Biden Out of Race

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DocMcCoy said:
Most of this is buried in this thread already. In short, the sentiment has been there since the start. I don’t know why we have to set set the bar at “democratic leader”, but here…

www.bbc.com

US lawmaker Chappelle-Nadal's Trump assassination post investigated - BBC News

The Missouri state senator said on Facebook she hoped the US president would be assassinated.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

…and after two assassination attempts, we have the former head of the FBI posting “8647”. Harmless joke, right?

How about “famous” people?

Examples you can find by digging through political threads even here?

But, even more concerning was the Rutgers study. Whole lot of people think Trump should be assassinated. No surprise it’s the same people that laugh at antivaxxers dying of Covid.

www.aol.com

‘Assassination Culture’: Poll Shows About Half Of Liberals Believe Killing Trump, Musk Justified

A new survey finds an “assassination culture” growing on the American left since the attempted killing of President Donald Trump in July 2024. Data released Monday from the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI) found “48% and 55%” of “left of center” people “at least somewhat justifying...
www.aol.com www.aol.com


Trump aside, that’s pretty scary to me, I don’t know how it’s waved off as a nothing burger by some here.
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That democratic congresswoman is insane...

The James Comey thing is overblown. I dont think he was calling for Trump's assassination. But MAGA people like yourself might come to a different conclusion.

I am not surprised that half of the dems would cheer with Trump being assassinated, just like half of the republicans would have been cheering if Biden were assassinated when he was president. The country is really divided.
 
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DocMcCoy said:
Most of this is buried in this thread already. In short, the sentiment has been there since the start. I don’t know why we have to set set the bar at “democratic leader”, but here…

www.bbc.com

US lawmaker Chappelle-Nadal's Trump assassination post investigated - BBC News

The Missouri state senator said on Facebook she hoped the US president would be assassinated.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

…and after two assassination attempts, we have the former head of the FBI posting “8647”. Harmless joke, right?

How about “famous” people?

Examples you can find by digging through political threads even here?

But, even more concerning was the Rutgers study. Whole lot of people think Trump should be assassinated. No surprise it’s the same people that laugh at antivaxxers dying of Covid.

www.aol.com

‘Assassination Culture’: Poll Shows About Half Of Liberals Believe Killing Trump, Musk Justified

A new survey finds an “assassination culture” growing on the American left since the attempted killing of President Donald Trump in July 2024. Data released Monday from the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI) found “48% and 55%” of “left of center” people “at least somewhat justifying...
www.aol.com www.aol.com


Trump aside, that’s pretty scary to me, I don’t know how it’s waved off as a nothing burger by some here.
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I remember that assasination attempt during the campaign. I remember posting on another election thread that I was glad it did not succeed because it would be terrible for our democracy and not how our elections should be decided. Not a single person on this forum disagreed with my post.
 
DocMcCoy said:
Most of this is buried in this thread already. In short, the sentiment has been there since the start. I don’t know why we have to set set the bar at “democratic leader”, but here…

www.bbc.com

US lawmaker Chappelle-Nadal's Trump assassination post investigated - BBC News

The Missouri state senator said on Facebook she hoped the US president would be assassinated.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

…and after two assassination attempts, we have the former head of the FBI posting “8647”. Harmless joke, right?

How about “famous” people?

Examples you can find by digging through political threads even here?

But, even more concerning was the Rutgers study. Whole lot of people think Trump should be assassinated. No surprise it’s the same people that laugh at antivaxxers dying of Covid.

www.aol.com

‘Assassination Culture’: Poll Shows About Half Of Liberals Believe Killing Trump, Musk Justified

A new survey finds an “assassination culture” growing on the American left since the attempted killing of President Donald Trump in July 2024. Data released Monday from the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI) found “48% and 55%” of “left of center” people “at least somewhat justifying...
www.aol.com www.aol.com


Trump aside, that’s pretty scary to me, I don’t know how it’s waved off as a nothing burger by some here.
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Sad times. The worst offenders absurdly scream loudest about Hitler and the Nazis diverting attention from their sick thoughts and actions.
 
