Away rotations

[DCBigBAPS]

First off, congratulations to those who matched! I am currently a third year who is planning on going into anesthesia. I was just wondering if anyone had any particularly good experiences at a school on rotations. I am in the process of trying to find any good away rotations. I am looking for a place with first and foremost, good experience, and (hopefully) a letter that can really help my application. I have talked to a lot of individuals and they stated that I should be rock solid in terms of grades and such, but I just wanted to have a good letter from a school other than mine. Thanks for the help.

I understand that I should "rotate where you want to go"... but honestly, I don't know where I go. I should have the grades etc. to apply to a top program, but do I really want to? It is just hard to find information on the overal atmosphere at some of these big name programs (MGH, Columbia, Hopkins, etc.). Who wants to go to a malignant program regardless of name? I would love to match at a great program, but only if I am happy there. I have done some homework, but now I am looking for information from those with the experience!

Any help is greatly appreciated.

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[chicamedica]

First off, congratulations to those who matched! I am currently a third year who is planning on going into anesthesia. I was just wondering if anyone had any particularly good experiences at a school on rotations. I am in the process of trying to find any good away rotations. I am looking for a place with first and foremost, good experience, and (hopefully) a letter that can really help my application. I have talked to a lot of individuals and they stated that I should be rock solid in terms of grades and such, but I just wanted to have a good letter from a school other than mine. Thanks for the help.

I understand that I should "rotate where you want to go"... but honestly, I don't know where I go. I should have the grades etc. to apply to a top program, but do I really want to? It is just hard to find information on the overal atmosphere at some of these big name programs (MGH, Columbia, Hopkins, etc.). Who wants to go to a malignant program regardless of name? I would love to match at a great program, but only if I am happy there. I have done some homework, but now I am looking for information from those with the experience!

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I did an away at hopkins. . .was a good rotation, better structured than the one at my home program. Learned a ton. And housing wasn't a problem, cause I just stayed at the dorm right across the street. The dorm was a dump (and hard to go back to a dorm room after living in an apt for 4 years), but fine for one month.

 

[supahfresh]

I think you should consider what region of the country in which you may want to live. Then narrow it down to programs in that region. The programs seem to know each other if they are closer and if your letter is from one program in a certain city, then other programs will believe that you are serious about living in that city.

for example, I did my anesthesia rotation at northwestern because it has a good rep and its in my hometown of chicago. consequently, I pulled interviews at all the chicago programs.

ventdependant did his at UW and got interviews at v-mason and UW whereas I could not.

 

[jennyboo]

If you have strong grades and strong boards, you may not need or want to do an away unless you 1) need a good anesthesia LOR, or 2) have personal interest in a particular program that is outside of your med school's geographic area. With strong grades and strong boards and a well written anesthesia letter, most of the top programs will interview you regardless of whether you did an away with them, so you don't precisely need to put yourself out there just to get an interview. However, if you did well in your home anesthesia elective, you will most likely do well in your aways too and it would still help you in that case.

Residency programs do consider your away elective with them as a statement that you are interested in their program. And if they like you as a potential person to work with, they will consider your application more strongly than if you did not do the rotation with them (if all else is good in your application). On the other hand, I had one interviewer point out that too many anesthesia rotations is not necessarily a good thing, as you are wasting time that you could otherwise use to experience rotations you'll never get again after med school or your internship. So don't overdo it -- one home and one away is more than enough, though I did two and I've heard of one person doing three aways.

When I was on the interview trail, places where other students really enjoyed their rotations or were really impressed by the programs include: Mt. Sinai (both aways and interviews), Beth Israel Deaconess (aways), MGH (aways) , Duke (interviews), Virginia Mason (interviews). When I did my aways, many residents were really impressed by Duke as a residency program.

I have heard mixed feedback about aways at: UCSF, Yale, Penn. But experiences are highly variable.

