Bad References?

[Great Butts]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about VMCAS (don't we all?) Experiences. I used to perform research with a professor, as well as work in his lab as a work-study student for a while. I'd say a good year and a half or so of my undergrad has been spent in his lab.

We had a HUGE falling out this past summer. Very personal reasons - along sexual harassment lines. I don't want to mention this to interviewers or state this on my application, I feel that's just asking for trouble and more inquiry since I haven't done anything about it. I was kicked out of his lab after I made it very clear that I would not take his advances any longer and he left me a very unsatisfactory grade for a course I was taking with him as my advisor.

Now, I still want to list all of this work experience and research experience on my application since it was a large part of my undergrad experience, but I don't want any of my schools to contact him for fear of him badmouthing me. I know there is an option for authorizing release of information and allowing schools to contact him, but wouldn't it seem fishy if a student chose not to authorize schools to contact my references? What do I do?

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[Jess Monster]

I've never heard of vet schools contacting people you name as supervisors (or whatever) from your VMCAS experience section to, presumably, fact check your application. I could be wrong and VMCAS might have new features or something from last year, but I know for me personally, I don't have phone numbers or emails anymore for some people or the business/non-profit has been disbanded since I worked with them so numbers/emails don't work anymore. For those experiences, I don't complete all of the boxes for contact information and no one has ever questioned it.

If you don't want him to be a reference for VMCAS, don't use him for a recommendation. Also for the experience section, if there was a lab manager or some other supervisor who you have less problems with at that lab, list that person on the application.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about VMCAS (don't we all?) Experiences. I used to perform research with a professor, as well as work in his lab as a work-study student for a while. I'd say a good year and a half or so of my undergrad has been spent in his lab.

We had a HUGE falling out this past summer. Very personal reasons - along sexual harassment lines. I don't want to mention this to interviewers or state this on my application, I feel that's just asking for trouble and more inquiry since I haven't done anything about it. I was kicked out of his lab after I made it very clear that I would not take his advances any longer and he left me a very unsatisfactory grade for a course I was taking with him as my advisor.

Now, I still want to list all of this work experience and research experience on my application since it was a large part of my undergrad experience, but I don't want any of my schools to contact him for fear of him badmouthing me. I know there is an option for authorizing release of information and allowing schools to contact him, but wouldn't it seem fishy if a student chose not to authorize schools to contact my references? What do I do?

I don't think it is necessarily suspicious. I think if you listed that you had thousands upon thousands of quality hours but the timing of them seems off, not listing contact info might seem suspicious.

It's rare for vet schools to call on experiences because they simply don't have time. They will call if something seems really off (like the example I made) probably, but I'm sure that's not the case with your experience. They don't call on every single one. I wouldn't stress too much about this. You could possibly list the name but not the phone number, but I get that the situation is really uncomfortable. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

 

[Great Butts]

I've never heard of vet schools contacting people you name as supervisors (or whatever) from your VMCAS experience section to, presumably, fact check your application. I could be wrong and VMCAS might have new features or something from last year, but I know for me personally, I don't have phone numbers or emails anymore for some people or the business/non-profit has been disbanded since I worked with them so numbers/emails don't work anymore. For those experiences, I don't complete all of the boxes for contact information and no one has ever questioned it.

If you don't want him to be a reference for VMCAS, don't use him for a recommendation. Also for the experience section, if there was a lab manager or some other supervisor who you have less problems with at that lab, list that person on the application.

Thank you for the reply, I was just trying to be cautious in case something out of the blue happened. I know that UGA calls references instead of conducting interviews for their admissions process, but I wasn't sure what references they would pull from (experiences on the VMCAS app, LORS, or stuff on the Supp App that I haven't seen yet). He was the only supervisor and PI of the lab, I was pretty much lab manager since I was the only one who did all the work. Thanks for the help, I'll just leave the contact info blank but his name still on there.

 

[Great Butts]

I don't think it is necessarily suspicious. I think if you listed that you had thousands upon thousands of quality hours but the timing of them seems off, not listing contact info might seem suspicious.

