Back to basics WW again

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Abnerrs said:
I think it's weird. With the post restriction on either I was thinking he had special permission to be absent the first day or he has a post restriction of his own
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For the record, I did not have permission. And Dy did send me a "hey you, post or get modkilled" warning. Just didn't have time. Trying to catch up. Almost there.

I'm to the part where cdo got lynched and lyra died overnight. Sucky. 🙁 But maybe telling.
 
nyanko said:
How times have changed....
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They really don't know you.

Nyanko plays quiet until Nyanko isn't quiet. Then Nyanko plays mean. And gets quiet again.

It's a beautiful thing sometimes. Except for the fact that I always end up voting to lynch her because she doesn't give enough away one way or the other in her posts.
 
awesomenessity said:
Would there be two vigs in one game? That seems excessive to me but I haven't played enough WW to comment really :shrug:
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Sure. There definitely could be.

Two villager vig.

One villager, one scum vig (I'm not sure if that happens over at MU - I have only played a couple games there.).

In a game without much in the way of PRs? Sure, more assassins are viable.
 
serher said:
Well crap this is going well... 🙁

In addition to talking more about the Jilary discussion from yesterday, I would like to hear from the people that left their votes on cdo even after her role reveal (specifically ski, SAR, and confusing). What was your reasoning? Yes it's possible they weren't all around for lynch close, but still seems a bit suspicious to me.
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I wanna hear this too. I'm probably going to vote for someone who stayed on cdo since I'm sure wolves didn't want that ability to stay around.
 
SARdoghandler said:
AM (11 posts yesterday/3 today). While AM has been more active on the thread, almost every single post made has been a one liner with just about nothing useful added/no participation in discussion.
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FWIW, this is entirely normal for AM in the games I've played with her.
 
So now that I have completely taken over the thread ....

Here's my current breakdown. Like I think I said earlier, I go hard town, possible town, neutral, possible wolf, hard wolf. Hard does not equal definite. Just means suspicion is stronger. This early in the game, this list is highly inaccurate, usually, and someone hard town might be a wolf or the other way around. That's life. I might have all the wolves as hard village right now. *shrug*

People with an * has tallies in both wolf/village for me, but overall leaned to where they ended up.

STL was hard village outset of game, but flip-flopping back to cdoconn late in the vote was really, really sketch - especially for an experienced player like him. I'm pretty suspicious he saw a huge opportunity as a wolf and just decided to take it and talk his way out of it later. Probably voting to lynch him today, even though from a numbers standpoint it only landed him in my neutral column, and even though I initially had him hard town.

Normally, I'd try to give reasons for where I put people .. but this is just too big a game, and it would take me too long, and nobody wants me to quote all that crap. It all was based off of gut reads on D1/D2 posts except for moving SkiOtter to hard village off the Ski vs CDO posting.

Hard village:
Trilt
Skiotter*
Mmmdream
Kcoughli
Zensing
Snowshoe
Lyra

Likely village:
Pippy
DocS
Confusing
WZ

Neutral:
Nessie
Serher
DVMD*
SAR*
Ally*
Coopah*
STL**

Possible Wolf:
Finn
AM
Jilary

Hard Wolf:
Raf
Abners
 
LetItSnow said:
Context matters - and YOU of all people know that.

Dy has played far more games over at MU lately than here. And day vig over there is NOT uncommon. You should expect that to tilt her modding.

You seem to intentionally by constraining your thinking to "Dy running games here at SDN." That doesn't make sense. Last I checked, she was playing 4 games at once over there .... and she mods over there .... her interaction with that crowd has very much effected her play and her modding.
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I had heard she has played over there, but I didn't know to what extent. If she is playing super amounts over there, then that makes sense. But her founding and background in basics was SDN. I have only been on mafia universe to play the anonymous game over there and that's about it, so I don't know how active she is there. :shrug:
 
SummerTheLynx said:
I had heard she has played over there, but I didn't know to what extent. If she is playing super amounts over there, then that makes sense. But her founding and background in basics was SDN. I have only been on mafia universe to play the anonymous game over there and that's about it, so I don't know how active she is there. :shrug:
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That's fair and I buy that. I know you aren't looking over her shoulder, so I can see that you wouldn't know.