 

[VentdependenT]

I think you should consider what region of the country in which you may want to live. Then narrow it down to programs in that region. The programs seem to know each other if they are closer and if your letter is from one program in a certain city, then other programs will believe that you are serious about living in that city.

for example, I did my anesthesia rotation at northwestern because it has a good rep and its in my hometown of chicago. consequently, I pulled interviews at all the chicago programs.

ventdependant did his at UW and got interviews at v-mason and UW whereas I could not.

word to supah

I went to University of Washington's affiliate Harborview Hospital in August. Best rotation of medical school. Blew my other anesthesiology rotation outta the water.

 

[Soon2BENT]

I think you should consider what region of the country in which you may want to live. Then narrow it down to programs in that region. The programs seem to know each other if they are closer and if your letter is from one program in a certain city, then other programs will believe that you are serious about living in that city.

for example, I did my anesthesia rotation at northwestern because it has a good rep and its in my hometown of chicago. consequently, I pulled interviews at all the chicago programs.

ventdependant did his at UW and got interviews at v-mason and UW whereas I could not.

For many this holds true, but I want to play a little devil's advocate. While aways are probably the best for looking at a program and seeing what it is like there, I wouldn't do it solely to improved interview chances in a certain city. I'm not trying to pump myself up at all, but I did fairly well on boards, did no aways, have good grades (when i say good, i mean passed, i'm not and honors person) and i got interviews all across the country. now i'm not trying to refute what is being said above, because for most cases it is probably true. I just want to throw the money factor into the picture because aways can be expensive (and hard got get, ie, I wanted to go to UW, they couldnt accommodate a spot for me, and i still interviewed there, and i'm not from the west or northwest). you'll need that money to interview. sometimes i wish i did an away, but i'm not kicking myself for not. i think i applied to about 26 programs and i didnt get interviews at about 5 of them (2 of them didnt fill, so how do you like me now UCSF and Rush, jk!) my summary is: if you've done well in school (above avg boards , havent failed a class) then you should honestly be able to get interviews at all programs (provided the rest of your application is well rounded, ie, i had research, but not anesthesia reseach, no pubs, i played sports and did some volunteer stuff, thats about it). i think if you know a place that you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to go and MUST get a closer look, then i would recommend an away.

again, supah is probably 90% correct in his assessment, but i'm just saying when the beginning of 4th year comes around, check your bank account and see if its worth your while because if you're a good candidate, you probably wont need it. thats just my opinion and we know what opinions are like....

 

[Soon2BENT]

And a quick 2 cents regarding "Big Name Programs". I advise you to not let that cloud your judgement too much. I'm not saying they're not good because I know chica is going to Columbia, and yes, when you hear Columbia people become like Black Rob, "Whoa!". But some of the other places out there are just as good and you may find yourself enjoying yourself and you classmates more. I'm not hating on Columbia because I actually really liked that program and the area of town its in (can live on upper west as opposed to more expensive murray hill for NYU (my hood) or UES for Sinai). I'm just saying I love my home school and if I wasnt so die hard to blow this town I may have stayed, but I grew up here, so its time to go.

BtW, vent, I loved UW. I destined to end my days in Seattle.

 

[chicamedica]

And a quick 2 cents regarding "Big Name Programs". I advise you to not let that cloud your judgement too much. I'm not saying they're not good because I know chica is going to Columbia, and yes, when you hear Columbia people become like Black Rob, "Whoa!". But some of the other places out there are just as good and you may find yourself enjoying yourself and you classmates more. I'm not hating on Columbia because I actually really liked that program and the area of town its in (can live on upper west as opposed to more expensive murray hill for NYU (my hood) or UES for Sinai). I'm just saying I love my home school and if I wasnt so die hard to blow this town I may have stayed, but I grew up here, so its time to go.

BtW, vent, I loved UW. I destined to end my days in Seattle.

Aww I'm flattered soon2b, but I agree with you. Lots of anesthesia programs are big name in different ways. I kinda feel like if one refers to a "big name" program, one should qualify that with what the program is big name for. In other words, e.g. columbia is big name for research/academics, Cornell & Mt Sinai are big name for clinical training and prep for private practice. Not too familiar with NYU's program so cant comment, but i've heard people say it's a pretty darned respectable place.

