AZCOM Class of 2009

[LukeWhite]

Interesting, because my class was one of the two that had H/P/F grading, and our class ranks were set after year two.

Believe me, I wish that weren't the case....I was a much better student years 3 and 4. But, as has been mentioned before, they really can't adjust rankings for you on a P/F basis--basically everyone gets the same grade (except, obviously, for the very few people who fail).

And the MS III exams are an effin' joke. They know this, too. They use the same exam for each rotation over and over and over. This way, the people who take, say Surgery (which was the toughest exam) early on all barely pass. But, by the end of the year (when all of the questions have circulated), people are scoring high 80's and 90's.

There was some speech about "recognizing" the top performing clinical students in the dean's letter, however, your numerical class rank is final after year two.

Thanks for the informative reply Boomer! I'd be interested in exactly what the recognizance in the Deans' letter involves, but will figure out the details and post what I find.

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[novacek88]

I hope you learned something Luke. Sometimes it pays to listen to senior students who have been there. I'm glad you are enthusiastic about AZCOM but you have to be careful about conveying what you believe versus the facts. Many students are basing their decision on what people like you say.

 

[novacek88]

Interesting, because my class was one of the two that had H/P/F grading, and our class ranks were set after year two.

Believe me, I wish that weren't the case....I was a much better student years 3 and 4. But, as has been mentioned before, they really can't adjust rankings for you on a P/F basis--basically everyone gets the same grade (except, obviously, for the very few people who fail).

And the MS III exams are an effin' joke. They know this, too. They use the same exam for each rotation over and over and over. This way, the people who take, say Surgery (which was the toughest exam) early on all barely pass. But, by the end of the year (when all of the questions have circulated), people are scoring high 80's and 90's.

There was some speech about "recognizing" the top performing clinical students in the dean's letter, however, your numerical class rank is final after year two.

I was waiting for you to show up. All these second years were doubting me.

It is an effin joke and many people in your class complained because people were passing the questions along so that those taking it later on were getting 80's on that exam. The administration could have fixed the problem if they wrote a new shelf each month but that would require too much effort and they figure it was better to abandon the idea of Honoring altogether.

 

[hylacinerea]

Student class ranks are computed after each completed quarter except during fieldwork and clinical rotations. Class rank is not included on the official college transcript. A student who wishes to have his/her class rank included in an official document must make a written request to the Registrar. Class rank may not be available for all programs.

Novacek, I think you mentioned earlier that our class rank is calculated only after the first two years but according to the student handbook it looks like the rank is calculated after every quarter for the first two years. Is this a new policy or am I just missing something? Is it calculated but you just don't get to see it?

Thanks,
hyla

 

[Tonloc08]

We'll look forward to seeing you in Glendale this August! By the way, where in CO are you from?

I'm from Greeley, CO. I attended the University of Nothern Colorado there.

 

[Boomer]

Thanks for the informative reply Boomer! I'd be interested in exactly what the recognizance in the Deans' letter involves, but will figure out the details and post what I find.

Keep in mind that our class HAD honors available as a grade. How they figured honors was absolutely absurd. Depended very little on your evaluation--I had two attendings call me "the best student from AZCOM" they had ever seen, but didn't earn honors in either rotation. In contrast, I remember a rotation with an attending who gave EVERYBODY 5's across the board, making no comments, and I did well on the exam--Honors for Boomer there....Depended heavily on your post-rotation exam score--again, advantage taking it later in the year. It was really pointless.

Basically, they told us that a person could improve their overall package by performing well in 3rd and 4th year, but it would only be noted in the dean's letter--not reflected in rank.

The "Professionalism" score, somehow takes into account performance on SPE, the professionalism score on your evals, I think attendance at 3rd year lectures (and not being caught signing out early, etc....), if you ever got in trouble with the Dean....Don't ask me about specifics--I have entirely too much common sense to comprehend it.

 

[novacek88]

Novacek, I think you mentioned earlier that our class rank is calculated only after the first two years but according to the student handbook it looks like the rank is calculated after every quarter for the first two years. Is this a new policy or am I just missing something? Is it calculated but you just don't get to see it?

Thanks,
hyla

It's just stating the obvious. We are on a quarter system so obviously your overall percentage from each quarter(your percentile in each class) will be accounted into your class rank. I never said your class rank wasn't calculated during your first two years; it's just not released until after your second year. If you recall, I said they intentionally don't release your class rank in the first two years to avoid unnecessary competition among students. I might not have said it on this thread but I said it in the COMP vs. AZCOM thread below. Sorry for the confusion

Here is some more information: Your class rank is based on your overall percentage. You are not given grades; you are given percentages. There are no grade point averages. If you get an 88% in Anatomy, that is an 88%, it's not a B+, 3.5 or a High pass. On your transcript, it will show "Anatomy -88) Therefore if someone has a cumulative percentage of a 100% at the end of second year, that person would be ranked first in the class or share the first ranking with anyone else who has a 100% which is usually 2 or 3 people at the end of first year. By the end of second year, the percentrages drop a bit due to micro and path.. What you will find out is the top 10 percent in the class are people with overall percentages of 95% or higher. I don't know how they do it but there are some really bright people at AZCOM. At the end of your first year, there will be people with close to 100% overall. Students can't figure out their rank but they can determine their overall percentage. And from that, they can get an idea of where they stand in the class but not it isn't officially released until after your second year.

 

[DFrancyk]

Stop with the cheerleading routine already......Yes, it's true that at a teaching hospital, you will compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, attendings and pa's but guess what that is what your residency will be like. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of doing your residency in some preceptor's office when he will serve you milk and cookies and let you go home at 4 PM. The hands on nature of the preceptorship is nice but residency is more than hands-on procedures. The hospital has a language of its own. There is something to be said for being pimped on the spot among your fellow med students that you won't get in a preceptorship. You will have to learn how to survive in a hospital setting and you won't be prepared for that unless you do rotations in a hospital based setting. I matched into a very prestigious IM program and I did two months of IM at a teaching hospital and I'm glad I did it because when I did my IM electives in Phoenix, I was ahead of every student I was with.

And no student should feel entitled to attend AZCOM. It's not as if AZCOM isn't charging you tuiting (a lot of tuition I might add). Providing rotations in local hospitals...IS THEIR JOB. That is what you are paying tuition for. It's not a priviledge for them to provide you with opportunities to rotate locally. If AZCOM is going to charge you 40 per year for tuition, the least they could is work with the University of Arizona to work out some payment plan so that our students can rotate locally in hospitals they are affiliated with.

If you were admitted to another medical school, I would encourage you to do your research and examine their third and fourth year curriculum when compared to AZCOM. The first two years at AZCOM are nice but then after that, the organization is very loose.

Cole did state that they are starting a budget to start paying rotation sites next year. Now, I'm not a cheerleader for AZCOM, but I was there and this IS what was said.

