Biden Out of Race

Started by DirtDocMD
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pgg said:
I'm not annoyed at you. 🙂

Lia Thomas was nominated for NCAA Woman Of The Year - that's the kind of lie I'm talking about, the kind of emperor's clothing no one should have to pretend to see.

There's a whole wardrobe of that out there, and I'm annoyed at the expectation that I pretend too. (Again, that's not you.)

I would argue that ALL athletes from high school up who are good enough to win events or get bumped out of finals by the (very rare) m-to-f trans athlete is enough of an outlier ("elite" enough, if you will) to skew the data and render irrelevant the studies showing average people trans people are just average.

It wouldn't take an elite male or female or trans athlete to beat me or my wife at most any sport. How the average trans person's hormone levels and muscle mass compare to mine or hers is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand: whether trans athletes who went through male puberty before transitioning have an unfair advantage.
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I didn't know about Lia Thomas. Never heard of her. I don't keep up with sports. I enjoy watching a football game in-person but lose interest on a TV screen. I think American football won't be around within a couple of decades. I think it will experience decline.

Studies of non-athlete transgender people wouldn't be applicable, I agree. I think studies would have to focus on athletes for the data to be meaningful.

Regarding your high school athlete example, the devil is in the details. If a trans woman swimmer placed 4th place in a competition, beat by 3 cis women, could one conclude that her going through male puberty gave her an meaningful advantage? How do you know she just wasn't a better swimmer than the woman who placed #5? It would be a different situation if a trans athlete was consistently outperforming most of her opponents.
 
arkgal said:
I didn't know about Lia Thomas. Never heard of her. I don't keep up with sports. I enjoy watching a football game in-person but lose interest on a TV screen. I think American football won't be around within a couple of decades. I think it will experience decline.

Studies of non-athlete transgender people wouldn't be applicable, I agree. I think studies would have to focus on athletes for the data to be meaningful.

Regarding your high school athlete example, the devil is in the details. If a trans woman swimmer placed 4th place in a competition, beat by 3 cis women, could one conclude that her going through male puberty gave her an meaningful advantage? How do you know she just wasn't a better swimmer than the woman who placed #5? It would be a different situation if a trans athlete was consistently outperforming most of her opponents.
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The idea that a male athlete makes any demand to compete against female athletes and cares about this at all is rooted in one single thing.

Narcissism. Not science, not fairness, not civil rights. All nonsense distractions.

It’s just narcissistic narcissism from a narcissist.

“Waaaahhhhh, I say I’m different and I want the rule everyone has followed for 70 years to be different for meeeeeeeeeeeee. Make it work for meeeeee, the 0.00001% of people. If you don’t let me then I’ll be saaaaaad and you’re a bigot!”

End of story. Anything around this conversation is just equivocating the ultimate point. I’m so glad this issue has been DOA since a couple years ago. It really was one of the worst stupid things liberals have ever pushed. We’re now seeing that none of them ever believed this crap. It’s the most obnoxious special interest group of all time demanding everyone play pretend with them.

“Woke 1 was crazy”
 
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Account1 said:
The idea that a male athlete makes any demand to compete against female athletes and cares about this at all is rooted in one single thing.

Narcissism. Not science, not fairness, not civil rights. All nonsense distractions.

It’s just narcissistic narcissism from a narcissist.

“Waaaahhhhh, I say I’m different and I want the rule everyone has followed for 70 years to be different for meeeeeeeeeeeee. Make it work for meeeeee, the 0.00001% of people. If you don’t let me then I’ll be saaaaaad and you’re a bigot!”

End of story. Anything around this conversation is just equivocating the ultimate point. I’m so glad this issue has been DOA since a couple years ago. It really was one of the worst stupid things liberals have ever pushed. We’re now seeing that none of them ever believed this crap. It’s the most obnoxious special interest group of all time demanding everyone play pretend with them.

“Woke 1 was crazy”
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I think it’s likely that the VAST majority of people, liberal and conservative, agree that trans women shouldn’t be in women’s sports.

On one hand I agree the democrats should take a stand on this issue from a strategy standpoint, but on the other, Fox News will just invent the next “non-story” that democrats need to defend against.

The Lia Thomas debacle was nearly completely invented and propagated by Fox News (I read Fox News regularly as an antidote to my liberal bias), and it’s an NCAA issue, not an elected official issue. And it’s a INCREDIBLY fringe issue that affects almost no one. Democrats hit that whack a mole and Fox News will just invent a new one. It’s kind of a losing strategy.
 
Account1 said:
The idea that a male athlete makes any demand to compete against female athletes and cares about this at all is rooted in one single thing.

