Biden Out of Race

[rowsdower88]

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Nikki Haley voters PAC announces support for Kamala Harris

A PAC of Nikki Haley voters announced their support for Kamala Harris' presidential bid on Sunday after Biden announced he was dropping out of this year's race.

www.newsweek.com

"A coalition of former Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley voters pledged their support for Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris' presidential bid on Sunday, hours after President Joe Biden announced that he was dropping out..."

Haley voters PAC now for Harris? Doesn't seem like a psy op as their bonafides include using over $1M on the Haley campaign.

What is happening? Somebody get me out of my positive vibes echo chamber.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

im gonna report you to the moderator for hurting my feelings. oh wait...

go ahead punk, make my day

 

[Onefellswoop87]

everything is a joke to him. you sound like a snowflake.

Schrödinger’s joke - he was serious, unless someone didn’t take him seriously, then he was clearly joking

 

[DocMcCoy]

Not surprisingly, Cheatle steps down

Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle resigns over Trump shooting outrage

Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle was criticized for her agency's failure to prevent the attempted assassination of Donald Trump at a campaign rally.

www.cnbc.com

 

[chessknt]

The democrats aren't even pretending to care about the voters anymore. It's really sad what this country has come to.

What? Because they didn't have a circus for the Republicans or pick apart, was that the will of the people? What people?

 

[Splenda88]

This is the foreign policy contrast the MAGAs think is winning

Trump is not a serious person.

 

[triggermaster]

The people chose Biden-Harris, it's telling that you ignore that fact. Biden stepped off the ticket and endorsed Harris. Harris rapidly gained broad party support. The only people I really see complaining about this are conservatives. And, let's be honest, anyone voting for Trump has a tenuous commitment to democratic norms. Everyone knows Biden could die at any time. Harris has always been a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

The rationale for things playing out this way makes a lot of sense. Practically speaking, any serious primary challenger KNOWS they're going to have an uphill battle after the Biden endorsement. They know they had to make the decision to run against Harris THAT DAY. They weighed the likelihood of beating her as low and saw positives with staying out of a "mini-primary", one of those positives could be a potential VP nomination.

No. Dropping out and having an actual primary season with a variety of candidates to be weighed by the voters would have made a lot of sense. The voters chose Biden with no other options and certainly weren’t won over by Harris riding his coattails.

 

[GassYous]

What? Because they didn't have a circus for the Republicans or pick apart, was that the will of the people? What people?

The voters who vote for candidates during the primary obviously
This is just blatantly being pushed in front of the electorate

 

[rowsdower88]

No. Dropping out and having an actual primary season with a variety of candidates to be weighed by the voters would have made a lot of sense. The voter chosen Biden with no options and certainly weren’t won over by Harris riding his coattails.

Can't have a "primary season with a variety of candidates" if no one else wants to get into the race against Harris. That is entirely possible for Newsom or Manchin or Michelle Obama to do if they wanted to.

Sour grapes that the Democratic party is actually united behind a candidate.

I understand the conservative frustration at the lack of disarray. It surprises me too!

 

[nimbus]

The voters who vote for candidates during the primary obviously
This is just blatantly being pushed in front of the electorate

It’s a matter of being pragmatic. Not much time til the election. It’ll be a close race. The machine needs to get to work. The nominee doesn’t matter as much as beating Trump. I wasn’t too enthusiastic about Biden or Harris but that’s who we get.

 

[nimbus]

No. Dropping out and having an actual primary season with a variety of candidates to be weighed by the voters would have made a lot of sense. The voter chosen Biden with no options and certainly weren’t won over by Harris riding his coattails.

Whatever it takes to win. As mentioned above, all the potential contenders are supporting Harris. Down ballots are on the line too.

 

[GassYous]

Can't have a "primary season with a variety of candidates" if no one else wants to get into the race against Harris. That is entirely possible for Newsom or Manchin or Michelle Obama to do if they wanted to.

Sour grapes that the Democratic party is actually united behind a candidate.

