Best Do School??

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Dr JPH said:
Perhaps, but its in Texas.
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I'm not sure I see the problem.
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After some intense labor and spread sheet making to define the best DO school I pleased to announce the results in a tier system:


Tier 1
All schools outside colorado

Tier 25
RVUCOM


Any objections?
 
Once you decide on a school you have already decided it is the best for you and you would be crazy not to endorse your own education and therefore your own skills. Keeping that in mind, take the opinions here for what they are worth, everyone should endorse their own school and very few if anyone here has had the experience of more than one school to make any comparison. How do I know that my school is really any better than another COM?

There are, however, a few factors that are important facts with the quality of medical schools that you can evaluate. Does the school have its own residency program, does it have good teaching hospitals, and does it have resources in the things that I am interested in (standardized patient labs, club activities, simulators, etc.)?

If you want the "best", then you need to make a list of things that you consider important in a medical school and list the schools that offer those things. Also asking medical students in their later years of training what they feel are important in medical education can help you make a good list. This is a tough and important decision, don't make it based on endorsements from people trying to validate their own decisions and training. Quite simply, I am happy with mine
 
:thumbup:
Dr JPH said:
PCOM is clearly the top osteopathic school. No one will refute that. And those who do, look at the school they go to. Its often a "small market" school or one of the new kids on the block.

But there are still some other very strong schools:

MSUCOM, NYCOM, CCOM, OUCOM

Look for schools affiliated with large Universities or are in large metropolitan areas...and have graduated more than 20 classes.
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I refute that PCOM is the best DO school.

You could probably say top 5 and definitely top 10, based on various categories, but there is not one best school. As nearly EVERYONE points out, different schools are best in different categories for different people.

Plus, a lot of people say that the school they attend or went to is best, so take it with a grain of salt when someone from PCOM says PCOM is best. (even though JPH is correct 95% of the time on objective questions:thumbup:)
 
NYCOM is the best because our school is putting satellites into geosynchronus orbit that will track our every movement for attendance purposes. Goooo NYCOM!!

PS: Just kidding...NYCOM is the best (for me at least) because of A) Location B) Rotation sites and C) Location.
 
Seriously...how is this even an answerable question? How objective can this be. Is it really any surprise that JPH would vote PCOM or that anyone else wouldn't pimp their school? Or that I would pimp TCOM because it has very low in and out of state tuition and some of the highest MCAT/GPA scores among osteopathic matriculants? ;)

Also what makes for better clinical sites (sheer volume, number of faculty) or better research (more money, number of publications). It might be easier to have an operational definition of what best to you might be and go from there.

Right now, the best program is the one that accepts me. If I'm fortunate to have the choice of schools, I'm looking at board scores and match lists.
 
MaximusD said:
Chicago is the center of the osteopathic medical world. CCOM is the best midwestern school for long-term career opportunities. Chicago has a larger hospital network, with many more teaching hospitals in the area. Chicago is a more culturally-rich area than Des Moines.

I fail to see how DMU > CCOM.... There are just a lot of DMU cheerleaders on SDN.
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Culturally rich shouldn't be a factor for picking CCOM. I've seen plenty of DMU and CCOM, and just for you applicants out there...know that CCOM isn't IN chicago.

Chicago may be more culturally rich and much much bigger, but DMU is literally 1-2 miles from downtown Des Moines, while CCOM is in a SUBURB and is a good 30-40 minute drive (depending on the insanity of Chicagoland drivers) from downtown, "cultural", Chicago.

In addition, Chicago may have 29842 hospitals, but CCOM is competing with what...4-5 large medical schools in chicago alone for clinical spots, while DMU is one of two medical schools in the ENTIRE STATE of Iowa.

CCOM IS a great school, and was tied for 2nd on my list, but I got tired of their Dean trying to sell the city to us instead of the school.

My two cents
 
NjD00 said:
:thumbup:

I refute that PCOM is the best DO school.

You could probably say top 5 and definitely top 10, based on various categories, but there is not one best school. As nearly EVERYONE points out, different schools are best in different categories for different people.

