Biden Out of Race

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Give me a break. How many times has the left called out the right here for failure to speak out against things even tangentially related to events like this?

There certainly have been instances of posters advocating and or supporting violence.

But you are still dancing around the issue. You have to go a step further than saying violence is bad. Are the violent protests bad? Do you think attacks like this are justified? Do you defend the push from the left to step up and be “willing to bleed” to push back against this administration? Because all your post really said is well this is to be expected, and then sprinkle in some J6 nonsense for effect.
Lol.

Oook. Violence is bad mmmmkay. Violent protests are bad. Violent (insert activity) is bad.

I dont know which specific statements you are referring to in regards to "willing to bleed". Are they peaceful protesters willing to be beaten in order to stand up for what they believe in? Willing to bleed usually implies a willingness to subject oneself to being the victim. Lots of hypotheticals there

Curious though. For someone who seems to be so determined to clutch their pearls about violence...when you refer to J6 as nonsense. Which part of it was nonsense? Was it when the protesters were assaulting cops? Or when elected leaders were fleeing for their lives. Or was it when elected Maga leaders were inciting the violence in the first place?
 
So like, conservatives, are you all ok with there suddenly being no Epstein files? That there isn’t any/enough evidence? That the client list that was on Pam Bondi’s desk is suddenly gone, missing, never existed? I suppose that’s all old news now? Never really mattered in the first place? Congratulations, you voted for and are actively supporting a pedophile. (I know, I know, there’s no evidence!)
 
I don’t either particularly. I think illegal immigration depresses wages overall which is why I favor more deportations. If an economy only functions well due to that then it’s not built on solid foundation and needs a reset in that regard.

It mildly influences my voting patterns.
I would tend to agree in theory; however, said reset will make fruits/vegetables shockingly expensive and/or just lose a lot of domestic production.

While I didn't enjoy paying 20k for a new roof, I much prefer that to the 40k (if not more) it would take to get Americans to do it.
 
I would tend to agree in theory; however, said reset will make fruits/vegetables shockingly expensive and/or just lose a lot of domestic production.

While I didn't enjoy paying 20k for a new roof, I much prefer that to the 40k (if not more) it would take to get Americans to do it.
Everyone has a price. I don’t always buy American myself but I see that being uneducated in America means your options are very small for mobility. To me anything depressing wages for that group should be rectified
 
Everyone has a price. I don’t always buy American myself but I see that being uneducated in America means your options are very small for mobility. To me anything depressing wages for that group should be rectified
Not sure that's as true as many people like to say.

Local tech schools are cheap, often have solid scholarships, and don't take long to end up with some very high demand blue collar jobs.
 
So like, conservatives, are you all ok with there suddenly being no Epstein files? That there isn’t any/enough evidence? That the client list that was on Pam Bondi’s desk is suddenly gone, missing, never existed? I suppose that’s all old news now? Never really mattered in the first place? Congratulations, you voted for and are actively supporting a pedophile. (I know, I know, there’s no evidence!)


Ghislane Maxwell is serving a 20 year sentence for trafficking minors to…..nobody.
 
Love to see maga twist and squirm to defend this obviously crooked DOJ protecting pedos. There’s a list…it’s on my desk! There’s no list we’re done investigating!


Lots of democrats associated with him too-Clinton, Gates, Dershowitz, etc. He got around.
 
Love to see maga twist and squirm to defend this obviously crooked DOJ protecting pedos. There’s a list…it’s on my desk! There’s no list we’re done investigating!
Lots of democrats associated with him too-Clinton, Gates, Dershowitz, etc. He got around.
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For all of them.
 
lol, dictatorship. Still waiting to see one of these new secret police stormtroopers. I’ll let ya know when my neighborhood gets door knocking and when we need to drive our barbecues and play dates underground
I know you are a caricature of a person but if there is something real behind your name, realistically, do you think you just wake up one day and there are magical stormtroopers or is it a gradual process? Because I think anyone who has two damn neurons and an education beyond YouTube videos and rightwing Twitter posts would know that it happens as a consistent erosion of protections and that the establishment of the ICE secret police is a fundamental and crucial step. There are people having to do stuff underground now because of ICE but I know they are a subhuman class of objects to the right that don't count, just like the jews didn't to the nazis.
 
