Being a medical scribe?

[dvmcatdog]

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I'm thinking about applying for a job at a human hospital as a medical scribe. I don't have any interest in going to medical school, most vet jobs I've found can't work around my school schedule. I figured a lot of the diseases can be the same and the anatomy is similar. I also feel it would be good to have a job other than veterinary related things to learn how to better communicate with people. After all at the end of that leash is the person paying the bill. Would veterinary schools look down upon this? I feel they might think that I want to go to medical school or something even though I only want to go to vet school, what do you guys think?

 

[rpdvm2021]

I honestly thought about working as a medical scribe before I applied to vet school, as well. I think it could be a good thing that will set you apart from the crowd when you apply to vet school. It shows that you have good attention to detail and also gives you medical knowledge. As long as you keep up with getting animal/veterinary experiences, I don't see why vet schools would look down upon this!

 

[pp9]

I'm thinking about applying for a job at a human hospital as a medical scribe. I don't have any interest in going to medical school, most vet jobs I've found can't work around my school schedule. I figured a lot of the diseases can be the same and the anatomy is similar. I also feel it would be good to have a job other than veterinary related things to learn how to better communicate with people. After all at the end of that leash is the person paying the bill. Would veterinary schools look down upon this? I feel they might think that I want to go to medical school or something even though I only want to go to vet school, what do you guys think?

I don't think it would be looked down upon. My best friend did this for years (she was pre-med at the time). Just so you know, not all scribe positions allow you to communicate with the patients directly if that was what you were hoping for. My friend was present for all physician-patient interactions, but all she did was literally write it all down. It's still good experience to observe that of course, but it's not like she got to pick the physician's brain about cases. Other scribe companies/hospitals may handle things differently. If you're looking at this job for those specific reasons (communication skills and learning about diseases), make sure whatever job your applying for would allow that kind of stuff. You could definitely look up the disease processes on your own time.

 

[JRod94]

I'm thinking about applying for a job at a human hospital as a medical scribe. I don't have any interest in going to medical school, most vet jobs I've found can't work around my school schedule. I figured a lot of the diseases can be the same and the anatomy is similar. I also feel it would be good to have a job other than veterinary related things to learn how to better communicate with people. After all at the end of that leash is the person paying the bill. Would veterinary schools look down upon this? I feel they might think that I want to go to medical school or something even though I only want to go to vet school, what do you guys think?

They don't look down upon it at all! I worked as an EMT for 3 years with both my university and the county and it was one of the things that set me apart from the other applicants as well as a big talking point when I went for my interviews Scribing in the ER will help teach you how to maintain composure in a truly stressful environment where everyone is doing something different but essential for the patient. I think if you can get a job as a scribe in the ER, go for it! It'll definitely help.

 

[Ashgirl]

I'm thinking about applying for a job at a human hospital as a medical scribe. I don't have any interest in going to medical school, most vet jobs I've found can't work around my school schedule. I figured a lot of the diseases can be the same and the anatomy is similar. I also feel it would be good to have a job other than veterinary related things to learn how to better communicate with people. After all at the end of that leash is the person paying the bill. Would veterinary schools look down upon this? I feel they might think that I want to go to medical school or something even though I only want to go to vet school, what do you guys think?

I don't think they will look down upon it at all, you can even work it in your favor. However, just be careful about committing to a job with a ton of hours that doesn't allow you to get enough vet shadowing experience, since that could indirectly affect your chances.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I think it can definitely help IF you also have sufficient veterinary experience...but don't sacrifice time you could be using to spend with a vet to do this

 

[Baer]

I was a medic in the army and both schools that I applied to seemed pretty interested in that I had that experience. I wouldn't really say that would view any sort of human medicine experience negatively. With that said, I got waitlisted for both schools so maybe they didn't like it as much as they acted like they did 😛 I could see where it may throw some minor red flags that the person can't make up their mind...but that may just be me being paranoid.