DocMcCoy said:
That isn’t the flag of Saudi Arabia they are proudly demonstrating…
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The situation over there isn’t straight forward and US/Israel hands are not clean. I don’t really understand the point of a random picture with a couple masked people at what appears to be an otherwise peaceful protest, unless you’re sending that photo to Trump so he can track those people down and deport them. I’m assuming that was a peaceful protest within US borders. Trying to draw parallels between masked people who wish to conceal their identity and those who want to avoid giving/getting a respiratory virus is really strange. I just don’t understand it.
 
Southpaw said:
The situation over there isn’t straight forward and US/Israel hands are not clean. I don’t really understand the point of a random picture with a couple masked people at what appears to be an otherwise peaceful protest, unless you’re sending that photo to Trump so he can track those people down and deport them. I’m assuming that was a peaceful protest within US borders. Trying to draw parallels between masked people who wish to conceal their identity and those who want to avoid giving/getting a respiratory virus is really strange. I just don’t understand it.
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Ok. I’m not trying to convince you. See what you want to see, but it’s far from a random picture. A “hamas” flag is inherently antisemitic, especially in that setting. There are antisemetic overtones in many of these rallies, some more overt than others. Many Jews don’t feel safe.

The only reason anybody is wearing a mask these days, is because they are up to no good, to the point they are considering banning masks in that setting. There is some irony there concerning the far left protestors.
 
DocMcCoy said:
Ok. I’m not trying to convince you. See what you want to see, but it’s far from a random picture. A “hamas” flag is inherently antisemitic, especially in that setting. There are antisemetic overtones in many of these rallies, some more overt than others. Many Jews don’t feel safe.

The only reason anybody is wearing a mask these days, is because they are up to no good, to the point they are considering banning masks in that setting. There is some irony there concerning the far left protestors.
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You really need to educate yourself on this topic. The US and Israeli governments have propped up Hamas for well over a decade through Qatari support. This includes Netanyahu and both Democrat and Republican US presidents. At the same time we’ve labeled Hamas a terrorist organization (and I believe they are). Does this sound familiar?

Anything but full on ardent support of Israel gets labeled antisemitic. It’s as tired and overused as wokeism. The Hamas attack on 10/7 deserved a response. Any killing of innocent civilians I find inexcusable. Tell me - how many innocent civilians in Gaza should die as part of that response? How many is too many?

Ask yourself why a lot of the maga crowd/Trump voters have turned against Israel. We want out of Ukraine? Why? Tired of spending hundreds of billions on endless pointless wars that have no endpoint and no real solution? What the heck do you think is happening in Gaza?
 
DocMcCoy said:
The only reason anybody is wearing a mask these days, is because they are up to no good, to the point they are considering banning masks in that setting. There is some irony there concerning the far left protestors.
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What setting? The setting of white guys wearing masks and carrying tiki torches shouting ‘we won’t be left behind’ marching in Charlottesville? Or does that setting not count?
 
Southpaw said:
Anything but full on ardent support of Israel gets labeled antisemitic. It’s as tired and overused as wokeism. The Hamas attack on 10/7 deserved a response. Any killing of innocent civilians I find inexcusable. Tell me - how many innocent civilians in Gaza should die as part of that response? How many is too many?
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No. Sorry. There are blatant attacks on Jews happening under the guise of peaceful assembly and protest of the atrocities happening in Gaza. That isn’t ok.


Southpaw said:
Ask yourself why a lot of the maga crowd/Trump voters have turned against Israel. We want out of Ukraine? Why? Tired of spending hundreds of billions on endless pointless wars that have no endpoint and no real solution? What the heck do you think is happening in Gaza?
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All of that can be true, again none of that justifies antisemetic sentiment and attacks on Jews.

Southpaw said:
What setting? The setting of white guys wearing masks and carrying tiki torches shouting ‘we won’t be left behind’ marching in Charlottesville? Or does that setting not count?
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But what about?!?…. It’s not just the right pushing for masks bans in the setting of protests. That is the irony.
 
Southpaw said:
The US and Israeli governments have propped up Hamas for well over a decade through Qatari support.
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Another way to interpret that "propping up" is that Israel and the US and other countries made a good faith effort to work with the government that Palestineans elected for themselves, despite misgivings, because there was no better option. Or would you have preferred invasion and regime change prior to 10/7?

