[B]Advocates of DO Degree change to MD-O or O-MD[/B]

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Advocates of DO Degree change to MD-O or O-MD

Visit the following link and post your comments on the potential of a degree change. Please be mindful of your comments and make your arguments cogent, cohesive, and most importantly cordial

http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=17#c

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Yeah, and then eventually the "O" gets dropped!:p BTW, why was this person banned?
 
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Why not simply "M.D.,D.O." - Doctor of Medicine, Diplomate of Osteopathy? It would contain historical features and reflect the current level of education.
 
The problem with MDO or OMD or DOM is that those degree designations are already used for "Doctors of Oriental Medicine." I don't think that clarifies the issue:

http://www.alternativemedicinecollege.com/distance_learning/levels/doctor-oriental-medicine.html

Patients need to take a little responsibility in understanding the credentials of their healthcare providers. There are DDS and DMD in dentistry. There are PsyD's and PhD's in psychology. There are PharmD's and RPh's in pharmacy.

Changing the degree with not fix the underlying issues in osteopathic medicine.
 
Yeah, great idea! Let's "clarify" things by changing the degree name. I can see it now:

patient: "What kind of doctor are you?"

doc: "I'm an MDO."

patient: "Is that like an MD?"

doc: "Yes, it's like an MD that learns manipulation."

patient: "Oh! Like a DO!"

doc: "Well, an MDO is like a DO, yes."

patient: "Why didn't you just go to a DO school?"

doc: *groan*
 
Yeah, great idea! Let's "clarify" things by changing the degree name. I can see it now:

patient: "What kind of doctor are you?"

doc: "I'm an MDO."

patient: "Is that like an MD?"

doc: "Yes, it's like an MD that learns manipulation."

patient: "Oh! Like a DO!"

doc: "Well, an MDO is like a DO, yes."

patient: "Why didn't you just go to a DO school?"

doc: *groan*
:laugh: I have a compromise. We can change ours to one of these if allopathic physicians will "clarify" their degree by changing to something like AMD, or MDA, or DAM, or something. Just so that we will be consistent and both have 3 letter degrees. :D
 
:laugh: I have a compromise. We can change ours to one of these if allopathic physicians will "clarify" their degree by changing to something like AMD, or MDA, or DAM, or something. Just so that we will be consistent and both have 3 letter degrees. :D
Or just allow the osteopathic grads to do the same thing that MBBS grads from the UK and Ireland are allowed to do- use the 'MD' honorative if they so desire since they are regarded as equivalent degrees afterall. That would hopefully shut everyone up: the osteopaths who want to maintain their individual identities and those who wish to distance themselves.
 
Or just allow the osteopathic grads to do the same thing that MBBS grads from the UK and Ireland are allowed to do- use the 'MD' honorative if they so desire since they are regarded as equivalent degrees afterall. That would hopefully shut everyone up: the osteopaths who want to maintain their individual identities and those who wish to distance themselves.

Not that I care, but this seems reasonable.

I never understood why a foreign grad could come over here with a bachelor's degree and do a ACGME residency and get reciprocated with an MD, yet DO's with the same training could not.
 
DKM has the idea. It would entail DOs pursuing the 5th pathway system.
To garner the title MD, grads of foreign medical schools must pass all three steps of the USMLE and complete a PGY-1 in an ACGME residency with a sponsoring medical school.
I'm game.
 
Or just allow the osteopathic grads to do the same thing that MBBS grads from the UK and Ireland are allowed to do- use the 'MD' honorative if they so desire since they are regarded as equivalent degrees afterall. That would hopefully shut everyone up: the osteopaths who want to maintain their individual identities and those who wish to distance themselves.

As much as I hate to admit, this makes good sense.

Actually, this is a great idea. I can see how this will greatly increase not only the competitiveness of DO schools but also the caliber of applicants.
 
As much as I hate to admit, this makes good sense.

Actually, this is a great idea. I can see how this will greatly increase not only the competitiveness of DO schools but also the caliber of applicants.

I don't know about that, but at least it will provide an "out" for all the people who hate being a DO, but "settle for it" because that is where they got in. That way the only people who are DO's are those of us who want to be.
 
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As an orthopedic surgeon, when I get asked what is a D.O.
I just say Doctor of Orthopedics and move on.
 
