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aneftp said:
The George Floyd riots were political. Not just about police brutality. But about how the black man is treated in the us court system. And the governor of Minnesota. Barely prosecuted any criminals.
Click to expand...
Hardly.

Its a police brutality and racial inequality issue. Nobody was protesting against a political agenda...and i guarantee that alot of the protestors were Republicans and Democrats.

i guess its political because the maga folks have taken the stance that racism doesnt exist...
 
UscGhost said:
Hardly.

Its a police brutality and racial inequality issue. Nobody was protesting against a political agenda...and i guarantee that alot of the protestors were Republicans and Democrats.

i guess its political because the maga folks have taken the stance that racism doesnt exist...
Click to expand...
U don’t think race isn’t a political agenda. See Supreme Court decisions on race.
 
UscGhost said:
Hardly.

Its a police brutality and racial inequality issue. Nobody was protesting against a political agenda...and i guarantee that alot of the protestors were Republicans and Democrats.

i guess its political because the maga folks have taken the stance that racism doesnt exist...
Click to expand...

Thats a BOLD claim...
 
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UscGhost said:
www.statista.com

George Floyd protests: support by ideology U.S. 2020| Statista

As of mid-June 2020, an overwhelming majority of U.S.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

42% of conservatives support or somewhat support the protests.

Thats alot.

Certainly more than the percentage of liberals supported the capitol maga riots
Click to expand...
support for protests translates to participating in the riots?

you... you believe these guys showed up and participated in the BLM riots? Like in a Kyle Rittenhouse manner?
 
DocMcCoy said:
support for protests translates to participating in the riots?

you... you believe these guys showed up and participated in the BLM riots? Like in a Kyle Rittenhouse manner?
Click to expand...
Of course.

People showed because they were angry/frustrated with police brutality, social injustice, racism, etc. They didn't show up because they were liberal or conservative. Lets not forget, a white cop murdered a black man. Its not primarily a political issue.

But i would expect it to also correlate along racial, social, wealth, etc. Political parties will also follow similarly
 
rowsdower88 said:
"Trump announces 50% tariff on Brazil over Bolsonaro trial, ‘unfair’ trade"


Trump is changing tariffs like "Who's Line Is It Anyway?" points. (I THINK this joke is original... but maybe I've incepted it.)

In TACO we trust.
Click to expand...
Remember that his authority to Levy these was allegedly based on a fentanyl crisis that he deemed an immediate national threat. Don't see the right questioning that constitutional overreach do we?
 
This thread is great comic relief for an otherwise boring day. Let me recap all of the hysteria since DJT took over.

I know the clap back will just be that I am a Maga cult follower who doesn't think DJT can do any wrong. Let me reiterate what I have said since this thread started.

DJT is morally corrupt and not a good person. He is a womanizer and bully.
DJT has Napolean complex but he isn't short
DJT would stab you in the back for a nickle
DJT likely was well connected with Epstein similar to other presidents

Ok, now that this is out of the way and as a moderate republican I can say some of you lefties on here are nuts. You guys have taken over the party and shifted it way way left where you guys would not even condemn Mamdani for all of his crazy rhetoric. The democratic party used to have a strong platform for helping the middle class but now is a shell of itself.

On this thread all I hear is
DJT hates immigrants who is subverting the law and taking away human rights but no issues when Obama was the founding father of this.
DJT is the party of violence..... look at how he cut USAID/Medicaid and killing millions. This one just cracks me up.
DJT is a warmonger after dropping a few bunker buster bombs to force Iran to a peace agreement.
So much more Gems that shows me how the far left has taken over the democratic party.

Now carry on with the sky is falling every time DJT burps.
 
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DirtDocMD said:
Did I say “cabinetry”?? No. I said “carpentry”.

Jeezus

You wanna debate semantics??

You wanna debate whether bringing in hundreds of thousands/millions of folks, who work cheaper than native whites/blacks/hispanics/asians, drives wages down???