Narcissism. Not science, not fairness, not civil rights. All nonsense distractions.

It’s just narcissistic narcissism from a narcissist.

“Waaaahhhhh, I say I’m different and I want the rule everyone has followed for 70 years to be different for meeeeeeeeeeeee. Make it work for meeeeee, the 0.00001% of people. If you don’t let me then I’ll be saaaaaad and you’re a bigot!”

End of story. Anything around this conversation is just equivocating the ultimate point. I’m so glad this issue has been DOA since a couple years ago. It really was one of the worst stupid things liberals have ever pushed. We’re now seeing that none of them ever believed this crap. It’s the most obnoxious special interest group of all time demanding everyone play pretend with them.

“Woke 1 was crazy”
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Are you gay? This is a serious question.

You seem to be obsessed about gay/transgender issues.
 
Splenda88 said:
Are you gay? This is a serious question.

You seem to be obsessed about gay/transgender issues.
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Are you brain damaged? Serious question.

Your iq seems sub 80.

You define obsession really stupidly too. I’ve had the same opinion on the trans sports issue for 5 years when I first formed it, knowing it was absolute bull**** from the outset.

The fact that now every major liberal politician admits they never believed it now just vindicates everything everyone has said against it.

Also, as an fyi, it’s pretty homophobic to ask that question of someone who questions trans ideology. They are unrelated as phenomena completely. To make light of it in that way is ****ing insulting to gay people.

One is about sexuality. The other is about self image. One is immutable. One is not.
 
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skougess said:
I think it’s likely that the VAST majority of people, liberal and conservative, agree that trans women shouldn’t be in women’s sports.

On one hand I agree the democrats should take a stand on this issue from a strategy standpoint, but on the other, Fox News will just invent the next “non-story” that democrats need to defend against.

The Lia Thomas debacle was nearly completely invented and propagated by Fox News (I read Fox News regularly as an antidote to my liberal bias), and it’s an NCAA issue, not an elected official issue. And it’s a INCREDIBLY fringe issue that affects almost no one. Democrats hit that whack a mole and Fox News will just invent a new one. It’s kind of a losing strategy.
Click to expand...

The Lia Thomas issue was created by one person.

Lia Thomas.

Could’ve just competed against other males, but didn’t. No one wouldve cared in that case.
 
Splenda88 said:
Are you gay? This is a serious question.

You seem to be obsessed about gay/transgender issues.
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1789311303836.gif
 
Account1 said:
One is about sexuality. The other is about self image. One is immutable. One is not.
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It wasn't that long ago that ordinary conservatives believed that being gay was a choose-able self image lifestyle thing. The sort of thing that finding Jesus or a couple weeks at a special camp could fix.

You're speaking as if the opposite has always been self-evident, and that the not-liberal fraction of this country has always been on the right side of that issue.
 
pgg said:
It wasn't that long ago that ordinary conservatives believed that being gay was a choose-able self image lifestyle thing. The sort of thing that finding Jesus or a couple weeks at a special camp could fix.

You're speaking as if the opposite has always been self-evident, and that the not-liberal fraction of this country has always been on the right side of that issue.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, something someone else believed 30 years ago is relevant? Guess that’s those people’s problem.

These are completely different issues and populations. Not related AT ALL.
 
arkgal said:
I didn't know about Lia Thomas. Never heard of her. I don't keep up with sports. I enjoy watching a football game in-person but lose interest on a TV screen.
Click to expand...

There aren't a lot of things in this 500+ page thread that have truly flabbergasted me and blown my mind, but an actual trans person who's interested enough in politics to participate in this thread not knowing who Lia Thomas is .... poof, mind blown.

🙂

arkgal said:
I think American football won't be around within a couple of decades. I think it will experience decline.
Click to expand...

Could be. Fewer parents are letting their kids play, for fear of injuries.

Boxing used to be a MAJOR sport. Now it's on the fringe. I don't get the sense that boxing was a significant part of the US sporting conscious since the Mike Tyson era. I mean that guy was a cultural icon that even got himself an animated Scooby Doo spinoff.

To some degree UFC and mixed martial arts have filled that gap left by boxing's decline.

The NFL though - easily the biggest league in the USA, by a giant margin, with no near-term signs of decline.

Interesting side topic.

arkgal said:
Regarding your high school athlete example, the devil is in the details. If a trans woman swimmer placed 4th place in a competition, beat by 3 cis women, could one conclude that her going through male puberty gave her an meaningful advantage?
Click to expand...

Maybe we should ask the 5th place finisher who was bumped back a spot.