As an orthopedic surgeon, when I get asked what is a D.O.
I just say Doctor of Orthopedics and move on.

Ha! That's funny because in one of my rotations with an ENT DO, one of his patients had a bad hip. When the patient was being examined by the ENT doc, he said "Hey doc, could you also fix my hip?". The ENT doc looked puzzled, and then the patient added "You're a DO, right? Doesn't that mean that you're also an orthopedic surgeon?" I almost burst out laughing. The ENT doc thought that was pretty amusing.
 
As an orthopedic surgeon, when I get asked what is a D.O.
I just say Doctor of Orthopedics and move on.

:thumbup: I had a coworker who was all anti DO and was applying MD only. He wants to be an opthalmologist and said that he didn't think people would be confident in his abilities as a DO. I told him he could say it meant Doctor of Ophthalmology. :D
 
There are PharmD's and RPh's in pharmacy.

Nice post.

All PharmDs that practice pharmacy are registered pharmacists (RPh). You will usually see a pharmacist refer to themselves as an RPh d/t lack of a PharmD. Now all pharmacy schools confer PharmDs. The Bachelor option is no longer available.
 
DKM has the idea. It would entail DOs pursuing the 5th pathway system.
To garner the title MD, grads of foreign medical schools must pass all three steps of the USMLE and complete a PGY-1 in an ACGME residency with a sponsoring medical school.
I'm game.

How does that fix any of the underlying problems in osteopathic medicine??
 
Guys, you should really read some of the posts on that blog. They make excellent points.

The title "DO" is simply incorrect. I think we can all agree that DOs learn everything that MDs do plus a little extra, right? So why is "medicine" not in our title? We study it painstakingly every single day! Why do we get credited only for the "osteopathic" portion? Our schools are abbreviated "COM"s and our degree says "doctor of osteopathic medicine". However, our title only suggests "Doctor of Osteopathy" (which in the UK and much of Europe, is not even considered a full physician). We do not call ourselves OS-(I-IVs), we call ourselves OMS-(I-IVs). By changing the letter to MD-O or O-MD, we do a service to ourselves by getting credit for what we deserve as well as making the degree match the actual letters. We do a service to our patients by eliminating confusion or doubt about our capabilities, while still retaining our distinction.
 
The problem with MDO or OMD or DOM is that those degree designations are already used for "Doctors of Oriental Medicine." I don't think that clarifies the issue:

http://www.alternativemedicinecollege.com/distance_learning/levels/doctor-oriental-medicine.html

Patients need to take a little responsibility in understanding the credentials of their healthcare providers. There are DDS and DMD in dentistry. There are PsyD's and PhD's in psychology. There are PharmD's and RPh's in pharmacy.

Changing the degree with not fix the underlying issues in osteopathic medicine.

You are correct about OMD and DOM, but MDO cannot be used for "Doctor of Oriental Medicine" (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MDO)
About clarifying the issue, I think more DOs are confused for "Doctors of Optometry" than MDOs would be confused for "Doctor of Oriental Medicine" (a term I've never even heard of until this post).

Yes, patients should educate themselves. But with common themes such as "WebMD', 'House MD', 'ColdMD' and 'Hero MD' being thrown around, plus the fact that most phone books have a separate section for "physicians" and "osteopathic physicians", it is hard to expect a patient to know that DOs are equivalent. Most only find out by accident, after they notice that the physician they've had for years does not have "MD" on his or her coat.

It may not fix underlying problems, but it certainly does not hurt in my opinion.
 
You are correct about OMD and DOM, but MDO cannot be used for "Doctor of Oriental Medicine" (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MDO)
About clarifying the issue, I think more DOs are confused for "Doctors of Optometry" than MDOs would be confused for "Doctor of Oriental Medicine" (a term I've never even heard of until this post).

Yes, patients should educate themselves. But with common themes such as "WebMD', 'House MD', 'ColdMD' and 'Hero MD' being thrown around, plus the fact that most phone books have a separate section for "physicians" and "osteopathic physicians", it is hard to expect a patient to know that DOs are equivalent. Most only find out by accident, after they notice that the physician they've had for years does not have "MD" on his or her coat.

It may not fix underlying problems, but it certainly does not hurt in my opinion.

