Bad Family Medicine Programs - BEWARE!

[ResidentDoctorDO]

I wanted to start this thread due to the lack of information out there for DO students looking for red flags of the many family medicine residencies out there. Some residencies may look OK on paper but may be a nightmare in reality - I couldn't find many resources or threads that address this specifically so here we are.. post at will.

It would be nice to stick to facts, but personal stories do help others decide if a certain residency is right for them. Be as respectful as possible and please avoid an all out bashing of a particular person within a program. This is meant to be a red flag indicator to candidates before they choose to spend their money for an interview and sign the next few years of their life to a certain residency - things like drop out rates, transfers, resident satisfaction, actual work hours/load, education, how residents are viewed in the hospital and community, etc..

I will start this off with a little known residency in Batavia, NY - looks like a great little unopposed rural type residency on the AOA website with great pay...however beware of this incredibly malignant program with little education, high work load, and very little respect for residents from those inside or outside of the program. I am either a current or past resident (due to nature of this residency, I would like to stay anonymous), and I wish that someone had warned me of what was in store. There has been nothing but disregard for residents in the program. The Program director takes a back seat and allows an inexperienced and bitter program coordinator to be the one to set rules and dish out punishment as she plays favorites. They practice medicine that is average at best and rarely evidence based. Residents are at each others throats due to so much drama and didactic sessions are a joke at best. There is a lot of turnover with many residents either getting fired or breaking their contract due to being fed up with the way things are ran. Others simply do not renew and find another place...any place (which is why they increased salary recently). At this residency, you will find out you work a 24hr call shift 3 days prior to the shift, and at the hospital with little support. Most residents are miserable here. So there, you've been warned.

Any other resident experiences? Med students - clinical rotations? Anyone open to post, just keep it professional.

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[deleted480308]

(Popcorn eating meme)

Place holder in case this gets juicy

 

[samac]

 

[NurWollen]

please someone respond this'll be good.

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[DO2015CA]

You copy and pasted into another thread because no one would respond to you. I’ve read this exact same post a couple months ago.

 

[NurWollen]

You copy and pasted into another thread because no one would respond to you. I’ve read this exact same post a couple months ago.

Oh man I was hoping for a nice discussion.

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[Giovanotto]

Lol, we can't even come together as a community to sympathize with this poor guy, and some of you here expect changes in how medical students/residents/physicians are treated.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Lol, we can't even come together as a community to sympathize with this poor guy, and some of you here expect changes in how medical students/residents/physicians are treated.

I feel the same, the guy is trying to help people out, and he gets a bunch of people making jokes. Of course, he probably should have posted this in the residency forum tho. I wouldn't expect too many replies here.

 

[NurWollen]

Lol, we can't even come together as a community to sympathize with this poor guy, and some of you here expect changes in how medical students/residents/physicians are treated.

I feel the same, the guy is trying to help people out, and he gets a bunch of people making jokes. Of course, he probably should have posted this in the residency forum tho. I wouldn't expect too many replies here.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be dismissive. I'd actually like more posts on this thread because honestly, OP's description of his/her program rings true. Not in comparison to my program (I'm fortunate enough to have landed in an incredibly supportive peds program) but because what they describe sounds like the kind of things that I imagine would make a crappy program crappy.)

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[Cranjis McBasketball]

How do people figure out which residencies are bad? Just word of mouth from other people?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

How do people figure out which residencies are bad? Just word of mouth from other people?

The same way you figure out if a DO school is bad. I.e. not what people say, but how they say it. Everyone involved has got so much skin in the game, you really can't expect a straight answer (its not cool, but I believe it to be true). The residencys view you the same way (i.e. over analyzing every detail to try and make a difference). I don't like it, but it is how it is in medicine. A profession that supposedly puts honesty as tantamount in importance really turns into dark shades of gray when you get into it

 

[DO2015CA]

The same way you figure out if a DO school is bad. I.e. not what people say, but how they say it. Everyone involved has got so much skin in the game, you really can't expect a straight answer (its not cool, but I believe it to be true). The residencys view you the same way (i.e. over analyzing every detail to try and make a difference). I don't like it, but it is how it is in medicine. A profession that supposedly puts honesty as tantamount in importance really turns into dark shades of gray when you get into it

lol i read that as 50 shades of grey

 

[Osminog]

OP, great post. Out of curiosity, what'd you do to get fired?