Plus, a lot of people say that the school they attend or went to is best, so take it with a grain of salt when someone from PCOM says PCOM is best. (even though JPH is correct 95% of the time on objective questions:thumbup:)
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My personal top 10:

1. Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
2. Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University
3. Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
4. New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Of The New York Institute of Technology
5. University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey School of Osteopathic Medicine
6.(T) Des Moines UniversityCollege of Osteopathic Medicine
6.(T) Ohio University College of Osteopathic Medicine
8. Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
9. A.T. Still University Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
 
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Dr JPH said:
My personal top 10:

1. Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
2. Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University
3. Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
4. New York College of Osteopathic Medicine Of The New York Institute of Technology
5. University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey School of Osteopathic Medicine
6.(T) Des Moines UniversityCollege of Osteopathic Medicine
6.(T) Ohio University College of Osteopathic Medicine
8. Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
9. A.T. Still University Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine
10.(T) Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
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This list makes a whole lot of sense to me. It is kind of a bummer though that a lot of the schools listed have a strong instate preference, and I am not in any of the states.
 
JaggerPlate said:
This list makes a whole lot of sense to me. It is kind of a bummer though that a lot of the schools listed have a strong instate preference, and I am not in any of the states.
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This is a list made by one guys perception...what makes the 4th school better than the 6th school..or how about the 2nd vs. 3rd...it gives a good general sense but nothing completely accurate beyond that. Yes, JPH is a resident and has some experience, but if you ask another resident or even an atteding and they will come up with a different list...
 
Pansit said:
This is a list made by one guys perception...what makes the 4th school better than the 6th school..or how about the 2nd vs. 3rd...it gives a good general sense but nothing completely accurate beyond that. Yes, JPH is a resident and has some experience, but if you ask another resident or even an atteding and they will come up with a different list...
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Like you said ... perception. It is my point of view that JPH really knows what he is talking about, and therefore I trust his perception. Plus, what he really goes off of is age of school, and connections with big hospitals/universities. The list is good though.
 
Do I claim to have the 100% correct answer? No.

But I have had the unique pleasure of working with students from almost every DO school in the country...at least the ones where the paint on the walls are dry.

I also have many schools represented in my residency program.

Now, the simple truth is the INDIVIDUAL has more to do with his or her own success as a physician than the school you attend BUT attending one of the better schools can certainly make your climb to the top much much easier.

Here is my reasoning behind the way I ranked the schools...and to say there was no bias would be foolish.

Size, Age, Prestige, Location - Larger, older, better known, university affiliated and larger market schools come first. Why? Simply because when a program director sees one of those schools on his desk he will consider it more highly.

Post Graduate Education - you need to offer residencies for your graduates, plain and simple. And those residencies MUST be at the top of the osteopathic world. To say that XCOM is the best school yet their IM, FP, Surgery, etc programs are far from the most competitive is ridiculous. You NEED to have strong GME programs in place or it will affect you undergrad.

Rotations. Same as above. Diversity and reputation of the hospitals where your students and residents rotate.

Match List. A lengthy match list of people in second tier programs is fine...it may not look bad, but compare it to other schools. Sure...every school has a diamond in the rough, but you need to look at things across the board.


Those are just a few examples.

Now, people on here will try to convince you that ALL or MOST schools are created equal. That is a flawed and completely ignorant view.

Do you think that Residency Program Directors think that these schools are equal? No god damn way. Talk to them...I have.

To think that all 23+ DO schools give you the same opportunity and experience is like saying dating a fat girl is as rewarding as dating the prom queen. It sounds politically correct, but you know in your own head youre thinking differently.
 
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Dr JPH said:
Do I claim to have the 100% correct answer? No.

But I have had the unique pleasure of working with students from almost every DO school in the country...at least the ones where the paint on the walls are dry.

I also have many schools represented in my residency program.

Now, the simple truth is the INDIVIDUAL has more to do with his or her own success as a physician than the school you attend BUT attending one of the better schools can certainly make your climb to the top much much easier.

Here is my reasoning behind the way I ranked the schools...and to say there was no bias would be foolish.

Size, Age, Prestige, Location - Larger, older, better known, university affiliated and larger market schools come first. Why? Simply because when a program director sees one of those schools on his desk he will consider it more highly.

Post Graduate Education - you need to offer residencies for your graduates, plain and simple. And those residencies MUST be at the top of the osteopathic world. To say that XCOM is the best school yet their IM, FP, Surgery, etc programs are far from the most competitive is ridiculous. You NEED to have strong GME programs in place or it will affect you undergrad.

Rotations. Same as above. Diversity and reputation of the hospitals where your students and residents rotate.