I know you are a caricature of a person but if there is something real behind your name, realistically, do you think you just wake up one day and there are magical stormtroopers or is it a gradual process? Because I think anyone who has two damn neurons and an education beyond YouTube videos and rightwing Twitter posts would know that it happens as a consistent erosion of protections and that the establishment of the ICE secret police is a fundamental and crucial step. There are people having to do stuff underground now because of ICE but I know they are a subhuman class of objects to the right that don't count, just like the jews didn't to the nazis.
Right back at ya on the caricature bit. Great segue for the nazi comparison that encompasses 49.9% of voters, many of whom are the very targets of the persecution you’re suggesting is coming for us.

Go outside chicken little. You’ll find that the sky is not in fact falling.

Any day now, they’re coming for the educated. Any day now.
 
I dont know which specific statements you are referring to in regards to "willing to bleed". Are they peaceful protesters willing to be beaten in order to stand up for what they believe in? Willing to bleed usually implies a willingness to subject oneself to being the victim. Lots of hypotheticals there


Pick your statement. Its calls for violence. The same kind of violence we saw at BLM protests, anti musk protests, and now at anti ICE protests, and it appears to be getting worse.

The irony is it’s coming from a “well educated”, “white”, “upscale” demographic. Not unlike, say the group you would find on this forum.


Curious though. For someone who seems to be so determined to clutch their pearls about violence...when you refer to J6 as nonsense. Which part of it was nonsense? Was it when the protesters were assaulting cops? Or when elected leaders were fleeing for their lives. Or was it when elected Maga leaders were inciting the violence in the first place?


I can’t count how many times I’ve spoken out against j6. If you’ve been keeping up at all you would know that. Otherwise, you are just being disingenuous. The nonsense is your whataboutism. “Ya but J6” is a weak argument especially when nobody is here is defending J6. You want to paint the right as the party of crazies and violence and the left as smart and rational, but all you have to offer is your own flavor of the same thing.
 
Not sure your article describes what you think it does.

All it says is that democratic legislators are hearing FROM voters that the voters want more to be done (violence and self sacrifice ) And that the legislators were telling them that its not the way..they need to get votes, win election, etc

Vastly different from MAGA leadership that actively incite violence...or generate conspiracy theories that incite violence

So your attempt to argue that random angry people somehow define the approach of the left, when the leadership of the left actively discourages such violence...falls flat.

Ill worry about the left once i see elected Democrat leaders inciting violence. So far, thats the playground of the maga right

But here are some statements from your leadership..

Examples of Statements Attributed to Donald Trump:
  • During Rallies:
    • Referring to those disrupting his rallies, Trump has said: "Part of the problem ... is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore," "In the good old days this doesn't happen because they used to treat them very, very rough," "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court, don't worry about it," "I'd like to punch him in the face," "Knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously."
    • He also stated, "I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks."
  • Regarding Protestors:
    • In response to protests in Minneapolis, he tweeted, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," a phrase with a history tied to police brutality.
    • He has also suggested that authorities use harsh tactics against protesters, saying, "If you had one really violent day ... one rough hour—and I mean real rough—the word will get out, and it will end immediately," and suggesting the National Guard or military be used to handle "radical-left lunatics".
  • General Statements:
    • He famously claimed, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters".
    • More recently, he's stated that shoplifters "can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store," and has spoken about going after "this attorney general" in court.
Statements from Other MAGA Figures:
  • Tom Cotton: Encouraged individuals to "take matters into your own hands" if encountering protesters blocking roads.
  • Kari Lake: Encouraged supporters to "strap on a Glock".

Or heck, how about pardoning the violent protestors from Jan 6???

So far MAGA is way ahead in regards to violent rhetoric snd actions
 
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Not sure your article describes what you think it does.

All it says is that democratic legislators are hearing FROM voters that the voters want more to be done (violence and self sacrifice ) And that the legislators were telling them that its not the way..they need to get votes, win election, etc


Like I said, a grassroots movement pushing for violence which has manifested in actual f’ing violence.

Vastly different from MAGA leadership that actively incite violence...or generate conspiracy theories that incite violence

Surely, you mean more than “fight like hell” and pushing an election fraud narrative, right? Because that’s pretty weak.

So your attempt to argue that random angry people somehow define the approach of the left, when the leadership of the left actively discourages such violence...falls flat.

Because so many democratic legislators have spoken out against the recent violent towards ICE, right?
 
Like I said, a grassroots movement pushing for violence which has manifested in actual f’ing violence.



Surely, you mean more than “fight like hell” and pushing an election fraud narrative, right? Because that’s pretty weak.



Because so many democratic legislators have spoken out against the recent violent towards ICE, right?
Lol. Yea, i think that when the president holds a rally, directly encouraging violence, mere hours before a violent storming of the capitol, entirely under the basis of "stop the steal" in which cops were beaten..might be a bit more impactful than some random unknown "grassroots" people..in some random unknown "grassroots" location..somehow connecting with ICE protestors in texas.