Does supply/demand not enter into any rational thought you might have about economics??

Double jeezus…
Click to expand...

Hey let’s revisit this with even better numbers and re-emphasize the fact that they literally CANNOT FIND AMERICAN CITIZENS to do this work at 44 bucks an hour. But let your neighbors high school/college kids know they can fly out to California to work in blazing hot fields all day and make some good money doing it..:.see how many sign up.


Vernon employs 65 field workers, and on this morning was paying 30 of them as much as $44 an hour for piece work, based on pounds of plums picked that day.”

It’s a physical job,” Vernon said. On days when there is less demanding work, like pruning and thinning, the workers make $5 per tree, or around $22 an hour. About 70 percent are undocumented, he said.

Vernon, a Republican who voted for Mr. Trump, said he would like to hire American citizens but has found it impossible to find people willing to do the work.

“They haven’t applied, and I don’t think this is a low-wage job,” he said. “If this is a low-wage job, then what is McDonald’s? There’s a lot lower wages paid than what we’re paying.”
 
emergentmd said:
On this thread all I hear is
DJT hates immigrants who is subverting the law and taking away human rights but no issues when Obama was the founding father of this.
DJT is the party of violence..... look at how he cut USAID/Medicaid and killing millions. This one just cracks me up.
DJT is a warmonger after dropping a few bunker buster bombs to force Iran to a peace agreement.
So much more Gems that shows me how the far left has taken over the democratic party.

Now carry on with the sky is falling every time DJT burps.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what’s “far left” about any of what you put there. I’m also not sure why you’d be cracking up about harm caused by people losing health insurance and global aid programs. Typical MAGA misery loving I guess.

The sky is falling for all the people who are suffering and will suffer because of all this. Doesn’t sound like you’re included in those groups, so I’m sure you don’t feel that way.

You do realize saying “I know you guys will say I’m just a maga cut follower but I’m really a moderate republican lol gotcha” doesn’t actually make you any less of a DJT bootlicker.
Like saying “I know you’ll say I’m an a-hole, I’m really a nice person but I think you’re ugly as hell”.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Hey let’s revisit this with even better numbers and re-emphasize the fact that they literally CANNOT FIND AMERICAN CITIZENS to do this work at 44 bucks an hour. But let your neighbors high school/college kids know they can fly out to California to work in blazing hot fields all day and make some good money doing it..:.see how many sign up.


Vernon employs 65 field workers, and on this morning was paying 30 of them as much as $44 an hour for piece work, based on pounds of plums picked that day.”

It’s a physical job,” Vernon said. On days when there is less demanding work, like pruning and thinning, the workers make $5 per tree, or around $22 an hour. About 70 percent are undocumented, he said.

Vernon, a Republican who voted for Mr. Trump, said he would like to hire American citizens but has found it impossible to find people willing to do the work.

“They haven’t applied, and I don’t think this is a low-wage job,” he said. “If this is a low-wage job, then what is McDonald’s? There’s a lot lower wages paid than what we’re paying.”
Click to expand...
If I had proximity to jobs like that back in college I’d have loved doing them.

Regardless, if raising the wages is what it takes to get Americans to do that work, what’s the problem? It sounds more difficult than HR work for Salesforce to me, should probably be paid more.

I guess I just won’t eat as many plums, I’ll go from 10 a year to 5.

Now that I think about it that’s devastating, forget the whole idea.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Hey let’s revisit this with even better numbers and re-emphasize the fact that they literally CANNOT FIND AMERICAN CITIZENS to do this work at 44 bucks an hour. But let your neighbors high school/college kids know they can fly out to California to work in blazing hot fields all day and make some good money doing it..:.see how many sign up.


Vernon employs 65 field workers, and on this morning was paying 30 of them as much as $44 an hour for piece work, based on pounds of plums picked that day.”

It’s a physical job,” Vernon said. On days when there is less demanding work, like pruning and thinning, the workers make $5 per tree, or around $22 an hour. About 70 percent are undocumented, he said.