Or the 9th place swimmer, who was eliminated from the final heat of 8 swimmers and lost her chance to compete for a medal.

arkgal said:
How do you know she just wasn't a better swimmer than the woman who placed #5? It would be a different situation if a trans athlete was consistently outperforming most of her opponents.
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You mean like Lia Thomas?
 
Account1 said:
Oh wow, something someone else believed 30 years ago is relevant? Guess that’s those people’s problem.

These are completely different issues and populations. Not related AT ALL.
Click to expand...

If you don't think history is relevant, particularly recent history, where the people involved are still alive and still voting ... I guess there's not much for us to discuss along those lines.

Unless you think we're living in a simulation and the current state of the world and everyone's brains was conjured into existence half an hour ago, how we got here absolutely matters.
 
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Splenda88 said:
I think he is gay.

I have seen that kind of obsession from one my good friends and later find out he was a closeted gay.
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Yeah. IDK. I haven't been much on this thread until sour pants started posting his unprovoked, unhinged angry rhetoric.
I would venture towards something in the DSM-5. Like zero introspection and talk about the definition of narcissist.
Feel bad for him honestly. He sounds and acts like a miserable human being.
 
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sevoflurane said:
Yeah. IDK. I haven't been much on this thread until sour pants started posting his unprovoked, unhinged angry rhetoric.
I would venture towards something in the DSM-5. Like zero introspection and talk about the definition of narcissist.
Feel bad for him honestly. He sounds and acts like a miserable human being.
Click to expand...

No one could’ve ever predicted that pickleball was your sacred cow and that slighting it would turn you into the biggest wuss on the board.
 
Account1 said:
Oh wow, something someone else believed 30 years ago is relevant? Guess that’s those people’s problem.

These are completely different issues and populations. Not related AT ALL.
Click to expand...
Thats because most of those people are still alive, still believe that and still send kids to those places
 
Account1 said:
Are you brain damaged? Serious question.

Your iq seems sub 80.

You define obsession really stupidly too. I’ve had the same opinion on the trans sports issue for 5 years when I first formed it, knowing it was absolute bull**** from the outset.

The fact that now every major liberal politician admits they never believed it now just vindicates everything everyone has said against it.

Also, as an fyi, it’s pretty homophobic to ask that question of someone who questions trans ideology. They are unrelated as phenomena completely. To make light of it in that way is ****ing insulting to gay people.

One is about sexuality. The other is about self image. One is immutable. One is not.
Click to expand...
Glad you are still obsessed with trans folks after fox news invented the issue for you 5 years ago

Who says propaganda doesnt work...
 
Account1 said:
Said the impotent pickleball “athlete”
Click to expand...
You come off as the most offended/triggered person in this entire thread, which is a shame because you otherwise come here with interesting debate even when I disagree with you wholesale on multiple issues.

You’d be far more effective if you flailed about less. I’m sure this will just elicit another personal attack though.
 
Account1 said:
No one could’ve ever predicted that pickleball was your sacred cow and that slighting it would turn you into the biggest wuss on the board.
Click to expand...
You are so hyper focused on pickleball it's hilarious. Is that really all you can come back to?
You interject yourself into a peaceful thread with "pickleball isn't a real sport". Do you not see the pathology in that comment. Nobody was talking to you Champ. You are an angry person.
Likewise, nobody is coming on here supporting a thing you say.
I'm done wasting time with you, just try not to be such an ass-hole to other posters on here. We are mostly a peaceful bunch.
You are by yourself.
You're lost. Seek some help.
 
Account1 said:
Good to know that your level of discourse has devolved to “I don’t like his delivery, therefore he’s gay.”

Real good man. Really helping the gay community with **** like that.
Click to expand...
I don't remember much about my psych block but I think what you are doing is called repression. It's ok to come out. Don't fight it. The obsession is too much.

You can go back and look at my posts and I am probably the first person in this thread who said that I am against gay marriage/adoption and transgender issues, but gay/transgender issues do not consume my life as they seem to do you. By the way, I am a republican albeit not MAGA.
 
sevoflurane said:
You are so hyper focused on pickleball it's hilarious. Is that really all you can come back to?
You interject yourself into a thread with "pickleball isn't a real sport". Do you not see the pathology in that comment. Nobody was talking to you Champ. You are an angry person.
Likewise, nobody is coming on here supporting a thing you say.
I'm done wasting time with you, just try not to be such an ass-hole to other posters on here. We are mostly a peaceful bunch.
You are by yourself.
You're lost. Seek some help.
Click to expand...

Ignore button is right there dude. Any time you wanna buzz off I’m game.

Maybe go spend some time with your large family. That’s protective against being a wounded little wuss.
 
skougess said:
I think it’s likely that the VAST majority of people, liberal and conservative, agree that trans women shouldn’t be in women’s sports.