You can't have it both ways. Either we respect the Palestineans' choice of Hamas to be their leaders and representatives to the world, or we don't. Their government and its military attacked Israel on 10/7 and took civilian hostages. The people in Gaza could rise up and oust Hamas. Hamas could surrender. Neighboring Arab countries could take in Gaza refugees (they won't, of course, for good reasons well rooted in history). There are many ways the people who started this war this could end it, today.

Now again, I think Israel's response was strategically unsound. But I don't fault them for leveling the place any more than I fault the allies for leveling Germany and Japan most of a century ago.
 
DocMcCoy said:
No. Sorry. There are blatant attacks on Jews happening under the guise of peaceful assembly and protest of the atrocities happening in Gaza. That isn’t ok.




All of that can be true, again none of that justifies antisemetic sentiment and attacks on Jews.



But what about?!?…. It’s not just the right pushing for masks bans in the setting of protests. That is the irony.
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There’s no irony! I’m calling out the hypocrisy of this admin with their ‘no masks allowed’. It’s only on one side! I on the other hand don’t care who wears a mask or for what!

No one is trying to justify anything! But something isn’t antisemitism just because you say it is! If a Jewish person is harmed at a ‘peaceful’ protest for Gazans, then that’s awful and inexcusable!
 
Southpaw said:
If a Jewish person is harmed at a ‘peaceful’ protest for Gazans, then that’s awful and inexcusable!
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The fact that you can still call it a peaceful protest when people are being harmed is interesting. I recall the "mostly peaceful" protests of BLM when entire blocks of major cities were being burned and destroyed. The term "peaceful protest" has been such a lie propagated by the left. The fact that you don't mind if they all wear masks to protect their anonymity and avoid legal repercussions tracks for you.
 
pgg said:
Another way to interpret that "propping up" is that Israel and the US and other countries made a good faith effort to work with the government that Palestineans elected for themselves, despite misgivings, because there was no better option. Or would you have preferred invasion and regime change prior to 10/7?

You can't have it both ways. Either we respect the Palestineans' choice of Hamas to be their leaders and representatives to the world, or we don't. Their government and its military attacked Israel on 10/7 and took civilian hostages. The people in Gaza could rise up and oust Hamas. Hamas could surrender. Neighboring Arab countries could take in Gaza refugees (they won't, of course, for good reasons well rooted in history). There are many ways the people who started this war this could end it, today.

Now again, I think Israel's response was strategically unsound. But I don't fault them for leveling the place any more than I fault the allies for leveling Germany and Japan most of a century ago.
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I think propping up a representative leadership you label a terrorist organization allows you a lot of leeway when it blows up in your face and you invade the area they represent. I can’t help but wonder what ‘rising up and ousting Hamas’ would look like?

When was the last vote that supported Hamas? 2006? I have no real idea what Gazans want. I imagine right now they feel powerless. They can’t leave an area that’s being constantly bombed, all aid was blocked for months, aid workers were killed, and their representative organization is obviously corrupt and not looking out for their best effort.

Also isn’t Israel’s current plan to take all of Gaza before restructuring? I dunno, the whole situation over there just seems hopeless from a civilian Gazan perspective.
 
By the way @pgg, I know you think there’s something more you could’ve done more to prevent Trump from being elected again. I get that sentiment. I don’t wholly disagree with it. But I do disagree with 99.9% of that sentiment in a post Citizens United US election system and when someone like Elon can dump 260 million into one single election and is still somehow successful at labeling his opponents as ‘elites’. 99.9% of me doesn’t believe there’s a single thing you could do. I think the same for Gazans and Hamas, though the situations are much different.
 
Gern Blansten said:
The fact that you can still call it a peaceful protest when people are being harmed is interesting. I recall the "mostly peaceful" protests of BLM when entire blocks of major cities were being burned and destroyed. The term "peaceful protest" has been such a lie propagated by the left. The fact that you don't mind if they all wear masks to protect their anonymity and avoid legal repercussions tracks for you.
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Um..Jan 6?

I recall the "mostly peaceful" protests of Jan 6 when entire stretches of Capitol Hill were being destroyed, as a mob was breaking on, assaulting police officers and hunting for congressman as they fled for their lives

The term peaceful protests is such a lie propagated by the right

The fact that the president pardoned them to avoid legal repercussions tracks for maga
 
UscGhost said:
Um..Jan 6?