On the other hand, your comments on how you are a senior and hence you know best, whatever... you sure did look like a jerk pulling your seniority bulls@!t. I don't care if you are two years ahead of me or whatever, it doesn't give you the right to disrespect me nor anyone else who have engaged in this draining conversation. All who post are entitled to their opinions, as you are to yours. You can be as cynical as you wish, but as far as I am concerned, I am finished with this conversation.

 

[larke28]

anyone know if the DO shelf exams are the same as the ones given on MD rotations?

I was waiting for you to show up. All these second years were doubting me.

It is an effin joke and many people in your class complained because people were passing the questions along so that those taking it later on were getting 80's on that exam. The administration could have fixed the problem if they wrote a new shelf each month but that would require too much effort and they figure it was better to abandon the idea of Honoring altogether.

 

[Inquiringmind24]

I'm from Greeley, CO. I attended the University of Nothern Colorado there.

Tonloc08,

What year did you graduate from UNC? I've heard Greeley is a nice town and is much cheaper to live in than Boulder. When do you plan to move down to AZ?

-Matt

 

[novacek88]

Cole did state that they are starting a budget to start paying rotation sites next year. Now, I'm not a cheerleader for AZCOM, but I was there and this IS what was said.

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.

On the other hand, your comments on how you are a senior and hence you know best, whatever... you sure did look like a jerk pulling your seniority bulls@!t. I don't care if you are two years ahead of me or whatever, it doesn't give you the right to disrespect me nor anyone else who have engaged in this draining conversation. All who post are entitled to their opinions, as you are to yours. You can be as cynical as you wish, but as far as I am concerned, I am finished with this conversation.

And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.

 

[Iris4Jen]

Stop with the cheerleading routine already......Yes, it's true that at a teaching hospital, you will compete with fellow med students, residents, externs, fellows, np's, attendings and pa's but guess what that is what your residency will be like. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of doing your residency in some preceptor's office when he will serve you milk and cookies and let you go home at 4 PM. The hands on nature of the preceptorship is nice but residency is more than hands-on procedures. The hospital has a language of its own. There is something to be said for being pimped on the spot among your fellow med students that you won't get in a preceptorship. You will have to learn how to survive in a hospital setting and you won't be prepared for that unless you do rotations in a hospital based setting. I matched into a very prestigious IM program and I did two months of IM at a teaching hospital and I'm glad I did it because when I did my IM electives in Phoenix, I was ahead of every student I was with.

And no student should feel entitled to attend AZCOM. It's not as if AZCOM isn't charging you tuiting (a lot of tuition I might add). Providing rotations in local hospitals...IS THEIR JOB. That is what you are paying tuition for. It's not a priviledge for them to provide you with opportunities to rotate locally. If AZCOM is going to charge you 40 per year for tuition, the least they could is work with the University of Arizona to work out some payment plan so that our students can rotate locally in hospitals they are affiliated with.

If you were admitted to another medical school, I would encourage you to do your research and examine their third and fourth year curriculum when compared to AZCOM. The first two years at AZCOM are nice but then after that, the organization is very loose.

Just a thought to consider: What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. If you need your education totally planned out at spoon fed to you, then maybe this is not the school for you. AZCOM is about innovation, change, and trying out new things.

On the up side, we are a nationally ranked medical school... which is way more than I can say for U of A. U of A is a good school, I'm sure. However, they can not say they produce the best of the best on a regular basis. AZCOM does. And, we do it without, so far, paying for hospital based rotations. Our best students are those who are motivated to succeed, and are actually into medicine for what it is, a service to humanity. Those who are out there to be the best medical student ever, are not necessarily the best doctors. Your education is what you make of it... no matter what school you go to.

Also, what DFrancyk said is true. The dean did say that AZCOM will be paying for rotations, and that the state of Arizona will be declining funding to state funded hospitals if they do not allow osteopathic students to rotate there. Look, there is a huge shortage of doctors in Arizona. The legislature is doing everything they can to insure that all doctors educated in AZ stay in AZ as long as possible.

Finally, to all the AZCOM 09 students: YAY!! I'm so happy for you that you are happy to come to our school. You will be challenged almost daily, you will meet people who may be your life long friends, and you will have an amazing education when you are finished. We are the top scoring school on the COMLEX, we don't do too bad on the USMLE either. Our students have residencies at Stanford, Mayo, and Johns Hopkins. If you want it, they sky is the limit. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to which med school is "the best"... they are all different, and that's a good thing... people are different too. Its all about finding the school that is the best fit for you.

Oh, one more thing... if you are coming to a D.O. school because you didn't get accepted into an M.D. program, you may want to reconsider. We don't need anyone here who does not believe in a whole body approach to medicine, with patient care and consideration top priority. Also, OMM has proven a worth while technique over and over again before my very eyes. I hope that all the new students will give this skill a chance before blowing it off and becoming an Oreo-path. Good luck to all... especially those with negativity in their hearts ( you will certainly need it.) .

 

[Iris4Jen]

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.




And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.

I am really not sure who you are, but I'm sure that not every student in the third and fourth year classes would agree with all you have said about rotations. As for the class rank argument I really have no idea... I have heard that 3rd and 4th year does count, and also that it does not. But I really just have to say WHO CARES!!! Just be a good student, and make yourself into a good doctor... I don't plan on ranking super high, but I do plan on knowing my stuff when I get out there and kicking ass and taking names when it comes to patient care.

Oh, and your negativity about our school really really sucks. Which in turn tells me that... well, you suck... which means that god help your patients, because I wouldn't want a doc working me up who is as negative as you. Sorry man. Hope you can work it all out.

 

[novacek88]

Just a thought to consider: What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. If you need your education totally planned out at spoon fed to you, then maybe this is not the school for you. AZCOM is about innovation, change, and trying out new things.

On the up side, we are a nationally ranked medical school... which is way more than I can say for U of A. U of A is a good school, I'm sure. However, they can not say they produce the best of the best on a regular basis. AZCOM does. And, we do it without, so far, paying for hospital based rotations. Our best students are those who are motivated to succeed, and are actually into medicine for what it is, a service to humanity. Those who are out there to be the best medical student ever, are not necessarily the best doctors. Your education is what you make of it... no matter what school you go to.

Also, what DFrancyk said is true. The dean did say that AZCOM will be paying for rotations, and that the state of Arizona will be declining funding to state funded hospitals if they do not allow osteopathic students to rotate there. Look, there is a huge shortage of doctors in Arizona. The legislature is doing everything they can to insure that all doctors educated in AZ stay in AZ as long as possible.

Finally, to all the AZCOM 09 students: YAY!! I'm so happy for you that you are happy to come to our school. You will be challenged almost daily, you will meet people who may be your life long friends, and you will have an amazing education when you are finished. We are the top scoring school on the COMLEX, we don't do too bad on the USMLE either. Our students have residencies at Stanford, Mayo, and Johns Hopkins. If you want it, they sky is the limit. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to which med school is "the best"... they are all different, and that's a good thing... people are different too. Its all about finding the school that is the best fit for you.