Vernon, a Republican who voted for Mr. Trump, said he would like to hire American citizens but has found it impossible to find people willing to do the work.

“They haven’t applied, and I don’t think this is a low-wage job,” he said. “If this is a low-wage job, then what is McDonald’s? There’s a lot lower wages paid than what we’re paying.”
Click to expand...


So essentially we have a country so propped up on welfare, debt, and student loans that we have completely disenfranchised the working class to the point where able bodied Americans aren’t willing to earn a living wage because the “work is too hard”?
 
PainInTheAnes said:
If I had proximity to jobs like that back in college I’d have loved doing them.

Regardless, if raising the wages is what it takes to get Americans to do that work, what’s the problem? It sounds more difficult than HR work for Salesforce to me, should probably be paid more.

I guess I just won’t eat as many plums, I’ll go from 10 a year to 5.

Now that I think about it that’s devastating, forget the whole idea.
Click to expand...

Tell all the high school and college kids you know to sign up and road trip out there, they're clearly hiring. Migrants don't have "proximity" to these jobs either bud, that's why they're migrants lol....they literally travel out there during the picking season.

I mean it was clearly so terrible for all the MAGAites who complained about Bidenflation the last 2-3 years. So higher inflation is either bad or it isn't, which one is it now?

DocMcCoy said:
So essentially we have a country so propped up on welfare, debt, and student loans that we have completely disenfranchised the working class to the point where able bodied Americans aren’t willing to earn a living wage because the “work is too hard”?
Click to expand...

Sounds like it. Let all the doctors kids you know they can go work for 40 bucks an hour in california during summer picking season since they probably lost the DEI grant that was gonna pay for their summer internship, I bet they'll be beating down the door to get out there.
 
DocMcCoy said:
So essentially we have a country so propped up on welfare, debt, and student loans that we have completely disenfranchised the working class to the point where able bodied Americans aren’t willing to earn a living wage because the “work is too hard”?
Click to expand...
Exactly. There’s a reason why, during the Depression, the Government didn’t just simply “hand out” money to young able-bodied American men. If you wanted money, you worked with the CCC or the WPA, you could get a job, and EARN the money for you/your family.

There’s 300 million folks in this country. Plenty to work. Instead, we’ve chosen to “import” labor for the last few decades. It has SEVERELY affected the work ethic/attitudes/hiring practices, of this nation.
 
DocMcCoy said:
So essentially we have a country so propped up on welfare, debt, and student loans that we have completely disenfranchised the working class to the point where able bodied Americans aren’t willing to earn a living wage because the “work is too hard”?
Click to expand...

No. We have a country where most Americans feel they are being fleeced by multimillionaires and billionaires. A country where the cost of an education is increasingly unaffordable. A country where social mobility has become stagnant. A country that continues to reward the few at the top at the expense of the rest of the population.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Sounds like it. Let all the doctors kids you know they can go work for 40 bucks an hour in california during summer picking season since they probably lost the DEI grant that was gonna pay for their summer internship, I bet they'll be beating down the door to get out there.
Click to expand...


Sounds like a good argument for getting rid of grants to me. 🤷‍♂️

A lot of the west Texas doctors kids are out on the ranch doing manual labor since the day they can walk.

Don’t raise your kids to be soft.

If that fails, I usually tell them there is always the military…
 
DocMcCoy said:
Sounds like a good argument for getting rid of grants to me. 🤷‍♂️

A lot of the west Texas doctors kids are out on the ranch doing manual labor since the day they can walk.

Don’t raise your kids to be soft.

If that fails, I usually tell them there is always the military…
Click to expand...

hahaha doing jobs on pa's ranch ain't exactly the same as picking peaches for 8 hours in 90 degrees but okay...that's like literally the point I'm making here.

Yeah I'm sure those kids "aren't soft", their life is basically the same as someone who crossed the Darien gap because they put up a fence on daddy's farm over the summer in between trips to europe with their friends over spring break from their private high school 🤣
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
hahaha doing jobs on pa's ranch ain't exactly the same as picking peaches for 8 hours in 90 degrees but okay...that's like literally the point I'm making here.