I recall the "mostly peaceful" protests of Jan 6 when entire stretches of Capitol Hill were being destroyed, as a mob was breaking on, assaulting police officers and hunting for congressman as they fled for their lives

The term peaceful protests is such a lie propagated by the right

The fact that the president pardoned them to avoid legal repercussions tracks for maga
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True. Propagated by both sides.
 
Southpaw said:
I think propping up a representative leadership you label a terrorist organization allows you a lot of leeway when it blows up in your face and you invade the area they represent. I can’t help but wonder what ‘rising up and ousting Hamas’ would look like?
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It could look a lot like what the Afghans did when they ousted the government we installed and replaced it with the one they wanted (the Taliban v2.0).

See also: every revolution or coup in the history of ever.

Look, I'm not saying it would be easy, or that success is guaranteed, or that they wouldn't suffer casualties doing so.

I'm saying the elephant in the room is that the Palestineans in Gaza have lacked, and currently lack, the will to remove Hamas. And they're currently suffering because of their leaders' choices. It's not like some stateless actor operating from Gaza without the consent of its government or people launched the 10/7 attack.

Southpaw said:
When was the last vote that supported Hamas? 2006? I have no real idea what Gazans want. I imagine right now they feel powerless. They can’t leave an area that’s being constantly bombed, all aid was blocked for months, aid workers were killed, and their representative organization is obviously corrupt and not looking out for their best effort.
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Yeah, it sounds tough.

Afghanistan being occupied by the USA and other coalition partners for two decades was tough too, but the people there made their desire known. They wanted the Taliban. They made it happen.

Southpaw said:
Also isn’t Israel’s current plan to take all of Gaza before restructuring?
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I'm not sure what Israel's plan is. I think their plan so far has been dumb and counterproductive. I think they've been winging it, running on rage fumes, with no real objective beyond destroying Gaza to the point that it won't be possible for future attacks to be staged from that area.

Again I think it's a dumb plan, but I can't pretend not to understand it. Were Israel to continue razing Gaza after an unconditional surrender by Hamas, I would condemn it. But right now, Hamas keeps fighting and there are still hostages and Gazans haven't decided they've had enough of Hamas. Shrug.

Southpaw said:
I dunno, the whole situation over there just seems hopeless from a civilian Gazan perspective.
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The irony is that hopeless people who have nothing left to lose tend to be the ones most willing to rise up and change things, even at great risk to themselves. That the Gazans haven't done so implies that a lot of them still support Hamas, or see Hamas as their best bet.

I bet the residents of German cities felt pretty hopeless in 1945. Many of them probably didn't even vote for Hitler!
 
Southpaw said:
By the way @pgg, I know you think there’s something more you could’ve done more to prevent Trump from being elected again. I get that sentiment. I don’t wholly disagree with it. But I do disagree with 99.9% of that sentiment in a post Citizens United US election system and when someone like Elon can dump 260 million into one single election and is still somehow successful at labeling his opponents as ‘elites’. 99.9% of me doesn’t believe there’s a single thing you could do. I think the same for Gazans and Hamas, though the situations are much different.
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The broader idea I was pushing there is that I'm an American and although I didn't vote for Trump, he's my president and leader. If there are consequences or comeuppance for Americans because of something he does, I don't expect to somehow benefit from a carve-out immunity to those consequences. I'm not a neutral party. I'm not a bystander. I am part of the machine that pays the taxes and does the work to keep the country moving in the direction he takes us.

At some point everybody's got to pick a side and roll with it.

Trump's a **** but I wish him and the USA well.

Gazans picked a side also, and that side is getting its ass kicked. Maybe they'll get tired of it and try something else someday.
 
DocMcCoy said:
Toting a flag that represents the militant arm of Hamas is as antisemetic as a Nazi flag at an alt-right protest.
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The militant arm of Hamas? They have an army/navy/air force? Hamas is the representative government of the Gazans. Are you saying that their flag is antisemitic? Is Hamas antisemitic? Are all Palestinians living in Gaza or the West Bank antisemitic? Is anything other than absolute full on 100% support of anything and everything Israel does antisemitic? Can anyone just simply not approve of what Israel is doing or actually be for the Palestinian people without being labeled an antisemite?