Match List. A lengthy match list of people in second tier programs is fine...it may not look bad, but compare it to other schools. Sure...every school has a diamond in the rough, but you need to look at things across the board.


Those are just a few examples.

Now, people on here will try to convince you that ALL or MOST schools are created equal. That is a flawed and completely ignorant view.

Do you think that Residency Program Directors think that these schools are equal? No god damn way. Talk to them...I have.

To think that all 23+ DO schools give you the same opportunity and experience is like saying dating a fat girl is as rewarding as dating the prom queen. It sounds politically correct, but you know in your own head youre thinking differently.
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so are you saying that attending one of the top 10 schools on your list would suffice any DO residency program director (meaning they will not view a graduate from them as unequal (in a general sense), like you said in the previous post)...because like I said, the rank of those schools are interchangeable, but the general sense is that they are the top tier DO schools.
 
Dr JPH said:
To think that all 23+ DO schools give you the same opportunity and experience is like saying dating a fat girl is as rewarding as dating the prom queen. It sounds politically correct, but you know in your own head youre thinking differently.
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To tie in another thread, are you calling RVU a fat girl?
 
Pansit said:
because like I said, the rank of those schools are interchangeable
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Not necessarily. In YOUR mind perhaps, but you arent the one accepting or denying applicants for residencies.

PDs will look first at: the DO schools they feel are the best, the absolute best applicant in the pool regardless of where they went to school, or the school they went to.

So unless you are one of the top applicants in the pool that year OR you are lucky enough to go to the school where the PD went to, it definitely helps to have attended one of the better known schools.
 
Dr JPH said:
PDs will look first at: the DO schools they feel are the best, the absolute best applicant in the pool regardless of where they went to school, or the school they went to.

So unless you are one of the top applicants in the pool that year OR you are lucky enough to go to the school where the PD went to, it definitely helps to have attended one of the better known schools.
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:thumbup: true, for osteopathic residencies.

but if you are trying to get an allopathic one, it really matters much, much less. DO=DO for the vast majority of allo PDs; it's up to you to prove you can hack it their world by playing their game - taking the USMLEs and doing well, spending your electives at university insitutions, and getting strong letters from those rotations. unless your school has primary rotation sites at academic institutions (which some may have), these "rankings" don't have too much effect on getting an allopathic residency.
 
Mista Suprane said:
:thumbup: true, for osteopathic residencies.

but if you are trying to get an allopathic one, it really matters much, much less. DO=DO for the vast majority of allo PDs; it's up to you to prove you can hack it their world by playing their game - taking the USMLEs and doing well, spending your electives at university insitutions, and getting strong letters from those rotations. unless your school has primary rotation sites at academic institutions (which some may have), these "rankings" don't have too much effect on getting an allopathic residency.
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What if youre applying for an Allo spot in Philadelphia? You better believe the allopathic schools in Philly (there are 4) know PCOM. We rotate at the same hospitals and PCOM grads are all over Philadelphia (Jeff, Temple, Penn, Hahneman) in residencies.

So to them does DO = DO? Im not so sure.

Programs are going to take people they are familiar with. Being an MD applying to an allopathic program automatically makes you somewhat familiar. If you are a DO you better make sure you come from a place that allows you an opportunity to build that familiarity through core and elective rotations.

Another benefit is the alumni base. Its hard for a program director to make a claim that a DO student is less qualified for a residency spot when his partner(s) are DOs from the same school. Again, this is the case in Philadelphia with many programs.
 
Dr JPH said:
What if youre applying for an Allo spot in Philadelphia? You better believe the allopathic schools in Philly (there are 4) know PCOM. We rotate at the same hospitals and PCOM grads are all over Philadelphia (Jeff, Temple, Penn, Hahneman) in residencies.
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This factor alone would put PCOM at the top of my list. Never knew they rotated through those hospitals, which is quite an excellent oppurtunity.:thumbup:
 
Tired said:
Your analogy is more apt than you realize. You and I went after something competitive, so the name actually did play a role, for better or worse. On the other hand, if all we wanted was a community IM program . . .
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True. I dont think people gunning for a community IM, EM, FP program have much use in saying how their school is equal to other schools.

Now...if you want a "lifestyle" or surgical specialty and you better make sure that you either went to the right school OR are the best applicant from your school.