Oh, one more thing... if you are coming to a D.O. school because you didn't get accepted into an M.D. program, you may want to reconsider. We don't need anyone here who does not believe in a whole body approach to medicine, with patient care and consideration top priority. Also, OMM has proven a worth while technique over and over again before my very eyes. I hope that all the new students will give this skill a chance before blowing it off and becoming an Oreo-path. Good luck to all... especially those with negativity in their hearts ( you will certainly need it.) .

You are preaching to the choir. I'm an AZCOM student who is graduating in a month. I'm not comparing us to U of A. I'm comparing us to other DO schools. You can spin our failure to provide local rotation priviledges as innovative when in fact it is a limitation. If a student wants to rotate in a preceptor based model, that is fine but then AZCOM should have opportunities for those who wanted to stay local. That my friend, is not innovation but a limitation. If you attend AZCOM then you are aware that many of our students are married and have families. Unfortunately not everyone can afford to just leave their families for 6 months out of the year because we couldn't rotate here locally during our third year. This is not innovative; this is not offerring our students a choice. The last I checked AZCOM is not offering students a tuition discount for failing to provide these local opportunities. Where is that money going?

Also, you are stereotyping U of A students and AZCOM students. If you think all AZCOM students are going into medicine to serve humanity simply because they are DO students, then you are highly misguided. Likewise, it's not fair to depict all U of A students as self serving because they are M.D. 's And what do you qualify as us producing the "best of the best." That is a very subjective and vague statement. Why are you even comparing us to the University of Arizona? That is not even the issue. Both schools are excellent schools.

Don't try to change the subject. I'm glad AZCOM is finally making some effort to acquire hospital priviledges so our students can rotate locally. Thus far, it doesn't exist and it has not for years. That has nothing to do with AZCOM versus U of A and everything to do with AZCOM prioritizing and doing more to serve its students which it has failed to do in regards to offering opportunities to rotate locally.

 

[DFrancyk]

That's not what you said. This is what you wrote: "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

This is the type of misleading propaganda that you are spreading to recruit students to AZCOM. If you would clarified your stance and specified that this is what you heard in a meeting as opposed to it being fact, students like myself wouldn't call you on your vague information.




And it also makes you look like a jerk when you choose to pass your opinion on as fact This isn't about opinion; this is about facts. Luke was arguing with me about something any 3rd or 4th year student could verify in relation to class rank being set after MS II. That was a fact and not an opinon yet Luke was arguing as if i was merely stating my opinion.

Both statements are true. Arizona has assured Cole that they will stop funding AND Cole stated that they will start paying rotation sites next year. I have NOT posted misleading propaganda. Misleading propaganda would be when YOU state your experience with this school as fact. My experience has not been one hundred percent positive either, but its my OWN FAULT. Life is what you make of it, medical school is too.

 

[novacek88]

I am really not sure who you are, but I'm sure that not every student in the third and fourth year classes would agree with all you have said about rotations. As for the class rank argument I really have no idea... I have heard that 3rd and 4th year does count, and also that it does not. But I really just have to say WHO CARES!!! Just be a good student, and make yourself into a good doctor... I don't plan on ranking super high, but I do plan on knowing my stuff when I get out there and kicking ass and taking names when it comes to patient care.

Oh, and your negativity about our school really really sucks. Which in turn tells me that... well, you suck... which means that god help your patients, because I wouldn't want a doc working me up who is as negative as you. Sorry man. Hope you can work it all out.

Oh "I suck" Okay that shows where you mentality lies. It sounds like you are yet another misinformed second year student who is waving her poms poms. Hooray for you but leave the facts and spread of accurate information to those of us who have graduated or are about to graduate. However, feel free to continue to be the fluffer that you are.

 

[novacek88]

Both statements are true. Arizona has assured Cole that they will stop funding AND Cole stated that they will start paying rotation sites next year. I have NOT posted misleading propaganda. Misleading propaganda would be when YOU state your experience with this school as fact. My experience has not been one hundred percent positive either, but its my OWN FAULT. Life is what you make of it, medical school is too.

You have no idea if Arizona assured Dean Cole of that. You are just reporting what Dean Cole told you. So you need to state that instead of stating that it's a fact that by July 1st our students will have the right to rotate locally during third year. Next time, let everyone know that you are basing your information on what Dean cole told you instead of stating something as a fact. Thust far it isn't a fact. You are only passing on what the Dean has told you. And I'm sorry but heresay is not a fact. Until I see it in writing with a definitive date, then it's a fact. Until then, it's a lot of encouraging news and nothing more.

 

[Iris4Jen]

Oh "I suck" Okay that shows where you mentality lies. It sounds like you are yet another misinformed second year student who is waving her poms poms. Hooray for you but leave the facts and spread of accurate information to those of us who have graduated or are about to graduate. However, feel free to continue to be the fluffer that you are.

Hehehehe, you are totally entertaining. Call me a fluffer all you want, but I'm a happy fluffer, I'm a good student, and I'm going to make a damn good doctor. ... So, if I'm a fluffer... what does that make you? Smasher? Flattener of hopes and dreams? I know where my mentality lies, do you? Just because you have been there does not mean you know the facts either... you could be just as misinformed as you think I am. Your reasoning has holes. Good thing you are not going to be a lawyer... although... this might have been a better choice for you. Hehe, sorry, I kill me!

 

[Iris4Jen]

You have no idea if Arizona assured Dean Cole of that. You are just reporting what Dean Cole told you. So you need to state that instead of stating that it's a fact that by July 1st our students will have the right to rotate locally during third year. Next time, let everyone know that you are basing your information on what Dean cole told you instead of stating something as a fact. Thust far it isn't a fact. You are only passing on what the Dean has told you. And I'm sorry but heresay is not a fact. Until I see it in writing with a definitive date, then it's a fact. Until then, it's a lot of encouraging news and nothing more.

Its funny how you call Dean Cole a damn liar without so many words. I happen to have a huge amount of respect for this man who has achieved so much in his life. I would call you a damn liar before him you piddly little med student. What the hell have you ever done that would make me believe in what you say? Fool. YER KILLIN ME!

 

[novacek88]

Hehehehe, you are totally entertaining. Atleast you admit that Dean Cole isn't a liar, and that what he said at the dean's meeting was true. Call me a fluffer all you want, but I'm a happy fluffer, I'm a good student, and I'm going to make a damn good doctor. ... So, if I'm a fluffer... what does that make you? Smasher? Flattener of hopes and dreams? I know where my mentality lies, do you? Just because you have been there does not mean you know the facts either... you could be just as misinformed as you think I am. Your reasoning has holes. Good thing you are not going to be a lawyer... although... this might have been a better choice for you. Hehe, sorry, I kill me!

It makes me a senior who is about to graduate and can offer accurate advice that is based on experience as opposed to some fluffy propaganda.

