not worth $2k.

Sounds like you're implying that some of us purposefully don't want to take it or are at fault in some fashion for not having taken it earlier. Can tell you that had my school allowed us to take it before April I'd have had mine done in January as well. Also, if they do just postpone it for the class of 2021, we'll eventually have to make it up so you're in a better place than the rest of us anyway

Not implying anything, the “good boy” comment is just a joke. Actually took it early cause I was afraid I was gonna fail and need time for a retake, my school allowed us to take it starting in Jan. I am definitely saying that it's not fair to those who already paid all that money and took this thing if they cancel it altogether. They should also refund those students, but at that point the SPs and proctors have already been paid, there's no reasonable way to refund us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Haha definitely not worth $2k.



Not implying anything, the “good boy” comment is just a joke. Actually took it early cause I was afraid I was gonna fail and need time for a retake, my school allowed us to take it starting in Jan. I am definitely saying that it's not fair to those who already paid all that money and took this thing if they cancel it altogether. They should also refund those students, but at that point the SPs and proctors have already been paid, there's no reasonable way to refund us.

I personally would be fine if they kept my money and just kicked the can down the road for us to take it post match, but I do get where you're coming from. Sorry, VSAS got me in a mooood
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
If the PE ends up being suspended like the CS, ERAS/USMLE should remove the ability to even submit a transcript for PE/CS with your application. this protects the students who: scheduled their exams in the spring and now are unable to retest in time as well as those who failed the test pre-pandemic and may be unable to retake in time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
If the PE ends up being suspended like the CS, ERAS/USMLE should remove the ability to even submit a transcript for PE/CS with your application. this protects the students who: scheduled their exams in the spring and now are unable to retest in time as well as those who failed the test pre-pandemic and may be unable to retake in time.
Honestly with regard to equity being the focus they should just do this no matter what and keep it for their dumb licensing requirement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
If the PE ends up being suspended like the CS, ERAS/USMLE should remove the ability to even submit a transcript for PE/CS with your application.

Personally I think they should just do this anyway, and probably will since the majority of applicants are MD's without a CS score available. It would eliminate any potential issues that could arise.
 
I have a strong feeling they will do this for MD students, but they should also do the same for DO students regarding the PE. For this cycle, there should be no relative advantage/disadvantage conferred for this test results. Students who were able to take/pass the PE early should not be given an advantage, nor should other students be penalized for factors outside their control. The only way to truly take the PE out of the equation is to not make the test result visible this cycle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I have a strong feeling they will do this for MD students, but they should also do the same for DO students regarding the PE. For this cycle, there should be no relative advantage/disadvantage conferred for this test results. Students who were able to take/pass the PE early should not be given an advantage, nor should other students be penalized for factors outside their control. The only way to truly take the PE out of the equation is to not make the test result visible this cycle.

Yep. 10% of our class has their PE scheduled in February through no fault of their own. Eliminating it's effect in residency applications completely is the only way to ensure it doesn't harm anyone in the Match, which is honestly the main thing anyone cares about. I don't really care if we have to take it or not, it's the fact that it could hurt me because I might be one of the few DO's that won't have a score by rank lists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It’s official! Guess @AnatomyGrey12 doesn't have to eat crow, his hat, his words, or whatever he promised earlier lol

Freakin unprecedented times. The NBME was so averse to dropping this CS they increased the fail rate by a few percent when MD students protested a few yrs back by saying its useless because, among other things, "virtually everyone passes". Now they just drop it for at least 1.5 yrs. The CS must really be essential for the safety of the public :rolleyes:.

The NBOME better do something similar, but honestly who knows
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Freakin unprecedented times. The NBME was so averse to dropping this CS they increased the fail rate by a few percent when MD students protested a few yrs back by saying its useless because, among other things, "virtually everyone passes". Now they just drop it for at least 1.5 yrs. The CS must really be essential for the safety of the public :rolleyes:.

The NBOME better do something similar, but honestly who knows

They aren't. Our school admins or something just had some national meeting with them and Gimpel told them that it didn't matter that the NBME did this and that they are still planning to begin PE administrations in July no matter what. All said in his usual condescending manner of course. Supposedly he said the NBOME "board" had a meeting about this already and this was what they decided.

Once again the NBOME shows just how weak and inferior they are to their MD counterparts. It's pretty embarrassing to be a DO when these are the people who are supposed to be in leadership positions representing us on a national stage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
They aren't. Our school admins or something just had some national meeting with them and Gimpel told them that it didn't matter that the NBME did this and that they are still planning to begin PE administrations in July no matter what. All said in his usual condescending manner of course. Supposedly he said the NBOME "board" had a meeting about this already and this was what they decided.

Once again the NBOME shows just how weak and inferior they are to their MD counterparts. It's pretty embarrassing to be a DO when these are the people who are supposed to be in leadership positions representing us on a national stage.
I just want to know if he is aware of the current Philly and Chicago Covid status. Honestly, he probably isn't given how far up his own ass he is.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Hmm
Reactions: 4 users
I just want to know if he is aware of the current Philly and Chicago Covid status. Honestly, he probably isn't given how far up his own ass he is.