It's rare for vet schools to call on experiences because they simply don't have time. They will call if something seems really off (like the example I made) probably, but I'm sure that's not the case with your experience. They don't call on every single one. I wouldn't stress too much about this. You could possibly list the name but not the phone number, but I get that the situation is really uncomfortable. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Thanks for the reply! I'll just list the name and leave the rest of the contact information blank. I'm always iffy about listing these experiences on my resume and applications for fear of someone contacting him, because I already know that he is petty enough to ruin my grades/GPA due to this situation. Hopefully it won't be a bother this cycle.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

We had a HUGE falling out this past summer. Very personal reasons - along sexual harassment lines. I don't want to mention this to interviewers or state this on my application, I feel that's just asking for trouble and more inquiry since I haven't done anything about it. I was kicked out of his lab after I made it very clear that I would not take his advances any longer and he left me a very unsatisfactory grade for a course I was taking with him as my advisor.

Now, I still want to list all of this work experience and research experience on my application since it was a large part of my undergrad experience, but I don't want any of my schools to contact him for fear of him badmouthing me. I know there is an option for authorizing release of information and allowing schools to contact him, but wouldn't it seem fishy if a student chose not to authorize schools to contact my references? What do I do?

Why not? This seems like a disgusting person who needs to be out of academia. What institution is this at? PM me if you don't feel like speaking out publicly. I see TAMU and UGA in your post history, I have good friends at both who could potentially pull for you.

What if he does this to students in the future? It may be painful, but you really need to report this.

 

[flameshock]

Why not? This seems like a disgusting person who needs to be out of academia. What institution is this at? PM me if you don't feel like speaking out publicly. I see TAMU and UGA in your post history, I have good friends at both who could potentially pull for you.

What if he does this to students in the future? It may be painful, but you really need to report this.

I agree whole heartedly with WTF. If he did this to you, he can do it to someone else in the future. Raising your voice and protesting may make you uncomfortable but it is also the first step to making that institution better for students.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Wow. I'm so sorry this happened to you!

 

[cdo96]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about VMCAS (don't we all?) Experiences. I used to perform research with a professor, as well as work in his lab as a work-study student for a while. I'd say a good year and a half or so of my undergrad has been spent in his lab.

We had a HUGE falling out this past summer. Very personal reasons - along sexual harassment lines. I don't want to mention this to interviewers or state this on my application, I feel that's just asking for trouble and more inquiry since I haven't done anything about it. I was kicked out of his lab after I made it very clear that I would not take his advances any longer and he left me a very unsatisfactory grade for a course I was taking with him as my advisor.

Now, I still want to list all of this work experience and research experience on my application since it was a large part of my undergrad experience, but I don't want any of my schools to contact him for fear of him badmouthing me. I know there is an option for authorizing release of information and allowing schools to contact him, but wouldn't it seem fishy if a student chose not to authorize schools to contact my references? What do I do?

I would either leave contact info blank, or fill in contact info and click to not authorize schools to contact references. You could always briefly explain why in your interview (or potentially your explanation statement, but I'm not sure about that one)


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[TrashPanda]

I think the best solution would be to report this to someone higher up, like a dean in that department, and also put that person down as a reference. They would be able to confirm that you worked in the lab and also explain why the PI was not a reference, if necessary.

I don't want to mention this to interviewers or state this on my application, I feel that's just asking for trouble and more inquiry since I haven't done anything about it.

It's not asking for trouble and I hope you're not blaming yourself. It's very, very commonly understood that sexual harassment is underreported. I don't want to push you to report because that is a personal decision (though I agree it would be best if you did). Even if you don't want to report officially or don't feel ready to, I suggest talking to a professor you trust, a counselor, or someone at your college whose job it is to deal with sexual harassment issues who can advise you further.

 

[Great Butts]

Why not? This seems like a disgusting person who needs to be out of academia. What institution is this at? PM me if you don't feel like speaking out publicly. I see TAMU and UGA in your post history, I have good friends at both who could potentially pull for you.

What if he does this to students in the future? It may be painful, but you really need to report this.

It's at a private Christian university in Texas that has been under fire for sexual harassment scandals recently.