I still have to vote for you based on my D1 read.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
I am going to reiterate this. Do not pile for plurality. I am pretty sure @Jilary
Still hasn't checked in. I want her defending, not just seeing a pile and day ending.
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I literally posted 3 posts above yours. Yes, I've been busy today. I hadn't done laundry in 3 weeks just to busy schedule stuff, and I was making chili too (it's yummy). My first posts today was just quick from my phone. I wanted to wait until I got on my actual computer before making a longer post.

Anyway, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to defend when you haven't even told me why you are suspicious of me. Do you want me to go back and explain every post I've made since the game started? I went back and looked at the Pokémon wolf thread, in hopes that I could find whatever it was you are referring to, so I could defend myself properly and hopefully prove my villager status. The only thing I found where you criticized my play was about a post I made questioning if there had been a conversion on a no kill night, and it was also a night you made a fake claim that you were attacked. I wasn't even the first person to bring up the conversion topic on that thread, so I'm really not sure why it upset you other than it made your claim look sketchy. I know I said I didn't think conversions were in this game because I don't like conversions in a basics game, I said the same thing in the last basics game too, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think there were conversions, and I don't see that listed as an ability on the list WZ posted earlier.

My read on STL so far:

He's a misguided villager who has me confused with someone else, or hasn't played with me recently and realized my play style has evolved some. I've actually been quieter the past few games just because of school.

He's a wolf and fishing for people with roles, hoping that those with roles would investigate me last night (if they did, I wasn't notified of any of it) and some of them would speak up and suggest that I wasn't a good lynch target.

That said, I suspect roles are few and far between this game and anyone with a role should be VERY careful not to reveal it on thread, or even hint at it. I didn't notice the post Lyra supposedly made that made her seem like she had a role, but it appears other people did notice, and is likely why she got killed.
 
LetItSnow said:
So now that I have completely taken over the thread ....

Here's my current breakdown. Like I think I said earlier, I go hard town, possible town, neutral, possible wolf, hard wolf. Hard does not equal definite. Just means suspicion is stronger. This early in the game, this list is highly inaccurate, usually, and someone hard town might be a wolf or the other way around. That's life. I might have all the wolves as hard village right now. *shrug*

People with an * has tallies in both wolf/village for me, but overall leaned to where they ended up.

STL was hard village outset of game, but flip-flopping back to cdoconn late in the vote was really, really sketch - especially for an experienced player like him. I'm pretty suspicious he saw a huge opportunity as a wolf and just decided to take it and talk his way out of it later. Probably voting to lynch him today, even though from a numbers standpoint it only landed him in my neutral column, and even though I initially had him hard town.

Normally, I'd try to give reasons for where I put people .. but this is just too big a game, and it would take me too long, and nobody wants me to quote all that crap. It all was based off of gut reads on D1/D2 posts except for moving SkiOtter to hard village off the Ski vs CDO posting.

Hard village:
Trilt
Skiotter*
Mmmdream
Kcoughli
Zensing
Snowshoe
Lyra

Likely village:
Pippy
DocS
Confusing
WZ

Neutral:
Nessie
Serher
DVMD*
SAR*
Ally*
Coopah*
STL**

Possible Wolf:
Finn
AM
Jilary

Hard Wolf:
Raf
Abners
Click to expand...
Oh ffs. You are always suspicious of me.
 
LetItSnow said:
So now that I have completely taken over the thread ....

Here's my current breakdown. Like I think I said earlier, I go hard town, possible town, neutral, possible wolf, hard wolf. Hard does not equal definite. Just means suspicion is stronger. This early in the game, this list is highly inaccurate, usually, and someone hard town might be a wolf or the other way around. That's life. I might have all the wolves as hard village right now. *shrug*

People with an * has tallies in both wolf/village for me, but overall leaned to where they ended up.

STL was hard village outset of game, but flip-flopping back to cdoconn late in the vote was really, really sketch - especially for an experienced player like him. I'm pretty suspicious he saw a huge opportunity as a wolf and just decided to take it and talk his way out of it later. Probably voting to lynch him today, even though from a numbers standpoint it only landed him in my neutral column, and even though I initially had him hard town.