 

[ResidentDoctorDO]

I did copy and paste but it was bc i thought it was in the wrong place and really wanted the info to be helpful to others. Other than word of mouth what else do we have? The PD wont tell you its malignant and residents dont want their program to be viewed negatively..i will move it to the residency forum. Thanks.

Anyway i did not get fired. I did very well on all my rotations, and was asked to be chief by several..I refused to sign the contract and convinced the PD to support my leaving..she was actually nice about that. The unchecked coordinator however tried to make my life hell after she found out what i planned to leave..very sad and bitter woman.

 

[group_theory]

There is a website where you can post anonymous reviews of residencies,as well as read reviews of residencies ... Scutworks, which is a partner of SDN

Residency Program Reviews | Scutwork

Just like Yelp and Google Reviews, read every review with a grain of salts

 

[DocWinter]

There is a website where you can post anonymous reviews of residencies,as well as read reviews of residencies ... Scutworks, which is a partner of SDN

Residency Program Reviews | Scutwork

Just like Yelp and Google Reviews, read every review with a grain of salts

Thanks for pointing this out. Could be a great resource. It looks like it's not used much and many programs are not reviewed or have very old reviews. The community could really benefit if this was better promoted

 

[JustPlainBill]

I am so tempted right now -- but it's been 5 years and there's a new Department Chair that I am truly hoping will clean the place up --

You should really do an audition rotation at each program you are seriously considering -- like your top 3 -- they can hide the po'd residents for 2 days during an interview but if you do a month with your eyes open, you'll at least hear about where the bodies are buried....

 

[ResidentDoctorDO]

If you are talking about the new PD, she turns a blind eye to most things..doesnt want to solve any issues and lets her secretary/prog coordinator deal with things. Its caused so many people to leave.
The problem is that most of the new ones are from either scramble or off cycle- most never even see the place before signing on bc they dont want to wait and they see that the salary looks good. Most hopefuls who actually audition run for the hills afterward unless they have absolutely no other option.

 

[TattedMed]

I wanted to start this thread due to the lack of information out there for DO students looking for red flags of the many family medicine residencies out there. Some residencies may look OK on paper but may be a nightmare in reality - I couldn't find many resources or threads that address this specifically so here we are.. post at will.

It would be nice to stick to facts, but personal stories do help others decide if a certain residency is right for them. Be as respectful as possible and please avoid an all out bashing of a particular person within a program. This is meant to be a red flag indicator to candidates before they choose to spend their money for an interview and sign the next few years of their life to a certain residency - things like drop out rates, transfers, resident satisfaction, actual work hours/load, education, how residents are viewed in the hospital and community, etc..

I will start this off with a little known residency in Batavia, NY - looks like a great little unopposed rural type residency on the AOA website with great pay...however beware of this incredibly malignant program with little education, high work load, and very little respect for residents from those inside or outside of the program. I am either a current or past resident (due to nature of this residency, I would like to stay anonymous), and I wish that someone had warned me of what was in store. There has been nothing but disregard for residents in the program. The Program director takes a back seat and allows an inexperienced and bitter program coordinator to be the one to set rules and dish out punishment as she plays favorites. They practice medicine that is average at best and rarely evidence based. Residents are at each others throats due to so much drama and didactic sessions are a joke at best. There is a lot of turnover with many residents either getting fired or breaking their contract due to being fed up with the way things are ran. Others simply do not renew and find another place...any place (which is why they increased salary recently). At this residency, you will find out you work a 24hr call shift 3 days prior to the shift, and at the hospital with little support. Most residents are miserable here. So there, you've been warned.

Any other resident experiences? Med students - clinical rotations? Anyone open to post, just keep it professional.

Lol. Is this still SDN?

(Popcorn eating meme)


Place holder in case this gets juicy

Here, I got you.

lol i read that as 50 shades of grey

I mean, if we're being honest about what goes on in hospitals between those that work there....lol

 

[John1513]

Avoid brand-new programs, if you can. If not, make the most of it by fierce self teaching and setting up your rotations to the best of your ability.