 

[dvmcatdog]

And getting a LOR from the physician I would work with most is fine?


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[mmmdreamerz]

And getting a LOR from the physician I would work with most is fine?


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As long as you also have a letter from a DVM

 

[Baer]

And getting a LOR from the physician I would work with most is fine?


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My 3 letters came from a physicians assistant, a nurse practitioner/flight surgeon (pretty much a provider that does stuff in flight, not an actual surgeon), and a DVM. No one made a mention of my letters at all. I only had 1 "normal" interview (other was MMI at VT) and again, I'm waitlisted at both so I can't speak for how successful that choice was.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

As others have said, as long as you're still getting vet experience and building a good relationship with a DVM for a LOR, you'll be fine. Just don't expect to substitute medical experience for veterinary. This job will be really unique and will be an interesting part of your application, but you also need substantial veterinary experience to be competitive.

 

[dvmcatdog]

I am shadowing with a general DVM and equine DVM pretty often. I also hope to start doing some research 6 hrs a week in a lab, not animal related but still research. I have about 2,000 hours of DVM experience and will continue to get it even if I get the scribe position. I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt my application.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I am shadowing with a general DVM and equine DVM pretty often. I also hope to start doing some research 6 hrs a week in a lab, not animal related but still research. I have about 2,000 hours of DVM experience and will continue to get it even if I get the scribe position. I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt my application.

Oh, you're fine! 2,000 hours is great and you're still actively shadowing, which will keep your LOR relationships current. Don't worry about taking this job. Money is money, and a lot of applicants have jobs outside of vet med. Any type of employment is a valid experience that can only help you; any job (medical or otherwise) can show the breadth of your experience, skills, dedication, ability to juggle time commitments, communication skills, people skills, ability to work under pressure, and etc.

 

[pp9]

I am shadowing with a general DVM and equine DVM pretty often. I also hope to start doing some research 6 hrs a week in a lab, not animal related but still research. I have about 2,000 hours of DVM experience and will continue to get it even if I get the scribe position. I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt my application.

I would try to expand your experience outside of GP and equine. We've talked about this in your other thread. There's food animal, wildlife, zoo, etc. 2000 hours is good, but with your other stats, you need to do everything you can to convince adcoms you should be accepted.

Also...is it true research where you're working on a paper that will list you as author, or are you working in a lab washing the glassware or even helping someone else get data for their papers? There's a huge difference between the two.

 

[TrashPanda]

Also...is it true research where you're working on a paper that will list you as author, or are you working in a lab washing the glassware or even helping someone else get data for their papers? There's a huge difference between the two.

"Any experience in a research environment" counts as research for VMCAS. Of course the more involvement and responsibility the better, but that goes for any activity or experience listed.

 

[pp9]

"Any experience in a research environment" counts as research for VMCAS. Of course the more involvement and responsibility the better, but that goes for any activity or experience listed.

I never said it wouldn't, though. OP has been posting in multiple threads asking for help, and given the stats posted, washing glassware/running tests for someone else would probably not be as beneficial as expanding veterinary experience or actually writing up your own project. The distinction needs to be made in order to determine what experience would be more valuable.

Just FYI though, a good number of schools don't count anything other than your name on a paper as research. I went through this with many many schools when I was choosing what schools to apply to. VMCAS has to please everyone and is in no position to evaluate what counts as research or not, so they will always tell you to just list everything or "use your best judgment." That's why they have the fine print of "Veterinary schools can weigh your level of involvement according to their school’s standards."

 

[TrashPanda]

I never said it wouldn't, though. OP has been posting in multiple threads asking for help, and given the stats posted, washing glassware/running tests for someone else would probably not be as beneficial as expanding veterinary experience or actually writing up your own project. The distinction needs to be made in order to determine what experience would be more valuable.