I understand the conservative frustration at the lack of disarray. It surprises me too!

No one wants to be president riiiight
How is it sour grapes? There are 100 days left. It's a complete subversion of democracy. What's the point of voting if the candidate is preselected for you? How does the nominee not matter? She was chosen to bring certain populations to biden's side.

 

[rowsdower88]

No one wants to be president riiiight
How is it sour grapes? There are 100 days left. It's a complete subversion of democracy. What's the point of voting if the candidate is preselected for you? How does the nominee not matter? She was chosen to bring certain populations to biden's side.

You can listen to Pritzker, Newsom, Manchin, M Obama, and whoever else the pundit class said was in the running if Biden dropped out. They have all endorsed Harris. No one can FORCE the person you think should be President to run. If you want to see anyone in particular on the Dem ticket, nows your chance, better give them a call and tell them to get in the race.

The only serious people in the party, to my knowledge, who haven't yet endorsed Harris are Obama, Pelosi and Jeffries.

What is the subversion if the party unified around a candidate? There's 100 days UNTIL THE ELECTION, but at least to be on the Ohio ballot you need to have a candidate selected by the end of August. That's not much time and Democrats have had object permanence for the past 48 hours at least so they can see the writing is on the wall and that there is no reasonable alternative to Harris at this point. (The Ohio deadline issues are why the Dems are having a virtual roll call which was set up before Biden's poor debate performance.)

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/with-biden-out-will-ohio-see-a-democratic-candidate-before-ballot-deadline/

 

[nimbus]

You can listen to Pritzker, Newsom, Manchin, M Obama, and whoever else the pundit class said was in the running if Biden dropped out. They have all endorsed Harris. No one can FORCE the person you think should be President to run. If you want to see anyone in particular on the Dem ticket, nows your chance, better give them a call and tell them to get in the race.

The only serious people in the party, to my knowledge, who haven't yet endorsed Harris are Obama, Pelosi and Jeffries.

What is the subversion if the party unified around a candidate? There's 100 days UNTIL THE ELECTION, but at least to be on the Ohio ballot you need to have a candidate selected by the end of August. That's not much time and Democrats have had object permanence for the past 48 hours at least so they can see the writing is on the wall and that there is no reasonable alternative to Harris at this point. (The Ohio deadline issues are why the Dems are having a virtual roll call which was set up before Biden's poor debate performance.)

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/with-biden-out-will-ohio-see-a-democratic-candidate-before-ballot-deadline/

Pelosi endorsed Harris yesterday.

Schumer and Jeffries just endorsed Harris.


Obama is on record saying he doesn’t want his thumb on the scale. He’ll support whoever is the official nominee.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Biden wasn’t going to finish his second term; it was going to be Kamala Harris as President anyway if Biden won. I’m fine with Harris as the Democrat nominee. In fact, if Whitmer or Newsom was the nominee that would be more of an issue in terms of the voters and the funds raised to date.

Harris Vs Trump. Let the people decide.

 

[Splenda88]

Biden wasn’t going to finish his second term; it was going to be Kamala Harris as President anyway if Biden won. I’m fine with Harris as the Democrat nominee. In fact, if Whitmer or Newsom was the nominee that would be more of an issue in terms of the voters and the funds raised to date.

Harris Vs Trump. Let the people decide.

Still not good enough for me.

A poor example of a human being vs. someone who is liberal on social issues.

Why can't it be Brian Kemp or Ron DeSantis?

 

[Onefellswoop87]

Still not good enough for me.

A poor example of a human being vs. someone who is liberal on social issues.

Why can't it be Brian Kemp or Ron DeSantis?

What are you asking?
Why can’t Kemp or DeSantis run on the Democrat ticket? I’m just gonna let you try to figure that one out.
Or why can’t DeSantis be the GOP nominee? He tried.

 

[Southpaw]

No one wants to be president riiiight
How is it sour grapes? There are 100 days left. It's a complete subversion of democracy. What's the point of voting if the candidate is preselected for you? How does the nominee not matter? She was chosen to bring certain populations to biden's side.