Making a case that you can "get to the same place" coming from Pikeville, LECOM or VCOM as you can coming from PCOM, NYCOM or MSU is easy, but the reality of the situation would demonstrate otherwise.
 
Kuba said:
I don't think there is a better school for derm than NSU
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I'm assuming because nice beaches = melanoma? Or is it because Kirby from Dr. 90210 went there? :laugh:
 
Kuba said:
I don't think there is a better school for derm than NSU
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It seems that way. I am very interested in NSU, but I don't know if being from CA would hurt my chances there.
 
Care to enlighten me as to why NSUCOM is a derm school? I know they are affiliated with a couple of hospitals in Florida with derm residencies... but I just checked their match lists from 05-07, none of them had a match into derm. Possibly the students who want derm went for a TY, but out of all 3 years, only one landed TY at one of those Florida hospitals with the derm spots.

So, why exactly is NSUCOM the "derm school,"?
 
Billy Sexcrime said:
Care to enlighten me as to why NSUCOM is a derm school? I know they are affiliated with a couple of hospitals in Florida with derm residencies... but I just checked their match lists from 05-07, none of them had a match into derm. Possibly the students who want derm went for a TY, but out of all 3 years, only one landed TY at one of those Florida hospitals with the derm spots.

So, why exactly is NSUCOM the "derm school,"?
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I was under the impression that derm residencies began as PGY2, meaning that everyone in one (whether they are linked or not) would need to complete a prelim or transitional year first. Most schools (NSUCOM included) don't list reasons for, or where students are going after transitional years. For all we know (highly unlikely) the majority of those transitional students could be shooting for derm after it is done, or are already linked to a derm program. I don't really have any evidence that NSUCOM is a derm school, but I have heard the same thing before. (Disclaimer: I am a pre-med, everything I say is opinion and could probably be correct from med students and residents.)
 
Billy Sexcrime said:
Care to enlighten me as to why NSUCOM is a derm school? I know they are affiliated with a couple of hospitals in Florida with derm residencies... but I just checked their match lists from 05-07, none of them had a match into derm. Possibly the students who want derm went for a TY, but out of all 3 years, only one landed TY at one of those Florida hospitals with the derm spots.

So, why exactly is NSUCOM the "derm school,"?
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Derm is PGY-2 and beyond. Nova only lists internship locations in their match lists.
 
Kuba said:
Derm is PGY-2 and beyond. Nova only lists internship locations in their match lists.
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Do you have any idea of how many people from NSUCOM want to match derm (MD or DO) and are able to??
 
JaggerPlate said:
Do you have any idea of how many people from NSUCOM want to match derm (MD or DO) and are able to??
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No clue. But NSU has 26ish derm spots and the only other school that compares is MSU with 24ish. Compare to PCOM's 9 spots. NSU grads have a better chance of matching NSU residency spots.
 
Dr JPH said:
What if youre applying for an Allo spot in Philadelphia? You better believe the allopathic schools in Philly (there are 4) know PCOM. We rotate at the same hospitals
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rotating at einstein, lankenau, frankford (the community affiliates of jefferson) for your core rotations, with jeff students, doesn't land you a spot at jefferson university hospital. same with UPMC-mckeesport,shadyside. sure, there may be some PCOM students in ACADEMIC (read: not community hopsital) residencies in philadelphia, but that's because they spent their electives at the university hopsitals, which any DO student can choose to do.

DO still equals DO. and even if we say that your specific example for philadelphia may hold some water, going to PCOM doesn't help you at the multitude of other allopathic university residencies across the country.

If you are a DO you better make sure you come from a place that allows you an opportunity to build that familiarity through core and elective rotations.
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BTW, almost all of your affiliate hospitals in philadelphia (where you can do core rotations) are ALSO core rotation sites for LECOM. many of my classmates spent the entirity of their 3rd and 4th years at einstein, lankenau, and frankford.
 
Kuba said:
No clue. But NSU has 26ish derm spots and the only other school that compares is MSU with 24ish. Compare to PCOM's 9 spots. NSU grads have a better chance of matching NSU residency spots.
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Are these 26 PGY2 spots, or 24 spots for 2,3 and 4? Also, are they all connected with NSU?? If so, that is very impressive. You weren't a resident of Florida when applying were you?
 