I haven't reported it yet because he's held in very high regard within the Biology department - he's also not the first faculty member in the College of Arts and Sciences that has had scandals like this. I was also young and naive when I was in his lab, so I did not handle the situation well. I do have texts on my old phone that I could always readily show his wife and other faculty members, but he has some very young children and I would not want to destroy a family for the sake of my grades. I am also pretty close to a few faculty members that have good relations with him. I'm very passive and the type to not cause trouble, which is a fault of mine, but I did let him take advantage of me in a way that I shouldn't have - that is my fault.

 

[Great Butts]

Wow. I'm so sorry this happened to you!

Thank you for your thoughtfulness! It wasn't a huge deal though, and I'm over it.

 

[Great Butts]

I think the best solution would be to report this to someone higher up, like a dean in that department, and also put that person down as a reference. They would be able to confirm that you worked in the lab and also explain why the PI was not a reference, if necessary.

It's not asking for trouble and I hope you're not blaming yourself. It's very, very commonly understood that sexual harassment is underreported. I don't want to push you to report because that is a personal decision (though I agree it would be best if you did). Even if you don't want to report officially or don't feel ready to, I suggest talking to a professor you trust, a counselor, or someone at your college whose job it is to deal with sexual harassment issues who can advise you further.

Well, the issue is that the sexual harassment was never extremely forward. He never laid his hands on me, but he made me very uncomfortable with many of his comments (at one point saying that he would have had sex with me had he been my age) and the way he acted around me. As I've said above, he is held in high regard among faculty (which shouldn't be an excuse of course), but office politics give me less of an incentive to do something about it. I would rather leave it all behind and move forward.

I would say that karma is swinging around though. Recently, all of his grad students finally became fed up and left his lab - along with it, all of his research grant money. He is held in high regard, but notorious for being kind of a ****bag when it comes to how he treats his students. I was just naive at the time and unknowing of his reputation, I was easily manipulated and should have seen it coming. He is tenured though, I forgot to mention that. I wouldn't know how easy it would be to boot him out for being an dingus. He's not a bad guy. Just an arrogant dingus.

 

[Staffie]

Sexual harassment is still harassment, whether it was physical or not. Of course it is your decision whether you want to report it or not, but I really think you should seriously consider doing so. He could easily continue to behave like this with other "young and naive" students, and possibly even take it further and physically act on it. If you report it, he could be reprimanded and such an incident in the future could possibly be prevented. Even if it did not prevent him from doing something else, at least there would be a record somewhere.

There is no need at all for you to blame yourself for what happened. He was in a position of power over you and he behaved inappropriately towards you, so much so that you wouldn't want him to be contacted as a reference for you. You're under no obligation to defend him from any repercussions of his actions. He chose to act how he did, and he should live with the consequences. It shouldn't be a concern of yours at all that he has a family or is "held in high regard." If anything, your experience shows that he should not be held in high regard. If he truly cared about his family and his job, he wouldn't have done what he did. And stop saying that he's not a bad guy. His actions were horrible and he clearly doesn't know how to treat people professionally and respectfully. If you report this, especially with the evidence of old texts from him, you can help prevent him from hurting other people. That's not you causing trouble. That's just you doing the right thing.

 

[Great Butts]

Sexual harassment is still harassment, whether it was physical or not. Of course it is your decision whether you want to report it or not, but I really think you should seriously consider doing so. He could easily continue to behave like this with other "young and naive" students, and possibly even take it further and physically act on it. If you report it, he could be reprimanded and such an incident in the future could possibly be prevented. Even if it did not prevent him from doing something else, at least there would be a record somewhere.

There is no need at all for you to blame yourself for what happened. He was in a position of power over you and he behaved inappropriately towards you, so much so that you wouldn't want him to be contacted as a reference for you. You're under no obligation to defend him from any repercussions of his actions. He chose to act how he did, and he should live with the consequences. It shouldn't be a concern of yours at all that he has a family or is "held in high regard." If anything, your experience shows that he should not be held in high regard. If he truly cared about his family and his job, he wouldn't have done what he did. And stop saying that he's not a bad guy. His actions were horrible and he clearly doesn't know how to treat people professionally and respectfully. If you report this, especially with the evidence of old texts from him, you can help prevent him from hurting other people. That's not you causing trouble. That's just you doing the right thing.