Yeah I'm sure those kids "aren't soft", their life is basically the same as someone who crossed the Darien gap because they put up a fence on daddy's farm over the summer in between trips to europe with their friends over spring break from their private high school 🤣
Click to expand...


You sound soft.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Tell all the high school and college kids you know to sign up and road trip out there, they're clearly hiring. Migrants don't have "proximity" to these jobs either bud, that's why they're migrants lol....they literally travel out there during the picking season.

I mean it was clearly so terrible for all the MAGAites who complained about Bidenflation the last 2-3 years. So higher inflation is either bad or it isn't, which one is it now?



Sounds like it. Let all the doctors kids you know they can go work for 40 bucks an hour in california during summer picking season since they probably lost the DEI grant that was gonna pay for their summer internship, I bet they'll be beating down the door to get out there.
Click to expand...
I think price inflation on some things is fine, personally, especially if uneducated people can make more money and compete with the nonsense college degree jobs like HR, advertising, consumer relations, or whatever it is all the communications and personal growth majors do.

Tbh it never occurred to me to travel during the summer for work. I didn’t exactly have a great way to get out to a berry field in south Texas and was already living in a leased apartment near my college, working in the area.

I am in favor of work visas for temporary jobs as well. I will encourage my kids to do this sort of thing in the summer during college actually, if the wages are that high. Hard to find other low skill temp work in summer to do at those wages. Hopefully unpaid internships are illegal by then
 
emergentmd said:
This thread is great comic relief for an otherwise boring day. Let me recap all of the hysteria since DJT took over.

I know the clap back will just be that I am a Maga cult follower who doesn't think DJT can do any wrong. Let me reiterate what I have said since this thread started.

DJT is morally corrupt and not a good person. He is a womanizer and bully.
DJT has Napolean complex but he isn't short
DJT would stab you in the back for a nickle
DJT likely was well connected with Epstein similar to other presidents

Ok, now that this is out of the way and as a moderate republican I can say some of you lefties on here are nuts. You guys have taken over the party and shifted it way way left where you guys would not even condemn Mamdani for all of his crazy rhetoric. The democratic party used to have a strong platform for helping the middle class but now is a shell of itself.

On this thread all I hear is
DJT hates immigrants who is subverting the law and taking away human rights but no issues when Obama was the founding father of this.
DJT is the party of violence..... look at how he cut USAID/Medicaid and killing millions. This one just cracks me up.
DJT is a warmonger after dropping a few bunker buster bombs to force Iran to a peace agreement.
So much more Gems that shows me how the far left has taken over the democratic party.

Now carry on with the sky is falling every time DJT burps.
Click to expand...
So do you support and approve of DJT? Your initial points seem pretty damning for a person to be US President and they even leave out the authoritarian tendancies. How are those things not disqualifying? I'm far from a leftist and generally want a smaller government that does less and taxes less, but I definitely voted for Kamala over DJT despite that. She tried, ineffectively and belatedly, to pivot to a bit more moderate of a position for the election.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
If I had proximity to jobs like that back in college I’d have loved doing them.

Regardless, if raising the wages is what it takes to get Americans to do that work, what’s the problem? It sounds more difficult than HR work for Salesforce to me, should probably be paid more.

I guess I just won’t eat as many plums, I’ll go from 10 a year to 5.

Now that I think about it that’s devastating, forget the whole idea.
Click to expand...
I think someone forgot their econ classes

Why do you think think manufacturing left the US.
Cost of labor.

So if you raise the cost of labor on farms...farms have to raise prices. Markets wont tolerate it..so it will increase imports and farms will shutdown. Or, the government will have to increase subsidies to farms (more than they already do) to keep prices down

So in effect, we would be spending money to deport cheap labor, so that we could spend more money to subsidize farms.