Just FYI though, a good number of schools don't count anything other than your name on a paper as research. I went through this with many many schools when I was choosing what schools to apply to. VMCAS has to please everyone and is in no position to evaluate what counts as research or not, so they will always tell you to just list everything or "use your best judgment." That's why they have the fine print of "Veterinary schools can weigh your level of involvement according to their school’s standards."

I know, I've been in those threads too. I just wanted to clarify that it counts either way, especially since OP hasn't given any indication that their research isn't what you call "true research." But yeah, obviously they're not going to be super impressed with someone's glassware washing abilities.

I can believe that, but I haven't run into it myself or seen it on any websites for the schools I applied to. I haven't published and had no issues. Schools seemed impressed with my research experience.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I never said it wouldn't, though. OP has been posting in multiple threads asking for help, and given the stats posted, washing glassware/running tests for someone else would probably not be as beneficial as expanding veterinary experience or actually writing up your own project. The distinction needs to be made in order to determine what experience would be more valuable.

Just FYI though, a good number of schools don't count anything other than your name on a paper as research. I went through this with many many schools when I was choosing what schools to apply to. VMCAS has to please everyone and is in no position to evaluate what counts as research or not, so they will always tell you to just list everything or "use your best judgment." That's why they have the fine print of "Veterinary schools can weigh your level of involvement according to their school’s standards."

Of course a research publication makes a better CV line than washing glassware. That doesn't mean that it wont be a valuable experience for the OP. Just getting into a lab and getting involved is a big step, and the experience will help expose the OP to other careers that they could pursue in and out of vet med. Considering that the OP has a lot of veterinary experience (even if it is just GP and equine) but no research experience, I think it's odd advice to say that it won't be as valuable.

It's all subjective and every application and school is different - but, when I applied last year my forestry research internship was one of the adcom's favorite things about my application.

And the bolded - even if certain schools won't consider the OP's experience as research, it can still be an interesting point of her application. I only know of a handful of undergrads who had their names on research publications, and the lab was their life. (They were all grad school bound, not vet school) I mean, if lab work is only worthwhile if you get a publication out of it . . . I think this is a tricky statement to make, and is untrue in the context of many applications.

 

[deleted676737]

I'm sort of in the middle on this issue.

I don't think that simply washing glassware or cleaning up the lab should be considered research experience... or, at the very least, it shouldn't be viewed on the same level as the experiences of an applicant who was actually involved in the scientific process. In my personal experience, I knew several of my classmates in undergrad joined a lab to do these duties just so that they could say that they had research experience on their professional school applications. I don't think that that's right and I'd imagine that most schools see through that sort of thing.

If you're actually helping to gather results, interpreting them, writing proposals/publications, presenting at a conference, or even organizing and doing your own project... those are far more legitimate experiences that I would definitely say are worth listing. These are also the types of research experience that I think most schools value. I don't really agree that there necessarily has to be a paper published in order for it to be significant, but there is no denying that it helps if you can achieve authorship and there is considerable clout that comes along with something like that.

As an example, my research experience consisted of running statistical tests on gathered data, giving an oral presentation at a statewide conference, and writing the Abstract of the paper that we looking to publish in an ecology journal (I don't think that ever actually happened, unfortunately, as my PI has since passed away and I don't know that anyone is going to further seek getting the research out). But schools that I applied to were really, really interested in those experiences and I was able to talk about them at great length.

 

[JaynaAli]

To me, washing dishes and other 'entry level' jobs in a research lab (which I did do during undergrad) is akin to cleaning kennels in a veterinary hospital. It really isn't the 'best' thing to do per se, but you can gain valuable information about how things run and hopefully get your foot in the door to something bigger and better. Even if it doesn't make you the Greatest Prevet that Ever Prevetted, it's still an experience you had and is worth listing. The schools can decide how much they weigh that experience...all you can do is tell them what you did.