Thanks for the reply, you are correct on every regard. I know I should be reporting it so that other students won't be subjected to something similar from him. It's not an excuse, but perhaps I was just being a little selfish about it. With only one more year to go and having nothing to do with him ever again, I suppose I just wanted to let it go and be done. He'll be gone next semester, doing research abroad, so maybe it will be a little easier to talk to another professor about it.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It's at a private Christian university in Texas that has a good football team but has been under fire for sexual harassment scandals recently. Our mascot is a bear.

I haven't reported it yet because he's held in very high regard within the Biology department - he's also not the first faculty member in the College of Arts and Sciences that has had scandals like this. I was also young and naive when I was in his lab, so I did not handle the situation well. I do have texts on my old phone that I could always readily show his wife and other faculty members, but he has some very young children and I would not want to destroy a family for the sake of my grades. I am also pretty close to a few faculty members that have good relations with him. I'm very passive and the type to not cause trouble, which is a fault of mine, but I did let him take advantage of me in a way that I shouldn't have - that is my fault.

1) You would not be the one destroying his family. He did/is doing that completely by himself. The (hopefully) likely outcome of an investigation/reprimand like that would be that he would be barred from having female graduate students or undergraduate researchers, which would at least be a start.

2) You are in no way at fault for his actions.

And from your post above that - yes, he IS a bad guy. In addition to being an arrogant ass. Good people do not try to take advantage of young female students in their labs.

It's definitely intimidating when it is someone in a position of power - I totally get you. But Staffie is right on point.

 

[Great Butts]

Hey all, I apologize for reviving this thread. I just wanted to say that I have already initiated the process of filing this incident with my university's Title IX office - I don't really expect anything to happen to this guy but I've decided to go through with it anyway!

However, I have a traditional open file interview come up, so the interview committee will have access to my grades and will certainly see the B- he gave me in the honours research course I took with him. In my personal statement, I emphasized that I switched labs due to a change in interest, but this B- seems to be a glaring issue that they'd ask me about. How should I approach this?

 

[rockatiel]

Hey all, I apologize for reviving this thread. I just wanted to say that I have already initiated the process of filing this incident with my university's Title IX office - I don't really expect anything to happen to this guy but I've decided to go through with it anyway!

However, I have a traditional open file interview come up, so the interview committee will have access to my grades and will certainly see the B- he gave me in the honours research course I took with him. In my personal statement, I emphasized that I switched labs due to a change in interest, but this B- seems to be a glaring issue that they'd ask me about. How should I approach this?

I'm so very happy that you've decided to report this. You may assume that there will be no outcome, but just keep following it through. You're very brave for doing this I loved my undergrad's title ix coordinator and I'm sure they will work hard to make things right.

As for the grade, I had 3 C's in one semester in my application and it was never brought up. I don't know the rest of your transcript, but I don't think one B- is a huge blemish.

 

[Great Butts]

I'm so very happy that you've decided to report this. You may assume that there will be no outcome, but just keep following it through. You're very brave for doing this I loved my undergrad's title ix coordinator and I'm sure they will work hard to make things right.

As for the grade, I had 3 C's in one semester in my application and it was never brought up. I don't know the rest of your transcript, but I don't think one B- is a huge blemish.

Thank you! I was just always so hesitant about it since I'm very close with a lot of Biology faculty, but I'm graduating in a bit anyway!

I was just worried about the B- because the class is a one hour course titled Advanced Research and Readings, so even though it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it seems stupid to have gotten such a grade that should have been an easy A. Even more so, since my goal in vetmed is research.

 

[cdo96]

Thank you! I was just always so hesitant about it since I'm very close with a lot of Biology faculty, but I'm graduating in a bit anyway!

I was just worried about the B- because the class is a one hour course titled Advanced Research and Readings, so even though it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it seems stupid to have gotten such a grade that should have been an easy A. Even more so, since my goal in vetmed is research.