Also, the population will purchase less fruit/vegetables, and purchase more processed foods. Increasing healthcare costs

This problem will only continue to worsen, as the birthrate is below replacement level. So the average age of the labor force will increase. The only thing keeping our demographic young is...drum roll.... immigration

Or..we could keep immigrants, let them perform cheap manual labor, while Americans focus on higher quality jobs. Our spending power continues to improve. And we continue to prosper.
 
UscGhost said:
So in effect, we would be spending money to deport cheap labor, so that we could spend more money to subsidize farms.

Also, the population will purchase less fruit/vegetables, and purchase more processed foods. Increasing healthcare costs

This problem will only continue to worsen, as the birthrate is below replacement level. So the average age of the labor force will increase. The only thing keeping our demographic young is...drum roll.... immigration

Or..we could keep immigrants, let them perform cheap manual labor, while Americans focus on higher quality jobs. Our spending power continues to improve. And we continue to prosper.
Click to expand...
This reads like something one could’ve read in the Charleston Gazette in 1859
 
PainInTheAnes said:
This reads like something one could’ve read in the Charleston Gazette in 1859
Click to expand...
Labor costs make up 5-40% of farm expenses

Illegal immigrants make up 42% of farm labor

So what do you think happens if they deport them? What happens to the local restaurants, stores, shops when you deport thousands of customers

Its just foolish.

Legal status of hired crop farmworkers, fiscal 1991–2022 | Economic Research Service

The share of hired crop farmworkers who were not legally authorized to work in the United States grew from roughly 14 percent in 1989–91 to almost 55 percent in 1999–2001; in recent years it has declined to about 40 percent. In 2020–22, 32 percent of crop farmworkers were U.S. born, 7 percent...
www.ers.usda.gov www.ers.usda.gov

Labor costs on specialty crop farms accounted for 3 times as much of their total cash expenses as the average for all U.S. farms | Economic Research Service

Some types of farms rely more on farm labor than others. According to data from USDA’s Agricultural Resources Management Survey, hired farm labor (including employees and contract labor) accounted for 13 percent, on average, of the total input costs used in agricultural production in 2018...
www.ers.usda.gov www.ers.usda.gov
 
PainDrain said:
No. We have a country where most Americans feel they are being fleeced by multimillionaires and billionaires. A country where the cost of an education is increasingly unaffordable. A country where social mobility has become stagnant. A country that continues to reward the few at the top at the expense of the rest of the population.
Click to expand...

The erosion of the two parent household, lack of community, and decreasing ROI of higher educational programs probably has as much of an impact on social mobility than the “fleecing” by the 1%.

Sure, there is plenty of room to argue paying their share. But there is complete lack of motivation by a large percentage of the under employed, unemployed, and working age individuals collecting disability that we should probably think about addressing as well. Especially when despite all the Rousseau influenced sentiment, there is still plenty to eat if there are 40 dollar an hour plum picking jobs that can’t be filled.

zizzer said:
So do you support and approve of DJT? Your initial points seem pretty damning for a person to be US President and they even leave out the authoritarian tendancies. How are those things not disqualifying? I'm far from a leftist and generally want a smaller government that does less and taxes less, but I definitely voted for Kamala over DJT despite that. She tried, ineffectively and belatedly, to pivot to a bit more moderate of a position for the election.
Click to expand...

The fact is the electorate didn’t find any of those things disqualifying, because he won. I didn’t approve of Biden but I supported his administration in as much as I want America to succeed. Obviously I want the same under this administration.


UscGhost said:
Or..we could keep immigrants, let them perform cheap manual labor, while Americans focus on higher quality jobs. Our spending power continues to improve. And we continue to prosper.
Click to expand...


It seems inherently racist to suggest there are a set of jobs where the conditions and pay are so bad they arent acceptable for native born workers, but ok for immigrants. I have no idea how the left gets away with this as a talking point.

If “we need foreigners to do our cheap sh*tty jobs, so we can focus on the good ones” was a talking point of the right, you would be all over it.
 