 

[ThinkFast007]

agree w/ chica in the above post.

but i also believe there are a lot of REALLY good community programs. Again, it's my experience that you do not need LORs from 'big' names. Personally, i've found that a GREAT letter (even from a community program) posses great power.

Guys, also. Put things into perspective. Away rotations in my opinion should be down at places where you can realistically have a shot of getting into. I mean why 'waste' an away rotation (presuming you are doing this for 'audition' purposes and not just for the experience) at say MGH if your step 1 score is a 182? do the away somewhere you have a chance!

good luck folks.

 

[Idiopathic]

The best advice I can give about aways:

I planned two aways - at UTSW in Dallas and Vandy in Nashville. I picked both because of their locale/region and their name. I knew that both would be ranked highly on my list, knew I would get excellent training, and hoped to get good letters. They were polar opposites in almost every regard, but I enjoyed them both. At SW, they had 20 students on service that month, and we had to schedule when we were going to take call, because everyone was guning for anesthesia. You learn a lot, the residents are awesome, and the faculty is without peer, but something about my month there caused me to rank it 3rd.

At Vandy, there were four students on service (similar number of total OR's) and the doctor in charge of the rotation would call us every night with what we were to do tomorrow (i.e. chronic pain one day, outpatient surgery the next, take off the next day and take CT call, resulting in a double lung transplant at 9 PM). We got a thorough exposure to every area of the service, which was a lot harder at UTSW.

So, where does this leave us? Well, I ranked Vandy number 1, for many reasons in addition to training (benefits, location, etc.), but I can almost guarantee that they wouldnt have been so high in my mind (might still have been number 1 though) if I hadnt had such a good month there. UTSW, on the other hand, might have been higher on my list, had I not done a month there. Don't get me wrong, I would be jumping for joy to be training at UTSW, but we have to have preferences.

Moral of this story: your first order of business in deciding where to do aways should be determining whether you would want to train there, given the information you have. I knew that I would love to go to either Vandy or UT a year ago at this time, and was planning my rotations by April/May (did UT in July and Vandy in September). I didnt schedule rotations at MGH, Mayo, JHU (although I considered the latter) because I didnt think the location was ideal. So, what I was doing, when I was planning where to go, was looking for a perfect situation. I wouldnt shotgun my aways just to go to a big name, but I could see doing a month somewhere to spend time in NYC, SF, etc. if you were looking to do that. For exposure though, its important to know what you want, because you can invariably be swayed one way or another by an away rotation.

In the end, I found the perfect match for me of location, program size, training, faculty, residents, convenience (4-year program), but I did my homework, and knew a lot of things about the program, before going into the rotation. An involved course coordinator is a huge asset as well.

edit: I also got two excellent LOR's as well.

 

[supahfresh]

agree w/ chica in the above post.

but i also believe there are a lot of REALLY good community programs. Again, it's my experience that you do not need LORs from 'big' names. Personally, i've found that a GREAT letter (even from a community program) posses great power.

Guys, also. Put things into perspective. Away rotations in my opinion should be down at places where you can realistically have a shot of getting into. I mean why 'waste' an away rotation (presuming you are doing this for 'audition' purposes and not just for the experience) at say MGH if your step 1 score is a 182? do the away somewhere you have a chance!

good luck folks.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this post. This is exactly why one should do an away rotation. if you're weak on paper, but you are solid on your rotation and they love you, you have a chance. Guys, don't sell yourself short. If you want to go to MGH or wherever, just go for it! Think positive. It certainly won't be a waste if your letter comes from MGH.

Take me for example. DO student with no research. I wanted plastics initially and went to UW for a plastics sub-I cuz I think they have one of the best programs. Do you really think they would have given my app the time? By going there, I did an awesome job and felt it helped my chances. I got an interview that I otherwise would not haven gotten. I wish I could end this story by saying I got in, but I changed to anesthesia. you get the point.

 

[DCBigBAPS]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. it is much appreciated. I am originally from the DC/Baltimore area which is why JHU was high on my list. Also, my brother goes to college in Baltimore. I plan on doing only one away rotation honestly.