Creating a false set of electors to remain in power, after getting voted out, is a subversion of democracy. Asking the vice President not to certify votes is a subversion of democracy. Asking governors to find votes is a subversion of democracy. Staying on a ticket with no opponents isn’t a subversion, nor anything remotely close. I would’ve been fine with an open convention. As it is, no one has voiced any desire to run against her. Everyone is falling in line behind her. She’s the natural nominee everyone was willing to accept when they voted Biden/Harris.

If Trump withdraws will Republicans put up someone who actually ran against him in the primaries or JD Vance? Of course it’ll be Vance.

 

[GassYous]

Creating a false set of electors to remain in power, after getting voted out, is a subversion of democracy. Asking the vice President not to certify votes is a subversion of democracy. Asking governors to find votes is a subversion of democracy. Staying on a ticket with no opponents isn’t a subversion, nor anything remotely close. I would’ve been fine with an open convention. As it is, no one has voiced any desire to run against her. Everyone is falling in line behind her. She’s the natural nominee everyone was willing to accept when they voted Biden/Harris.

If Trump withdraws will Republicans put up someone who actually ran against him in the primaries or JD Vance? Of course it’ll be Vance.

I totally agree with the first part. I think both nominees are illegitimate. But why would you think that Vance would automatically be the nominee? I didn't vote for Harris and it's a mockery of the electorate to pretend like they were going to leave it to the voters when those with the real power decide who they wanted to install as the figurehead.

 

[Splenda88]

What are you asking?
Why can’t Kemp or DeSantis run on the Democrat ticket? I’m just gonna let you try to figure that one out.
Or why can’t DeSantis be the GOP nominee? He tried.

Repub ticket

DeSantis should have been the republican nominee

 

[rowsdower88]

I totally agree with the first part. I think both nominees are illegitimate. But why would you think that Vance would automatically be the nominee? I didn't vote for Harris and it's a mockery of the electorate to pretend like they were going to leave it to the voters when those with the real power decide who they wanted to install as the figurehead.

Hold on...

You think it's not only reasonable but NECESSARY to redo the entire primary process again with all 50 states voting on different candidates? With about a month to go before the Dem roll call vote and Ohio ballot deadline? Otherwise any candidate that has been chosen by a party's delegates is illegitimate to you?

You're being unreasonable and you need to recognize that most people think what you're asking is unreasonable.

There aren't the procedures in place in each state to redo the primaries like you want if a primary winner drops out. Each primary is administered by state governments and the idea you could coordinate the sort of primary election you're envisioning just couldn't happen on the timeframe you're suggesting without millions of dollars and the manpower to make it happen. I'm an pro-institution guy and even I think the government bureaucracy is too much to attempt this idea.

 

[triggermaster]

Republicans have never helped the working class.

Tax cuts for corporations do nothing to help workers. Businesses hire based upon demand for their products. If demand is high, they hire. If demand is low, they lay off. Taxes on their profits make no difference.

On the other hand, tax cuts for the masses (aka consumers) will driven demand, but Republicans don't generally deliver on that.

Want to reduce welfare? Then increase wages

If you are a worker, it's far better to be in a blue state than a red state in terms of worker protections and benefits.

The only reason corporations leave blue states is because wages are higher and land is more expensive.

Yeah. Wages would increase if you cut off the supply of cheap foreign labor.

 

[GassYous]

Hold on...

You think it's not only reasonable but NECESSARY to redo the entire primary process again with all 50 states voting on different candidates? With about a month to go before the Dem roll call vote and Ohio ballot deadline? Otherwise any candidate that has been chosen by a party's delegates is illegitimate to you?

You're being unreasonable and you need to recognize that most people think what you're asking is unreasonable.

There aren't the procedures in place in each state to redo the primaries like you want if a primary winner drops out. Each primary is administered by state governments and the idea you could coordinate the sort of primary election you're envisioning just couldn't happen on the timeframe you're suggesting without millions of dollars and the manpower to make it happen. I'm an pro-institution guy and even I think the government bureaucracy is too much to attempt this idea.