Your attitude doesn't bother but your facts do. The problem I have with students like you, Luke and DFran is that you have an agenda for whatever reason and you continue to offer loose information and your opinon as fact. I have never seen students so inclined to spin the truth as you three have. I don't know what your motive is but my interest is offering information that I was not presented with when I chose to attend AZCOM.

When students like Boomer and myself offer advice based on our experience, you shoot us down as if we don't know what we are talking about.

Thus far, you have already been proven wrong on the class rank issue. And if it wasn't for me, DFran would continue to state that as of July 1st, our third years can rotate locally. When in fact, that was nothing more than the Dean's words being passed on. It's hasn't been formally implemented or written down anywhere.

If someone wants to argue facts with me, I'm game but I'm not going to resort to petty name calling by individuals such as yourself.

 

[novacek88]

Its funny how you call Dean Cole a damn liar without so many words. I happen to have a huge amount of respect for this man who has achieved so much in his life. I would call you a damn liar before him you piddly little med student. What the hell have you ever done that would make me believe in what you say? Fool. YER KILLIN ME!

My issue is not with Dean Cole. My issue is with the second year student who hears something in a meeting and decides to pass it on as fact on an anonymous messageboard. I'm not calling Dean Cole a liar. Arizona may have promised him that but you can't rely on the state of AZ to honor any set date like July 1st unless it's in writing or has been well publicized which it hasn't. Furthermore, we were not there so we have no idea what the state explicityly told Dean Cole. I don't think Deal Cole is lying but I'm not certain Dean Cole would comfortable telling students that we will for certain have rotating priviledges as of July 1st. That just sounds like an eager second year willing to pass loose information as fact on an anonymous messageboard. That's called being careless.

 

[Iris4Jen]

It makes me a senior who is about to graduate and can offer accurate advice that is based on experience as opposed to some fluffy propaganda.

Your attitude doesn't bother but your facts do. The problem I have with students like you, Luke and DFran is that you have an agenda for whatever reason and you continue to offer loose information and your opinon as fact.

When students like Boomer and myself offer advice based on our experience, you shoot us down as if we don't know what we are talking about.

Thus far, you have already been proven wrong on the class rank issue. And if it wasn't for me, DFran would continue to state that as of July 1st, our third years can rotate locally. When in fact, that was nothing more than the Dean's words being passed on. It's hasn't been formally implemented or written down anywhere.

If someone wants to argue facts with me, I'm game but I'm not going to resort to petty name calling by individuals such as yourself.

When exactly have I been proven wrong on the class rank issue? Not until the deans office announces this to me will I be proven wrong. I'm sorry that you had such a crappy experience your 3rd and 4th years, but you really should not offer advice such as "reconsidering" to our new students. We should be offering positivity, confidence, and good will for our new students. Ofcourse our school has bugs to work out, but the truth of the matter is, that this "limitation" is not as much of a limitation as you believe it is. I do have a family, and baby, and I can't leave out of state. I am not afraid of doing my rotations here, hospital based or otherwise. I know that when it comes down to it, my board scores and my willingness to work hard, with a good attitude are what will get my a great residency. So step off with your bad attitude and "facts." And who started the name calling?? Fluffer I believe.

 

[Iris4Jen]

My issue is not with Dean Cole. My issue is with the second year student who hears something in a meeting and decides to pass it on as fact on an anonymous messageboard. I'm not calling Dean Cole a liar. Arizona may have promised him that but you can't rely on the state of AZ to honor any set date like July 1st unless it's in writing or has been well publicized which it hasn't. Furthermore, we were not there so we have no idea what the state explicityly told Dean Cole. I don't think Deal Cole is lying but I'm not certain Dean Cole would comfortable telling students that we will for certain have rotating priviledges as of July 1st. That just sounds like an eager second year willing to pass loose information as fact on an anonymous messageboard. That's called being careless.

Actually, Dean Cole did say July 1st. I concur that he would not be comfortable stating this if it were not true. What I call careless is responding to the post about this information without calling the dean's office and inquiring before shooting it down in front of the incoming freshman. All we need to do is to undermine their confidence in our dean. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[novacek88]

When exactly have I been proven wrong on the class rank issue? Not until the deans office announces this to me will I be proven wrong. I'm sorry that you had such a crappy experience your 3rd and 4th years, but you really should not offer advice such as "reconsidering" to our new students. We should be offering positivity, confidence, and good will for our new students. Ofcourse our school has bugs to work out, but the truth of the matter is, that this "limitation" is not as much of a limitation as you believe it is. I do have a family, and baby, and I can't leave out of state. I am not afraid of doing my rotations here, hospital based or otherwise. I know that when it comes down to it, my board scores and my willingness to work hard, with a good attitude are what will get my a great residency. So step off with your bad attitude and "facts." And who started the name calling?? Fluffer I believe.

No, that is not our job. Our job is not to sell our school. Our position is to provide the facts so students can make an informed decision. And if we provide our opinion, we should state that. And I have already provided a URL to the student handbook that outlines what determined our class rank. if you are going to argue with that then you will just continue to look foolish. You don't get it; you already lost that argument. Give it up. I'm about to graduate, I think I would know what constitutes our class rank. Are you kidding me? Some people like yourself simply can't admit when they are wrong. No, the name calling started with "you suck"

 

[novacek88]

Actually, Dean Cole did say July 1st. I concur that he would not be comfortable stating this if it were not true. What I call careless is responding to the post about this information without calling the dean's office and inquiring before shooting it down in front of the incoming freshman. All we need to do is to undermine their confidence in our dean. Wouldn't you agree?

How would I even know to call the Dean's office because until now, Dfran didn't inform us that he recieved his information from a meeting he held with the Dean.

Instead, he just wrote that as of July 1st, AZCOM would be allowed to rotate locally. That is called being careless. He didn't even let us know where he got his information. There is a reason he didn't state that he heard this information in a meeting because it would undermine his point.

It's not my position to guess his sources. If he is going to make a blanket statement, he needs to provide a URL or some source as to where he got his information.

 

[Iris4Jen]

No, that is not our job. Our job is not to sell our school. Our position is to provide the facts so students can make an informed decision. And if we provide our opinion, we should state that. And I have already provided a URL to the student handbook that outlines what determined our class rank. if you are going to argue with that then you will just continue to look foolish. You don't get it; you already lost that argument. Give it up. I'm about to graduate, I think I would know what constitutes our class rank. Are you kidding me? Some people like yourself simply can't admit when they are wrong.

Ok, so what you are telling me is that you think that our school is so up to date that it re-writes the hand book every time it changes a policy? Haven't you learned not to believe everything you read on the internet yet? I mean, please... isn't it possible that they have changed this policy and have yet to review the hand book? Also, what is true for your class is not necessarily true for my class. The rules change almost every year. This is what is cool about a newer school... it changes as it works out the bugs. I'm sorry you think you are so right, and maybe you are... but i'm not going to take YOUR word for it... I'll just simply call the dean's office tomorrow and inquire. Thank you for your "opinions" and "facts". Oh, and our "Jobs" are not to sell our school, true, but who made it our job to provide these so called "facts" and a ton of almost purely negative "opinions" to our newest students? Why can't we just be incouraging? Why can't we just tell them how it was for us without telling them to reconsider? I know you think its your job to save others from your bad experience, but really, its not. Who asked you? I certainly didn't, and anyone who did is probably seriously misguided. Things are so different for every student and every class that asking advice from "older" "wiser" students is totally worthless. Things are changing for the better all the time at our school, so why worry all of our new students? I mean, this thread is in the AZCOM 2009 section right? So, these people reading this are already students. So, I guess, being older brothers and sisters, we should be helpful, right? Not pessimistic... which is no help once you've paid your deposit, right?