Not even a comparison

And then he pardons them, for such violence, which he promised to do!
 
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Lol. Yea, i think that when the president holds a rally, directly encouraging violence, mere hours before a violent storming of the capitol, entirely under the basis of "stop the steal" in which cops were beaten..might be a bit more impactful than some random unknown "grassroots" people..in some random unknown "grassroots" location..somehow connecting with ICE protestors in texas.

Not even a comparison


Don’t forget “fight like hell” and “peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard”, because that IS rhetoric similar to what’s coming out of the left leadership right now, along with calling ICE a “terrorist organization”. So, if that is your bar, like you said it’s time for you to be concerned. But remind me, how many cops were shot in a coordinated attack on J6? Because that is what happened in Texas.

Again, I’m not sure what your focus is on J6 but if you want to keep score, democratic violence economically outpaces right violence and it isn’t even close. And now you are closing the gap as to whom is more deadly. Surely, not a game any side should strive to win.
 
democratic violence economically outpaces right violence and it isn’t even close.

Source?

"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020."


"There has been a strong presumption among many that while left-wing and right-wing ideologies vary a great deal in content, they resemble each other in terms of their willingness to use violence to further their political agenda. However, our analysis shows that right-wing actors are significantly more violent than left-wing actors,” said LaFree, a professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice (CCJS) and the founding director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START)."


"...we find that radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent. In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists. However, differences in violence emerge on the global level, with Islamist extremists being more likely than right-wing extremists to engage in more violent acts."

 
Don’t forget Zizian violence. Can’t tell if they’re far right or far left or just nuts. They are certainly violent.


“Over the years, the Rationalist movement has counted Peter Thiel and Sam Bankman-Fried among its community, and has influenced numerous figures, including Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Steven Pinker and Nate Silver. Perhaps more significant, for the tech workers building the A.I. tools that will undergird our world, Rationalism is something like a fraternity, and a shared language.

Ziz, who is transgender, started as a typical Rationalist — a geeky optimist hoping to save the world — but turned toward an ultraradical strain of the philosophy. She wrote favorably of violence, said she was willing to sacrifice everything to achieve her goals and considered A.I.’s threat to humanity “the most important problem in the world,” she once wrote. Now six people are dead, landing her and several friends and allies, known as the “Zizians,” in jail, awaiting trial. Many Rationalists worry that their community will be tinged by association with a group that, while not convicted of anything, has been compared in the press to the Manson family.“



 
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Oh wait... he's going to say all of BLM qualifies as economic "democratic violence" isn't he...

Despite no member of the Democratic Party organizing or really supporting the violence (to my knowledge).

If that's going to be how we're going to assess something like "support", let's expand our term of "violence" similarly.

I think kicking millions of people off Medicaid is pretty violent. I also think the cutting of USAID, which will result in an estimated 14 million deaths around the world, is pretty violent. Millions of people losing health insurance will, in the long term, be a pretty gargantuan cost.

Those were the express opinions and decisions made by members of this Congress and our President. Those are Republican fostered deaths and disabilities.
 
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Don’t forget “fight like hell” and “peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard”, because that IS rhetoric similar to what’s coming out of the left leadership right now, along with calling ICE a “terrorist organization”. So, if that is your bar, like you said it’s time for you to be concerned. But remind me, how many cops were shot in a coordinated attack on J6? Because that is what happened in Texas.

Again, I’m not sure what your focus is on J6 but if you want to keep score, democratic violence economically outpaces right violence and it isn’t even close. And now you are closing the gap as to whom is more deadly. Surely, not a game any side should strive to win.
Yea, i am sure some maga folks said some benign things. So what? I am focused on the the actual statements encouraging people to be violent.

But remind me..did president biden organize an anti -ice rally, encourage anti ice violence, and then pardon the criminals?
 


1st, the ECONOMIC impact of left violence is much greater than right violence. Are you denying this? Go back 30 years and compare. Do you have google? What was the economic impact of the BLM riots? Tesla violence? Now LA again?

Thats billions…

The damage to the Capitol on J6, about 3 million…

There is a reason right wing violence is historically documented in criminal terms and not economic terms. They don’t generally leave cities burned in their wake.

2nd, you are confirming what I already stated, right wing violence is historically more deadly, but yall seem in a hurry to catch up.


50% of the democratic party thinks the assassination of Donald Trump would be justified.

60% thinks the attacks in Tesla dealerships was justified.