It's not my fault or my problem that theres a month left. A month should be plenty of time to vote when we can do the whole election in a day. I thought the people elect their leaders, not the elites.

 

[triggermaster]

Can't have a "primary season with a variety of candidates" if no one else wants to get into the race against Harris. That is entirely possible for Newsom or Manchin or Michelle Obama to do if they wanted to.

Sour grapes that the Democratic party is actually united behind a candidate.

I understand the conservative frustration at the lack of disarray. It surprises me too!

No. I favor a legitimate constitutional republic, but elections aren’t legitimate if a corrupt political party chooses the candidate. It’s terrible that we have a two party system. It’s worse when we don’t even get 2 primary-elected options.

 

[Southpaw]

It's not my fault or my problem that theres a month left. A month should be plenty of time to vote when we can do the whole election in a day. I thought the people elect their leaders, not the elites.

The people elected Biden/Harris, knowing if biden stepped down or couldn’t fulfill his duties it’d be Harris. Asking for another primary just isn’t going to happen.

If you want some sort of haphazard primary process to occur within the next month whereby voters pick a candidate, do you really think it’d be anyone other than Harris? No one has voiced a desire to run against her. Not even pick-a-side Manchin.

 

[rowsdower88]

It's not my fault or my problem that theres a month left. A month should be plenty of time to vote when we can do the whole election in a day. I thought the people elect their leaders, not the elites.

Ok. So you don't see any irreconcilable problems with coordinating 50 states to hold a second primary (something they've never done before) for a single party (that already has a presumptive nominee) all within a timeframe of weeks.

Let's say you and I wanted to attempt this - what if some Republican led states didn't want to go along with it? There would be no laws compelling them to redo a primary election for an opposing political party. The FEC isn't going to help here. There would be literally nothing motivating them to spend money financing the election you believe is necessary. Could the primary still be considered legitimate if that happened? There are a thousand things that would almost surely go wrong with what you're suggesting.

No. I favor a legitimate constitutional republic, but elections aren’t legitimate if a corrupt political party chooses the candidate. It’s terrible that we have a two party system. It’s worse when we don’t even get 2 primary-elected options.

Sure. So what is your suggested solution here? Do you think we need to coordinate a nationwide election again like Gassyous wants?

Having a Presidential primary winner drop out is bad. It shouldn't happen. The question is: can you still have a legitimate party nominee without redoing nationwide primaries.

For the majority of our country's history, the delegates from each state never really had to listen to each states primary voters. There's nothing in the Constitution about Presidential primary elections. The binding Presidential primary system is in fact a relatively new invention, previously party members exclusively chose their best candidate (similar to the party system in Great Britain and elsewhere). It seems like you're saying those are all illegitimate.

I would say it's a false binary to declare Harris selection as legitimate or illegitimate. You could say it is "less democratic", but it's still legal and certainly historically legitimate within living memory.

United States presidential primary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[vector2]

No. I favor a legitimate constitutional republic, but elections aren’t legitimate if a corrupt political party chooses the candidate.

lol save us the crocodile tears. maga just panicking because they don't get to run against the weakest candidate anymore.

they don't give two shts about democracy, legitimacy, or following norms. if they did their nominee wouldn't be the twice-impeached, four-time indicted convicted felon who tried to overturn the last election by putting up fraudulent electors to subvert the will of the people

 

[UscGhost]

Yeah. Wages would increase if you cut off the supply of cheap foreign labor.

Correct. A labor shortage would increase wages (which has happened over the last few years).
But that would drive up inflation, hamburgers would be $20 at McDonald's and Republicans constantly say minimum wage increases will cost jobs. So which is it?

How much do you think you would need to pay an American citizen to convince them to pick fruit in 105 degree weather in Bakersfield?

And that's the problem with the Republican party. They identify problems, criticize those who try to solve them, but don't come up with constructive solutions.