On one hand I agree the democrats should take a stand on this issue from a strategy standpoint, but on the other, Fox News will just invent the next “non-story” that democrats need to defend against.

The Lia Thomas debacle was nearly completely invented and propagated by Fox News (I read Fox News regularly as an antidote to my liberal bias), and it’s an NCAA issue, not an elected official issue. And it’s a INCREDIBLY fringe issue that affects almost no one. Democrats hit that whack a mole and Fox News will just invent a new one. It’s kind of a losing strategy.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Thomas followed the NCAA rules which existed at the time.
 
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pgg said:
There aren't a lot of things in this 500+ page thread that have truly flabbergasted me and blown my mind, but an actual trans person who's interested enough in politics to participate in this thread not knowing who Lia Thomas is .... poof, mind blown.

🙂



Could be. Fewer parents are letting their kids play, for fear of injuries.

Boxing used to be a MAJOR sport. Now it's on the fringe. I don't get the sense that boxing was a significant part of the US sporting conscious since the Mike Tyson era. I mean that guy was a cultural icon that even got himself an animated Scooby Doo spinoff.

To some degree UFC and mixed martial arts have filled that gap left by boxing's decline.

The NFL though - easily the biggest league in the USA, by a giant margin, with no near-term signs of decline.

Interesting side topic.



Maybe we should ask the 5th place finisher who was bumped back a spot.

Or the 9th place swimmer, who was eliminated from the final heat of 8 swimmers and lost her chance to compete for a medal.



You mean like Lia Thomas?
Click to expand...
A recent study concluded that 25% of NFL players that died between 2016 and 2021 had CTE. 25%! The really of this is why I think football will decline.
 
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Account1 said:
Woke 1 was crazy.

I’m voting democratic this election too.
Click to expand...
Haha sure.

Interesting phenomenon though. Before the election, all of the racists and homophobes were proud to vote maga and said it was just the first in a wave of conservative victories

Now the maga are switching teams...
 
UscGhost said:
Haha sure.

Interesting phenomenon though. Before the election, all of the racists and homophobes were proud to vote maga and said it was just the first in a wave of conservative victories

Now the maga are switching teams...
Click to expand...

Hate to break to you, but liberals are just as racist as conservatives

You literally believe that it’s a good idea to not require that minorities take tests because they aren’t good at them. Instead propping them up to fail at university and end up with thousands of worthless debt and years of wasted time. We discussed this at length of this very thread.
 
Splenda88 said:
I don't remember much about my psych block but I think what you are doing is called repression. It's ok to come out. Don't fight it. The obsession is too much.

You can go back and look at my posts and I am probably the first person in this thread who said that I am against gay marriage/adoption and transgender issues, but gay/transgender issues do not consume my life as they seem to do you. By the way, I am a republican albeit not MAGA.
Click to expand...

I’ll set aside this admission of overt homophobia on your part and your belief that gay people do not carry the same rights to marriage and adoption as straight people. I think it’s still worth chatting with you here

Having said that, I originally became interested in the trans issue because I learned that it was being pushed on children. Never really cared about it before that, to be honest and now that that’s off the table don’t care about it much now. That’s why I don’t post about it much anymore since that part of the trans social movement has been taken down.

The athlete debate was a weird sideshow to that. It was simply a slap in the face emperors new clothes thing that resonates with anyone with a functioning brain cell or two. Of course Dylan mulvaney was everywhere, so I didn’t exactly go looking for his “experience as a woman” as a part of my media diet, that was just plastered everywhere.

Do you want to be trans as an adult? By all means, do it. I wish it was on your own dime, but ok we cover a lot of things that don’t work in America. When it comes to teaching kids about gender identity at age 5 and destroying their normal puberty it just struck a nerve with me and many other people.

I checked out of the other trans thread when the ban on treatments for children in Tennessee was upheld in the Supreme Court. Victory has been achieved over the movements worst excesses and their incredibly stupid logic was laid bare permanently in the Supreme Court record. House of reps also passed a ban with support of 3 democrats, so the issue is largely decided and not worth repeating now.
 
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CopaceticOne said:
Apparently you think that things from thousands of years ago anre absolutely relevant and absolute, so….
Click to expand...

Oh wow, good one. Someone else’s historic beliefs on an issue resemble mine in some way on another unrelated issue. So now things that are historical but related to something I’m talking about are no longer relevant!

You’re really reaching to dunk on me dude. Watch some stand up and read some Dave Barry and come back with a better try.
 
skougess said:
You come off as the most offended/triggered person in this entire thread, which is a shame because you otherwise come here with interesting debate even when I disagree with you wholesale on multiple issues.