Just to cover technicalities... how many aways did people apply for (I can't believe programs charge money!)? What months if you plan on getting a letter? How about if you don't care about getting a letter but just want to impress for interviews?

I would like to tell someone my grades, rank, extras, etc. to get a sense of where I stand, but I know people get wierded out when people post things like that . Overall, I am definitely going to be optimistic as someone just mentioned... but, no reason to shoot for a school if I have a slim chance, when I can put my energy into a different institution. Thanks for the great advice everyone!

 

[chicamedica]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. it is much appreciated. I am originally from the DC/Baltimore area which is why JHU was high on my list. Also, my brother goes to college in Baltimore. I plan on doing only one away rotation honestly.

Just to cover technicalities... how many aways did people apply for (I can't believe programs charge money!)? What months if you plan on getting a letter? How about if you don't care about getting a letter but just want to impress for interviews?

I would like to tell someone my grades, rank, extras, etc. to get a sense of where I stand, but I know people get wierded out when people post things like that . Overall, I am definitely going to be optimistic as someone just mentioned... but, no reason to shoot for a school if I have a slim chance, when I can put my energy into a different institution. Thanks for the great advice everyone!

I only had room in my 4th year schedule for one away rotation, unfortunately. applying for the Hopkins away was really easy. It's just a form plus 2 LORs (one from your med school dean), and i think they also wanted to see board scores (although mine were nothing special and i had no probs getting the away rotation). You will get a "courtesy interview" but warning: (1) if you're there during interview season they will compel you to interview while you're there (which can be good and bad) and (2) even if you honor the rotation and impress everyone you work with, there is no guarantee you'll even be ranked.

 

[Idiopathic]

I seem to remember the Mayo app being very difficult (essay?) and the UTSW being very easy. Some make you wait, some dont.

 

[jennyboo]

How many aways should you apply for and do?

I applied for two and did two, and after reading the FAQ on this forum ended up "rotating up to match down" -- in other words, I did rotations where I had slim chance of matching.

I researched them in January, applied for them February, had them arranged by end of March, did one in June/July, and did one in Aug/Sept.

The first one was very well structured with the faculty in charge making sure to stop by regularly to ask about your experience. You were given a schedule with good teaching residents.

The other one, you had to check the board and wander into rooms randomly, no one knew to expect you or knew what to do with you, and I barely saw any faculty.

I thought one away was enough, and regretted the second one -- at least I got to see that I wouldn't rank the other place highly, but my second away was my third month of anesthesia -- you could recite all the answers to all the pimp questions in a bored monotone by then. Way too much, and in this field aways aren't expected.

I matched where I did one of my aways. I'd be glad to tell you more about the specifics of where I rotated and what they were like, just PM.

 

[Carm]

Aways are a great way to guage a program, and an extra avenue to sell yourself. The hardest part is looking past the rotation flavor and trying to get a feel for what life is really like for the residents. There can be a big discrepency between what the rotation was like from a students perspective, and what your next four years would hold as a resident.

 

[smgilles]

I seem to remember the Mayo app being very difficult (essay?) and the UTSW being very easy. Some make you wait, some dont.

Yes Idio, the Mayo application is like reapplying to medical school all over again. The Cleveland Clinic has had the easiest application by far.

 

[VentdependenT]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this post. This is exactly why one should do an away rotation. if you're weak on paper, but you are solid on your rotation and they love you, you have a chance. Guys, don't sell yourself short. If you want to go to MGH or wherever, just go for it! Think positive. It certainly won't be a waste if your letter comes from MGH.

Take me for example. DO student with no research. I wanted plastics initially and went to UW for a plastics sub-I cuz I think they have one of the best programs. Do you really think they would have given my app the time? By going there, I did an awesome job and felt it helped my chances. I got an interview that I otherwise would not haven gotten. I wish I could end this story by saying I got in, but I changed to anesthesia. you get the point.

BTW, Supah looks just like Tony Robbins. All teeth baby.

 

[supahfresh]

BTW, Supah looks just like Tony Robbins. All teeth baby.

Actually I offer hypnosis sessions for positive thinking and smoking cessation. Soon to come is ivy league accents and yacht lingo.