White, rich, democrats are pushing their leadership to be more violent.

Statistically, they would include some posters here.

We don’t have data on how much of the left supports violence toward ICE, yet, as far as I can tell. How high do you think that number is going to be in the polls?

If you want to sit here and suggest the left doesn’t have a violence problem, you are out of touch and/or totally ignorant.
 
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1st, the ECONOMIC impact of left violence is much greater than right violence. Are you denying this? Go back 30 years and compare. Do you have google? What was the economic impact of the BLM riots? Tesla violence? Now LA again?

Thats billions…

The damage to the Capitol on J6, about 3 million…

There is a reason right wing violence is historically documented in criminal terms. They don’t generally leave cities burned in their wake.

2nd, you are confirming what I already stated, right wing violence is historically more deadly, but yall seem in a hurry to catch up.


50% of the democratic party thinks the assassination of Donald Trump would be justified.

60% thinks the attacks in Tesla dealerships was justified.

White, rich, democrats are pushing their leadership to be more violent.

Statistically, they would include some posters here.

We don’t have data on how much of the left supports violence toward ICE, yet, as far as I can tell. How high do you think that number is going to be in the polls?

If you want to sit here and suggest the left doesn’t have a violence problem, you are out of touch and/or totally ignorant.
Tulsa massacre.

Kkk

Pretty violent
 
Oh wait... he's going to say all of BLM qualifies as economic "democratic violence" isn't he...

Despite no member of the Democratic Party organizing or really supporting the violence (to my knowledge).


Was BLM not a leftist movement? Are you somehow suggesting the billions in damages can be attributed to the right somehow?

Unless we are trying to rewrite history MANY of the democratic leadership supported BLM protests long after many turned violent and even called for the complete dismantling of police departments in some instances.

Yea, i am sure some maga folks said some benign things. So what? I am focused on the the actual statements encouraging people to be violent.

But remind me..did president biden organize an anti -ice rally, encourage anti ice violence, and then pardon the criminals?


Trumps statements alone are about as violent as Hakeem Jeffries and his baseball bat.

Biden wouldn’t be physically or mentally capable of either. But he had no problem pardoning criminals.
 
The fact that he is so desperate to cut interest rates should tell everyone in the room just what a bad idea it is.

View attachment 406327

Stephen Moran (pronounced m0r0n) is also the same genius who proposed selling US debt as 100 year treasury instruments to other countries into exchange for our protection. “Buy this debt or else maybe something bad happens to you.” Shocking this guy is Trump’s top economic adviser, he was unknown prior to 2025.
 
1st, the ECONOMIC impact of left violence is much greater than right violence. Are you denying this? Go back 30 years and compare. Do you have google? What was the economic impact of the BLM riots? Tesla violence? Now LA again?

Thats billions…

The damage to the Capitol on J6, about 3 million…

There is a reason right wing violence is historically documented in criminal terms and not economic terms. They don’t generally leave cities burned in their wake.

2nd, you are confirming what I already stated, right wing violence is historically more deadly, but yall seem in a hurry to catch up.


50% of the democratic party thinks the assassination of Donald Trump would be justified.

60% thinks the attacks in Tesla dealerships was justified.

White, rich, democrats are pushing their leadership to be more violent.

Statistically, they would include some posters here.

We don’t have data on how much of the left supports violence toward ICE, yet, as far as I can tell. How high do you think that number is going to be in the polls?

If you want to sit here and suggest the left doesn’t have a violence problem, you are out of touch and/or totally ignorant.

Your use of "democratic violence" is better described as leftist extremist violence.

Was BLM not a leftist movement? Are you somehow suggesting the billions in damages can be attributed to the right somehow?

Unless we are trying to rewrite history MANY of the democratic leadership supported BLM protests long after many turned violent and even called for the complete dismantling of police departments in some instances.

Yeah, you're playing fast and loose with common understandings of "support".

If we're playing this fast and loose, Republican cuts to Healthcare absolutely count as violent action under most ethical frameworks. Ethically, the predictable outcomes of a bomb aren't really different from policy decisions if we're just counting up deaths and disease.
 
Your use of "democratic violence" is better described as leftist extremist violence.

One would hope that when talking about any political violence, it would insinuate “extremist” ideological violence. But according to the polling data previously stated, that might not be the case, would it?


Yeah, you're playing fast and loose with common understandings of "support".


I’m saying the same meddlesome priest rhetoric from the right can be seen with the left. whether it’s implied as no vote on a resolution supporting law enforcement, abstaining, silence, or direct outward comments. Who’s come out and spoken against the Texas attacks?
 