DocMcCoy said:
The fact is the electorate didn’t find any of those things disqualifying, because he won. I didn’t approve of Biden but I supported his administration in as much as I want America to succeed. Obviously I want the same under this administration.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, not enough people did find them disqualifying and they deserve blame for that, as do Democrats for not offering a better candidate and platform. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by support with regards to Biden. I'm not actively rooting for Trump to fail. I hope he does make good decisions and doesn't get carried away with a veer towards authoritarianism any further. I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen, though.
 
DocMcCoy said:
The erosion of the two parent household, lack of community, and decreasing ROI of higher educational programs probably has as much of an impact on social mobility than the “fleecing” by the 1%.

Sure, there is plenty of room to argue paying their share. But there is complete lack of motivation by a large percentage of the under employed, unemployed, and working age individuals collecting disability that we should probably think about addressing as well. Especially when despite all the Rousseau influenced sentiment, there is still plenty to eat if there are 40 dollar an hour plum picking jobs that can’t be filled.



The fact is the electorate didn’t find any of those things disqualifying, because he won. I didn’t approve of Biden but I supported his administration in as much as I want America to succeed. Obviously I want the same under this administration.





It seems inherently racist to suggest there are a set of jobs where the conditions and pay are so bad they arent acceptable for native born workers, but ok for immigrants. I have no idea how the left gets away with this as a talking point.

If “we need foreigners to do our cheap sh*tty jobs, so we can focus on the good ones” was a talking point of the right, you would be all over it.
Click to expand...
Its reality. You hire the workers who apply. It would be racist to refuse to hire a certain race despite them applying

No wonder the right has a problem being racist...they dont even know what it is
 
UscGhost said:
Its reality. You hire the workers who apply. It would be racist to refuse to hire a certain race despite them applying

No wonder the right has a problem being racist...they dont even know what it is
Click to expand...


We could force dialysis patient on Medicaid to work as farm laborers. I think there is a name for that.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
I’m not sure what’s “far left” about any of what you put there. I’m also not sure why you’d be cracking up about harm caused by people losing health insurance and global aid programs. Typical MAGA misery loving I guess.
Click to expand...
I am not cracking up that some people will suffer. Every administration that passes new laws will have some that comes out better and some that will come out worse.

I am cracking up because you guys go pitchfork when DJT even burps. `

When JB failed at Afghanistan withdrawal, and people were falling out of planes leaving many suffering; I didn't hear all of the condemnation. Many dems have just lost it with DJT thus the derangement syndrome.
 
zizzer said:
So do you support and approve of DJT? Your initial points seem pretty damning for a person to be US President and they even leave out the authoritarian tendancies. How are those things not disqualifying? I'm far from a leftist and generally want a smaller government that does less and taxes less, but I definitely voted for Kamala over DJT despite that. She tried, ineffectively and belatedly, to pivot to a bit more moderate of a position for the election.
Click to expand...
I support DJT because he is our president and wish he has a successful presidency just as I would if KH won. Why would any American not support our elected president? I disapprove of many of his policies from Canada 51st to Greenland to Tariffs to his personality flaws.

But the election was DJT who was close to being unelectable or KH who has proven to be unelectable thus DJT won. He is our president, and not matter what, I want him to succeed. He will be president for another 3.5 years and then I hope both parties can move from the MAGA and crazy leftist platforms.

Looks like Vance gonna continue MAGA, lets see if dems have the guts to nominate a moderate. and not some AOC type.
 
UscGhost said:
I think someone forgot their econ classes

Why do you think think manufacturing left the US.
Cost of labor.

So if you raise the cost of labor on farms...farms have to raise prices. Markets wont tolerate it..so it will increase imports and farms will shutdown. Or, the government will have to increase subsidies to farms (more than they already do) to keep prices down

So in effect, we would be spending money to deport cheap labor, so that we could spend more money to subsidize farms.