By the way, what Jewish person was attacked at a protest for Gazan peace?
 
pgg said:
The broader idea I was pushing there is that I'm an American and although I didn't vote for Trump, he's my president and leader. If there are consequences or comeuppance for Americans because of something he does, I don't expect to somehow benefit from a carve-out immunity to those consequences. I'm not a neutral party. I'm not a bystander. I am part of the machine that pays the taxes and does the work to keep the country moving in the direction he takes us.

At some point everybody's got to pick a side and roll with it.

Trump's a **** but I wish him and the USA well.

Gazans picked a side also, and that side is getting its ass kicked. Maybe they'll get tired of it and try something else someday.
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Fair. Agree.
 
Southpaw said:
The militant arm of Hamas? They have an army/navy/air force? Hamas is the representative government of the Gazans. Are you saying that their flag is antisemitic? Is Hamas antisemitic? Are all Palestinians living in Gaza or the West Bank antisemitic? Is anything other than absolute full on 100% support of anything and everything Israel does antisemitic? Can anyone just simply not approve of what Israel is doing or actually be for the Palestinian people without being labeled an antisemite?
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Um. Yes, yes, and yes to the bold.

Not every Palestinian is antisemetic, as not every conservative is a white supremacist. Of course you can disapprove of what Israel is doing and not be an antisemite, in many instances that isn’t what is going on with the protests.
 
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Gern Blansten said:
True. Propagated by both sides.
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While true...

Trump played a far bigger role in inciting/not dissuading the Jan 6 events. Trump and the GOP basically invented the election stealing story (and still propagate it) which led to it and he inspired the events on that day.

BLM protests arose within hours of the George Floyd murder going viral...and led to millions of protests across the US and internationally and led to social reforms but foreign and domestic.

So while violence is and should be condemned. I would hardly find those two social movements comparable in social importance, origin, intent and extent of inspiration/involvement of political leadership
 
Gern Blansten said:
The fact that you can still call it a peaceful protest when people are being harmed is interesting. I recall the "mostly peaceful" protests of BLM when entire blocks of major cities were being burned and destroyed. The term "peaceful protest" has been such a lie propagated by the left. The fact that you don't mind if they all wear masks to protect their anonymity and avoid legal repercussions tracks for you.
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If you're on the left you distort all of your bad actions as good and distort all of the other guys' actions as bad.
It's what you do.
If you want to save 15% or more on car insurance you switch to Geico.
It's what you do.
 
www.politico.com

RFK Jr. threatens to bar government scientists from publishing in leading medical journals

The health secretary said the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association and The Lancet are in bed with pharma.
www.politico.com www.politico.com


Busy day for the Party of Law and Order and free speech. Are we feeling good that an uneducated buffoon is dictating to NEJM that they are corrupt because they publish/peer review pharma trials and threatening to cancel them for it? I guess the pharma company should just publish the data on their website with no peer review in whatever format they want, that would be much better.
 
DocMcCoy said:
Um. Yes, yes, and yes to the bold.

Not every Palestinian is antisemetic, as not every conservative is a white supremacist. Of course you can disapprove of what Israel is doing and not be an antisemite, in many instances that isn’t what is going on with the protests.
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What’s going on with the protests then?
 
Southpaw said:
What’s going on with the protests then?
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No offense, but for someone spouting off on how we should be educated on what’s going on with the situation, there appears to be some gaping holes in your knowledge base.

So we agree, there is a militant arm of Hamas (Al Qassam brigades), that lauds violence against Jews, whose battle flag is green with the Shahada, that was largely responsible for the October 7th attacks, same guys parading around during prisoner exchanges all decked out and geared up. Protestors emulating that at a protest? How’s that anything but anti semetic?

As far as what’s going on with the protests, even my supposed limited knowledge of search engines has no problem with examples. Review the ADL, and CST comments on the topic. Search some headlines. It’s almost like, some people are using the cover of peaceful protests for nefarious purposes! Just like my OP picture would suggest…
 
DocMcCoy said:
No offense, but for someone spouting off on how we should be educated on what’s going on with the situation, there appears to be some gaping holes in your knowledge base.

So we agree, there is a militant arm of Hamas (Al Qassam brigades), that lauds violence against Jews, whose battle flag is green with the Shahada, that was largely responsible for the October 7th attacks, same guys parading around during prisoner exchanges all decked out and geared up. Protestors emulating that at a protest? How’s that anything but anti semetic?