One would hope that when talking about any political violence, it would insinuate “extremist” ideological violence. But according to the polling data previously stated, that might not be the case, would it?





I’m saying the same meddlesome priest rhetoric from the right can be seen with the left. whether it’s implied as no vote on a resolution supporting law enforcement, abstaining, silence, or direct outward comments. Who’s come out and spoken against the Texas attacks?

Yeah, and I'm saying if we expand "support", "democratic violence" and "republican violence" in the ways you want, the bar doesn't tip in your favor.

Immiseration of a good chunk of the electorate (and of the world's poor) via healthcare reform (and aid cuts) is cheered and celebrated explicitly by almost every Federal Republican politician.

Ethically, there isn't much of a difference between someone choosing to shut off your healthcare options and other forms of economic damage (an extremist blowing up your business). One might FEEL worse than the other, but the consequences of these healthcare changes are very predictable and the costs of both can be estimated.

To be clear, I know you personally don't agree with the foreign aid cuts (I don't know your opinion on medicaid cuts) so that at least tells me your don't agree with this form of republican violence.
 
Why don't you go find where Obama found the people he deported and report back to the class. Because I definitely don't recall raids at small businesses or getting people while checking in with an immigration judge.
Typical DJT derangement. When DJT does it = Bad. When Obama was the founding father = Let the man cook.

As no one on the left could/would answer this simple question; which I thought would be well known knowledge, I did a quick google search.

Here are articles from left leaning sources. Just to put everything in perspective, Obama deported 3-5M+ during his tenure. DJT has deported about 150K in his first 100 dys or will hit about 500k for the year. He deported less than 1M his first term.

Salient points
1. Obama did armed home raids and deported families
2. 75% deported had minor (aka speeding tickets) or no criminal records
3. Obama continues to hold the record for deportation
4. 75% was expelled without due process.
5. Obama normalized mass deportation. He was the chief and original found father of mass deportation with particular emphasis on armed raids of law abiding illegals then giving the majority no due process.

So unless you were complaining about Obama, I really don't want to hear it now that DJT essentially is Obama lite. The left new mantra, " the sky is falling, the sky is falling, orange man bad. They sky is falling." is getting old.

Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration | ACLU
Obama years - 75 percent of people removed do not see a judge before being expelled from the U.S.

New Reports Undermine Obama Administration’s Claims About Deportations - American Immigration Council
The principal finding of the Times investigation is a damning indictment of an administration that has claimed repeatedly to be targeting the worst of the worst violent, foreign-born criminals. In reality, according to the Times analysis, “two-thirds of the nearly two million deportation cases involve people who had committed minor infractions, including traffic violations, or had no criminal record at all.”


Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President
Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP). In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century.



https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-family-deportation-raids-217329
The Obama administration confirmed Monday that it began a new wave of arrests of Central American immigrant families over the weekend, moving forward with deportations of mothers and children despite an outcry from immigrant rights groups



Immigrants deported under Obama share stories of terror and rights violations
When President Barack Obama took office in 2009, immigration home raids were commonplace.

In 2005, immigration agents arrived at Melvin’s door. Melvin was reading a book to his son when his wife answered the door. ICE came, arrested, deported.
One Sunday morning, as the Vern family was preparing for church, Vern heard a loud knock at the door. ICe came, arrested, deported
A Dominican citizen who lived in Puerto Rico, Maximo shared an apartment in San Juan with two other men – a Venezuelan and a Puerto Rican. One morning in 2010, they heard banging on the door. ICE came, arrested, deported


Obama Administration’s Crackdown on Immigrants Ignores Due Process and Creates Communities Filled with Fear | AFL-CIO
Now, in an inexcusable escalation and without any transparency, the Department of Homeland Security has begun conducting armed home raids in order to deport vulnerable women and children back to some of the most dangerous countries in the world.


"Obama Built the Structures for Trump": A Terrifying Legacy of Mass Deportation
Obama will go down in history as the US president under whom the highest number of deportations has occurred — more than under all of the presidents in the century before him, combined.

Unzueta, immigration advocate, argued that under Obama, mass deportation has become “normalized,” giving a façade of legality to the process and convincing the public that it is possible to “deport people humanely.”

“The Obama administration has built the structures for Trump. All of the programs that Obama has put in place — the Priority Enforcement Program, the ways immigration enforcement can enter people’s homes, the raids — that infrastructure will be passed on to the next president,” she said.
 
Love to see maga twist and squirm to defend this obviously crooked DOJ protecting pedos. There’s a list…it’s on my desk! There’s no list we’re done investigating!
Hahahaha..... JB had 4 yrs to "Open the gates wide open" and we didn't hear a peep. But now DJT doesn't open it to the world, and now.... I mean now you think its a big deal?
 