JaggerPlate said:
Are these 26 PGY2 spots, or 24 spots for 2,3 and 4? Also, are they all connected with NSU?? If so, that is very impressive. You weren't a resident of Florida when applying were you?
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No, they are total spots. And yes, they are all part of the NSU GME. I am from CT.
 
Kuba said:
No, they are total spots. And yes, they are all part of the NSU GME. I am from CT.
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That's awesome you were accepted!! They have like an 8% acceptance rate for OOS students. Did you do anything special to get accepted there? I am very interested in derm (among other things), and I would love to know if there is anything I can do (I'm from CA) to have a better chance there. I love Flordia.
 
But they had to spend their first two years in Bootcamp Erie :p

Are you really putting LECOM vs. PCOM up for a real debate? I know students who went to LECOM who are more than apt to be physicians... don't misunderstand me... but the reality is that PCOM has 1) a larger alumni base 2) a longer history 3) an established reputation 4) is in close proximity to large academic hospitals and 5) shares rotations with Jeff, Penn, Drexel, and Temple students... You can't argue that the average LECOM student is going to have more exposure to these settings than the average PCOM student. I'm sure that some choose to do their core roations PLUS their electives in philly hospitals, but it is the exception and not the norm.

It would be ridiculous to say otherwise.

Again, LECOM is a fine school, but it's no PCOM, IMO.

Mista Suprane said:
rotating at einstein, lankenau, frankford (the community affiliates of jefferson) for your core rotations, with jeff students, doesn't land you a spot at jefferson university hospital. same with UPMC-mckeesport,shadyside. sure, there may be some PCOM students in ACADEMIC (read: not community hopsital) residencies in philadelphia, but that's because they spent their electives at the university hopsitals, which any DO student can choose to do.

DO still equals DO. and even if we say that your specific example for philadelphia may hold some water, going to PCOM doesn't help you at the multitude of other allopathic university residencies across the country.



BTW, almost all of your affiliate hospitals in philadelphia (where you can do core rotations) are ALSO core rotation sites for LECOM. many of my classmates spent the entirity of their 3rd and 4th years at einstein, lankenau, and frankford.
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Kuba said:
Derm is PGY-2 and beyond. Nova only lists internship locations in their match lists.
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Interesting. Could be a decent amount of rads residents as well, in that case. A decent amount of schools list where grads go for PGY-1 and PGY-2 concurrently, unless they have to match again during their TY.
 
It's amazing the two PCOM students have PCOM perched at the top of their list. It's almost like...it's subjective...or something. :laugh:
 
Dr JPH said:
Try looking at Texas the way the rest of the country does.
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With envy?? Jealous of our certainty that there is the Republic of Texas and then there are other "lesser" states?
 
StrengthDoc said:
With envy?? Jealous of our certainty that there is the Republic of Texas and then there are other "lesser" states?
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Not quite. Although if that's what you guys think, I'll add "delusional," to a list of words that describe what non-Texans think of Texans.
 
Funny. There's a Bud Light commercial: Mr. Way Too Proud of Texas Guy. There are definitely folks taking it too far, but it's hard to beat the quality education and facilities down here.

My initial point about TCOM stands. It's a good school with a combination of some of the highest admission standards and lowest tuition in the country. Not to mention home to the National Osteopathic Research Center. These should place TCOM as a very good school for Texas residents and at least stay on the radar of OOS applicants.
 
Mr. Way Too Proud of Texas Guy is the best bud light commercial there is. I think its only played in TX though.

The only person I know like that is my stepdad. Interestingly enough, he grew up in Boston and NYC, went to college at UPenn, and lived in Miami after that, before moving to TX. But he picked up the Texas pride thing immediately, and turned the volume way up. His accent is much thicker than mine, and I've lived here since I was 3.
 
That also reminds me of one time when I was bartending... This older couple came into my bar, both dressed like Marty McFly from Back To The Future 3. I wondered what the deal was, and I talked to them for a little while. It turned out they were from England, and on a vacation. They were under the impression that they were dressed appropriately to fit in here. They were really nice, and I bought them a few rounds. I still laugh when I think of them.
 
They play the commercial in NE and I laugh every time I see it.
 
Sucks, never heard it on any NY/NJ/CT radio stations or seen it on TV. I didn't know the Bud commercials are different by region. I wonder if any of the Mr. So-and-so commercials we get back East are lacking out West...
 
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