 

[nimbus]

I thought the people elect their leaders, not the elites.

This part is wrong.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Repub ticket

DeSantis should have been the republican nominee

Nope. To authoritarian and weirdly anti-business.

 

[psycho-matic]

Correct. A labor shortage would increase wages (which has happened over the last few years).
But that would drive up inflation, hamburgers would be $20 at McDonald's and Republicans constantly say minimum wage increases will cost jobs. So which is it?

How much do you think you would need to pay an American citizen to convince them to pick fruit in 105 degree weather in Bakersfield?

And that's the problem with the Republican party. They identify problems, criticize those who try to solve them, but don't come up with constructive solutions.

Not arguing against your position, but there's been studies showing McDonald's could pay it's employees $15 an hour with very minimal menu price adjustments. Stating it would result in a $20 hamburger is gross hyperbole.

 

[vector2]

Not arguing against your position, but there's been studies showing McDonald's could pay it's employees $15 an hour with very minimal price menu price adjustments. Stating it would result in a $20 hamburger is gross hyperbole.

How bout some of these big boys give even the entry level employees a little bit of stock, too

 

[MirrorTodd]

Why are the republicans on this board acting like the little bully kid in the basketball court saying "Oh oh, foul, foul, foul, you can't do that. Do over, I get the ball and a free shot!"?

 

[Gern Blansten]

I think the issue is that Biden was not a great candidate for a second term from the outset and most suspect that insiders knew that. They recently pushed for him to drop out. Had that push come much earlier, a real primary could have occurred and the people's true choice could have been selected. The process now is that Harris is the only real option because Biden waited too late to withdraw as a candidate.

Any really viable candidate is not going to throw their name in the hat for this cycle. Most candidates get one shot as their party's nominee and, if they lose, they are typically cast aside for the next election cycle (Trump getting a second shot is an anomaly, I believe). So, most viable democrats would see this as their one and only shot and it is a very flawed shot, because they would be coming in at the eleventh hour to try and salvage a campaign that has seen a whole lot of problems and they would be trying to clean up all of Biden and Harris's issues. The campaign would be on terms that this new candidate did not set and they would be at a huge financial and planning disadvantage. If I am someone who worked my way up the ladder for years and wanted an eventual shot at the big show, I would not be willing to throw it all away to join what could be a sinking ship. If Biden was well ahead in the polls and projected to win easily, it may be worth the risk taking over that campaign. But, as it stands now, I think the more viable candidates are wise to stand down. However, I truly believe that this is Kamala's one and only chance. In another election cycle, she would likely not make it to the top of the ticket. So, the reality is, she is the candidate with everything to gain and nothing to lose. So, she is smart to shoot her shot now. It may work out for her. The rest are wise to sit this one out and plan for 2028. That is why I think no one else is throwing their hat in the ring.

 

[UscGhost]

Not arguing against your position, but there's been studies showing McDonald's could pay it's employees $15 an hour with very minimal price menu price adjustments. Stating it would result in a $20 hamburger is gross hyperbole.

I don't disagree. I am all for increasing minimum wage.

But Republicans have to pick their position, as they are often contradictory.

Dems
Minimum wage increase?

Rep
No, it will increase labor expense, cost jobs and increase inflation

Dems
Ok, then how do we find workers for manual labor jobs that American don't want to do

Rep
......no answer

Dems
Ok. How about we Increase labor supply by allowing migrant workers?

Repub
No, they are all criminals who don't pay taxes

Dems
Ok, let's screen them, give them a path to citizenship so they can pay takes

Rep
Thats illegal because we blocked that legislation

Dems
Ok, so how do we solved the problems of labor shortages and low wages

Rep
Cut welfare?

Dems
Yea, but the young folks who want to join the work force are stuck at home watching their kids because you banned abortion, restricted birth control and childcare is far too expensive. Minimum wage is too low so these folks can't pay for childcare

Rep
What if we cut corporate taxes?