No doubt.

Now let’s do one in terms of economic cost.

Wouldn’t hurt to focus on things that happened in like the last 100 years either, lol, but I’m game.
Well, then lets take a look at the economic cost of climate change denial...that will be in the tens to hundreds of billions

Not to mention medicaid, welfare cuts. That cost thousands of lives. USaid cuts? Millions of lives

Covid denials/anti vax? Thats estimated to cost a few hundred thousand lives

Catholic church abuse? Lots of trauma there

Anti immigration stance? That costs billions in economic output

How about slavery in the US? Certainly a conservative ideal especially during the civil war. How much economic damage was caused by that..not to mention decades of systemic racism
 
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Well, then lets take a look at the economic cost of climate change denial...that will be in the tens to hundreds of billions

Not to mention medicaid, welfare cuts. That cost thousands of lives. USaid cuts? Millions of lives

Covid denials/anti vax? Thats estimated to cost a few hundred thousand lives

Catholic church abuse? Lots of trauma there

Anti immigration stance? That costs billions in economic output
Hahahah.... You really lost it. Grasping at straws now..... Great job looking inept. I will raise you 10 zillion dollars..... How about Truman dropping them Bombs?
 
My people. Warms my heart. JD must have gone alone since this is an immigrant owned Michelin starred omakase place and Usha is veg. Usha’s mom is also a big DEI advocate so I wonder how the family dinners go.


NSFW.




 
Typical DJT derangement. When DJT does it = Bad. When Obama was the founding father = Let the man cook.

As no one on the left could/would answer this simple question; which I thought would be well known knowledge, I did a quick google search.

Here are articles from left leaning sources. Just to put everything in perspective, Obama deported 3-5M+ during his tenure. DJT has deported about 150K in his first 100 dys or will hit about 500k for the year. He deported less than 1M his first term.

Salient points
1. Obama did armed home raids and deported families
2. 75% deported had minor (aka speeding tickets) or no criminal records
3. Obama continues to hold the record for deportation
4. 75% was expelled without due process.
5. Obama normalized mass deportation. He was the chief and original found father of mass deportation with particular emphasis on armed raids of law abiding illegals then giving the majority no due process.

So unless you were complaining about Obama, I really don't want to hear it now that DJT essentially is Obama lite. The left new mantra, " the sky is falling, the sky is falling, orange man bad. They sky is falling." is getting old.

Speed Over Fairness: Deportation Under the Obama Administration | ACLU
Obama years - 75 percent of people removed do not see a judge before being expelled from the U.S.

New Reports Undermine Obama Administration’s Claims About Deportations - American Immigration Council
The principal finding of the Times investigation is a damning indictment of an administration that has claimed repeatedly to be targeting the worst of the worst violent, foreign-born criminals. In reality, according to the Times analysis, “two-thirds of the nearly two million deportation cases involve people who had committed minor infractions, including traffic violations, or had no criminal record at all.”


Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President
Between 2009 and 2015 his administration has removed more than 2.5 million people through immigration orders, which doesn’t include the number of people who "self-deported" or were turned away and/or returned to their home country at the border by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP). In fact, they have deported more than the sum of all the presidents of the 20th century.



https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-family-deportation-raids-217329
The Obama administration confirmed Monday that it began a new wave of arrests of Central American immigrant families over the weekend, moving forward with deportations of mothers and children despite an outcry from immigrant rights groups



Immigrants deported under Obama share stories of terror and rights violations
When President Barack Obama took office in 2009, immigration home raids were commonplace.

In 2005, immigration agents arrived at Melvin’s door. Melvin was reading a book to his son when his wife answered the door. ICE came, arrested, deported.
One Sunday morning, as the Vern family was preparing for church, Vern heard a loud knock at the door. ICe came, arrested, deported
A Dominican citizen who lived in Puerto Rico, Maximo shared an apartment in San Juan with two other men – a Venezuelan and a Puerto Rican. One morning in 2010, they heard banging on the door. ICE came, arrested, deported


Obama Administration’s Crackdown on Immigrants Ignores Due Process and Creates Communities Filled with Fear | AFL-CIO
Now, in an inexcusable escalation and without any transparency, the Department of Homeland Security has begun conducting armed home raids in order to deport vulnerable women and children back to some of the most dangerous countries in the world.


"Obama Built the Structures for Trump": A Terrifying Legacy of Mass Deportation
Obama will go down in history as the US president under whom the highest number of deportations has occurred — more than under all of the presidents in the century before him, combined.