Normally, I'd try to give reasons for where I put people .. but this is just too big a game, and it would take me too long, and nobody wants me to quote all that crap. It all was based off of gut reads on D1/D2 posts except for moving SkiOtter to hard village off the Ski vs CDO posting.

Hard village:
Trilt
Skiotter*
Mmmdream
Kcoughli
Zensing
Snowshoe
Lyra

Likely village:
Pippy
DocS
Confusing
WZ

Neutral:
Nessie
Serher
DVMD*
SAR*
Ally*
Coopah*
STL**

Possible Wolf:
Finn
AM
Jilary

Hard Wolf:
Raf
Abners
Click to expand...
It's an interesting analysis, given that you had cdo as hard wolf in your posts above this one. I was conflicted, and went with the person who gave a weak defense as opposed to the person who wasn't on for a defense. But I get the vote.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
It's an interesting analysis, given that you had cdo as hard wolf in your posts above this one. I was conflicted, and went with the person who gave a weak defense as opposed to the person who wasn't on for a defense. But I get the vote.
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I had cdo as hard wolf but wasn't going to vote to lynch. To me that's key. I would have expected a veteran to say "let's hold off on this AT LEAST overnight"...
 
Jilary said:
Anyway, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to defend when you haven't even told me why you are suspicious of me.
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The very best way to defend yourself in a game like this is to start talking about who you think might be a wolf and why. That picture will develop over the game and, if you're a wolf, you're going to paint yourself into a corner. If you're a villager, your direction changes and growing assessment will make some sense.

And if you don't want to do that in a fairly 'basics' game, yer asking to be lynched.
 
LetItSnow said:
I had cdo as hard wolf but wasn't going to vote to lynch. To me that's key. I would have expected a veteran to say "let's hold off on this AT LEAST overnight"...
Click to expand...

(*Especially* given that you (@SummerTheLynx ) had Jilary down as wolf, but still voted cdoconn. I understand your initial reason about wanting to see where votes would go, but in light of the PR issue it really seems weird to switch back at last minute and drag enough n00bs with you to get cdoconn lynched.)
 
LetItSnow said:
(*Especially* given that you (@SummerTheLynx ) had Jilary down as wolf, but still voted cdoconn. I understand your initial reason about wanting to see where votes would go, but in light of the PR issue it really seems weird to switch back at last minute and drag enough n00bs with you to get cdoconn lynched.)
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Wait a second though. Why aren't you voting for a " hard wolf"? (And yes, I know that means I'm talking about me too)
 
Abnerrs said:
:laugh: That's totally fine.

But doesn't basically ANYTHING make someone lynchable?
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I'm not sure I understand?

I mean. My playing philosophy evolves, yanno?

Right now I look at it this way. Play analysis >> power-role info. PR info might cause a game swing with a clutch moment, but grinding it out by analyzing posts and relationships and what people are saying is the grunt work that wins WW. Fighter jets are flashy, but boots on the ground are what own land. Same in WW: Seers are flashy, but analysis wins.

So I have people I think are wolves because of what they say. And I have people I think are villagers because of what they say. And then I have people - like you, Nyanko, and some others - who don't tend to say much, or at least, don't say much that matters (like all the light-hearted fluff that you prefer). So you fall into a "dunno, so I'd better lynch them before it gets late game and comes down to a coin flip."

Plus, you did post something I thought was sketchy. I think I quoted it way back at the beginning of my posting flurry. 🙂

Don't get me wrong - I love the fluff, too. But you can't analyze someone over it.

So. Who are your top 5 wolves right now?
 
Abnerrs said:
Wait a second though. Why aren't you voting for a " hard wolf"? (And yes, I know that means I'm talking about me too)
Click to expand...

I already addressed that in my longer post. It's purely numbers that landed him neutral, and that's purely because I had multiple tallies for him in village prior to his weird flip-flopping on cdoconn.

I mean, had a seer come and said "Hey! So-n-so is a wolf" I'd vote for them, too, regardless of where they were in my list. The list is useful, but it isn't everything, and right now, I don't like what STL did late-vote yesterday.
 