 

[DFrancyk]

How would I even know to call the Dean's office because until now, Dfran didn't inform us that he recieved his information from a meeting he held with the Dean.

Instead, he just wrote that as of July 1st, AZCOM would be allowed to rotate locally. That is called being careless. He didn't even let us know where he got his information. There is a reason he didn't state that he heard this information in a meeting because it would undermine his point.

It's not my position to guess his sources. If he is going to make a blanket statement, he needs to provide a URL or some source as to where he got his information.

I was asked right after I posted if this is what was stated at the Dean's meeting and I replied "Yup." What hidden agenda do you think I have? This is so ridiculous... Look you are splitting hairs to try and defend yourself? Is your ego so fragile? Seriously, let it go... move on... And all you new incoming students who are reading this ridiculous conversation, just do as Iris said and call the Dean's Office and find out for yourself.

I regret ever getting involved in this conversation.... UGH

 

[novacek88]

Ok, so what you are telling me is that you think that our school is so up to date that it re-writes the hand book every time it changes a policy? Haven't you learned not to believe everything you read on the internet yet? I mean, please... isn't it possible that they have changed this policy and have yet to review the hand book? Also, what is true for your class is not necessarily true for my class. The rules change almost every year. This is what is cool about a newer school... it changes as it works out the bugs. I'm sorry you think you are so right, and maybe you are... but i'm not going to take YOUR word for it... I'll just simply call the dean's office tomorrow and inquire. Thank you for your "opinions" and "facts". Oh, and our "Jobs" are not to sell our school, true, but who made it our job to provide these so called "facts" and a ton of almost purely negative "opinions" to our newest students? Why can't we just be incouraging? Why can't we just tell them how it was for us without telling them to reconsider? I know you think its your job to save others from your bad experience, but really, its not. Who asked you? I certainly didn't, and anyone who did is probably seriously misguided. Things are so different for every student and every class that asking advice from "older" "wiser" students is totally worthless. Things are changing for the better all the time at our school, so why worry all of our new students? I mean, this thread is in the AZCOM 2009 section right? So, these people reading this are already students. So, I guess, being older brothers and sisters, we should be helpful, right? Not pessimistic... which is no help once you've paid your deposit, right?

Okay so the handbook is now wrong? I quoted the current handbook that is on-line. So they changed our entire clinical curriculum beginning with your class? That is called reaching for straws and I think you know this. You must be one of those types that enjoys arguing for the sake of argument.

You can provide your positive opinions as long as you don't try to pass them on as facts which is what some of you have done. I have provided some negative opinions but I have never misrepresented the facts/

I don't have a problem with someone saying: "I was in a meeting with the Dean. And he stated that as of July 1st 2005, AZCOM students would have the right to rotate in Phoenix during third year rotations. This is what was passed on to me by the Dean."

That is a lot different than telling some eager first years "Arizona will stop funding hospitals who do not accept AZCOM students for rotations beginning July 1st."

 

[novacek88]

I was asked right after I posted if this is what was stated at the Dean's meeting and I replied "Yup." What hidden agenda do you think I have? This is so ridiculous... Look you are splitting hairs to try and defend yourself? Is your ego so fragile? Seriously, let it go... move on... And all you new incoming students who are reading this ridiculous conversation, just do as Iris said and call the Dean's Office and find out for yourself.

I regret ever getting involved in this conversation.... UGH

Why didn't you post that the first time you wrote it? Is it really that difficult to provide sources to verify your statement. Anyone who reads this can tell that you obviously were trying to make your case sound stronger than it was which is why you conveniently failed to mention you heard that in a Dean's meeting. It wasn't policy and none of my classmates nor the third years I'm close with is even heard of anything close to this. And I would be interested to know what the Dean precisely told you.

And as far as I'm concerned, that is far from being a fact. Until it's implemented, I will have a difficult time believing that.

And you were not supposed to respond remember so if you are beyond this conversation please don't respond to this and be on your way.

 

[hylacinerea]

Novacek, obviously you're pretty upset about the rotations at azcom. Just out of curiosity, are you are expressing a general dissatisfaction regarding the rotations or do you feel it actually hurt you as a candidate and if so in the end did you still get what you wanted?

 

[Inquiringmind24]

This has been pretty interesting to read. As an incoming student, I think it's important to see both sides of the story. I just can't believe how heated the discussion has become. My goal is to come to AZCOM with an open mind and try to get the best medical education possible. If that means putting a lot of work and planning in on my end then fine. I'm not the type who feels the need to be "spoon fed" everything anyway. As first year students, do we get a second year "buddy" as I've heard many other med schools arrange? And during the first year will there be many opportunities to talk with 3rd and 4th year's? Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hylacinerea]

This has been pretty interesting to read. As an incoming student, I think it's important to see both sides of the story. I just can't believe how heated the discussion has become. My goal is to come to AZCOM with an open mind and try to get the best medical education possible. If that means putting a lot of work and planning in on my end then fine. I'm not the type who feels the need to be "spoon fed" everything anyway. As first year students, do we get a second year "buddy" as I've heard many other med schools arrange? And during the first year will there be many opportunities to talk with 3rd and 4th year's? Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.

Inquiringmind24, my "big brother" just emailed me today for the first time, so hopefully you'll hear from yours soon.

 

[novacek88]

Novacek, obviously you're pretty upset about the rotations at azcom. Just out of curiosity, are you are expressing a general dissatisfaction regarding the rotations or do you feel it actually hurt you as a candidate and if so in the end did you still get what you wanted?

I got what I wanted but third year was a royal pain in the arse. Yes, you can achieve your goals at AZCOM but beware that third year will suck. I spend a lot of money during third year and did almost all the paperwork myself. The "spoonfeeding" diatribe is a rather weak response. You guys are going to pay 45K during third year; the least they could do is their job. You are paying for this. This is not something extra that I'm asking for. But yes, I achieved my goals. Did I have to do more work than most of my colleagues at others schools? Absolutely! I didn't match at my first choice and I think our clinical setup had a lot to do with that because it was really difficult setting yourself apart during clinicals with the way our program is established.

I sound like the minority opinion here but I would say most of my class agrees with me. They are not on SDN for whatever reason. Most of the people on SDN giving advice about AZCOM are first and second year students. It's rare that you will have 4th years lend their time. It just bothers me when students try to spin our limitations during third year as some type of advantage. It's not an advantage because most students like myself had notchoice but to relocate for third year. When you start next year, I would ask that you speak directly with third and fourth year students instead of the Raw Raw group on SDN.