Unzueta, immigration advocate, argued that under Obama, mass deportation has become “normalized,” giving a façade of legality to the process and convincing the public that it is possible to “deport people humanely.”

“The Obama administration has built the structures for Trump. All of the programs that Obama has put in place — the Priority Enforcement Program, the ways immigration enforcement can enter people’s homes, the raids — that infrastructure will be passed on to the next president,” she said.
Honestly, I'm kinda surprised you did the homework. A+.

So I stand corrected.

But tell me this, with these articles proving what they do why are we still constantly hearing that Obama was lax on immigration?
 
Hahahaha..... JB had 4 yrs to "Open the gates wide open" and we didn't hear a peep. But now DJT doesn't open it to the world, and now.... I mean now you think its a big deal?

I think DJT is on the list. It’s as simple as that. You can ‘what about Biden’ all day, won’t change it. Prominent Dems were protected too.
 
Yeah, and I'm saying if we expand "support", "democratic violence" and "republican violence" in the ways you want, the bar doesn't tip in your favor.

Immiseration of a good chunk of the electorate (and of the world's poor) via healthcare reform (and aid cuts) is cheered and celebrated explicitly by almost every Federal Republican politician.

Ethically, there isn't much of a difference between someone choosing to shut off your healthcare options and other forms of economic damage (an extremist blowing up your business). One might FEEL worse than the other, but the consequences of these healthcare changes are very predictable and the costs of both can be estimated.

To be clear, I know you personally don't agree with the foreign aid cuts (I don't know your opinion on medicaid cuts) so that at least tells me your don't agree with this form of republican violence.

Well, then lets take a look at the economic cost of climate change denial...that will be in the tens to hundreds of billions

Not to mention medicaid, welfare cuts. That cost thousands of lives. USaid cuts? Millions of lives

Covid denials/anti vax? Thats estimated to cost a few hundred thousand lives

Catholic church abuse? Lots of trauma there

Anti immigration stance? That costs billions in economic output

How about slavery in the US? Certainly a conservative ideal especially during the civil war. How much economic damage was caused by that..not to mention decades of systemic racism


I love your list of tangentially related topics and the giant leaps you have to make to connect them to the right with theoretical numbers and lives attacked to them…

I mean if you really want to play that game let’s go nuclear and talk about abortion violence.

Millions of actual lives lost per year of 100 percent avoidable death. I mean that’s a genocide that rivals the holocaust…

All the reductio aside, the left has a violence problem… period.
 
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I mean if you really want to play that game let’s go nuclear and talk about abortion violence.

Millions of lives per year. I mean that’s a genocide that rivals the holocaust…

Lol, there we go.

I would point out that most sitting Dem Congressmen have done less to directly support abortion than Republicans have done to directly take away Healthcare and cut aid. We could assign some degree of moral culpability per fetus though.

That might get you there. Probably depends on what timeline we're using and if you would credit the improved livelihoods/autonomy of the prospective mothers in your calculation to counter the deaths. Climate change denial and repealing of policies aimed at correcting it, depending on future trends, could still do far more economic damage in addition to increasing catastrophic weather events.

If you're using terms like "democrat violence" and ascribe the economic cost of all BLM protests to it, then these are the sorts of calculations you're doing.
 
f you're using terms like "democrat violence" and ascribe the economic cost of all BLM protests to it, then these are the sorts of calculations you're doing.

Not if the violence (actual violence) is supported by the majority of the party. Which is my argument. Recent polling would at least suggest that. We are (I’m) talking about “by thine own hand” violence. Not policy, we can go on and on forever whose policies are more detrimental.

The left has a violence problem. Period. That is said not in defense of the right, which has their own problems.
 
I love your list of tangentially related topics and the giant leaps you have to make to connect them to the right with theoretical numbers and lives attacked to them…

I mean if you really want to play that game let’s go nuclear and talk about abortion violence.

Millions of actual lives lost per year of 100 percent avoidable death. I mean that’s a genocide that rivals the holocaust…

All the reductio aside, the left has a violence problem… period.

Oh you edited your post.

I wouldn't say USAID cuts and kicking millions off of Medicaid is a "giant leap". It's an explicit policy goal of your elected officials - not tangential at all. You just don't like thinking of it as violence.

Not if the violence (actual violence) is supported by the majority of the party. Which is my argument. Recent polling would at least suggest that. We are (I’m) talking about “by thine own hand” violence. Not policy, we can go on and on forever whose policies are more detrimental.

The left has a violence problem. Period.