Dems
Oh ok, so companies will voluntarily give that money to their workers? Because if so, wages would have increased already with your last tax cuts

Rep
Hmm. Well let's just keep cutting them anyways

Dems
Why don't we increase minimum wage (so that workers are incentived to get off welfare on their own), this provides more money to the working class who are the consumers that drive the economy (increase GDP and profits).

We screen and allow migrant workers, give them status that rewards their contributions and allows them to pay taxes (solves labor shortage). Additionally, immigrants have lower crime rates and less utilization of social services than their American counterparts

Provide contraception and women's health services so that the young folks can work
The immigrants who aren't part of the system will leave on their own because there is enough legitimate workers so there are no jobs available for them

Rep
Guns and DEI!!!

Dems
(Sigh)

 

[marr65]

Make Presidents Young Again. LFG!!!!!

 

[nimbus]

Just to go off topic for a quick second, (R)s don’t like DEI or Affirmative Action as it may place someone who is less qualified in position by skewing the weight of certain qualities in a specific direction?

But why do Rs need the electoral college then? Weighting some votes, to make sure the little guy is heard, more than other so that even if you lose the popular vote, you can still become President. I think there is potential for Trump to lose the popular vote for the third time.

Yep. Electoral college is Affirmative Action for small states. There is a place for it.

 

[triggermaster]

lol save us the crocodile tears. maga just panicking because they don't get to run against the weakest candidate anymore.

they don't give two shts about democracy, legitimacy, or following norms. if they did their nominee wouldn't be the twice-impeached, four-time indicted convicted felon who tried to overturn the last election by putting up fraudulent electors to subvert the will of the people

If you say MAGA no matter who you are responding to, you get to ignore the complete lack of democracy taking place. You should care.

 

[vector2]

If you say MAGA no matter who you are responding to, you get to ignore the complete lack of democracy taking place. You should care.

Yeah, except for the part there's no violation of democracy taking place.

1. The 14 million primary voters did not have material information when they voted for him. The idea that he would've won the primary if he had had a debate like that before they voted for him is laughable.

2. At this point in the race, Biden and only Biden is able to release his delegates. If he wanted to be belligerent amount it, no one could've forced him out. He chose to release them. But even if he didn't, the DNC rules - which everyone agreed to - have a good conscience clause. Which rules were y'all following when the fraudulent elector scheme was being executed in AZ, GA, WI, MI, and PA?

3. You and the other conservatives are not making this argument in good faith. Ipso facto, the GOP is, itself, running the most anti-democracy candidate out there.

 

[triggermaster]

Yeah, except for the part there's no violation of democracy taking place.

1. The 14 million primary voters did not have material information when they voted for him. The idea that he would've won the primary if he had had a debate like that before they voted for him is laughable.

2. At this point in the race, Biden and only Biden is able to release his delegates. If he wanted to be belligerent amount it, no one could've forced him out. He chose to release them. But even if he didn't, the DNC rules - which everyone agreed to - have a good conscience clause. Which rules were y'all following when the fraudulent elector scheme was being executed in AZ, GA, WI, MI, and PA?

3. You and the other conservatives are not making this argument in good faith. Ipso facto, the GOP is, itself, running the most anti-democracy candidate out there.

You are kidding yourself. If the DNC was for democracy not personal power, they wouldn’t have lied about Biden’s dementia and there would have been a primary season with a variety of candidates. Biden would t have won and neither would Harris. The Dems hid the truth until it was theoretically too late to let the voters choose their candidate.

I’m not a conservative. I’m an old school liberal. Not an identity politics, woke authoritarian democrat.

 

[Splenda88]

Nope. To authoritarian and weirdly anti-business.

He is not.

He was just foolishly trying to outdo Trump

 

[Splenda88]

Correct. A labor shortage would increase wages (which has happened over the last few years).
But that would drive up inflation, hamburgers would be $20 at McDonald's and Republicans constantly say minimum wage increases will cost jobs. So which is it?

How much do you think you would need to pay an American citizen to convince them to pick fruit in 105 degree weather in Bakersfield?