 

[hylacinerea]

For all the upperclassmen on this thread: would you guys keep us here on the 09 thread posted with any new rotation info? -especially if you can send us a url that has something definitive... Thanks

 

[hylacinerea]

I got what I wanted but third year was a royal pain in the arse. Yes, you can achieve your goals at AZCOM but beware that third year will suck. I spend a lot of money during third year and did almost all the paperwork myself. The "spoonfeeding" diatribe is a rather weak response. You guys are going to pay 45K during third year; the least they could do is their job. You are paying for this. This is not something extra that I'm asking for. But yes, I achieved my goals. Did I have to do more work than most of my colleagues at others schools? Absolutely! I didn't match at my first choice and I think our clinical setup had a lot to do with that because it was really difficult setting yourself apart during clinicals with the way our program is established.

I sound like the minority opinion here but I would say most of my class agrees with me. They are not on SDN for whatever reason. Most of the people on SDN giving advice about AZCOM are first and second year students. It's rare that you will have 4th years lend their time. It just bothers me when students try to spin our limitations during third year as some type of advantage. It's not an advantage because most students like myself had notchoice but to relocate for third year. When you start next year, I would ask that you speak directly with third and fourth year students instead of the Raw Raw group on SDN.

Thanks for the response. So do you have any advice on how to maximize your potential for the best possible experience assuming that the rotation situation will be in two years similar to what it is now? (Of course, I'm hoping that it will change)

 

[novacek88]

Thanks for the response. So do you have any advice on how to maximize your potential for the best possible experience assuming that the rotation situation will be in two years similar to what it is now? (Of course, I'm hoping that it will change)

Yes I do have some advice. Start the process early. By the end of first year, try to have an idea of what you want to specialize in and what city/state you want to do residency in. Then go to the FREIDA website

http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/srch/

Freida will list every specialty and every program/hospital that offers that residency. For example, if you want to internal medicine in Chicago, you go to the FREIDA site and look up IM programs in Illinois. It will list all the Chicago IM programs. Then you should call programs early and ask if they accept visiting students during core rotations such as internal medicine. Find out who the contact is there etc. Also, you can speak to 3rd and 4th year students about good programs.

It does depend on your field. If I aspired to do family practice and didn't particularly care about doing residency at a strong program, I may have just stuck with the preceptor model and did all my rotations in Phoenix. But I was sure i wanted to attend a reputable program which is why I had to my IM rotations out of state to get great LOR's.

 

[novacek88]

Just to show my sincerity and that I'm not the only one with complaints regarding our clinical structure, here are 3 different accounts from 3 different former AZCOm graduates.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2319667#post2319667

Bikerboy

If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like ..........(AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead. I'm just laying down some truths that I wish I had understood before I enrolled in AZCOM. Would I have made the same choice to come here? Maybe. But I bought full into the whole preceptor based rotation pitch, only to find out it isnt all roses. The grass is always greener elsewhere, and MS's love to bitch about everything, but listen:

Over the last few months of interviewing for residencies here in Phoenix, one question I've gotten from almost every PD in town is a list of where I've rotated. The reason, one PD explained, is that for a student from a program with teaching hospital rotations, he knows that student had a fairly standard and predictable clinical experience. For AZCOM students, however, he asks for a list because he realizes that the quality of our preceptor rotations are all over the board, and he has no way of judging how well clinically trained we are from just our transcript. So he looks for a candidate that can run down a list of reputable clinical training experiences from major teaching hospitals, places where he knows what sort of clinical experience the typical student receives.

OK, that's it from me. I dont want to turn this into a "yada yada yada" session, but just wanted to relate my personal, opinionated, varnished, jaded, whatever, whatever experience. PM me if you have further questions.

I'm out.

This is another report from a recent graduate. He is doing anesthesiology in Chicago right now.

Ventdependent

If AZCOM had more teaching hospital based rotations 3rd year do you think I would have gone through all the trouble to rotate out? Rhetorical. I had other reasons for comming to the midwest (family issues) but I still felt compeled otherwise to rotate out.

Rural experiences are supposed to be great but not everyone gets those pics or wants to live in podunk arizona for months on end. Point is work hard 3rd year to land as much teaching hospital rotations you can and 4th year you can rotate at as many massive teaching institutions as you'd like. I don't know of any other DO school that lets you do so many out rotations.

4th year its a positive for landing letters and some really unique experience. 3rd year its a pain in the rear. Thats all she wrote.

Lo and behold, here is another thread from an AZCOM graduate who did his rotations here. His handle is IdahoDO There are not excepts from giddy second year students. These are graduates who had gone through the process and know what they are talking about.

IdahoDO

I may have a different take on this topic. I'm from Idaho and wanted to practice there (and most likely will.) With AZCOM, I was able to do the first 6 months of my 3rd year in Phoenix and my last six months and the rest of my 4th year away.

That allowed me to move my wife to Idaho. I must admit that it sucked during my 3rd year because in order to get any sort of experience clinically, I felt I needed at least 4 months in house. So, I had to move away from my wife for three months in a row to go to the midwest where we are not yet shut out of rotations. To make a long story short, I'll tell you that I've lived in Sacramento, Detroit, Toledo, Fresno, and Portland trying to get some good experience. I have only done 3 rotations total at osteopathic institutions so if that's important to you, don't go to AZCOM. I've also had to be away from my wife for 7 of the last 12 months so for that reason you may not want to go to AZCOM. However, I've also done rotations at OHSU, UCDavis, UCSFresno, and UW (Boise) and feel as though I am as clinically sound as any MD student I've come into contact with. For me, if I would have known what I do now, I still would have done it simply for the fact that my wife and I are able to live in the area we love (and hunt, ski, fish, etc..)

Hope that helps

 

[Iris4Jen]

For all the upperclassmen on this thread: would you guys keep us here on the 09 thread posted with any new rotation info? -especially if you can send us a url that has something definitive... Thanks

Hylacinerea,
I applaud your enthusiasm. I hope you get a big bro or sis next year who is also as enthusiastic so that you can get the info that you need. I also hope that you take everything that is said here with a grain of salt. By the time you get to rotations, things will be different. If you want to maximize your time in each rotation then go in with gusto, set yourself apart by going above and beyond. Our system does not hold you back in this way, atleast. You will certainly make an impression in a rotation, and set yourself apart if you are just an awesome person who knows his/her stuff. That said, I humbly offer this one piece of unsolisited advice... worry about getting through your first year, anatomy, biochem, physio, and having fun in some clubs... don't worry about rotations just yet. Don't put the cart before the horse. Cross that bridge when you come to it... and all that jazz. If you spend all your time, or extra time worrying... then you are wasting your time... worry is a waste. You can't do anything to truly plan your rotations as a first year anyway... just breathe. Please. Keep some sanity about you, and enjoy med school, it is such an amazing experience and we are lucky to be partaking. See you next year.
J