Also, the population will purchase less fruit/vegetables, and purchase more processed foods. Increasing healthcare costs

This problem will only continue to worsen, as the birthrate is below replacement level. So the average age of the labor force will increase. The only thing keeping our demographic young is...drum roll.... immigration

Or..we could keep immigrants, let them perform cheap manual labor, while Americans focus on higher quality jobs. Our spending power continues to improve. And we continue to prosper.
Click to expand...
Serious questions. Obama was far and away the biggest deporter. Did we see some increased prices/inflation? So why do you think DJT deporting a fraction will suddenly cause prices to go sky high?

You can't have it both ways. Sometimes you have to think with facts and not emotions.
 
UscGhost said:
Labor costs make up 5-40% of farm expenses

Illegal immigrants make up 42% of farm labor

So what do you think happens if they deport them? What happens to the local restaurants, stores, shops when you deport thousands of customers

Its just foolish.

Legal status of hired crop farmworkers, fiscal 1991–2022 | Economic Research Service

The share of hired crop farmworkers who were not legally authorized to work in the United States grew from roughly 14 percent in 1989–91 to almost 55 percent in 1999–2001; in recent years it has declined to about 40 percent. In 2020–22, 32 percent of crop farmworkers were U.S. born, 7 percent...
www.ers.usda.gov www.ers.usda.gov

Labor costs on specialty crop farms accounted for 3 times as much of their total cash expenses as the average for all U.S. farms | Economic Research Service

Some types of farms rely more on farm labor than others. According to data from USDA’s Agricultural Resources Management Survey, hired farm labor (including employees and contract labor) accounted for 13 percent, on average, of the total input costs used in agricultural production in 2018...
www.ers.usda.gov www.ers.usda.gov
Click to expand...
Lots of good info. Can you tell me what happened when Obama deported many times more? No need for conjecture when we have history.
 
emergentmd said:
Serious questions. Obama was far and away the biggest deporter. Did we see some increased prices/inflation? So why do you think DJT deporting a fraction will suddenly cause prices to go sky high?

You can't have it both ways. Sometimes you have to think with facts and not emotions.
Click to expand...

Obama also implemented DACA. He also left office with roughly the same number of illegal immigrants in the country as when he began. He worked with local law enforcement to deport illegals who were criminals and a threat to national security (you know…the stuff Trump ran on but hasn’t been successful with).

I don’t recall nor do I see evidence that Obama us into a police state by increasing the budget for ICE by hundreds of billions. I don’t recall him deporting illegals to foreign countries and putting them in prison (cruel and inhumane).

I also recall the right saying he was soft on immigration (due to programs like DACA) while also now trying say he was strong on immigration. Personally I find his approach mixed. He had some successes and he had some failures.

The question you should ask is why Obama was so successful with absolute numbers and trumps having such a tough time despite massively expanding the reach of ICE and having Noem cosplay ICE agent for her ‘gram. My guess is somehow someway you’ll blame it on the left.
 
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Southpaw said:
Obama also implemented DACA. He also left office with roughly the same number of illegal immigrants in the country as when he began. He worked with local law enforcement to deport illegals who were criminals and a threat to national security (you know…the stuff Trump ran on but hasn’t been successful with).

I don’t recall nor do I see evidence for turning us into a police state by increasing the budget for ICE by hundreds of billions. I don’t recall him deporting illegals to foreign countries and putting them in prison (cruel and inhumane).

I also recall the right saying he was soft on immigration (due to programs like DACA) while also now trying say he was strong on immigration. Personally I find his approach mixed. He had some successes and he had some failures.

The question you should ask is why Obama was so successful with absolute numbers and trumps having such a tough time despite massively expanding the reach of ICE and having Noem cosplay ICE agent for her ‘gram. My guess is somehow someway you’ll blame it on the left.
Click to expand...
I am done with this because you do not choose to learn or educate yourself. You can never be wrong. If you read my response a few pages back on comparing what Obama vs Trump did, then you would see what you said is wrong. Obama did the exact same thing except republicans/right didn't riot against ICE or Dox ICE or have sanctuary cities. There is a reason some left leaning immigration groups called him the "Godfather" or "founder" of DJT's current policies except on a much more massive scale including Armed home raids, Work raids, Majority with zero or minor traffic offences, majority without a trial etc.