1. I still have a "feeling" that SkiOtter is a villager.

My reason: Ski directly confronted cdo on D1, based on certain discrepancies throughout the day. However, it appears as if cdo and ski were pointing the finger at each other because cdo chose to be silent on this thread. Indeed, Ski outed cdo for snapchatting/conversing elsewhere (including conversing with Ski and posting on the drunk forum in SDN). So it is not surprising (e.g., to me) that cdo became suspicious of cdo's behavior and voted to lynch cdo. For this reason, I am inclined to believe that Ski was merely overzealous and pounced on cdo on D1 based on the above.

2. @Abnerrs, I reviewed your posts thus far. I have noticed that your posts seem to (solely) offer what might best be described as comic relief. I don't know you - maybe that's just the way you play in a WW game - or maybe it's not. It seems sketchy to me.

So far, I have not read any comments posted by you in which you have provided any reasons (explanations, justifications or "feels") about any other players. Nothing so far.

So for that reason, I am lynching you.

Lynch Abnerrs
 
And Abs, take a closer look at my wolf list.... note that most of them are newer-ish and the more experienced players are landing neutral or higher. It's early game. I don't put a lot of stock in this list yet. An experienced player like Trilt could totally be playing me right now, though I am pretty convinced she is village.
 
Doctor-S said:
1. I still have a "feeling" that SkiOtter is a villager.

My reason: Ski directly confronted cdo on D1, based on certain discrepancies throughout the day. However, it appears as if cdo and ski were pointing the finger at each other because cdo chose to be silent on this thread. Indeed, Ski outed cdo for snapchatting/conversing elsewhere (including conversing with Ski and posting on the drunk forum in SDN). So it is not surprising (e.g., to me) that cdo became suspicious of cdo's behavior and voted to lynch cdo. For this reason, I am inclined to believe that Ski was merely overzealous and pounced on cdo on D1 based on the above.

2. @Abnerrs, I reviewed your posts thus far. I have noticed that your posts seem to (solely) offer what might best be described as comic relief. I don't know you - maybe that's just the way you play in a WW game - or maybe it's not. It seems sketchy to me.

So far, I have not read any comments posted by you in which you have provided any reasons (explanations, justifications or "feels") about any other players. Nothing so far.

So for that reason, I am lynching you.

Lynch Abnerrs
Click to expand...
That's cool. It IS my MO. But I getcha
 
LetItSnow said:
And Abs, take a closer look at my wolf list.... note that most of them are newer-ish and the more experienced players are landing neutral or higher. It's early game. I don't put a lot of stock in this list yet. An experienced player like Trilt could totally be playing me right now, though I am pretty convinced she is village.
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Except me. I'm always a wolf to you. Even when I'm not. :laugh:
 
LetItSnow said:
(*Especially* given that you (@SummerTheLynx ) had Jilary down as wolf, but still voted cdoconn. I understand your initial reason about wanting to see where votes would go, but in light of the PR issue it really seems weird to switch back at last minute and drag enough n00bs with you to get cdoconn lynched.)
Click to expand...
Once again, completely get it, but you are assuming I play that reckless as a wolf (specifically in basics games). I only take myself down early in wolf games if it allows me to knock out the lone seer as well, by having them expose themself. Otherwise I play a long game with basics game as a wolf (I've won back to back games as mafia in speed WW by staying in the background, not doing anything crazy, and then flipping things around at the end on people that knew I was a wolf). A 2 shot vigilante, especially a noob, isn't worth me looking sketch. With the success vigilante's have had in most games, it would actually be beneficial to leave the vigilante alive and let them thin the herd, especially one who would not have great experience in deciding who to kill. But that's just me.

And as a final aside, it would be an abnormal game for me if I didn't have a vote for me by either you, DVMD, or Rojo by day 2. So just par for the course lol
 
LetItSnow said:
And Abs, take a closer look at my wolf list.... note that most of them are newer-ish and the more experienced players are landing neutral or higher. It's early game. I don't put a lot of stock in this list yet. An experienced player like Trilt could totally be playing me right now, though I am pretty convinced she is village.
Click to expand...
Interestingly, I am wondering why you even put noobs in the wolves column before day 4ish. Most of them stay in the "they are either being sketchy or a noob" area until then.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Once again, completely get it, but you are assuming I play that reckless as a wolf (specifically in basics games). I only take myself down early in wolf games if it allows me to knock out the lone seer as well, by having them expose themself. Otherwise I play a long game with basics game as a wolf (I've won back to back games as mafia in speed WW by staying in the background, not doing anything crazy, and then flipping things around at the end on people that knew I was a wolf). A 2 shot vigilante, especially a noob, isn't worth me looking sketch. With the success vigilante's have had in most games, it would actually be beneficial to leave the vigilante alive and let them thin the herd, especially one who would not have great experience in deciding who to kill. But that's just me.