Edited to add: Know what washing dishes, hexane washing vials ahead of experiments, and doing some entry-level DNA extractions in a research lab my freshman year taught me? That I probably didn't want to do research as a career. I did it a semester because (admittedly) I thought it sounded cool and there was a scholarship attached, realized it wasn't for me, and stopped. I learned that so much more of being a PI was grant writing, paperwork, and people-skills than I ever imagined possible, and I learned that grad students work very hard and things can derail their goals in minutes when an experiment doesn't go as planned. I learned how long it actually takes to get something published. I also learned a little about rumen microflora thanks to the PhD I was working under. I think that was valuable experience even if it wasn't directly applicable to veterinary medicine.

 

[pp9]

I know, I've been in those threads too. I just wanted to clarify that it counts either way, especially since OP hasn't given any indication that their research isn't what you call "true research." But yeah, obviously they're not going to be super impressed with someone's glassware washing abilities.

I can believe that, but I haven't run into it myself or seen it on any websites for the schools I applied to. I haven't published and had no issues. Schools seemed impressed with my research experience.

But it actually doesn't always count, and the whole point of me bringing that up is so OP maybe takes that into consideration when seeking out ways to improve his/her application. Could it lead to something bigger and better? Maybe, but given that OP is nearing the end of her undergrad...(hence me bringing up her other thread before).

This is a very school-dependent area of the application, and it would only help people if they would be clear about what they want on their websites. I had to call/ask in person when I applied. Did I still list my unpublished work? Yes, but I also knew the schools I chose weren't going to give me 'points' for it after I described my work and said they were looking for published work. That's also only four schools out of however many we have now, this is why it's up to the individual to find out what schools may mesh best with your application.

I'm sort of in the middle on this issue.

I don't think that simply washing glassware or cleaning up the lab should be considered research experience... or, at the very least, it shouldn't be viewed on the same level as the experiences of an applicant who was actually involved in the scientific process. In my personal experience, I knew several of my classmates in undergrad joined a lab to do these duties just so that they could say that they had research experience on their professional school applications. I don't think that that's right and I'd imagine that most schools see through that sort of thing.

If you're actually helping to gather results, interpreting them, writing proposals/publications, presenting at a conference, or even organizing and doing your own project... those are far more legitimate experiences that I would definitely say are worth listing. These are also the types of research experience that I think most schools value. I don't really agree that there necessarily has to be a paper published in order for it to be significant, but there is no denying that it helps if you can achieve authorship and there is considerable clout that comes along with something like that.

As an example, my research experience consisted of running statistical tests on gathered data, giving an oral presentation at a statewide conference, and writing the Abstract of the paper that we looking to publish in an ecology journal (I don't think that ever actually happened, unfortunately, as my PI has since passed away and I don't know that anyone is going to further seek getting the research out). But schools that I applied to were really, really interested in those experiences and I was able to talk about them at great length.

I'd bet that most labs see straight through that as well. I had peers in undergrad who never got bumped up from glassware, but saw other students come in after them and be handed a project. Frustrating for sure, but you will go farther in a research setting if you have a genuine interest beyond 'this will help me get into vet school.' I think @WhtsThFrequency had a really good POV on this in a previous thread that holds more weight than mine for sure.

I mean, I know VMCAS tells you to list kennel work as vet experience and washing glassware as research. I get it. However, it's up to the individual to assess the opportunity to determine if it will truly help you stand out as an applicant/help you grow as a future doctor, which is the stuff schools look for. I don't see why so many people eye-roll at listing pets as animal experience, but get huffy over someone telling them that being a glorified dishwasher isn't research. In my eyes, both are reaches. It's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Nothing pisses me off more in the lab than some pre-vet or pre-med who joins for a semester or something just to put it on their resume and spend most of their time dragging ass (disclaimer: I am speaking in general, not to anyone on this thread). We can see right through you, dude - obvious fake enthusiasm is obvious. And because of that, we *won't* bump you up from washing glassware because we know we can't trust you to actually care enough to not mess things up. Even worse is when some of these people ask for letters of recommendation. If, IF we even agree to do it, you best believe you are getting the most lukewarm LoR ever.