Reportedly they said that they are in the process of getting special permission to deliver the exam anyway..... although it sounds like this is something in the works from before the NBME decision, and I could easily see city leadership being like, "hold up, why are you delivering your test and that other organization isn't?"

People should probably email city/state leadership in those two states if we really want to be aggressive with this. They probably don't even realize the NBOME counterpart has cancelled their version of the test.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
specifically regarding the CS/PE transcript issue, it would probably be more effective to go through ERAS instead of the NBOME
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The big thing for us isn't whether or not we still take PE, honestly who cares about actually taking it, it's the fact that it could hurt us in the match if some percentage of people have it and some don't. I am really hoping that ERAS simply won't even have a CS/PE report option on there at all for anyone. It's the only way to prevent it from hurting people. If you look on the scheduler for PE there is roughly a quarter of all DO students that won't have a score by rank lists based on the current scheduled dates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Any idea when this atrocity will be officially announced by NBOME?
 
Ah yes, this is how we show the MDs we are superior to them.

nbome on friday: “residency PDs will choose you over those worthless slimy MD colleagues because you will have the stamp of approval of the mo$t important exam ever on your resume!”
Unless you taking it in September or beyond
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
They aren't. Our school admins or something just had some national meeting with them and Gimpel told them that it didn't matter that the NBME did this and that they are still planning to begin PE administrations in July no matter what. All said in his usual condescending manner of course. Supposedly he said the NBOME "board" had a meeting about this already and this was what they decided.

Once again the NBOME shows just how weak and inferior they are to their MD counterparts. It's pretty embarrassing to be a DO when these are the people who are supposed to be in leadership positions representing us on a national stage.
Do you think anything will change Gimpel's mind? I bet there will be massive protests over them holding the PE in 2 hotspots. If the Deans of the schools put enough pressure on the NBOME, maybe the NBOME will cave in and do what the NBME did. I bet the NBOME will eventually have to cave in if this pandemic keeps up but Gimpel is pretty stubborn. I heard COCA is putting pressure on the NBOME to have the PE so maybe we could blame COCA instead of the NBOME. Still, the NBOME is putting lives in danger by conducting the "most important exam" you will ever take.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
This is the nbome we’re talking about, all they’ve thought of is clear masks in the past 3 months. I doubt theres much concern outside of whether or not they can continue taking our money
"Guys what if we did PE but with REAL germs and consequences?!"
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Do you think anything will change Gimpel's mind? I bet there will be massive protests over them holding the PE in 2 hotspots. If the Deans of the schools put enough pressure on the NBOME, maybe the NBOME will cave in and do what the NBME did. I bet the NBOME will eventually have to cave in if this pandemic keeps up but Gimpel is pretty stubborn. I heard COCA is putting pressure on the NBOME to have the PE so maybe we could blame COCA instead of the NBOME. Still, the NBOME is putting lives in danger by conducting the "most important exam" you will ever take.
Why does coca care
 
@AnatomyGrey12, we should coauthor a paper refuting the article Gimpel said is coming out. I'm thinking we can find the works: FCOI, spin, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Do you think anything will change Gimpel's mind? I bet there will be massive protests over them holding the PE in 2 hotspots. If the Deans of the schools put enough pressure on the NBOME, maybe the NBOME will cave in and do what the NBME did. I bet the NBOME will eventually have to cave in if this pandemic keeps up but Gimpel is pretty stubborn. I heard COCA is putting pressure on the NBOME to have the PE so maybe we could blame COCA instead of the NBOME. Still, the NBOME is putting lives in danger by conducting the "most important exam" you will ever take.
It would take pressure from the right places, unfortunately students aren't the source that will matter. It would take deans, non-medical entities, etc.

The silver bullet would be to convince even just one state to amend their licensing laws to say that osteopathic graduates can get their license by completion of the COMLEX series OR the USMLE series. That would be the nail in the NBOME coffin, because it undercuts the "we only exist to produce valid tests for licensure" facade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I wish someone knew. I've tried googling it from 4654 different search phrases. I would literally pay $500 for that.
There’s an add on for Firefox or chrome that people reference, the service is listed a lot of times in the step 2 section under med students.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hell if CS gets truly cancelled I might switch my PE date to March or something just to give em the finga! It really would be ridiculous for the NBOME to not follow suit
Just get it over with, if it’s after October residency’s won’t see the score unless you reupload. And with the significant amount of people who won’t have taken it this year, having a pass would be a real advantage.
 
Found the schedule extension: is check 4 change for Firefox hat tip to the below post in step 2 section:
I highly doubt there will even be CS exams this year, but you can use the firefox extension check4change to get an alert any time a spot opens up. I used it to change my testing date last year.
 
  • Love
Reactions: 1 user
So if this is the new timeline for ERAS..would having our COMLEX CE scores in before Oct 21st make us late? Or is it recommended to have it in by Sept 1?
1590776047652.png
 
So if this is the new timeline for ERAS..would having our COMLEX CE scores in before Oct 21st make us late? Or is it recommended to have it in by Sept 1?
View attachment 308233

Our school told us that as long as the score is in before Oct 21, we are fine. The Residencies cannot see anything before then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Our school told us that as long as the score is in before Oct 21, we are fine. The Residencies cannot see anything before then.
For once a school admin is correct. Better buy a bug out kit or something, end times are near. :p
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Top