DO = Doctor of Osteopathic MEDICINE the last time I checked. Why do so many of you osteopathic students want and MUST have the MD in their title. Geez. Personally I find it hilarious that people would even consider that. Also MBBS = MD because they all stem from the same philosophy of ALLOPATHIC medicine. DO has a totally different philosophy regardless if any DOs actually care. I think changing the degree would only raise more questions and many others in the healthcare community will see it as a move due to lack of self-confidence.
DOs are competent physicians in all aspects of medicine. There are many other issues to worry about than a petty 2 letters.
 
How does that fix any of the underlying problems in osteopathic medicine??
It doesn't because that would entail silencing the vocal minority, who also happen to hold all the cards. But I do think that osteopathic graduates who complete an allopathic residency, all the steps of the USMLE, and are boarded by an allopathic organization should be allowed to display "MD" after their name. As JKHAMLIN said (and despite us butting heads on most things, I do think he tends to make valid points with decent regularity):
but at least it will provide an "out" for all the people who hate being a DO, but "settle for it" because that is where they got in. That way the only people who are DO's are those of us who want to be.

However I do believe this would rapidly lead to the number of persons advertising themselves as DO's to decline drastically. I can't be sure, but that is what I suspect would happen.
 
DO = Doctor of Osteopathic MEDICINE the last time I checked. Why do so many of you osteopathic students want and MUST have the MD in their title. Geez. Personally I find it hilarious that people would even consider that. Also MBBS = MD because they all stem from the same philosophy of ALLOPATHIC medicine. DO has a totally different philosophy regardless if any DOs actually care. I think changing the degree would only raise more questions and many others in the healthcare community will see it as a move due to lack of self-confidence.
DOs are competent physicians in all aspects of medicine. There are many other issues to worry about than a petty 2 letters.

You are correct except for two points stemming from what is in bold in the above quote:

1. MBBS = bachelor's degree; MD = doctoral degree.
2. Osteopathic medicine also stems from allopathic medicine. DO's are trained in all of allopathic medicine and all of Osteopathy.
 
It doesn't because that would entail silencing the vocal minority, who also happen to hold all the cards. But I do think that osteopathic graduates who complete an allopathic residency, all the steps of the USMLE, and are boarded by an allopathic organization should be allowed to display "MD" after their name. As JKHAMLIN said (and despite us butting heads on most things, I do think he tends to make valid points with decent regularity):


However I do believe this would rapidly lead to the number of persons advertising themselves as DO's to decline drastically. I can't be sure, but that is what I suspect would happen.

The problem with this that I can see is that it has been tried before in California, with disastrous results.
 
You are correct except for two points stemming from what is in bold in the above quote:

1. MBBS = bachelor's degree; MD = doctoral degree.
2. Osteopathic medicine also stems from allopathic medicine. DO's are trained in all of allopathic medicine and all of Osteopathy.

No kidding osteopathic stems from allopathic. And no kidding MBBS is a bachelors degree (however, some MBBS are in school for 8 years as well). I'm just saying why they allow the MBBS = MD because traditionally for the past hundreds of years they are both ENTRANCE allopathic medical degrees in different parts of the world. DO is the ENTRANCE osteopathic medical degree, so they are not considered the same thing (philosophy/tradition wise).
 
The problem with this that I can see is that it has been tried before in California, with disastrous results.

That was more like a HOSTILE takeover via the MDs (evil AMA). Haha...but if this occurs it will probably have bad consequences.
 
Guys, you should really read some of the posts on that blog. They make excellent points.

The title "DO" is simply incorrect. I think we can all agree that DOs learn everything that MDs do plus a little extra, right? So why is "medicine" not in our title? We study it painstakingly every single day! Why do we get credited only for the "osteopathic" portion? Our schools are abbreviated "COM"s and our degree says "doctor of osteopathic medicine". However, our title only suggests "Doctor of Osteopathy" (which in the UK and much of Europe, is not even considered a full physician). We do not call ourselves OS-(I-IVs), we call ourselves OMS-(I-IVs). By changing the letter to MD-O or O-MD, we do a service to ourselves by getting credit for what we deserve as well as making the degree match the actual letters. We do a service to our patients by eliminating confusion or doubt about our capabilities, while still retaining our distinction.