Now there is the flip side - I have been in a lab previously where undergraduates in general were essentially not even allowed to take on more complex tasks or their own projects - they were used as free lab janitors, which is 100% against what I believe undergrad research should be for. Every student that shows a **genuine interest and dependability** should be entrusted with something that gives them responsibility and helps them learn - preferably a project that they can work independently on once they learn the basic technical skills.

Unfortunately, 6 hours a week is in no way enough to undertake a worthwhile project or to really even get a whiff of what research is like. We require at least 9-10 hrs from our undergrads. People are going to keep putting it on their resume no matter what, unfortunately. But it's simply padding, and you can see right through that in interviews when you ask them what they did and what they learned. Eventually, too much padding will catch up with you.

 

[dvmcatdog]

I'm interested in a few professors at my university. One of them requires 6 hours a week for preferability one full year so we can "learn real science" in her words. It isn't washing glassware, it's actually working in a lab collecting data. I don't expect to get my name published but I am genuinely interested in research and want to see if it's something I like.


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[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

Nothing pisses me off more in the lab than some pre-vet or pre-med who joins for a semester or something just to put it on their resume and spend most of their time dragging ass (disclaimer: I am speaking in general, not to anyone on this thread). We can see right through you, dude - obvious fake enthusiasm is obvious. And because of that, we *won't* bump you up from washing glassware because we know we can't trust you to actually care enough to not mess things up. Even worse is when some of these people ask for letters of recommendation. If, IF we even agree to do it, you best believe you are getting the most lukewarm LoR ever.

Now there is the flip side - I have been in a lab previously where undergraduates in general were essentially not even allowed to take on more complex tasks or their own projects - they were used as free lab janitors, which is 100% against what I believe undergrad research should be for. Every student that shows a **genuine interest and dependability** should be entrusted with something that gives them responsibility and helps them learn - preferably a project that they can work independently on once they learn the basic technical skills.

Unfortunately, 6 hours a week is in no way enough to undertake a worthwhile project or to really even get a whiff of what research is like. We require at least 9-10 hrs from our undergrads. People are going to keep putting it on their resume no matter what, unfortunately. But it's simply padding, and you can see right through that in interviews when you ask them what they did and what they learned. Eventually, too much padding will catch up with you.

Out of curiosity: what is your thought on joining a lab because you have genuine interest in the research being done/want to be involved, but knowing that you will most likely never go into research as a career?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Out of curiosity: what is your thought on joining a lab because you have genuine interest in the research being done/want to be involved, but knowing that you will most likely never go into research as a career?

I think that's a completely fine and beneficial thing to do if you have actual interest/dedication and are willing to truly help the lab you join (rather than just have them help you by being a box to check off on a CV), because you can still learn a lot of adjunct skills such as problem solving, critical thinking, and hopefully getting a more "in-depth" cellular or chemical understanding of certain subjects. Heck, I went to vet school knowing I would most likely never be a general practitioner, even though the majority of the classwork is geared towards that. I took food animal courses track classes as electives because I liked them and found them interesting even though I would most likely never do ambulatory FA practice, etc.

Y'all are to smart and paying FAR too much money to just be little pill monkeys who look up which drug to give in Plumb's - you are going to be DOCTORS and that requires a much more in-depth appreciation for science and critical thinking. Research (and I mean active research borne out of genuine interest like you said) engages a different part of your brain than classroom because you are forced to ask independent questions, troubleshoot, etc which aren't really skills you truly develop until clinics IMO.

 

[LetItSnow]

just be little pill monkeys who look up which drug to give in Plumb's

Right. You want to do that, go get a PharmD. ;-)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Right. You want to do that, go get a PharmD. ;-)

Oh snap. You heard that @njac ?? #shotsfired!!! 😀