And that's the problem with the Republican party. They identify problems, criticize those who try to solve them, but don't come up with constructive solutions.

Based on my experience spending time in FL, Americans would not pick up fruit in 105 degree even if they were getting paid $25/hr.

 

[rowsdower88]

He is not.

He was just foolishly trying to outdo Trump

You aren't disputing that the bills he signed into law are authoritarian (making it easy to ban books in public schools and the "Don't Say Gay" laws undeniably restrict civil liberties), you are just saying you know what's in the guy's heart and he never really wanted to do that stuff?

That's a pretty weak defense IMO.

 

[vector2]

You are kidding yourself. If the DNC was for democracy not personal power, they wouldn’t have lied about Biden’s dementia and there would have been a primary season with a variety of candidates. Biden would t have won and neither would Harris. The Dems hid the truth until it was theoretically too late to let the voters choose their candidate.

I’m not a conservative. I’m an old school liberal. Not an identity politics, woke authoritarian democrat.

You sure are buying in hard to the right-wing conspiracies for someone who's supposedly an old school liberal. And you honestly sound like you don't have a clue how the DNC is structured, plus you sound blissfully unaware of the fact that there's no secret DNC party bosses in a smoky backroom who can just decide who is going to be the candidate.

There are multiple groups at play here, including Biden, his inner circle, Congressional dem leadership, the DNC chair, elected DNC delegates, DNC super delegates, and the voters. All of whom have competing interests. Blathering on about a grand conspiracy from "The Dems" (!!!) - which somehow involves purposefully letting a guy with dementia be the nominee until gddamned July only to have to do a mad dash to put in a slightly better but still weak candidate at the last minute - makes you sound like a certifiable loon.




Btw, this you, old school "liberal"? And even if you mean classically small-l liberal in the John Locke sense, you sure sound 10x more MAGA than libertarian.

​

"I would vote for anyone who will slash the size of government. If that’s not an option I’ll vote for whoever will....maximize deportations."​

​

" I genuinely think Biden’s open border policy is worse than Trump lying about chanting ‘Lock Her Up’. Anyway, I agree. Lock up Trump, but also lock up Hillary."​

​

" I see the Biden/Majorkas border as treason."​

​

"Not to mention Hillary campaign funding the Steele Dossier and getting only a fine. No charges. No trial. That’s dramatically worse than paying a ***** to keep her mouth shut."​

​

"You can actually think Trump is terrible and still consider him the lesser of two evils. Biden/Harris/Majorkas/Garland… it doesn’t get much worse than that."​

​

 

[Southpaw]

He is not.

He was just foolishly trying to outdo Trump

He had zero appeal to the MAGA base. His smile/laugh was always super awkward and he kept wearing obvious inserts in his boots to make himself appear taller. His campaign was strange. You’re right, he tried to out-Trump Trump, as opposed to appearing authentic with something original to say (like Nikki Haley). Unfortunately for Nikki, the Republican Party is now the cowardly MAGA party and she never had a chance.

 

[triggermaster]

You sure are buying in hard to the right-wing conspiracies for someone who's supposedly an old school liberal. And you honestly sound like you don't have a clue how the DNC is structured, plus you sound blissfully unaware of the fact that there's no secret DNC party bosses in a smoky backroom who can just decide who is going to be the candidate.

There are multiple groups at play here, including Biden, his inner circle, Congressional dem leadership, the DNC chair, elected DNC delegates, DNC super delegates, and the voters. All of whom have competing interests. Blathering on about a grand conspiracy from "The Dems" (!!!) - which somehow involves purposefully letting a guy with dementia be the nominee until gddamned July only to have to do a mad dash to put in a slightly better but still weak candidate at the last minute - makes you sound like a certifiable loon.




Btw, this you, old school "liberal"? And even if you mean classically small-l liberal in the John Locke sense, you sure sound 10x more MAGA than libertarian.