And as a final aside, it would be an abnormal game for me if I didn't have a vote for me by either you, DVMD, or Rojo by day 2. So just par for the course lol
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Yeah. Your comments about recklessness above are compelling, and I admit, it's given me pause in my thinking even prior to you posting it. I don't see you being a huge risk-taker like that D1 in a basics game.

But I also think that you might be looking at the roster and saying "there's a whollllleeeeee lotta new players. I can talk my way through this one."

I dunno. Switching your vote like that was just very, very weird.

Not saying I'm not listening to you. I'm just having a hard time getting past the vote movement.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Interestingly, I am wondering why you even put noobs in the wolves column before day 4ish. Most of them stay in the "they are either being sketchy or a noob" area until then.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Noobs are really hard because you always are like "so was that wolfy or just n00b"?

I usually try to put more effort into my list. But I missed 10 pages of posts. I literally was speed-reading them and putting tallies for "wolf" vs "village". It was as simple as that. So I'm not putting tons of stock in my current line-up.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Once again, completely get it, but you are assuming I play that reckless as a wolf (specifically in basics games). I only take myself down early in wolf games if it allows me to knock out the lone seer as well, by having them expose themself. Otherwise I play a long game with basics game as a wolf (I've won back to back games as mafia in speed WW by staying in the background, not doing anything crazy, and then flipping things around at the end on people that knew I was a wolf).
Click to expand...

So, this is the only thing that's been keeping me from moving in LIS's direction and voting to lynch you. The flip flopping that I pointed out earlier was so blatant that I couldn't believe that an experienced player would do something so dumb as a wolf, so early in the game. Still made me take a hard look, however.
 
PippyPony said:
So, this is the only thing that's been keeping me from moving in LIS's direction and voting to lynch you. The flip flopping that I pointed out earlier was so blatant that I couldn't believe that an experienced player would do something so dumb as a wolf, so early in the game. Still made me take a hard look, however.
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Thing is - if you are convinced you could get away with it (and if I were a wolf in STL's shoes, I'm pretty damn sure I could get away with it) ... you might take the risk. Getting PRs off the table in a basics game is useful. (That said, I agree with him that I would have been less compelled to take the risk for a vig over a seer.)

I'm not saying "HA! STL IS A WOLF!" It's early game. I'm saying that move was really sketchy, it moves STL toward wolfdom for me, and so that's where I'm parking my vote. There is always uncertainty in a basics game.
 
LetItSnow said:
But I missed 10 pages of posts.
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That was confusing. I meant I missed 10 pages of posts before starting to read the game. As in - I was skimming and not really taking tons of time to think it through.

There was some interesting cdo vs trilt/mmm stuff in addition to the ski vs cdo stuff that I'd like to go back and re-read.
 
LetItSnow said:
I had cdo as hard wolf but wasn't going to vote to lynch. To me that's key. I would have expected a veteran to say "let's hold off on this AT LEAST overnight"...
Click to expand...

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have thought of this. However, I wasn't really around during the reveal and didn't get back on until after close. Having said that, when you first mentioned her role being easily verifiable, I can honestly say, I probably wouldn't have thought of that even if I were on. Yup clearly not thinking well. But yeah, you are right here.
 
Lots of new players and lots of older players who don't hesitate to lynch him at a pin drop. STL could be doing his exuberant wolf thing but I'm inclined to at least let him keep talking. If he does end up being scum it'll be fun to look through later.

I've had really nothing to tempt me to move from this lynch and I'm dogged to a fault, so may as well throw in:

Lynch raf

Followed up yesterday's wishy washy post with another today. Commit yo.
 
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