As far as what’s going on with the protests, even my supposed limited knowledge of search engines has no problem with examples. Review the ADL, and CST comments on the topic. Search some headlines. It’s almost like, some people are using the cover of peaceful protests for nefarious purposes! Just like my OP picture would suggest…
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I enjoy learning and being educated when I have knowledge gaps. Apologies if that frustrates you. That flag looked awful similar to the flag of Hamas, hence my provoking questions. Yes violence and acts of antisemitism exist at some of these protests. Hopefully it’s rare and I certainly condemn such hate. My guess is this is possible at any protest, correct? I mean even in Charlottesville when the white guys put on masks and marched shouting ‘we won’t be left behind’ a girl lost her life after people showed up to resist the white supremacists. Awful stuff.

Some humanitarian organizations have labeled what’s going on in Gaza as a genocide. Do we care about what’s being done to Gazan civilians or only about rare acts of antisemitism at a student protest? Or do we care about all acts of violence and loss of civilian (mostly women and children) life? I’ve posted on this because I only see you posting on the violence against Israelis and the acts of antisemitism. Apologies if you’ve also told the story of Gazan civilians suffering and I missed it.
 
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Screenshot_20250528_124258_Bluesky~2.jpg


Going to tank some central american economy to prove he's not a wuss
 
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Southpaw said:
I enjoy learning and being educated when I have knowledge gaps. Apologies if that frustrates you. That flag looked awful similar to the flag of Hamas, hence my provoking questions. Yes violence and acts of antisemitism exist at some of these protests. Hopefully it’s rare and I certainly condemn such hate. My guess is this is possible at any protest, correct? I mean even in Charlottesville when the white guys put on masks and marched shouting ‘we won’t be left behind’ a girl lost her life after people showed up to resist the white supremacists. Awful stuff.

Some humanitarian organizations have labeled what’s going on in Gaza as a genocide. Do we care about what’s being done to Gazan civilians or only about rare acts of antisemitism at a student protest? Or do we care about all acts of violence and loss of civilian (mostly women and children) life? I’ve posted on this because I only see you posting on the violence against Israelis and the acts of antisemitism. Apologies if you’ve also told the story of Gazan civilians suffering and I missed it.
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I respect the right to peacefully assemble and I don’t condone protests being used as a vehicle to spread violence and hate. Of course there are examples of this on both sides, when they are apropos the current discussion I will gladly agree with you, a la Charlottesville, for example.

We can care about what’s going on in Gaza AND the antisemetic sentiment gaining traction is the US. Neither justifies the other. Though according to polls, the Jews in this country would hardly describe them as rare acts, and I tend to agree. I will also be vocal against anyone that insinuates it might be okay to accept “a few” antisemetic acts, or violence against another marginalized population, if it helps get the word out or bring attention to suffering in Gaza, though I agree with the sentiment that it should end.
 
DocMcCoy said:
I respect the right to peacefully assemble and I don’t condone protests being used as a vehicle to spread violence and hate. Of course there are examples of this on both sides, when they are apropos the current discussion I will gladly agree with you, a la Charlottesville, for example.

We can care about what’s going on in Gaza AND the antisemetic sentiment gaining traction is the US. Neither justifies the other. Though according to polls, the Jews in this country would hardly describe them as rare acts, and I tend to agree. I will also be vocal against anyone that insinuates it might be okay to accept “a few” antisemetic acts, or violence against another marginalized population, if it helps get the word out or bring attention to suffering in Gaza, though I agree with the sentiment that it should end.
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When I listen to Israel/Gaza debates online (Dave Smith, Cenk Uyghur, Piers Morgan, Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager, and uhh, Lara Loomer) there’s a feeling among everyone that a response from 10/7 was expected and deserved. And then there’s a feeling from a few that any response, however long that response lasts, is okay. Whatever Israel decides is fine.

Do I accept or believe acts of antisemitism are okay? No I do not.

What do you think would happen if the entire Middle East bombed Israel like Israel has bombed Gaza, and 50,000 Jewish civilians died? WW3, yes?

I just don’t know how or why we shrug off what’s going on over there, or say we need out of Ukraine but what Israel is doing we can continue to support.
 