​

"I would vote for anyone who will slash the size of government. If that’s not an option I’ll vote for whoever will....maximize deportations."​

​

" I genuinely think Biden’s open border policy is worse than Trump lying about chanting ‘Lock Her Up’. Anyway, I agree. Lock up Trump, but also lock up Hillary."​

​

" I see the Biden/Majorkas border as treason."​

​

"Not to mention Hillary campaign funding the Steele Dossier and getting only a fine. No charges. No trial. That’s dramatically worse than paying a ***** to keep her mouth shut."​

​

"You can actually think Trump is terrible and still consider him the lesser of two evils. Biden/Harris/Majorkas/Garland… it doesn’t get much worse than that."​

​

What’s a right wing conspiracy? That’s what has actually happened! Voters were not able to choose their candidate. It’s bad enough that opponents defer to an incumbent, but when the incumbent isn’t fit for office there should be an actual election.

Yeah, old school liberal: Rule of law. Individualism. Equality of Opportunity. Constitutionally limited government.

None of those quotes are contrary to old school liberalism.

 

[vector2]

What’s a right wing conspiracy? That’s what has actually happened! Voters were not able to choose their candidate. It’s bad enough that opponents defer to an incumbent, but when the incumbent isn’t fit for office there should be an actual election.

The right-wing conspiracy is that "The Dems," as some big cohesive group which you think exists but actually doesn't, purposefully hid Biden's dementia only to remove him at probably the most inconvenient time possible. And really, what is even your argument here? Biden has voluntarily stepped down. There is no feasible primary process at this point. You want to make him run non-consensually?

But again, you don't really care. Because you and the rest of the Fox News crew are not arguing in good faith. You don't get to cry about the will of the people being subverted when you're voting for the guy who tried to illegally overturn the last election which he lost.

Yeah, old school liberal: Rule of law.

LMAO, pulling the lever for trump while cheering the rule of law. Irony is dead.


He's also the antithesis of classical liberalism, considering he's huge on

1. Protectionist trade policies like tariffs and trade wars
2. Limiting legal immigration along with illegal immigration
3. Significantly expanding the powers of the executive
4. Expanding the already over-militarized police state
5. Continued criminalization of illegal drugs
6. Denying the right to abortion
7. Sucking off authoritarian leaders like his life depends on it

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

He is not.

He was just foolishly trying to outdo Trump

He absolutely is:

Refused to allow cruise ships in Florida if they required COVID vaccines for passengers. I always thought the GOP was supposed to be pro-business rights. You know, like allowing businesses to discriminate against LGBT customers.

Punished Disney for having an official position on LGBT rights. Plenty of other businesses in Florida have almost identical special districts like Disney but for some reason none of those groups got their special districts taken over by the state. That seems interesting.

Laws about how social media companies are allowed to behave in Florida. Free speech only apparently matters when its speech you agree with.

Weakened Sunshine laws to benefit himself. Prior to him Florida had some of the strongest laws about stuff like this.

Changed that law that required elected official in Florida to resign before campaigning for a different elected job. Entirely so he could run for President.

Tried to make it easier to sue news companies for defamation.

Ron DeSantis is all in—on creating an American autocracy

His plan to outflank Trump would scale up the calculated system of repression he designed in Florida.

www.motherjones.com

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What’s a right wing conspiracy? That’s what has actually happened! Voters were not able to choose their candidate. It’s bad enough that opponents defer to an incumbent, but when the incumbent isn’t fit for office there should be an actual election.

Yeah, old school liberal: Rule of law. Individualism. Equality of Opportunity. Constitutionally limited government.

None of those quotes are contrary to old school liberalism.

They voted for Biden/Harris. Biden stepped aside. That's how VPs work.

Are you mad that Truman, LBJ, and Ford became president?

 

[triggermaster]

They voted for Biden/Harris. Biden stepped aside. That's how VPs work.

Are you mad that Truman, LBJ, and Ford became president?

If he resigned the presidency and she became president it would be one thing. This is completely different.
Democrats should complain about the election being fixed too.