If it's bothering you and it's directly related to the incident you *might* be able to petition to retake the class with a different professor, but I'm not sure.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Hey all, I apologize for reviving this thread. I just wanted to say that I have already initiated the process of filing this incident with my university's Title IX office - I don't really expect anything to happen to this guy but I've decided to go through with it anyway!

However, I have a traditional open file interview come up, so the interview committee will have access to my grades and will certainly see the B- he gave me in the honours research course I took with him. In my personal statement, I emphasized that I switched labs due to a change in interest, but this B- seems to be a glaring issue that they'd ask me about. How should I approach this?

I don't think a B- in a sea of good grades will raise any eyebrows.

I'm so glad you went forward with title ix. Good for you for standing up for yourself, whatever the outcome!

 

[Momokeen]

Hey @Great Butts! Just thought I'd reach out and let you know you aren't alone with this kind of situation. When I first applied two years ago, a vet I was asking for a letter of recommendation from made it clear I would have to "hang out" with him in order to get one. It really screwed me over and I had to find another vet to get hours with DURING the application process. Luckily, my family vet stepped up and let me volunteer with him. Some people are just scum and try to use their power over you to an advantage. I had no option to report him, but luckily he had moved on to buy his own practice so I could list someone else as the contact for the experience. But I think you will be fine with that B-. If they ask you about it in an interview though I would be honest, but not too detailed maybe? Just try to spin what you "learned" from the situation in a way that will make you look like a stronger person to them. I really wish you luck!

 

[Great Butts]

Hey @Great Butts! Just thought I'd reach out and let you know you aren't alone with this kind of situation. When I first applied two years ago, a vet I was asking for a letter of recommendation from made it clear I would have to "hang out" with him in order to get one. It really screwed me over and I had to find another vet to get hours with DURING the application process. Luckily, my family vet stepped up and let me volunteer with him. Some people are just scum and try to use their power over you to an advantage. I had no option to report him, but luckily he had moved on to buy his own practice so I could list someone else as the contact for the experience. But I think you will be fine with that B-. If they ask you about it in an interview though I would be honest, but not too detailed maybe? Just try to spin what you "learned" from the situation in a way that will make you look like a stronger person to them. I really wish you luck!

I'm so sorry that happened to you! It's a terrible position to be in as a female, and I feel as if there's this stigma to suck it up and move on for fear of overreacting. I hope that you are no longer in contact with him and he hasn't affected you much.

Thank you for the support, everyone, I really appreciate it!

 

[Cephal0pod]

Hey all, I apologize for reviving this thread. I just wanted to say that I have already initiated the process of filing this incident with my university's Title IX office - I don't really expect anything to happen to this guy but I've decided to go through with it anyway!

However, I have a traditional open file interview come up, so the interview committee will have access to my grades and will certainly see the B- he gave me in the honours research course I took with him. In my personal statement, I emphasized that I switched labs due to a change in interest, but this B- seems to be a glaring issue that they'd ask me about. How should I approach this?

Good for you for beginning that reporting process! So sorry that whole debacle happened to you.

I also wouldn't stress at all about that B-. I would be absolutely astonished if that came up in an interview.

Best wishes!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I don't think a B- in a sea of good grades will raise any eyebrows.

I'm so glad you went forward with title ix. Good for you for standing up for yourself, whatever the outcome!

I know what you're saying here, but just wanted to remind everyone...a B- is still a good grade. A GREAT grade? No. But it's still a good one. We all get SO caught up in grades that it is "A" or nothing, and that's a really unhealthy way to look at things. Sometimes you need to take a step back and look at things outside of the vet school microscope. A B- on a transcript is not a big deal at all.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I know what you're saying here, but just wanted to remind everyone...a B- is still a good grade. A GREAT grade? No. But it's still a good one. We all get SO caught up in grades that it is "A" or nothing, and that's a really unhealthy way to look at things. Sometimes you need to take a step back and look at things outside of the vet school microscope. A B- on a transcript is not a big deal at all.

You said it better than I did.