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DO = Doctor of Osteopathic MEDICINE the last time I checked. Why do so many of you osteopathic students want and MUST have the MD in their title. Geez. Personally I find it hilarious that people would even consider that. Also MBBS = MD because they all stem from the same philosophy of ALLOPATHIC medicine. DO has a totally different philosophy regardless if any DOs actually care. I think changing the degree would only raise more questions and many others in the healthcare community will see it as a move due to lack of self-confidence.

Because we study medicine as rigorously as any MD, but it is not reflected by the letters "DO". This simply doesn't make sense. Acronyms should reflect all the major words they represent, and I think "medicine" is a pretty big part of the title. Even doctors of oriental medicine have the "M" in their title. How would changing the degree raise more questions, if most of the general public doesn't even know what DOs are to begin with? If anything, it will alleviate any fear or doubts a patient has about a DO's competency. And who cares if the healthcare community will "see it" is a move due to lack of self-confidence? No matter what people think, the change would be a move due to the fact that the previous title doesn't adequately reflect what osteopathic physicians really are. Are you against the correction and clarification of terms?

DOs do not have a totally different philosophy from MDs. Maybe this was the case 100 years ago, but over the years, MDs have actually adopted the DO philosophy. No MD today would argue that structure doesn't affect function, or that one disease should be looked at rather than the whole body. In fact, I think this unwitting adoption by MDs of the DO philosophy has led to the problems DOs currently have of distinguishing themselves. All we really have left is OMM and and emphasis on primary care. But this shred of distinction provides the sustenance needed for the existence of the AOA, which is why they would not support the title change (despite the overwhelming majority of students who believe it to be necessary). But no matter. Regardless of the AOA's lack of support, it would be up to individual COMs to discuss this with state officials in order to change and adopt the updated and correct title of MDO (or any other title that is agreed upon).
 
Because we study medicine as rigorously as any MD, but it is not reflected by the letters "DO". This simply doesn't make sense. Acronyms should reflect all the major words they represent, and I think "medicine" is a pretty big part of the title. Even doctors of oriental medicine have the "M" in their title. How would changing the degree raise more questions, if most of the general public doesn't even know what DOs are to begin with? If anything, it will alleviate any fear or doubts a patient has about a DO's competency. And who cares if the healthcare community will "see it" is a move due to lack of self-confidence? No matter what people think, the change would be a move due to the fact that the previous title doesn't adequately reflect what osteopathic physicians really are. Are you against the correction and clarification of terms?

DOs do not have a totally different philosophy from MDs. Maybe this was the case 100 years ago, but over the years, MDs have actually adopted the DO philosophy. No MD today would argue that structure doesn't affect function, or that one disease should be looked at rather than the whole body. In fact, I think this unwitting adoption by MDs of the DO philosophy has led to the problems DOs currently have of distinguishing themselves. All we really have left is OMM and and emphasis on primary care. But this shred of distinction provides the sustenance needed for the existence of the AOA, which is why they would not support the title change (despite the overwhelming majority of students who believe it to be necessary). But no matter. Regardless of the AOA's lack of support, it would be up to individual COMs to discuss this with state officials in order to change and adopt the updated and correct title of MDO (or any other title that is agreed upon).

Haha. The way I see it there is no clarification needed. If you go into a hospital, very little people ask you about that "DO" on your badge. Life as a physician is so fast and health-care so streamlined these days that only the most ******ed ppl will ask a physician to clarify their "DO". I'm guessing it's less than 5% of total patients. Honestly speaking, DO looks better than MDO anyways. Like I said, that change in degree shows that you don't care about tradition and that you care about what a minority of patients think. In turn, this will probably (definitely to me and prolly other health-care professionals) make us wonder why you guys had to change your degree that has been around for >100 years (ie.lack of self-confidence). I guess you don't care about what other physicians think of you but what that one patient thinks.
So while we're at it why don't we change DSc to PhD (same research doctorate degree) all DMD to DDS, all MBChB to MBBS, etc.
Oh and all surgeons should get MD-S since they don't want to be confused with other doctors. :laugh: :laugh:
 
The best thing to do is something that someone posted before.

M.D., D.O. = Doctor of Medicine, Diplomate of Osteopathy
 
It doesn't because that would entail silencing the vocal minority, who also happen to hold all the cards. But I do think that osteopathic graduates who complete an allopathic residency, all the steps of the USMLE, and are boarded by an allopathic organization should be allowed to display "MD" after their name. As JKHAMLIN said (and despite us butting heads on most things, I do think he tends to make valid points with decent regularity):


However I do believe this would rapidly lead to the number of persons advertising themselves as DO's to decline drastically. I can't be sure, but that is what I suspect would happen.