DocMcCoy said:
I will also be vocal against anyone that insinuates it might be okay to accept “a few” antisemetic acts, or violence against another marginalized population, if it helps get the word out or bring attention to suffering in Gaza, though I agree with the sentiment that it should end.
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Wait, so it's not okay to commit violence against marginalized populations?
 
DocMcCoy said:
The specific example involves marginalized populations. You can remove the word marginalized and It still stands on its own. Unprovoked violence is almost always wrong. I think they teach that in kindergarten.
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Yet we glorify violence. Why are the UFC and NFL so popular?
 
nimbus said:
Yet we glorify violence. Why are the UFC and NFL so popular?
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A question for the philosophers.

Clearly all violence isn’t the same or Nike would be sponsoring suicide bombers.

Willing participants, agreed upon rule sets, safety measures, lower risk of death or permanent physical, emotional, psychological damage, gamesmanship, competition, and outlet so we don’t have to actually hurt each other, blah, blah, blah…
 
DocMcCoy said:
A question for the philosophers.

Clearly all violence isn’t the same or Nike would be sponsoring suicide bombers.

Willing participants, agreed upon rule sets, safety measures, lower risk of death or permanent physical, emotional, psychological damage, gamesmanship, competition, and outlet so we don’t have to actually hurt each other, blah, blah, blah…
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Don't give Nike any ideas...and there is a real category difference between the NFL and UFC type MMA fights (and boxing, for that matter). The fights and the level of violence are on a spectrum but they all have a very real de-humanizing effect, the voluntary part notwithstanding. The skill and agility and athleticism are what's cited for the popularity, but in the end, for the sport to go on, it will have to become more and more violent. That's bad for the fighters, the spectators and the culture that popularizes it. Human cock fighting....
 
Teillard said:
Don't give Nike any ideas...and there is a real category difference between the NFL and UFC type MMA fights (and boxing, for that matter). The fights and the level of violence are on a spectrum but they all have a very real de-humanizing effect, the voluntary part notwithstanding. The skill and agility and athleticism are what's cited for the popularity, but in the end, for the sport to go on, it will have to become more and more violent. That's bad for the fighters, the spectators and the culture that popularizes it. Human cock fighting....
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I see your point but one could argue MMA (and football for that matter) has become increasingly less violent in order to make it more safe. Early UFC days (early 90s) were insane compared to the modern rule sets. If you aren’t familiar, picture bare knuckle fights with teeth getting literally kicked across the octagon. Viewership and popularity doesn’t appear to have suffered.
 
DocMcCoy said:
The specific example involves marginalized populations. You can remove the word marginalized and It still stands on its own. Unprovoked violence is almost always wrong. I think they teach that in kindergarten.
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I actually agree mostly with you on this Doc, but I would like to point out that that I’m pretty sure they teach that even provoked violence is wrong in Kindergarten. I imagine the ultimate goal would be peace on earth, but ultimately, I would argue, we glorify violence because it’s in our nature. It’s part of the dna that makes us animals.
 
MirrorTodd said:
I actually agree mostly with you on this Doc, but I would like to point out that that I’m pretty sure they teach that even provoked violence is wrong in Kindergarten. I imagine the ultimate goal would be peace on earth, but ultimately, I would argue, we glorify violence because it’s in our nature. It’s part of the dna that makes us animals.
Click to expand...
With you 💯 on this
 
"Israel’s former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says he now believes his country’s relentless assault on the Palestinian people amounts to “war crimes” and must be stopped.

While Olmert wrote that he had previously defended his country against “accusations of genocide and war crimes,” the Israeli politician said he can no longer see the widespread slaughter of civilians, including women, children and the elderly, or the campaign to starve Gaza as mere collateral damage in “a brutal war.”

“What we are doing in Gaza is a war of extermination: indiscriminate, unrestrained, brutal, and criminal killing of civilians,” he said."

www.huffpost.com

'Indiscriminate, Unrestrained, Brutal': Former Israeli PM Calls Gaza Assault 'War Crimes'

"What we are doing in Gaza is a war of extermination," former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert wrote in an op-ed aimed at Israeli citizens.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

So many antisemites in Israel smh
 
Southpaw said:
I enjoy learning and being educated when I have knowledge gaps. Apologies if that frustrates you. That flag looked awful similar to the flag of Hamas, hence my provoking questions. Yes violence and acts of antisemitism exist at some of these protests. Hopefully it’s rare and I certainly condemn such hate. My guess is this is possible at any protest, correct? I mean even in Charlottesville when the white guys put on masks and marched shouting ‘we won’t be left behind’ a girl lost her life after people showed up to resist the white supremacists. Awful stuff.