And if you think after DJT's presidency that there will be less immigrants in the US, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Just because you say Obama was successful shows your ignorance. Again, if Dems fart then it smells good. When DJT farts then it smells bad, its crucify him.

I am done debating you, good luck the next 3.5 yrs. You should lay off this site because you spend wayyyyyy to much time and it is not healthy debating politics all the time.
 
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Screenshot_20250711_091639_Bluesky.jpg
 
Lab Lover said:
Human nature. Why is South Korea and Japan choosing to undergo a massive demographic collapse-rather than encourage immigration?
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nimbus said:
We are kneecapping our own strengths. The USA still excels in certain areas. Why are we sabotaging ourselves? To prove a point? To own the libs?
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The answer to your question and mine is some level of nationalism/tribalism/racism. Serving those negative emotions has unintended consequences. It is not just white people that have those tendencies.
 
emergentmd said:
I am done debating you, good luck the next 3.5 yrs. You should lay off this site because you spend wayyyyyy to much time and it is not healthy debating politics all the time.
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Couple quick things as it isn't worth the time invested to reply to your posts:

1) obama had a mixed record on immigration. my post details that. certainly more to say on that, but not really worth discussing it with you. too closed minded.
2) importantly, the inhumane treatment of human beings that Trump STARTED with have left a bad taste in people's mouth (or a good taste of you're a MAGA state media addict). additionally, Trump campaigned on 14 million DANGEROUS CRIMINALS in the US all brought here by BYYDEN. Well, he hasn't been successful at getting them out. I assure you, if there are 14 million dangerous illegal immigrants here in the US I'd like them all out.
3) most farts smell bad. weird take.
4) DJTs record on immigration is yet to be determined. I'd personally say he's off to a bad start though per the polls it's the only thing so far people like.
5) great, be done! I'm not real sure I've ever actually debated you on anything. Most of your posts are holier than thou soapbox diatribes and I haven't really found that you possess the intellect nor knowledge base to actually debate an issue. It's all just one sided blah blah blahness.
6) Lastly and importantly, this is my home forum. I've been here 20+ years. I'm not going anywhere. While I'm happy you're constantly concerned about everyone's mental health, trust me, we're all doing fine here. It's the rest of the country we're worried about.
 
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Lab Lover said:
The answer to your question and mine is some level of nationalism/tribalism/racism. Serving those negative emotions has unintended consequences. It is not just white people that have those tendencies.
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Tell me about it. My parents didn’t come to my wedding or speak to me for 3 years when I married a white woman. Only after we had our daughter did they come around. Glad I could end a 5000 year curse of racial purity. Future generations will not have to carry that. What did they expect when they brought us to America?
 
MirrorTodd said:
I have a feeling that ICE officers still needed probable cause under Obama’s admin. Here we have the current director of ICE saying that they DON’T need probable cause to detain someone, but sure, ya continue on with your whataboutisms.

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/ZVDRgmM100
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Well he’s not wrong. They only need to meet the lower legal standard of reasonable suspicion to briefly detain and question.

Terry v Ohio. Same legal standard every administration has had since the 60s.
 
PainInTheAnes said:
This reads like something one could’ve read in the Charleston Gazette in 1859
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To be fair, the loss of slavery WAS economically devastating to the south, for a very long time.

The comparison to immigrant labor falls apart though when you realize the immigrants WANT to work for their current wages, and that there's a simple way to resolve the issue of illegal immigration to everyone's satisfaction and prosperity:

1) work visa program to screen, permit, and track the people who want to do honest work here
2) deport anyone who remains here illegally after the work visa program is in effect
3) prosecute people who hire illegal labor
 
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