You’d be far more effective if you flailed about less. I’m sure this will just elicit another personal attack though.
Click to expand...

Half of this thread is histrionics about Trump and the end of democracy. You think anyone here including me thinks this is a place to change minds effectively? Get a grip. It’s where a few doctors blow off steam, voice opinions, and argue. Not an Oxford debate society.
 
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Account1 said:
Oh wow, good one. Someone else’s historic beliefs on an issue resemble mine in some way on another unrelated issue. So now things that are historical but related to something I’m talking about are no longer relevant!

You’re really reaching to dunk on me dude. Watch some stand up and read some Dave Barry and come back with a better try.
Click to expand...
Well, you were also the one that also said the Duggars are more moral than most people.

So 30 years ago we can ignore, but 2000 we can’t?
 
CopaceticOne said:
Well, you were also the one that also said the Duggars are more moral than most people.

So 30 years ago we can ignore, but 2000 we can’t?
Click to expand...

I said they’re moral on continuing a functional civilization, which they totally are, as our fertility rates are non functional as is. I may have said they’re more moral than I am on that point! Maybe they’re less moral on obeying traffic laws.

Multiple dimensions of morality, imagine that! Almost like you could be a better distance runner than I am without being a better overall athlete!

Did I say that they’re overall more moral people than say, smart guys like you? Maybe you can quote me on it and we can check.
 
Account1 said:
I said they’re moral on continuing a functional civilization, which they totally are, as our fertility rates are non functional as is. I may have said they’re more moral than I am on that point! Maybe they’re less moral on obeying traffic laws.

Multiple dimensions of morality, imagine that! Almost like you could be a better distance runner than I am without being a better overall athlete!

Did I say that they’re overall more moral people than say, smart guys like you? Maybe you can quote me on it and we can check.
Click to expand...
You implied it. You said people that have more children are more moral. You never specified it was only one part of a person's morality.
 
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pgg said:
There aren't a lot of things in this 500+ page thread that have truly flabbergasted me and blown my mind, but an actual trans person who's interested enough in politics to participate in this thread not knowing who Lia Thomas is .... poof, mind blown.

🙂



Could be. Fewer parents are letting their kids play, for fear of injuries.

Boxing used to be a MAJOR sport. Now it's on the fringe. I don't get the sense that boxing was a significant part of the US sporting conscious since the Mike Tyson era. I mean that guy was a cultural icon that even got himself an animated Scooby Doo spinoff.

To some degree UFC and mixed martial arts have filled that gap left by boxing's decline.

The NFL though - easily the biggest league in the USA, by a giant margin, with no near-term signs of decline.

Interesting side topic.



Maybe we should ask the 5th place finisher who was bumped back a spot.

Or the 9th place swimmer, who was eliminated from the final heat of 8 swimmers and lost her chance to compete for a medal.



You mean like Lia Thomas?
Click to expand...
It looks like the Lia Thomas controversy happened in 2022. I vaguely recall something on the news about a trans athlete swimmer but don't remember details. At that time, I was living in denial about being trans. I started my transition about 2 years ago.
 
Gern Blansten said:
But you knew who it was. That’s like a hockey player telling you they’ve never heard of Wayne Gretzky. Everyone, especially a trans person, knows the big three. The tucked swimmer, the high-heeled former decathlete, and the lipstick wearing luggage stealer.
Click to expand...
I really didn't know. I read the wiki about her after her name was mentioned on this thread. And I have no idea who else you're talking about.
 
Gern Blansten said:
But you knew who it was. That’s like a hockey player telling you they’ve never heard of Wayne Gretzky. Everyone, especially a trans person, knows the big three. The tucked swimmer, the high-heeled former decathlete, and the lipstick wearing luggage stealer.
Click to expand...
To be fair, if I didn’t read Fox News, I would never have known who Lia Thomas was. I’m sure other news organizations covered it, and I’m sure it made the rounds on right wing social media, but it was only a daily top story for Fox News.

Most liberals probably hear the screeching about Lia Thomas from right and genuinely respond with, “Who?” It’s kind of a non-story.
 
skougess said:
To be fair, if I didn’t read Fox News, I would never have known who Lia Thomas was. I’m sure other news organizations covered it, and I’m sure it made the rounds on right wing social media, but it was only a daily top story for Fox News.

Most liberals probably hear the screeching about Lia Thomas from right and genuinely respond with, “Who?” It’s kind of a non-story.
Click to expand...

If you watch FoxNews it’s very likely you know more about the trans community than the actual trans community.
 
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