Some humanitarian organizations have labeled what’s going on in Gaza as a genocide. Do we care about what’s being done to Gazan civilians or only about rare acts of antisemitism at a student protest? Or do we care about all acts of violence and loss of civilian (mostly women and children) life? I’ve posted on this because I only see you posting on the violence against Israelis and the acts of antisemitism. Apologies if you’ve also told the story of Gazan civilians suffering and I missed it.
Click to expand...

At this point the Gaza War is a cruel joke. The world is powerless to do anything while Israel carries out a genocide of a whole population. If the Palestinians could they would flee to Egypt, Jordan etc but currently they are surrounded by Israel and trapped. Many Muslims now feel that Hamas leaders are colluding with Israel sitting in Qatar selling their own people for a few dollars.
If I was the leader of a Muslim country I would take the Gazans in and abandon the land of Gaza to Israel just to save a few lives.
 
Last edited:
Teillard said:
Don't give Nike any ideas...and there is a real category difference between the NFL and UFC type MMA fights (and boxing, for that matter). The fights and the level of violence are on a spectrum but they all have a very real de-humanizing effect, the voluntary part notwithstanding. The skill and agility and athleticism are what's cited for the popularity, but in the end, for the sport to go on, it will have to become more and more violent. That's bad for the fighters, the spectators and the culture that popularizes it. Human cock fighting....
Click to expand...
I think you are kidding yourself thinking there is much difference between football and combat sports. Violence is what brings in the crowds. Convert the NFL to flag football and see what happens. People are already upset at the player protective changes.
 
pgg said:
Another way to interpret that "propping up" is that Israel and the US and other countries made a good faith effort to work with the government that Palestineans elected for themselves, despite misgivings, because there was no better option. Or would you have preferred invasion and regime change prior to 10/7?

You can't have it both ways. Either we respect the Palestineans' choice of Hamas to be their leaders and representatives to the world, or we don't. Their government and its military attacked Israel on 10/7 and took civilian hostages. The people in Gaza could rise up and oust Hamas. Hamas could surrender. Neighboring Arab countries could take in Gaza refugees (they won't, of course, for good reasons well rooted in history). There are many ways the people who started this war this could end it, today.

Now again, I think Israel's response was strategically unsound. But I don't fault them for leveling the place any more than I fault the allies for leveling Germany and Japan most of a century ago.
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Hamas does not represent the people of Palestine. PLO does. PLO has been pleading with Hamas to get the hostages released so that this genocide in Gaza could stop. That is because they want Palestinians to survive ; unlike Hamas whose leaders are sitting in Qatar bankrolled by the West not agreeing to a ceasefire at the behest of Netanyahu.
.
 
Last edited:
passiveobserver1979 said:
At this point the Gaza War is a cruel joke. The world is powerless to do anything while Israel carries out a genocide of a whole population. If the Palestinians could they would flee to Egypt, Jordan etc but currently they are surrounded by Israel and trapped. Many Muslims now feel that Hamas leaders are colluding with Israel sitting in Qatar selling their own people for a few dollars.
If I was the leader of a Muslim country I would take the Gazans in and abandon the land of Gaza to Israel just to save a few lives.
Click to expand...

The world is powerless so long as the United States continues to support Israel in this war.
 
After USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 the Japanese emperor Hirohito had Japan surrender to stop Japanese getting annihilated. He wanted the Japanese people to survive. If there was a Palestinian leader in Gaza who wanted the Gazans to survive he would flown a white flag 1 1/2 years back.
 
passiveobserver1979 said:
After USA bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945 the Japanese emperor Hirohito had Japan surrender to stop Japanese getting annihilated. He wanted the Japanese people to survive. If there was a Palestinian leader in Gaza who wanted the Gazans to survive he would flown a white flag 1 1/2 years back.
Click to expand...
Well,

Japan surrendered because Russia was about to start a land invasion
 
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