 

[Gonio5]

It varies between specialties but in some specialties, the worse residency in the U.S. still provides sufficient training to be very proficient in the specialty. Board certification is not the be all, end all, but that provides additional documentation of qualifications. ACGME accreditation provides some safeguards but many of the criteria of the ACGME are just checklists to show that a process is in place, not that the process is fair and free of corruption or even rampant corruption. The track record of the ACGME is that some weak programs are never on probation and a few reasonably reputable programs have been on probation some time in their history. One example is the University of Wisconsin ophthalmology residency. WTF?!

As far as post #13, what caused the resident to be fired. There are real life cases, some documented online, where a resident has been arbitrarily fired or even fired with reasons fabricated. It's good that it doesn't happen to the majority of residents. Other residents who are fired are actually not very good. Some bad residents evade getting fired. I've heard of a few cases where the fired resident was highly suspect to be a victim of false persecution, wrong race, or other factors.

Family medicine is an extremely difficult, if not impossible field to be comprehensively proficient in all aspects. The fall back is recognition and referral, which is often almost as good as having knowledge first hand.

 

[samac]

It varies between specialties but in some specialties, the worse residency in the U.S. still provides sufficient training to be very proficient in the specialty. Board certification is not the be all, end all, but that provides additional documentation of qualifications. ACGME accreditation provides some safeguards but many of the criteria of the ACGME are just checklists to show that a process is in place, not that the process is fair and free of corruption or even rampant corruption. The track record of the ACGME is that some weak programs are never on probation and a few reasonably reputable programs have been on probation some time in their history. One example is the University of Wisconsin ophthalmology residency. WTF?!

As far as post #13, what caused the resident to be fired. There are real life cases, some documented online, where a resident has been arbitrarily fired or even fired with reasons fabricated. It's good that it doesn't happen to the majority of residents. Other residents who are fired are actually not very good. Some bad residents evade getting fired. I've heard of a few cases where the fired resident was highly suspect to be a victim of false persecution, wrong race, or other factors.

Family medicine is an extremely difficult, if not impossible field to be comprehensively proficient in all aspects. The fall back is recognition and referral, which is often almost as good as having knowledge first hand.

Thank you for your response to the 5 year old thread

 

[Gonio5]

Thank you for your response to the 5 year old thread

The people who started it have advanced in their careers but the topic is timeless. I found the thread because I was searching for the topic, having heard about someone who disliked their FM residency.

 

[DO2015CA]

It varies between specialties but in some specialties, the worse residency in the U.S. still provides sufficient training to be very proficient in the specialty. Board certification is not the be all, end all, but that provides additional documentation of qualifications. ACGME accreditation provides some safeguards but many of the criteria of the ACGME are just checklists to show that a process is in place, not that the process is fair and free of corruption or even rampant corruption. The track record of the ACGME is that some weak programs are never on probation and a few reasonably reputable programs have been on probation some time in their history. One example is the University of Wisconsin ophthalmology residency. WTF?!

As far as post #13, what caused the resident to be fired. There are real life cases, some documented online, where a resident has been arbitrarily fired or even fired with reasons fabricated. It's good that it doesn't happen to the majority of residents. Other residents who are fired are actually not very good. Some bad residents evade getting fired. I've heard of a few cases where the fired resident was highly suspect to be a victim of false persecution, wrong race, or other factors.

Family medicine is an extremely difficult, if not impossible field to be comprehensively proficient in all aspects. The fall back is recognition and referral, which is often almost as good as having knowledge first hand.

The issue is the time to get into the specialist is too long. Certain people on this board have recommended doing away with FM because of the fund of knowledge required. Doing IM, OB, ER, and Peds all in a 3 year residency seems insurmountable

 

[Gonio5]

Certain people on this board have recommended doing away with FM because of the fund of knowledge required. Doing IM, OB, ER, and Peds all in a 3 year residency seems insurmountable

In Canada, it's worse. Their FM residencies are only 2 years in length. Way too short?

 

[DO2015CA]

In Canada, it's worse. Their FM residencies are only 2 years in length. Way too short?

No clue. I don’t judge specialties that I’m not in as idk what all of their training entails

 

[chilly_md]

There's nothing to add to this old topic.

Closing.