 

[novacek88]

Hylacinerea,
I applaud your enthusiasm. I hope you get a big bro or sis next year who is also as enthusiastic so that you can get the info that you need. I also hope that you take everything that is said here with a grain of salt. By the time you get to rotations, things will be different. If you want to maximize your time in each rotation then go in with gusto, set yourself apart by going above and beyond. Our system does not hold you back in this way, atleast. You will certainly make an impression in a rotation, and set yourself apart if you are just an awesome person who knows his/her stuff. That said, I humbly offer this one piece of unsolisited advice... worry about getting through your first year, anatomy, biochem, physio, and having fun in some clubs... don't worry about rotations just yet. Don't put the cart before the horse. Cross that bridge when you come to it... and all that jazz. If you spend all your time, or extra time worrying... then you are wasting your time... worry is a waste. You can't do anything to truly plan your rotations as a first year anyway... just breathe. Please. Keep some sanity about you, and enjoy med school, it is such an amazing experience and we are lucky to be partaking. See you next year.
J

Likewise, I would encourage you to finish 3rd and 4th year before forming an opinion in regards to our clinical structure. And I would also take anything the AZCOM administration says with a grain of salt. Do you really think we were not told many of the same things you were told? Prior to starting rotations, i was told AZCOM was considering taking legal action against the U of A and that would cause more opportunities for us by the time we were third years. Don't rely on anything unless it's in stone. I used to be as naive as you were two years ago. It's like the X-Files, Trust No One!

 

[Iris4Jen]

Just to show my sincerity and that I'm not the only one with complaints regarding our clinical structure, here are 3 different accounts from 3 different former AZCOm graduates.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2319667#post2319667

Bikerboy

If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like ..........(AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead. I'm just laying down some truths that I wish I had understood before I enrolled in AZCOM. Would I have made the same choice to come here? Maybe. But I bought full into the whole preceptor based rotation pitch, only to find out it isnt all roses. The grass is always greener elsewhere, and MS's love to bitch about everything, but listen:

Over the last few months of interviewing for residencies here in Phoenix, one question I've gotten from almost every PD in town is a list of where I've rotated. The reason, one PD explained, is that for a student from a program with teaching hospital rotations, he knows that student had a fairly standard and predictable clinical experience. For AZCOM students, however, he asks for a list because he realizes that the quality of our preceptor rotations are all over the board, and he has no way of judging how well clinically trained we are from just our transcript. So he looks for a candidate that can run down a list of reputable clinical training experiences from major teaching hospitals, places where he knows what sort of clinical experience the typical student receives.

OK, that's it from me. I dont want to turn this into a "yada yada yada" session, but just wanted to relate my personal, opinionated, varnished, jaded, whatever, whatever experience. PM me if you have further questions.

I'm out.

This is another report from a recent graduate. He is doing anesthesiology in Chicago right now.

Ventdependent

If AZCOM had more teaching hospital based rotations 3rd year do you think I would have gone through all the trouble to rotate out? Rhetorical. I had other reasons for comming to the midwest (family issues) but I still felt compeled otherwise to rotate out.

Rural experiences are supposed to be great but not everyone gets those pics or wants to live in podunk arizona for months on end. Point is work hard 3rd year to land as much teaching hospital rotations you can and 4th year you can rotate at as many massive teaching institutions as you'd like. I don't know of any other DO school that lets you do so many out rotations.

4th year its a positive for landing letters and some really unique experience. 3rd year its a pain in the rear. Thats all she wrote.

Lo and behold, here is another thread from an AZCOM graduate who did his rotations here. His handle is IdahoDO There are not excepts from giddy second year students. These are graduates who had gone through the process and know what they are talking about.

IdahoDO

I may have a different take on this topic. I'm from Idaho and wanted to practice there (and most likely will.) With AZCOM, I was able to do the first 6 months of my 3rd year in Phoenix and my last six months and the rest of my 4th year away.

That allowed me to move my wife to Idaho. I must admit that it sucked during my 3rd year because in order to get any sort of experience clinically, I felt I needed at least 4 months in house. So, I had to move away from my wife for three months in a row to go to the midwest where we are not yet shut out of rotations. To make a long story short, I'll tell you that I've lived in Sacramento, Detroit, Toledo, Fresno, and Portland trying to get some good experience. I have only done 3 rotations total at osteopathic institutions so if that's important to you, don't go to AZCOM. I've also had to be away from my wife for 7 of the last 12 months so for that reason you may not want to go to AZCOM. However, I've also done rotations at OHSU, UCDavis, UCSFresno, and UW (Boise) and feel as though I am as clinically sound as any MD student I've come into contact with. For me, if I would have known what I do now, I still would have done it simply for the fact that my wife and I are able to live in the area we love (and hunt, ski, fish, etc..)

Hope that helps

Novacek88,
There is no doubt in my mind (and I'm sure in other's minds as well) that your clinical experience was sub-par. There are always complainers in the crowd. Why do you feel SO compelled to share with the frosh the downside of our system so early in their education, and knowing that this system could very well be changed by the time they get to this point? Just curious.

 

[Iris4Jen]

Novacek88,
There is no doubt in my mind (and I'm sure in other's minds as well) that your clinical experience was sub-par. There are always complainers in the crowd. Why do you feel SO compelled to share with the frosh the downside of our system so early in their education, and knowing that this system could very well be changed by the time they get to this point? Just curious.

Never mind, I see your above response. I'm sorry you did not get your first pick of residencies... however, I have no doubt there was a reason that God/the Universe, whatever you call it, put you where it did. I'm sure you will do great where ever you end up. I'm sure that the current first years and new ones will work hard to make sure that AZ holds up its end of the deal so that we can get rotations at hosptials for future classes. My husband is going into third year here and he has to spend two months away from me and our baby this summer... He's lucky, he can do that, I can't with a new baby... I don't however have to go on rotations until next year, so hopefully I will be able to stay in Phx for all my rotations. I have high hopes that this will become a reality. Anyway, congrats on graduation, and I wish you all the best.
J

 

[novacek88]

Never mind, I see your above response. I'm sorry you did not get your first pick of residencies... however, I have no doubt there was a reason that God/the Universe, whatever you call it, put you where it did. I'm sure you will do great where ever you end up. I'm sure that the current first years and new ones will work hard to make sure that AZ holds up its end of the deal so that we can get rotations at hosptials for future classes. My husband is going into third year here and he has to spend two months away from me and our baby this summer... He's lucky, he can do that, I can't with a new baby... I don't however have to go on rotations until next year, so hopefully I will be able to stay in Phx for all my rotations. I have high hopes that this will become a reality. Anyway, congrats on graduation, and I wish you all the best.
J

Thank you for civil response and I apologize for my previous messages and tone. I think we all mean well.