I just don't follow your logic. When I don't like certain rules or policies I don't begrudge the stakeholders who made them. I become a stakeholder myself, organize, get "skin in the game," and try to reform the rules and policies that I don't like.

The D.O. is an academic degree. You can't retroactively change the kind of degree a person earns! If you were an English major in college and graduated with a B.A. degree, but also took all your pre-med classes, calculus, and even advanced math courses your B.A. degree doesn't morph into a B.S. degree even though you have the same "core requirements" that science majors do.

Similarly, someone who holds a D.O. degree doesn't become a "M.D." because they did an ACGME-approved residency and took the USMLE. Think about it ---you can't CHANGE an academic degree once it has been awarded.

The difference between "osteopathy" and "allopathy" is the sort of the same as the difference between "homologous" and "analogous" structures in evolutionary biology. Two homologous structures share a high sequence identity or similarity, supporting the hypothesis that they share a common ancestor. Two structures in biology are said to be analogous if they perform the same or similar function by a similar mechanism but not necessarily the same genes. For example, the wings of insects, the wings of birds, and the wings of bats are all analogous. They all let creatures take flight.

The MBBS (British) and MD (USA) are homologous degrees in so far as that they descend from a common branch of western medicine---"allopathy." People don't associated "allopathy" with a distinct intellectual tradition any longer because it is dead---it's like Latin. So is homeopathy. But, you can't change the past! And, just as we still use Latin words in every day speech and words with Latin roots; so too do all physicians (MD and DO degree holders) evoke "allopathic" concepts in their care of patients. Many MD's also evoke "osteopathic" concepts in the care of patients, but I'm not about to change their degrees!

Thus, the DO (USA) and MD (USA) are analogous degrees --- both enable you to perform the same function --- the unrestricted practice of medicine, but they are historically, educationally, and philosophically distinct. There is ample historical evidence to support this. They descend from parallel, but separate branches of western medicine---osteopathy is actually an off-shoot of allopathy. You can try to argue whether a bat's wing is "better" than a hummingbird's wing, but I think it won't it will be a very persuasive argument too many people. They each have their own advantages and disadvantages. Ditto for the MD and DO degrees.

What you seem to REALLY want to do is raise the visability and recognition of the field. There are more productive ways to do this than spinning your wheels about trying to change the degree!
 
I just don't follow your logic. When I don't like certain rules or policies I don't begrudge the stakeholders who made them. I become a stakeholder myself, organize, get "skin in the game," and try to reform the rules and policies that I don't like.
Basically it was just my way of pointing out that the AOA seems to respond to dissent in much the same way that any totalitarian organization responds- by marginalizing the dissenters, even when they are in the majority and correct.

Similarly, someone who holds a D.O. degree doesn't become a "M.D." because they did an ACGME-approved residency and took the USMLE. Think about it ---you can't CHANGE an academic degree once it has been awarded.

Well, I still hold it would be NO different than allowing someone with an MBBS to use an MD degree.

M.D., D.O. = Doctor of Medicine, Diplomate of Osteopathy

Ideally yes.....that would basically not change anything. In fact, I think osteopathic schools would recruit better applicants if they issued BOTH degrees (MD and DO) upon graduation. This would not be TOO much of a stretch given that the only difference between the two is the OMM and other osteopathic courses. Then if someone chose to not consider themselves an osteopath, they could simply drop the DO acronym from their name and advertising.
 
What you seem to REALLY want to do is raise the visability and recognition of the field. There are more productive ways to do this than spinning your wheels about trying to change the degree!

Actually I don't care about visibility or recognition of osteopathy, because medicine is already a high visibility field and my opinion of the differences between the two camps is quite well known. Honestly I just want to see people shut the hell up about how one is better than the other and the only way I see that happening on a widespread basis is to do away with the second degree and just make everyone MD's (regardless of the presence or absence of osteopathic training, which most don't use to begin with, so I don't see what the problem is).
 