Meh. I think your polls are capturing a lot of LARPing, and a poll is not connected at all to "by thine own hand" violence. What?

Actual policy is responsible for far more deaths/disease. You choosing to ignore that is just handwaving away the real ethical problems. "By thine own hand" Republican politicians voted for the OBBB.

"Sure, if we ignore the fact we're taking away health insurance from millions and increasing global HIV spread, then yeah it's really the Left who are the problem."

I'm willing to admit Left leaning citizens have been protesting and rioting more, which is likely a side effect of being out of power more often. (We can point to institutional causes of that to some extent.) I still don't think that that violence is reflective of the Democratic party writ large (your original claim). Like, if the situations were reversed and there was systemic bias favoring big liberal states in the Senate, and House apportionment favored Dems, and the electoral college was decided by popular vote... I have little doubt we would be seeing more MAGA/Conservative "by thine own hand" violence. I assume we can agree that the degree of "by thine own hand" violence is at least somewhat proportional to how well policy preferences are being achieved? It's not like MAGA/Conservatives are opposed to violence in principle more than Dems, it's just they're currently getting everything they want.

Edit: "However, arson, vandalism, and looting that occurred between May 26 and June 8 caused approximately $1–2 billion in insured damages nationally, the highest recorded damage from civil disorder in U.S. history." - I was expecting the violent damage to be substantially more than $1-2 billion. To put this in perspective, the Milwaukee Bucks basketball team is valued at $4.1 billion. We're also talking about "insured damages" so maybe there were uninsured damages that were substantial? In any case, this number seems pretty low in relation to the damages just from the projected medicaid cuts.

 
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Ghislane Maxwell is serving a 20 year sentence for trafficking minors to…..nobody.
Yes. But she likely doesn’t even get charged if Epstein didn’t commit suicide.

Another example of selective prosecution.

She’s been linked to Epstein for years. Why didn’t they arrest both of them at the same time? It was only after he killed himself did they zero in on her.

Another example why Biden had to pardon his family. He knows the prosecutor and govt can go after anyone. With a hint of criminal wrong doings.
 
I wouldn't say USAID cuts and kicking millions off of Medicaid is a "giant leap". It's an explicit policy goal of your elected officials.

Actual policy is responsible for far more deaths/disease. You choosing to ignore that is just handwaving away the real ethical problems. "By thine own hand" Republican politicians voted for the OBBB.

I’m not ignoring it. I’m saying historically it would be hard to quantify and both parties are culpable. Either party has an argument that the other is worse.

It's not like MAGA/Conservatives are opposed to violence in principle more than Dems, it's just they're currently getting everything they want.

Maybe. I’m definitely not stating it won’t change either. However, concerning current attitudes toward political violence, it appears to be more of an issue with the left, and I don’t think not “getting everything they want” is an excuse. If and when the pendulum swings, we can have that argument.

I was expecting the violent damage to be substantially more than $1-2 billion.


Who’s handwaving now?
 
I’m not ignoring it. I’m saying historically it would be hard to quantify and both parties are culpable. Either party has an argument that the other is worse.



Maybe. I’m definitely not stating it won’t change either. However, concerning current attitudes toward political violence, it appears to be more of an issue with the left, and I don’t think not “getting everything they want” is an excuse. If and when the pendulum swings, we can have that argument.




Who’s handwaving now?

Lol. I legitimately thought the damage was going to be higher. Like tens of billions from "the most damaging protest in history", given how much media was covering it. Maybe uninsured losses were actually higher.

I guess my overarching point is that if you're going to single out one side now for economic political violence, and ignore the violence being done by the other side which is emphatically greater, that is a pretty myopic view to take.
 
I’m not ignoring it. I’m saying historically it would be hard to quantify and both parties are culpable. Either party has an argument that the other is worse.



Maybe. I’m definitely not stating it won’t change either. However, concerning current attitudes toward political violence, it appears to be more of an issue with the left, and I don’t think not “getting everything they want” is an excuse. If and when the pendulum swings, we can have that argument.




Who’s handwaving now?
Most problems we face in this great country of ours was originality bills passed by the democrats the past 60 years.

The healthcare Medicare spending is the cause of 20% of the USA overall debt which was passed by LBJ. And immigration crisis is caused by LBJ. The AMT crisis caused by Democrats.

Are republicans to blame? It’s like passing a kid who can’t read through 12th grade and expecting them to succeed.

There is only so much you can do to fix someone’s mess. Ask any successful plastic surgeon friends of yours. Do they fixed other surgeons problems ? Likely not. U less they are desperate for money.
 
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