I'm not saying things can't change but trust me, I was in SGA , I know how things work at our school and change does not occur overnight. I'm not saying the Dean is wrong but until it happens, I don't feel comfortable telling new students that is our policy. They have said things in the past and it has never materialized. If it happens great and I wil be more than happy to support my school with a fat donation but I refuse to do so until our school makes changes that benefit students like yourself who can't afford to spend months away from their families during third year because they hopping al over the U.S.

My apologies once again and I will delete that previous post. Good Luck to you

 

[larke28]

Speaking of SGA, how is that and other membership organizations taken into account during match? I was looking at list of AZCOM organizations and there are so many i'd like to join. How much time do current students have for time commitments to clubs? Any recommendations of particular clubs for incoming students who are unsure of the branch of medicine they're interested in? (personally, i'm leaning toward emergency med)

 

[crys20]

Not to sound like a complete idiot...But if you go away from Phoenix for a 4 or 6 week block for a certain rotation 3rd year, where do you live??

From all of this, I gather that 4th year runs more smoothly, and you can do your work in Phoenix hospitals?

I gather that when interviewing for residencies more would like to see that you did traditional hospital-based rotations rather than the preceptor model that AZCOM offers? And if this is true, the thing to do would be to arrange these rotations on your own 3rd year, perform well and get your LOR?

If you're just calling programs on your own as one little student trying to get a 4 or 6 week or whatever rotation in whatever...I'm confused...Would you be calling programs that are going to have other students rotating as well? Like say you call up MCO in Toledo and want to do your 6 week surg rotation...Are you going to be doing the standard rotation setup amongst the MCO students? So I guess my point is you'd be rotating in an established sort of 3rd year student program?

I'm sorry for all these silly questions...Just trying to educate myself more about AZCOM as a prospective student..

 

[Tonloc08]

Tonloc08,

What year did you graduate from UNC? I've heard Greeley is a nice town and is much cheaper to live in than Boulder. When do you plan to move down to AZ?

-Matt

I graduated from UNC this december. Greeley is a fairly nice town because it's located very close to ft. collins and denver, but you can still stay away from the big city crowds. It's definately cheeper than boulder, but it's not cheep. The cost of living is similar to that of glendale. I'm currently living in AZ, in Chino Valley, helping my dad at his ranch and coaching track. I'm very ready to get down to the phoenix area where there are more people because it gets pretty boring up here.

 

[Aloha Kid]

Hi guys,

I see my classmate Novacek has been doing some business again. I would like to provide a counter argument. I respect Novacek's opnions and think it's awesome that you always hear both sides of the argument. I tend to be a bit more optimistic and am tremendously grateful for the opportunity I have had at AZCOM.

First of all, AZCOM is expensive. I think if you can deal with this, like most of you probably already have, then that's half the battle. Logistically, I am a fourth year who matched into my first choice Emergency medicine program. The school put me about 160K in the hole (everything included, even family expenses). When I graduate from EM the average job is 180+ minimum with salaries ranging into 200+ easily. I am not opposed to living like a student and paying back everything in a few years. I am aiming for a 2-3 year payback.

Second, this rotation issue has been discussed to the brink of death. I have enjoyed my third and fourth year due to the amount of flexibility I have had. I have not found problems rotating through hospitals. In fact, even in third year, I rotated through many community hospitals and found the learning to be equal is many ways, more advantageous in many ways, but also very different in many ways. The end results for me were encouraging. I hardly studied for step 2 comlex but still managed to put out an 80% board score. I have recently finshed up 5 months rotating in Hawaii, have enjoyed sunshine & academic learning. The school will eventually set up more hospital based rotations based on the demand. Logistically, however I agree with Novacek, this takes time. Although I personally am quite content with the rotation system, many of my class mates like Novacek are not. I do not belive their demands are unreasonable. I support them in their fight for more hospital based rotations not becasue I have found my own education to be sub-par, but becasue this would only add and benefit everyone.

The upcoming battle for all you new AZCOMers is to first ROCK the boards step 1. Then, be proactive in selecting your 3rd and 4th year rotations and learning to the best of you abilities. It will also be imperative for you to realize that the cost of attending AZCOM is not cheap, but once you can accept that, the less bitter the situation will be as you approach graduation. Lastly, you have a right to voice your opinions, thus helping to push the administration to meet the demands of students. I believe our class has done a good job in pushing the administration to make cahnges. This will need to continue, without getting bitter and callous.

Good luck to all you new AZCOMers. I have sat on the admission committee and am thoroughly impressed with many of you. Hold fast to your decisions to attend AZCOM. After four years, I am happy with where I am.

 

[Inquiringmind24]

Hey Aloha,

Thanks for the encouraging feedback. Based on the EM matches on the 2005 list, I'd say you did pretty darn well. I just have one last general question about rotations. What proportion of hospitals provide housing? Did you find it difficult to find short term housing if the hospital didn't provide it? Also, I don't currently own a car. Would any current students suggest that I get one this summer before starting? Here in Boulder, CO where I live I don't need a car since the public transportation is really good and there's a large network of bike paths. How is the public trans in the Phoenix area? I really don't want to buy a car, but I will if it's really necessary. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Matt

 

[Aloha Kid]

Hey Aloha,

Thanks for the encouraging feedback. Based on the EM matches on the 2005 list, I'd say you did pretty darn well. I just have one last general question about rotations. What proportion of hospitals provide housing? Did you find it difficult to find short term housing if the hospital didn't provide it? Also, I don't currently own a car. Would any current students suggest that I get one this summer before starting? Here in Boulder, CO where I live I don't need a car since the public transportation is really good and there's a large network of bike paths. How is the public trans in the Phoenix area? I really don't want to buy a car, but I will if it's really necessary. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Matt

It seems most out of state allopathic hospitals don't provide housing. Some, however, do! Free meals too! If there is no housing, then students usually end up staying with family or rent nearby. With that said, most osteopathic program hospitals DO provide housing and meals/discounts.

For your 1st and 2nd year, you could technically do without a car, but for the average person it would be SUPER tough. You will definately need a car for 3rd and 4th year. It is insanely unreasonable to be catching the bus to your surgery rotation at 5 am and trying to catch the bus back home at 10 pm. NO CAN DO. I would suggest getting a car.

 

[medtraveler]

Aloha Kid,

Thanks for the solid insight and encouragement. Just curious to how early we should start lining up third year rotations. I'll be in Phoenix for the summer and I was thinking if I spent some time shadowing or volunteering at competitive rotation sights here in the valley I might be able to make some connections and maybe prop open a few doors when the time comes to apply for rotations. I suppose what I'm asking is how early is too early. Any thoughts? Congratulations with the recent match.

 

[durak]

Anyone looking for housing? I've got a *very* nice condo 1 mile from campus (67th and 101) in a gated community on a golf course that I'm looking to rent out. I just bought another place, so I need someone to take over my lease. It's 2br/2ba, 1100 sq feet, has a one-car garage, and overlooks a nice lake. Very nice part of town. PM me if you are interested or know of anyone looking for a place.

See you all in the fall.