Actually I don't care about visibility or recognition of osteopathy, because medicine is already a high visibility field and my opinion of the differences between the two camps is quite well known. Honestly I just want to see people shut the hell up about how one is better than the other and the only way I see that happening on a widespread basis is to do away with the second degree and just make everyone MD's (regardless of the presence or absence of osteopathic training, which most don't use to begin with, so I don't see what the problem is).

The problem with this is that you are a DO (osteopath) and not a MD (allopath). You can't just change degrees, even if both are full physicians!!! That's even crazier than changing the degree to DOM, MDO, OMD, etc. :laugh:
 
The problem with this is that you are a DO (osteopath) and not a MD (allopath). You can't just change degrees, even if both are full physicians!!! That's even crazier than changing the degree to DOM, MDO, OMD, etc. :laugh:

DropKick is neither a D.O. or an M.D. He will be applying for medical school (both allo and osteo) very shortly. IIRC.
 
Actually I don't care about visibility or recognition of osteopathy, because medicine is already a high visibility field and my opinion of the differences between the two camps is quite well known. Honestly I just want to see people shut the hell up about how one is better than the other and the only way I see that happening on a widespread basis is to do away with the second degree and just make everyone MD's (regardless of the presence or absence of osteopathic training, which most don't use to begin with, so I don't see what the problem is).
Frighteningly I am tending to agree with most of your assertions here, but you make a couple of invalid assumptions to support them:

1. "even when they are in the majority and correct"
2. "osteopathic training, which most don't use to begin with"
 
osteopathic training, which most don't use to begin with

The last survey I saw said that only a minority of DO's use OMM.

"even when they are in the majority and correct"

I wasn't speaking specifically about this topic, but rather about how they seem to react to any dissent regardless of the subject matter at hand.
 
The problem with this is that you are a DO (osteopath) and not a MD (allopath). You can't just change degrees, even if both are full physicians!!! That's even crazier than changing the degree to DOM, MDO, OMD, etc. :laugh:

Allopath and Osteopath are both doctors. We should worry about better issue than degree designation.
 
The problem with this is that you are a DO (osteopath) and not a MD (allopath). You can't just change degrees, even if both are full physicians!!! That's even crazier than changing the degree to DOM, MDO, OMD, etc. :laugh:

Um... there is no such thing as an "allopath". :laugh: There are, however, osteopaths, osteopathic physicians, and allopathic physicians. The latter two are considered physicians because they obtain degrees in medicine (this is the key word here). Why are MDs not DAs? Obviously because they came first, and had no need to highlight the "allopathic" portion of their professional title. In fact, this term is only used to differentiate MDs from DOs. But the problem here is that an "M" should be in the title of an osteopathic physician, since like I said before, we are currently OMSs. And you're right, you can't just change degrees, but state medical and legal organizations can change the title of the degree (actually, the title of the degree has already changed to "doctor of osteopathic medicine". The only thing that hasn't changed yet is the acronym.

In regards to your other post, this is not about "how we look to others", which I really don't care about. It's about correctness and giving credit where credit is due, which I do care about greatly. Tradition will still be held, as I would never want the "O" in DO to be removed or marginalized.
 
drusso, excellent analogy and I do agree that DOs and MDs are like analogous structures. But no matter what creature the wing belongs to, you still call it a "wing", correct? You don't call one a "bird wing" and the other a "bat floobydooby". The one thing that signifies their function (wing for flight, in this case) should be included in the name, right? So do you see why I feel there should be an "M" in "DO"?
 
The D.O. is an academic degree. You can't retroactively change the kind of degree a person earns!

Think about it ---you can't CHANGE an academic degree once it has been awarded.


This is not true. The first degree for lawyers for many years was the LLB - Bachelor of Laws. Most law schools finally began changing the degree to J.D. in the late 60's and early 70's. Many schools that changed their degrees offered and issued the new J.D. degree and diploma to past graduates holding a LLB degree.


What you seem to REALLY want to do is raise the visability and recognition of the field.[/QUOTE]

Other than the brief mention on the Sopranos, how did this turn out?
 
drusso, excellent analogy and I do agree that DOs and MDs are like analogous structures. But no matter what creature the wing belongs to, you still call it a "wing", correct? You don't call one a "bird wing" and the other a "bat floobydooby". The one thing that signifies their function (wing for flight, in this case) should be included in the name, right? So do you see why I feel there should be an "M" in "DO"?

Wow. Is that "M" really that important to you? You can have it. I'm done.
 
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